Can Any Dem/lib Tell Us What Agency The Govt Has Run Efficiently?

[Harry Dresden]

Has anyone ever received a package via email? My mailman delivers many small packages via the U.S. Postal Service - and I really like that.

Social Security is also very efficient - and my checks are electronically direct deposited to my bank each month - and I really like that.

Packages I prefer to get FedEx or UPS most of the time. When a package gets to my city via USPS it is usually 3 to 4 days from being delivered. Conversely, when a package gets to my city via UPS or FedEx it is almost guaranteed to be at my door the next day.

USPS delivers small packages more efficiently.

Not in my experience. It could still be true of course, but even if it is, what makes it so? Is there anything about what makes it efficient in that regard that could not be duplicated and/or improved upon in the private sector if the USPS was not around?

in the 33 years i was in there it has been provin time after time by independent survey companies comparing the 3 that there is not much different in the end result (delivery) by the big 3....they all fuck up but mostly the thing is delivered in the time they said it would....

A lot would change if the USPS disappeared. UPS and FedEx would have to shift their strategies to compensate for the void, other companies might be motivated to step into that area as well. If the USPS is, as the link Lakhota provided seems to suggest, self-funded, I'm not sure how much would be gained from eliminating it though. If tax money is being funneled to it, there is some incentive to cut it.

no tax money involved....hasnt been since like 72....

 

[Harry Dresden]

You think the private sector is more efficient than the government? Well, this coming winter, YOU go out and shovel the snow off the road in front of your house...

...and hope all of your neighbors do the same, in case you plan on going anywhere.

How does that prove government is efficient?

Liberals don't get it. They think because some level of govt shovels their snow or picks up their garbage that means it is being done efficiently. Unless there is a profit motive, no task will ever be done efficiently.

We have private garbage collection, in parts of the city they have city garbage collection. ours is cheaper, always on time, and the contractor is making money.

here in Anaheim they contract out the service.....doesnt seem to be any better....or cheaper.....they come by pick up the shit and leave...just like when the city did it....

Government contracting out a service is not the same as having companies compete on the market to provide that service. That being said, I've never heard of private companies doing a worse job than government run operations. Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing.

3-4 companies submitting bids to the City is competing for that service....is it not?...

 

[bripat9643]

You think the private sector is more efficient than the government? Well, this coming winter, YOU go out and shovel the snow off the road in front of your house...

...and hope all of your neighbors do the same, in case you plan on going anywhere.

How does that prove government is efficient?

Liberals don't get it. They think because some level of govt shovels their snow or picks up their garbage that means it is being done efficiently. Unless there is a profit motive, no task will ever be done efficiently.

We have private garbage collection, in parts of the city they have city garbage collection. ours is cheaper, always on time, and the contractor is making money.

here in Anaheim they contract out the service.....doesnt seem to be any better....or cheaper.....they come by pick up the shit and leave...just like when the city did it....

Government contracting out a service is not the same as having companies compete on the market to provide that service. That being said, I've never heard of private companies doing a worse job than government run operations. Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing.

3-4 companies submitting bids to the City is competing for that service....is it not?...

To a limited extent. Once they get the bid, then there's no more competition. Real competition means competing for each individual consumer. Ford doesn't get a contract from the federal government to supply automobiles to the entire population for a year. It has to compete with dozens of other manufacturers every day for every customer.

 

[bripat9643]

You think the private sector is more efficient than the government? Well, this coming winter, YOU go out and shovel the snow off the road in front of your house...

...and hope all of your neighbors do the same, in case you plan on going anywhere.

How does that prove government is efficient?

Liberals don't get it. They think because some level of govt shovels their snow or picks up their garbage that means it is being done efficiently. Unless there is a profit motive, no task will ever be done efficiently.

We have private garbage collection, in parts of the city they have city garbage collection. ours is cheaper, always on time, and the contractor is making money.

here in Anaheim they contract out the service.....doesnt seem to be any better....or cheaper.....they come by pick up the shit and leave...just like when the city did it....

Government contracting out a service is not the same as having companies compete on the market to provide that service. That being said, I've never heard of private companies doing a worse job than government run operations. Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing.

their not?.....so when Katz,someone who has no practical knowledge of Pot, tells us that because Pot is in your system for a few weeks,that means that you are still high all that time and should not be driving.....im not supposed to believe myself and others, who have smoked the stuff,and know from personal experience that she is full of shit....that Anecdote is not proof that she is full of shit?.....

If you were the only one saying that, no, it's not proof of anything. However, anyone who has smoked pot knows the same thing, so it's not just your personal experience.

 

[Harry Dresden]

How does that prove government is efficient?

Liberals don't get it. They think because some level of govt shovels their snow or picks up their garbage that means it is being done efficiently. Unless there is a profit motive, no task will ever be done efficiently.

We have private garbage collection, in parts of the city they have city garbage collection. ours is cheaper, always on time, and the contractor is making money.

here in Anaheim they contract out the service.....doesnt seem to be any better....or cheaper.....they come by pick up the shit and leave...just like when the city did it....

Government contracting out a service is not the same as having companies compete on the market to provide that service. That being said, I've never heard of private companies doing a worse job than government run operations. Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing.

3-4 companies submitting bids to the City is competing for that service....is it not?...

To a limited extent. Once they get the bid, then there's no more competition. Real competition means competing for each individual consumer. Ford doesn't get a contract from the federal government to supply automobiles to the entire population for a year. It has to compete with dozens of other manufacturers every day for every customer.

Bri i understand what your saying but i think certain functions like trash pick up might be better with one company doing it whether it be private or public.....i agree about cable....that should be wide open....

 

[bripat9643]

Liberals don't get it. They think because some level of govt shovels their snow or picks up their garbage that means it is being done efficiently. Unless there is a profit motive, no task will ever be done efficiently.

We have private garbage collection, in parts of the city they have city garbage collection. ours is cheaper, always on time, and the contractor is making money.

here in Anaheim they contract out the service.....doesnt seem to be any better....or cheaper.....they come by pick up the shit and leave...just like when the city did it....

Government contracting out a service is not the same as having companies compete on the market to provide that service. That being said, I've never heard of private companies doing a worse job than government run operations. Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing.

3-4 companies submitting bids to the City is competing for that service....is it not?...

To a limited extent. Once they get the bid, then there's no more competition. Real competition means competing for each individual consumer. Ford doesn't get a contract from the federal government to supply automobiles to the entire population for a year. It has to compete with dozens of other manufacturers every day for every customer.

Bri i understand what your saying but i think certain functions like trash pick up might be better with one company doing it whether it be private or public.....i agree about cable....that should be wide open....

I see no reason to believe trash pick-up is an exception to the economic laws with respect to monopoly.

 

[Harry Dresden]

How does that prove government is efficient?

Liberals don't get it. They think because some level of govt shovels their snow or picks up their garbage that means it is being done efficiently. Unless there is a profit motive, no task will ever be done efficiently.

We have private garbage collection, in parts of the city they have city garbage collection. ours is cheaper, always on time, and the contractor is making money.

here in Anaheim they contract out the service.....doesnt seem to be any better....or cheaper.....they come by pick up the shit and leave...just like when the city did it....

Government contracting out a service is not the same as having companies compete on the market to provide that service. That being said, I've never heard of private companies doing a worse job than government run operations. Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing.

their not?.....so when Katz,someone who has no practical knowledge of Pot, tells us that because Pot is in your system for a few weeks,that means that you are still high all that time and should not be driving.....im not supposed to believe myself and others, who have smoked the stuff,and know from personal experience that she is full of shit....that Anecdote is not proof that she is full of shit?.....

If you were the only one saying that, no, it's not proof of anything. However, anyone who has smoked pot knows the same thing, so it's not just your personal experience.

there were 2 other anti-pot people in that thread that agreed with her and expounded on it....AND i believe i said there were others besides myself telling them they were full of shit......so let me ask you a question Bri.....the industry you work in....if someone here posted an article about your industry and you said after reading it.....thats not the way it is and said so.....and someone said Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing the article is right......what would your reaction be?......

 

[bripat9643]

Liberals don't get it. They think because some level of govt shovels their snow or picks up their garbage that means it is being done efficiently. Unless there is a profit motive, no task will ever be done efficiently.

We have private garbage collection, in parts of the city they have city garbage collection. ours is cheaper, always on time, and the contractor is making money.

here in Anaheim they contract out the service.....doesnt seem to be any better....or cheaper.....they come by pick up the shit and leave...just like when the city did it....

Government contracting out a service is not the same as having companies compete on the market to provide that service. That being said, I've never heard of private companies doing a worse job than government run operations. Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing.

their not?.....so when Katz,someone who has no practical knowledge of Pot, tells us that because Pot is in your system for a few weeks,that means that you are still high all that time and should not be driving.....im not supposed to believe myself and others, who have smoked the stuff,and know from personal experience that she is full of shit....that Anecdote is not proof that she is full of shit?.....

If you were the only one saying that, no, it's not proof of anything. However, anyone who has smoked pot knows the same thing, so it's not just your personal experience.

there were 2 other anti-pot people in that thread that agreed with her and expounded on it....AND i believe i said there were others besides myself telling them they were full of shit......so let me ask you a question Bri.....the industry you work in....if someone here posted an article about your industry and you said after reading it.....thats not the way it is and said so.....and someone said Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing the article is right......what would your reaction be?......

I might know they are wrong, but that doesn't mean anyone else should believe it. Things like whether you are impaired can be proven empirically. Thousands of people claimed that Leatril cured their cancer, but that isn't considered valid scientific evidence because it's anecdotal.

 

[Harry Dresden]

here in Anaheim they contract out the service.....doesnt seem to be any better....or cheaper.....they come by pick up the shit and leave...just like when the city did it....

Government contracting out a service is not the same as having companies compete on the market to provide that service. That being said, I've never heard of private companies doing a worse job than government run operations. Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing.

3-4 companies submitting bids to the City is competing for that service....is it not?...

To a limited extent. Once they get the bid, then there's no more competition. Real competition means competing for each individual consumer. Ford doesn't get a contract from the federal government to supply automobiles to the entire population for a year. It has to compete with dozens of other manufacturers every day for every customer.

Bri i understand what your saying but i think certain functions like trash pick up might be better with one company doing it whether it be private or public.....i agree about cable....that should be wide open....

I see no reason to believe trash pick-up is an exception to the economic laws with respect to monopoly.

its more for simplicity, with regards to parking on streets and ally ways....everyone knows what day they come....

 

[Harry Dresden]

here in Anaheim they contract out the service.....doesnt seem to be any better....or cheaper.....they come by pick up the shit and leave...just like when the city did it....

Government contracting out a service is not the same as having companies compete on the market to provide that service. That being said, I've never heard of private companies doing a worse job than government run operations. Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing.

their not?.....so when Katz,someone who has no practical knowledge of Pot, tells us that because Pot is in your system for a few weeks,that means that you are still high all that time and should not be driving.....im not supposed to believe myself and others, who have smoked the stuff,and know from personal experience that she is full of shit....that Anecdote is not proof that she is full of shit?.....

If you were the only one saying that, no, it's not proof of anything. However, anyone who has smoked pot knows the same thing, so it's not just your personal experience.

there were 2 other anti-pot people in that thread that agreed with her and expounded on it....AND i believe i said there were others besides myself telling them they were full of shit......so let me ask you a question Bri.....the industry you work in....if someone here posted an article about your industry and you said after reading it.....thats not the way it is and said so.....and someone said Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing the article is right......what would your reaction be?......

I might know they are wrong, but that doesn't mean anyone else should believe it. Things like whether you are impaired can be proven empirically. Thousands of people claimed that Leatril cured their cancer, but that isn't considered valid scientific evidence because it's anecdotal.

so you would not say anything?.... i see this a lot with the PO.....things are put up here that i know are bullshit......and i see all these people going yea thats the PO.....when i know its not....i cant just leave it,i have to say something,especially if it comes to the workers being badmouthed....if its true i will agree....but if it isnt....i got to talk....but hey thats me....

 

[bripat9643]

Government contracting out a service is not the same as having companies compete on the market to provide that service. That being said, I've never heard of private companies doing a worse job than government run operations. Anecdotes are proof of exactly nothing.

3-4 companies submitting bids to the City is competing for that service....is it not?...

To a limited extent. Once they get the bid, then there's no more competition. Real competition means competing for each individual consumer. Ford doesn't get a contract from the federal government to supply automobiles to the entire population for a year. It has to compete with dozens of other manufacturers every day for every customer.

Bri i understand what your saying but i think certain functions like trash pick up might be better with one company doing it whether it be private or public.....i agree about cable....that should be wide open....

I see no reason to believe trash pick-up is an exception to the economic laws with respect to monopoly.

its more for simplicity, with regards to parking on streets and ally ways....everyone knows what day they come....

That problem can easily be solved if each neighbourhood is assigned a trash pickup day regardless of which company provides the service

 

[Redfish]

Has anyone ever received a package via email? My mailman delivers many small packages via the U.S. Postal Service - and I really like that.

Social Security is also very efficient - and my checks are electronically direct deposited to my bank each month - and I really like that.

Yes, the USPS gets the job done. Getting the job done does not mean it is doing it efficiently. Thats the trouble with you libs, you are incapable of rational thinking.

 

[Care4all]

You guys keep ranting about turning all of medicine over to the government. What has the government ever run efficiently? the post office? DOD? Social security? medicare? welfare? border security? the budget?

Why would you want to turn more of our economy over to them?

Let's focus on your thread question of: What has the government ever run efficiently? Can you give an example of a made up scenario of a government department, that you would consider as running efficiently, so I can understand what you mean by efficiently, pretty please?

Basically, what is the definition of efficient in your mind for a government agency?

As far as the Private sector corporations, I have already given you examples of how corporations waste money all the time...lots of money....when it comes to perks given to it's executives and some managers and some employees....
Like letting employees drinking as much as they want when they travel or go to market or go to sales meetings and paying for it, on the share holder's dime....paying for a gym in the corporate office...giving each employee one hour of their working time a day, to go to the gym.....is this really efficient? What if the government did something like that in one of their agencies?

And also, in Retail, 20% of your items, DRIVE 80% of your business...that means 80% of your items to sell, only give you 20% of your daily sales....

Would you call that efficient? Well, it was considered pretty darn good in the corporations that I worked for....to get it right, with 20% of what you bought to sell to the consumer...because that could make the company profitable...just that group of 20% of hot items, could take care of all the mistakes you bought...that 80% that you made mistakes in buying...You had a heck of a year if you could get that 20% of drivers being right, up to 22% of being right!!!

Someone who did not understand the business, could say that the corporations were failing and not efficient and all that jazz....and if this were a government agency performing with those kind of stats, EVERYONE, right and left, would be screaming from the roof tops on how horrible and inefficient the government was....

Me thinks YOU may HAVE NO IDEA how corporations operate or whether they are this "efficient thing" that you imagine government should be, with their different agencies and goals....?

 

[MikeK]

Laugh out loud indeed at that article.

To sum it up: the government is keeping the USPS from operating effectively. Is this supposed to be an argument for why the government SHOULD be running the USPS?

It is a revelation that certain interests within government, those which are corrupted by corporate interests and which are competitive with and hostile toward the USPS, are doing their best to sabotage this venerable American institution.

One of the things they've done is pass a Bill requiring the Postal Service to pay 75 years of projected pension benefits in advance -- which has effectively bankrupted that system. This requirement is unique and affects no other government agency.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

this venerable American institution.

dear, if you think a govt monopoly [USPS]is venerable you must be a communist?

 

[Mathbud1]

Laugh out loud indeed at that article.

To sum it up: the government is keeping the USPS from operating effectively. Is this supposed to be an argument for why the government SHOULD be running the USPS?

It is a revelation that certain interests within government, those which are corrupted by corporate interests and which are competitive with and hostile toward the USPS, are doing their best to sabotage this venerable American institution.

One of the things they've done is pass a Bill requiring the Postal Service to pay 75 years of projected pension benefits in advance -- which has effectively bankrupted that system. This requirement is unique and affects no other government agency.

Still, essentially the argument here is that if only this one part of the government did not exist, the Post Office would be doing fine. The fact remains that that part of the government does exist and is part of the government. To say that the Post Office could be run effectively if only we could erase part of the government, is to say that it cannot be run effectively under the government we actually have. It is all well and good in the theoretical, but does not address the reality.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Laugh out loud indeed at that article.

To sum it up: the government is keeping the USPS from operating effectively. Is this supposed to be an argument for why the government SHOULD be running the USPS?

It is a revelation that certain interests within government, those which are corrupted by corporate interests and which are competitive with and hostile toward the USPS, are doing their best to sabotage this venerable American institution.

One of the things they've done is pass a Bill requiring the Postal Service to pay 75 years of projected pension benefits in advance -- which has effectively bankrupted that system. This requirement is unique and affects no other government agency.

Still, essentially the argument here is that if only this one part of the government did not exist, the Post Office would be doing fine. The fact remains that that part of the government does exist and is part of the government. To say that the Post Office could be run effectively if only we could erase part of the government, is to say that it cannot be run effectively under the government we actually have. It is all well and good in the theoretical, but does not address the reality.

libturds don't know the reality is that soviet govt monopolies dont do well.

 

[Redfish]

You guys keep ranting about turning all of medicine over to the government. What has the government ever run efficiently? the post office? DOD? Social security? medicare? welfare? border security? the budget?

Why would you want to turn more of our economy over to them?

Let's focus on your thread question of: What has the government ever run efficiently? Can you give an example of a made up scenario of a government department, that you would consider as running efficiently, so I can understand what you mean by efficiently, pretty please?

Basically, what is the definition of efficient in your mind for a government agency?

As far as the Private sector corporations, I have already given you examples of how corporations waste money all the time...lots of money....when it comes to perks given to it's executives and some managers and some employees....
Like letting employees drinking as much as they want when they travel or go to market or go to sales meetings and paying for it, on the share holder's dime....paying for a gym in the corporate office...giving each employee one hour of their working time a day, to go to the gym.....is this really efficient? What if the government did something like that in one of their agencies?

And also, in Retail, 20% of your items, DRIVE 80% of your business...that means 80% of your items to sell, only give you 20% of your daily sales....

Would you call that efficient? Well, it was considered pretty darn good in the corporations that I worked for....to get it right, with 20% of what you bought to sell to the consumer...because that could make the company profitable...just that group of 20% of hot items, could take care of all the mistakes you bought...that 80% that you made mistakes in buying...You had a heck of a year if you could get that 20% of drivers being right, up to 22% of being right!!!

Someone who did not understand the business, could say that the corporations were failing and not efficient and all that jazz....and if this were a government agency performing with those kind of stats, EVERYONE, right and left, would be screaming from the roof tops on how horrible and inefficient the government was....

Me thinks YOU may HAVE NO IDEA how corporations operate or whether they are this "efficient thing" that you imagine government should be, with their different agencies and goals....?

Since I started this thread I have defined "efficient" several times and have given examples of efficient operations. If you are going to troll, read the earlier posts of the thread before making a dumb comment.

And, for the record, I know exactly how corporations operate. If they are not efficient they go out of business.

 

[Redfish]

Laugh out loud indeed at that article.

To sum it up: the government is keeping the USPS from operating effectively. Is this supposed to be an argument for why the government SHOULD be running the USPS?

It is a revelation that certain interests within government, those which are corrupted by corporate interests and which are competitive with and hostile toward the USPS, are doing their best to sabotage this venerable American institution.

One of the things they've done is pass a Bill requiring the Postal Service to pay 75 years of projected pension benefits in advance -- which has effectively bankrupted that system. This requirement is unique and affects no other government agency.

please cite that bill and give us the vote by party.

 

[Care4all]

You guys keep ranting about turning all of medicine over to the government. What has the government ever run efficiently? the post office? DOD? Social security? medicare? welfare? border security? the budget?

Why would you want to turn more of our economy over to them?

Let's focus on your thread question of: What has the government ever run efficiently? Can you give an example of a made up scenario of a government department, that you would consider as running efficiently, so I can understand what you mean by efficiently, pretty please?

Basically, what is the definition of efficient in your mind for a government agency?

As far as the Private sector corporations, I have already given you examples of how corporations waste money all the time...lots of money....when it comes to perks given to it's executives and some managers and some employees....
Like letting employees drinking as much as they want when they travel or go to market or go to sales meetings and paying for it, on the share holder's dime....paying for a gym in the corporate office...giving each employee one hour of their working time a day, to go to the gym.....is this really efficient? What if the government did something like that in one of their agencies?

And also, in Retail, 20% of your items, DRIVE 80% of your business...that means 80% of your items to sell, only give you 20% of your daily sales....

Would you call that efficient? Well, it was considered pretty darn good in the corporations that I worked for....to get it right, with 20% of what you bought to sell to the consumer...because that could make the company profitable...just that group of 20% of hot items, could take care of all the mistakes you bought...that 80% that you made mistakes in buying...You had a heck of a year if you could get that 20% of drivers being right, up to 22% of being right!!!

Someone who did not understand the business, could say that the corporations were failing and not efficient and all that jazz....and if this were a government agency performing with those kind of stats, EVERYONE, right and left, would be screaming from the roof tops on how horrible and inefficient the government was....

Me thinks YOU may HAVE NO IDEA how corporations operate or whether they are this "efficient thing" that you imagine government should be, with their different agencies and goals....?

Since I started this thread I have defined "efficient" several times and have given examples of efficient operations. If you are going to troll, read the earlier posts of the thread before making a dumb comment.

And, for the record, I know exactly how corporations operate. If they are not efficient they go out of business.

Sorry, 700 posts are too many to go through!!!!