CDZ Can America function like this?

[TNHarley]

If you disagree with the premise, please pipe up, I'd like to hear that too.

It seems to me that national politics have essentially decayed into an ongoing contest of smears, innuendo, accusation, condemnation and conspiracy theories. Not to mention, outright lies. And obviously, if the Democrats gain back control, that certainly is not going to change.

Yes, it has "always been like this". But in the age of the internet, instant news, and fake news, the noise is like nothing ever seen.

So I guess I have two questions:

1. Can the government function properly, can it move the country forward, when so little attention is paid to issues? And when debate of the issues amounts to little more than simplistic bumper sticker sloganeering, wedged in between smears and attacks?

2. Do we not think that many of our Best & Brightest are going to stay away from politics because of this trend?
.

What do you propose, Mac, to get us on a better track? Continually harping on how bad our system is doesn't actually fix it, does it?
I'd love to see Super PACS outlawed. I'd love to see all campaigners allotted a specific amount of money and they can't spend more than that. It will never happen, though, because the exact same people who depend on all that money are the ones who would have to vote in those rules, aren't they?

In terms of process, I make the same proposal to change DC regularly, my apologies that you have clearly not seen it:

1. Short Term Limits
2. Publicly-funded elections
3. Balanced Budget Amendment

Unfortunately, that does not address the behaviors I listed. I don't have answers for that. I'll try not to continually harp on them in the future.
.

term limits? Why? So we can replace one jallopy with another?
No term limits arent the problem. The voters are.
11% satisfaction rate 95% re-election rate

Agree--except what are our choices?

I usually have 5 or 6 choices on my state ballots.

 

[Peach]

If you disagree with the premise, please pipe up, I'd like to hear that too.

It seems to me that national politics have essentially decayed into an ongoing contest of smears, innuendo, accusation, condemnation and conspiracy theories. Not to mention, outright lies. And obviously, if the Democrats gain back control, that certainly is not going to change.

Yes, it has "always been like this". But in the age of the internet, instant news, and fake news, the noise is like nothing ever seen.

So I guess I have two questions:

1. Can the government function properly, can it move the country forward, when so little attention is paid to issues? And when debate of the issues amounts to little more than simplistic bumper sticker sloganeering, wedged in between smears and attacks?

2. Do we not think that many of our Best & Brightest are going to stay away from politics because of this trend?
.

What do you propose, Mac, to get us on a better track? Continually harping on how bad our system is doesn't actually fix it, does it?
I'd love to see Super PACS outlawed. I'd love to see all campaigners allotted a specific amount of money and they can't spend more than that. It will never happen, though, because the exact same people who depend on all that money are the ones who would have to vote in those rules, aren't they?

It cant just happen with one person.
Im with you on the spending. I would prefer all federal campaigns be paid for by the tax payers with a small set amount. No need to spend a million dollars on nothing more than saying your opponent wants to run over children with their vehicles.

Not Constitutional at this time. I do not like typing the words, but a part of your liberty is deciding where you will spend available resources. (Northam/Gillespie helped me see the division, as have wild stories about GHWB, on---------.)

Sure it is. All we need is an amendment.
Thats all we ever need despite 75% of the fed govt being unconstitutional.

"The Constitution is a living document". Yes, Amend but...........(That is why I typed "at this time". )

Ideally, yes.

 

[OldLady]

In terms of process, I make the same proposal to change DC regularly, my apologies that you have clearly not seen it:

1. Short Term Limits
2. Publicly-funded elections
3. Balanced Budget Amendment

Unfortunately, that does not address the behaviors I listed. I don't have answers for that. I'll try not to continually harp on them in the future.
.

term limits? Why? So we can replace one jallopy with another?
No term limits arent the problem. The voters are.
11% satisfaction rate 95% re-election rate

It's easier to change systems than humans.
.

So we will replace one jallopy with another... Doesnt sound like much of a solution.. Sounds like a lazy band-aid..
Do you work in Washington? lol

Well, we can get serious and work to change things, or just keep them the way they are.

Personally, I don't see the rapidly-decaying status quo as a smart option.
.

Better than continuing the same failed ideas and radicalism over and over IMO
I would rather work on the people than the system. The system is fine. They let it get abused.

It's really hard to get people involved, even nowadays, with the media saying that OODLES of people are now aware of politics as never before. Not the ones I see, they're not. Half the waitresses at the local diner would honestly say "Roy who?" if I mentioned Moore. I try to get my students to at least watch the news or get on a news feed for half an hour a day. They come in every time having no clue what is happening out there. None. I'm sure most don't even know who our Senators are, let alone how they vote.
Not sure how we do that. People have lives and hate politicians and they don't spend their time and attention on them.

 

[OldLady]

If you disagree with the premise, please pipe up, I'd like to hear that too.

It seems to me that national politics have essentially decayed into an ongoing contest of smears, innuendo, accusation, condemnation and conspiracy theories. Not to mention, outright lies. And obviously, if the Democrats gain back control, that certainly is not going to change.

Yes, it has "always been like this". But in the age of the internet, instant news, and fake news, the noise is like nothing ever seen.

So I guess I have two questions:

1. Can the government function properly, can it move the country forward, when so little attention is paid to issues? And when debate of the issues amounts to little more than simplistic bumper sticker sloganeering, wedged in between smears and attacks?

2. Do we not think that many of our Best & Brightest are going to stay away from politics because of this trend?
.

I think we are screwed

Our government does not function and I see no way of fixing what is broken

Both sides are too entrenched and the media/internet viciously attacks anyone who tries to compromise with the other side

Fake news used to be funny...now too many people believe it and it has become an effective political tool. As has claiming legitimate stories to be fake

Fake news used to be funny...now too many people believe it and it has become an effective political tool. As has claiming legitimate stories to be fake
This frightens me more than any amount of partisanship. IMO, it is the one thing that could destroy us.

Show me 1 person that gets consistently duped by fake news, and I'll show you 5 that say "I can't believe people fall for fake news all of the time."

It's no more harmful than old wives' tales..or worse, the time when information barely traveled AT ALL. Sometimes, people believe stupid shit. They always will, as a conglomerate - - but on an individual basis, each person is on their own journey.

As long as speech remains free, the way to mitigate phony speech is to promote factual speech. That potential being there, at all, is why we are totally fine - and will be.

I do hope you're right. The way our political right is embracing the "fake news" gambit is very troubling, though. But I commend your optimism.

 

[G.T.]

I cannot wait until Nations are not a thing - but in the mean-time the right idea is to focus on your own communities and perhaps their advancement....but even advancement isn't necessary, as long as it's a happy community.

Human kind will continue to advance and achieve as a whole, with or without our 1st or 3rd world Governments. A lack of focus by our Voters is not a sign of National decay, it's a sign they're busy keeping up with and contributing to an ever advancing technology and consumer-based world. Once you interfere with and/or interrupt the process of human advancement, the folks will respond. Once they're not ready to do that, they don't deserve the freedom to advance in the 1st place.

The progress of humanity right now is amazing - and we've also become less violent per ca pita as a result. Folks don't respond to good news. Our life expectancy continues to grow - capitalizing on your personal skill-set is as easy as its ever been, and our technological resources are basically Alien-advanced, compared to our predecessors. A computer, with all available human information ever recorded, is more common in a household than electricity used to be.

But still - I can see how some might say we're in a decline I mean, they haven't perfected the 3d printed limb yet and it still takes a little while to get a Rover to Europa. Plus an ambulance response time if you get a boo-boo on your stubbed toe might be over 3 minutes, which is completely unacceptable IMO.

 

[BlackSand]

It's really hard to get people involved, even nowadays, with the media saying that OODLES of people are now aware of politics as never before. Not the ones I see, they're not. Half the waitresses at the local diner would honestly say "Roy who?" if I mentioned Moore. I try to get my students to at least watch the news or get on a news feed for half an hour a day. They come in every time having no clue what is happening out there. None. I'm sure most don't even know who our Senators are, let alone how they vote.
Not sure how we do that. People have lives and hate politicians and they don't spend their time and attention on them.

Instead of instructing them to watch the news ... Perhaps you should ask them what they can do to help someone else for an hour.

Perhaps they can tutor a young man in math so he can keep his grades up providing him with a better foundation.
Maybe enough to stay on the football team giving him something to do with his time ... Something that teaches him skills he will use the rest of his life.
Skills like effort, teamwork ... The ability to exist within a unit of people you are not required to like but must work with to accomplish a goal.

When do you stop looking for ways to accomplish things beyond your control ... And start doing the things you can do?

.

 

[OldLady]

It's really hard to get people involved, even nowadays, with the media saying that OODLES of people are now aware of politics as never before. Not the ones I see, they're not. Half the waitresses at the local diner would honestly say "Roy who?" if I mentioned Moore. I try to get my students to at least watch the news or get on a news feed for half an hour a day. They come in every time having no clue what is happening out there. None. I'm sure most don't even know who our Senators are, let alone how they vote.
Not sure how we do that. People have lives and hate politicians and they don't spend their time and attention on them.

Instead of instructing them to watch the news ... Perhaps you should ask them what they can do to help someone else for an hour.

Perhaps they can tutor a young man in math so he can keep his grades up providing him with a better foundation.
Maybe enough to stay on the football team giving him something to do with his time ... Something that teaches him skills he will use the rest of his life.
Skills like effort, teamwork ... The ability to exist within a unit of people you are not required to like but must work with to accomplish a goal.

When do you stop looking for ways to accomplish things beyond your control ... And start doing the things you can do?

.

Most of my students are adults. Some are young adults, but none of them are in school. I'm not sure it is "beyond my control" to let students know that their situations are impacted by creatures in D.C. and in Augusta. Creatures who impact everything from how much money gets grabbed from their paycheck before they ever see it to what size bill they will receive when they get a burst appendix. If only a small minority of people care who makes our laws and what those laws are, I guess we may as well quit now because it's out of our control if it isn't happening in our literal backyard.
Is that what you're saying?

 

[rightwinger]

If you disagree with the premise, please pipe up, I'd like to hear that too.

It seems to me that national politics have essentially decayed into an ongoing contest of smears, innuendo, accusation, condemnation and conspiracy theories. Not to mention, outright lies. And obviously, if the Democrats gain back control, that certainly is not going to change.

Yes, it has "always been like this". But in the age of the internet, instant news, and fake news, the noise is like nothing ever seen.

So I guess I have two questions:

1. Can the government function properly, can it move the country forward, when so little attention is paid to issues? And when debate of the issues amounts to little more than simplistic bumper sticker sloganeering, wedged in between smears and attacks?

2. Do we not think that many of our Best & Brightest are going to stay away from politics because of this trend?
.

What do you propose, Mac, to get us on a better track? Continually harping on how bad our system is doesn't actually fix it, does it?
I'd love to see Super PACS outlawed. I'd love to see all campaigners allotted a specific amount of money and they can't spend more than that. It will never happen, though, because the exact same people who depend on all that money are the ones who would have to vote in those rules, aren't they?

It cant just happen with one person.
Im with you on the spending. I would prefer all federal campaigns be paid for by the tax payers with a small set amount. No need to spend a million dollars on nothing more than saying your opponent wants to run over children with their vehicles.

Not Constitutional at this time. I do not like typing the words, but a part of your liberty is deciding where you will spend available resources. (Northam/Gillespie helped me see the division, as have wild stories about GHWB, on---------.)

Sure it is. All we need is an amendment.
Thats all we ever need despite 75% of the fed govt being unconstitutional.

"The Constitution is a living document". Yes, Amend but...........(That is why I typed "at this time". )

Ideally, yes.

Our government is incapable of passing a simple budget

An amendment to the Constitution is unachievable

 

[Peach]

What do you propose, Mac, to get us on a better track? Continually harping on how bad our system is doesn't actually fix it, does it?
I'd love to see Super PACS outlawed. I'd love to see all campaigners allotted a specific amount of money and they can't spend more than that. It will never happen, though, because the exact same people who depend on all that money are the ones who would have to vote in those rules, aren't they?

It cant just happen with one person.
Im with you on the spending. I would prefer all federal campaigns be paid for by the tax payers with a small set amount. No need to spend a million dollars on nothing more than saying your opponent wants to run over children with their vehicles.

Not Constitutional at this time. I do not like typing the words, but a part of your liberty is deciding where you will spend available resources. (Northam/Gillespie helped me see the division, as have wild stories about GHWB, on---------.)

Sure it is. All we need is an amendment.
Thats all we ever need despite 75% of the fed govt being unconstitutional.

"The Constitution is a living document". Yes, Amend but...........(That is why I typed "at this time". )

Ideally, yes.

Our government is incapable of passing a simple budget

An amendment to the Constitution is unachievable

We have done so in the past, when the existing divisions were set aside.

 

[BlackSand]

Most of my students are adults. Some are young adults, but none of them are in school. I'm not sure it is "beyond my control" to let students know that their situations are impacted by creatures in D.C. and in Augusta. Creatures who impact everything from how much money gets grabbed from their paycheck before they ever see it to what size bill they will receive when they get a burst appendix. If only a small minority of people care who makes our laws and what those laws are, I guess we may as well quit now because it's out of our control if it isn't happening in our literal backyard.
Is that what you're saying?

It was an example ... Do you require an exact example to meet your individual requirements (edit: there is no age requirement on the tutor to start with)?
If your answer is to teach people to look towards a failing and corrupt government for solutions to anything ... You aren't doing them any favors.

I am not suggesting you should quit ... I am suggesting it might be better to try something else.

.

 

[OldLady]

Most of my students are adults. Some are young adults, but none of them are in school. I'm not sure it is "beyond my control" to let students know that their situations are impacted by creatures in D.C. and in Augusta. Creatures who impact everything from how much money gets grabbed from their paycheck before they ever see it to what size bill they will receive when they get a burst appendix. If only a small minority of people care who makes our laws and what those laws are, I guess we may as well quit now because it's out of our control if it isn't happening in our literal backyard.
Is that what you're saying?

It was an example ... Do you require an exact example to meet your individual requirements (edit: there is no age requirement on the tutor to start with)?
If your answer is to teach people to look towards a failing and corrupt government for solutions to anything ... You aren't doing them any favors.

I am not suggesting you should quit ... I am suggesting it might be better to try something else.

.

I'll take that as a positive suggestion. I don't agree with you though that the answer to a failing and corrupt government is to (continue to) ignore it.
Grass roots community organizing is probably the best solution, I agree, since it is the only way to get good people headed up the ladder to serve at higher levels and that takes some time.

 

[Peach]

Most of my students are adults. Some are young adults, but none of them are in school. I'm not sure it is "beyond my control" to let students know that their situations are impacted by creatures in D.C. and in Augusta. Creatures who impact everything from how much money gets grabbed from their paycheck before they ever see it to what size bill they will receive when they get a burst appendix. If only a small minority of people care who makes our laws and what those laws are, I guess we may as well quit now because it's out of our control if it isn't happening in our literal backyard.
Is that what you're saying?

It was an example ... Do you require an exact example to meet your individual requirements (edit: there is no age requirement on the tutor to start with)?
If your answer is to teach people to look towards a failing and corrupt government for solutions to anything ... You aren't doing them any favors.

I am not suggesting you should quit ... I am suggesting it might be better to try something else.

.

I'll take that as a positive suggestion. I don't agree with you though that the answer to a failing and corrupt government is to (continue to) ignore it.
Grass roots community organizing is probably the best solution, I agree, since it is the only way to get good people headed up the ladder to serve at higher levels and that takes some time.

I agree, time is required as adjustments begin. (I never accepted expecting the young to be kept on the straight and narrow was left/right/center, etc. just life.)

 

[PredFan]

If you disagree with the premise, please pipe up, I'd like to hear that too.

It seems to me that national politics have essentially decayed into an ongoing contest of smears, innuendo, accusation, condemnation and conspiracy theories. Not to mention, outright lies. And obviously, if the Democrats gain back control, that certainly is not going to change.

Yes, it has "always been like this". But in the age of the internet, instant news, and fake news, the noise is like nothing ever seen.

So I guess I have two questions:

1. Can the government function properly, can it move the country forward, when so little attention is paid to issues? And when debate of the issues amounts to little more than simplistic bumper sticker sloganeering, wedged in between smears and attacks?

2. Do we not think that many of our Best & Brightest are going to stay away from politics because of this trend?
.

1. The government functions too much already. Slowing it down would be a good thing.

2. Our best and brightest haven’t gone into politics for decades.

 

[BlackSand]

I'll take that as a positive suggestion. I don't agree with you though that the answer to a failing and corrupt government is to (continue to) ignore it.
Grass roots community organizing is probably the best solution, I agree, since it is the only way to get good people headed up the ladder to serve at higher levels and that takes some time.

Your (or anyone's) agreement isn't required for me to do what I need to do to achieve my goals or help others ... That is the flaw in government controlled systems.

It does take time, effort and sacrifice ... But more importantly, it requires the person to accept responsibility for their ambitions and desires.
To allow the government to write hot checks in order to accomplish what they have a long standing track record of failing at ... In order for the individual to feel like they have accomplished something ... Is certainly not a sustainable solution.

.

 

[OldLady]

I'll take that as a positive suggestion. I don't agree with you though that the answer to a failing and corrupt government is to (continue to) ignore it.
Grass roots community organizing is probably the best solution, I agree, since it is the only way to get good people headed up the ladder to serve at higher levels and that takes some time.

Your (or anyone's) agreement isn't required for me to do what I need to do to achieve my goals or help others ... That is the flaw in government controlled systems.

It does take time, effort and sacrifice ... But more importantly, it requires the person to accept responsibility for their ambitions and desires.
To allow the government to write hot checks in order to accomplish what they have a long standing track record of failing at ... In order for the individual to feel like they have accomplished something ... Is certainly not a sustainable solution.

.

Are you an anarchist?

 

[BlackSand]

Are you an anarchist?

No ... I do believe in smaller more localized government though.
I believe government should perform certain tasks ... Basic security, basic infrastructure and protection of our freedoms.

I don't believe the government should ever support anything that leads to personal gain ... Whether it would be business or private citizen.
As an example ... It should be okay for the government to build a road that helps everyone move around better (general welfare) ...
But not write someone a check because they are breathing (individual welfare).

.

 

[Mac1958]

If you disagree with the premise, please pipe up, I'd like to hear that too.

It seems to me that national politics have essentially decayed into an ongoing contest of smears, innuendo, accusation, condemnation and conspiracy theories. Not to mention, outright lies. And obviously, if the Democrats gain back control, that certainly is not going to change.

Yes, it has "always been like this". But in the age of the internet, instant news, and fake news, the noise is like nothing ever seen.

So I guess I have two questions:

1. Can the government function properly, can it move the country forward, when so little attention is paid to issues? And when debate of the issues amounts to little more than simplistic bumper sticker sloganeering, wedged in between smears and attacks?

2. Do we not think that many of our Best & Brightest are going to stay away from politics because of this trend?
.

1. The government functions too much already. Slowing it down would be a good thing.

2. Our best and brightest haven’t gone into politics for decades.

So, safe to assume you're happy with the way things are?
.

 

[PredFan]

If you disagree with the premise, please pipe up, I'd like to hear that too.

It seems to me that national politics have essentially decayed into an ongoing contest of smears, innuendo, accusation, condemnation and conspiracy theories. Not to mention, outright lies. And obviously, if the Democrats gain back control, that certainly is not going to change.

Yes, it has "always been like this". But in the age of the internet, instant news, and fake news, the noise is like nothing ever seen.

So I guess I have two questions:

1. Can the government function properly, can it move the country forward, when so little attention is paid to issues? And when debate of the issues amounts to little more than simplistic bumper sticker sloganeering, wedged in between smears and attacks?

2. Do we not think that many of our Best & Brightest are going to stay away from politics because of this trend?
.

1. The government functions too much already. Slowing it down would be a good thing.

2. Our best and brightest haven’t gone into politics for decades.

So, safe to assume you're happy with the way things are?
.

Well....no. I’d like to see the GOP join Trump and let the left go cry in a corner, but it isn’t the battle between the two that I want to see end. I want the GOP to grow a spine and join Trump. But barring that, yes.

 

[Peach]

Impeachment resting on attenuated claims, hate and opinion isn't the solution. For once, party "leaders" (Pelosi, Hoyer) were correct, but into the drama we go.

 

[MarathonMike]

I disagree with the statement "It has always been like this". I have never seen the level of anger so high in one group of voters which includes the Media and entertainment. There was never ONE SINGLE DAY where Liberals gave Donald J Trump a chance. Not one. They were marching in protests and lining up for Impeachment even before he took office. That has never happened in American politics.