Britain Should Not Lower Standards For Blacks

[tigerbob]

So, nothing blacks achieve during the age of "special treatment" is valid? Does that theory work the same for whites under the British peerage system? Is not peerage, "welfare and special treatment" for white Brits?

No.

Why isn't it?

Because you don't have to be white to be a peer.

Baroness Howells

Lord Constantine

Baroness Amos

 

[Salt Jones]

No.

Why isn't it?

Because you don't have to be white to be a peer.

Baroness Howells

Lord Constantine

Baroness Amos

3 out of how many since 1707? Do we want to include the Baronage system in that total as well or were there no blacks in England during the 11th century?

Are white women the benefactors of "special treatment?/Affirmative Action in England the way they are in America?

 

[tigerbob]

Why isn't it?

Because you don't have to be white to be a peer.

Baroness Howells

Lord Constantine

Baroness Amos

3 out of how many since 1707? Do we want to include the Baronage system in that total as well or were their no blacks in England during the 11th century?

I didn't say there were just 3. I posted pictures of 3 because you seemed to imply that black people couldn't be ennobled and I wanted to show that that was incorrect. I'm sorry that trying to answer your question has upset you so much.

At the risk of upsetting you further, here's another one (Lord John Taylor).

If you'd like me to google another one I can do so, but don't you think you might like to research this a bit more thoroughly yourself. Then you won't look so silly next time.

As to your other questions, there were almost no black people in Britain until the 1950s, so going back to 1707 is a bit silly.

Going back to 1100 is fucking retarded.

Oh, what the hell, here's another one for free.

 

[tigerbob]

Why isn't it?

Because you don't have to be white to be a peer.

Baroness Howells

Lord Constantine

Baroness Amos

3 out of how many since 1707? Do we want to include the Baronage system in that total as well or were there no blacks in England during the 11th century?

Are white women the benefactors of "special treatment?/Affirmative Action in England the way they are in America?

Oh, you've edited and added another sentence.

Erm, I've no idea. It's an rather odd question. I didn't know that white women were the benefactors of Affirmative Action in America.

Did you really mean benefactors? Not beneficiaries?

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Because you don't have to be white to be a peer.

Baroness Howells

Lord Constantine

Baroness Amos

3 out of how many since 1707? Do we want to include the Baronage system in that total as well or were their no blacks in England during the 11th century?

I didn't say there were just 3. I posted pictures of 3 because you seemed to imply that black people couldn't be ennobled and I wanted to show that that was incorrect. I'm sorry that trying to answer your question has upset you so much.

At the risk of upsetting you further, here's another one (Lord John Taylor).

If you'd like me to google another one I can do so, but don't you think you might like to research this a bit more thoroughly yourself. Then you won't look so silly next time.

As to your other questions, there were almost no black people in Britain until the 1950s, so going back to 1707 is a bit silly.

Going back to 1100 is fucking retarded.

Oh, what the hell, here's another one for free.

Oooh, that's going to leave a mark.

 

[tigerbob]

3 out of how many since 1707? Do we want to include the Baronage system in that total as well or were their no blacks in England during the 11th century?

I didn't say there were just 3. I posted pictures of 3 because you seemed to imply that black people couldn't be ennobled and I wanted to show that that was incorrect. I'm sorry that trying to answer your question has upset you so much.

At the risk of upsetting you further, here's another one (Lord John Taylor).

If you'd like me to google another one I can do so, but don't you think you might like to research this a bit more thoroughly yourself. Then you won't look so silly next time.

As to your other questions, there were almost no black people in Britain until the 1950s, so going back to 1707 is a bit silly.

Going back to 1100 is fucking retarded.

Oh, what the hell, here's another one for free.

Oooh, that's going to leave a mark.

I feel a bit bad now. I seem to have frightened him off. I didn't mean to be rude, it just sort of....happened.

But seriously, blacks can't be Lords. Fuck's sake.

 

[Salt Jones]

I didn't say there were just 3. I posted pictures of 3 because you seemed to imply that black people couldn't be ennobled and I wanted to show that that was incorrect. I'm sorry that trying to answer your question has upset you so much.

At the risk of upsetting you further, here's another one (Lord John Taylor).

If you'd like me to google another one I can do so, but don't you think you might like to research this a bit more thoroughly yourself. Then you won't look so silly next time.

As to your other questions, there were almost no black people in Britain until the 1950s, so going back to 1707 is a bit silly.

Going back to 1100 is fucking retarded.

Oh, what the hell, here's another one for free.

Oooh, that's going to leave a mark.

I feel a bit bad now. I seem to have frightened him off. I didn't mean to be rude, it just sort of....happened.

But seriously, blacks can't be Lords. Fuck's sake.

You could never frighten me off. Yes I should have said beneficiaries. My point is that the class system brought on by peerage has given "special treatment".

 

[tigerbob]

Oooh, that's going to leave a mark.

I feel a bit bad now. I seem to have frightened him off. I didn't mean to be rude, it just sort of....happened.

But seriously, blacks can't be Lords. Fuck's sake.

You could never frighten me off. Yes I should have said beneficiaries. My point is that the class system brought on by peerage has given "special treatment".

Well, if that was what you wanted to say, just say it. As it happens, I agree with that last observation to a degree, so you could have saved us both a lot of trouble by just saying it plainly at the outset and leaving out all the continuing black vs white silliness.

 

[Colin]

"If the British lower their standards for hiring professors..."

They have standards?

Mostly a bunch of pompus socialist morons, in my opinion.

Lol! You sound just like a pompous moron!

Ahh...we have a socialist on the hook.

So what is your most successfull plan...besides wishing that Santa Claus is real?

Amazing! You seem to know things about me that I never knew myself! Or is it just that you are an ignorant wanker who knows fuck all about life outside his little parochial bubble? You need to get a new crystal ball. The one you have doesn't appear to work!

 

[alexa]

I am aware that some of Cyril Burt's research into the IQ of twins from 40 years ago was erroneous - which is what the article you link to says - but so are today's psychometric researchers who exclude that data from their conclusion that IQ differences by adulthood are 80% heritable. The research shows that even when raised in affluent families and sent to the best schools blacks fare less well academically than impoverished whites, so its not a question of effort.

I assumed you were saying they did less well that whites who also attended top schools. All I can say is I do not believe you and am beginning to wonder whether you are a white nationalist.

Burkes work was falsified. IQ is basically a test of learned activity. While we may have slight variations in potential with most people they are negligible. Environment plays an enormous part as well as the different traits people are born with and even those are influenced by nurturing. Indeed I seem to remember that the only thing which can be shown to be totally genetic is temperament. A study done over 20 years found that it was possible to see what the adult temperament of a person was as soon as they were born but even there environment played a large part. People born with difficult temperaments whose parents reasoned with them and understood their difficulties, grew up managing to deal with their fieriness whereas those with parents who responded temper tantrum with temper tantrum found themselves in trouble.

Role models do play a part in people achieving which is where the idea of affirmative action does come in...and then of course there can be prejudice but there is no genetic reason why black people cannot achieve as well as anyone else.... some clearly do...

Alexa, if you wan't to know more about the evidence for heredity and racial IQ don't take my word for it read The Bell Curve. I understand you have your personal beliefs, but at least be willing to challenge yours assumptions and conront the evidence.

It is something I have studied considerably, not just looking at Wiki. I studied both during my Social Science degree and during my teachers training and what you are inferring is simply not true. There is no significant racial genetic component to IQ.

I refer you to my previous posts on this board as proof I do not support racism.

Nevertheless you are supporting a racist view on intelligence. You present some statistics supposed to belong to people in some countries and then believe they have a genetic component without taking the trouble to study properly and discover that a) what is measured in IQ activity is learned experience and b) there are a multitude of things which create the intelligence which an individual has ranging from expectations, interest, opportunities, role models, practice, home environment and so on. A recent study found that in the UK the biggest component on the outcome of a child's education achievements was the Mother's or main caregivers own education.

Your OP is stating that there is no reason for affirmative action for the reason that Black people are genetically of poorer intelligence and you provide Wiki to prove this.

In your previous post you said you believed standards in United Kingdom colleges should be raised not lowered, so I assume you are against affirmative action.

When I was doing my degree my Social Policy head of department was very for affirmative action to get more women into higher positions in University. Her point, she did not care if a few people got in who were not quite as highly qualified, she wanted women to see women in such positions so that they would aspire to them. I don't think affirmative action would be accepted at the present time but in order to achieve children do need psychological role models. Some work will need to be done to make sure black people are not overlooked when their qualifications are the same.

When I did my teachers training, girls fell back in their education at puberty. Girls were still considered to be less capable than boys particularly in maths and sciences......because of a simply thing -teachers expected this. Filming of classes showed that teachers gave far more attention and eye contact with boys than girls, even teachers who were not aware of it. Because they expected boys to achieve better they unconsciously concentrated on them. Changes in teachers training changed the outcome of girls education.

The thing which contributes most to achievement is practice. It is reckoned that 80% of people could achieve a degree. People simply need to learn what is required. A small number who get the highest degrees also have creativity.

So no, this is not just my opinion, it is what I can remember of study within a 4 year period plus what I have learned since, not a wiki article.

If you want to look at why blacks are not achieving in the UK then you need to look at more than a controversial IQ report.

You know what, when I was young people were saying women had a lower IQ because they had smaller brains.

A person's IQ depends on a multitude of things and mainline research is pretty clear that on potential there is nothing to speak of as far as race is concerned.

You need to look at environment. In the UK it would be good to look at the number of blacks brought up in gang neighbourhood. Something which started in the '80's. You need to look at the opportunities given to them, the aspirations given to them, the prejudice still around

That's what a team at the Institute of Education have been researching, and their findings are released on Monday. Looking at African Caribbean families in particular, they have confirmed that there is a black "middle class"; that they work very hard to get the best for their children; but they also discovered that social status and relative wealth do not protect black people. "Racism is a reality in the lives of black middle-class families," states the report, The Educational Strategies of the Black Middle Classes. And research team member Dr Nicola Rollock, says: "Being black and middle class is fundamentally different to being white and middle class."

To be a black professional means every day having to assume you may be judged according to some negative stereotype; how can you prove to the next person you meet that you're not some street thug; or that your background is so broken and scarred that you'll never conform to the workplace culture?

Being black and middle class doesn't mean you face less prejudice | Joseph Harker | Comment is free | The Guardian

Just like when I was young a woman had to perform twice as well as a man to get that good job.

You quite simply cannot produce controversial hypothesis on IQ and claim that blacks have inferior IQ's. I have been listening to such controversial studies and seeing them disproved all my life.

Yes, there are individual differences, genetics plays a part in who people are but to take that and to then try and suggest that because some people living in a third world country score low on a Western IQ test, this is evidence of low IQ among black people shows at least a total lack of understanding of the subject.

I said the UK should not lower it's standards. People from working class backgrounds are also not achieving. Like I said earlier social mobility is all but dead here. So yes, we need to improve our standards by making where you are born does not ruin your chances for life. We need to make sure social mobility starts moving again so that everyone has the opportunity to achieve, regardless of race, religion, gender or social status and that is a problem in the UK today certainly as far as social mobility and hence equality of opportunity is concerned.

 

[California Girl]

Do you consider Jim Crow/government sponsored institutionalized racism a "color quota"?

Was your "X standard" developed on a level playing field? What year was the USA's "X standard" established?

The topic is actually about Britain, so the Jim Crow argument is moot.

However, if the standard is that attained by British PhDs, then that is the standard attainable. If blacks cannot attain that standard, that is not the system at fault. It is that blacks need to improve their education.

Blacks are perfectly capable of attaining that standard, so why are they not? I would suggest that it is decades of government pandering to blacks instead of encouraging black kids to work harder at school. Welfare and special treatment have done blacks far more harm than good. This road to hell was paved with good intentions, but it still led to hell. So the question now is... do blacks have the courage to step off that path and take the harder road to achievement? I think they do. They are no different to whites.

So, nothing blacks achieve during the age of "special treatment" is valid? Does that theory work the same for whites under the British peerage system? Is not peerage, "welfare and special treatment" for white Brits?

I didn't say it wasn't valid. I just don't think it helped blacks.... all 'Affirmative Action' achieves is to lower the standard and treat people as 'special'. That won't solve the problem. The problem can only be permanently solved by encouraging black kids to aspire to achieve, to push them as individuals to reach for the stars... and, when they fail, (because everyone fails occasionally), teach them to get back up and try again.... not blame some mythical bogeyman. People are people, no matter what their skin color. Affirmative Action and treating any minority as 'different' or in need of special circumstances only deepens the divides and gives racists a platform for their ridiculous ideas.

 

[California Girl]

The majority of the black population in the UK is, I would assume, based in the inner city areas. Educational standards there are always poor, and they turn out just as many uneducated white children as they do black. That said, children from as Asian background seem to do well compared to their peers from that background.

A lot of it has to do with social breakdown and failed parenting. Every big city has problems of a similar nature to some degree.

I agree that there are huge societal issues that need to be factored in and certainly are vital. I absolutely do not believe that blacks cannot attain the educational standard required so there are some hard questions to be addressed.

I watched Michelle Obama's visit to an inner city school in London. She took a group of students to Oxford University to inspire them. While I think it was a great idea, and we absolutely should do this.... Having attended one of your 'Redbricks', I have to wonder how comfortable these kids would be in that environment. But they absolutely should aspire to it.

I wonder how long the inspiration lasted. For most, it will quite possibly be recollections shared with friends along the lines of "there was all these people of black robes man, I though I was in Arabia. They looked fuckin' well wierd".

Still, if one of them was truly inspired to reach higher then it was not a wasted day. On the other hand, what's that old adage about success? 10% inspiration, 90% perspiration?

Michelle started working with kids from that school back in 2008. And since her first visit, they've had more young minority girls getting into University. I personally think that is a really good thing. I have very little time for Michelle's politics, but I absolutely respect anyone - regardless of their politics - supporting young minorities and getting them to see a world outside the one they are surrounded by.

 

[California Girl]

Oooh, that's going to leave a mark.

I feel a bit bad now. I seem to have frightened him off. I didn't mean to be rude, it just sort of....happened.

But seriously, blacks can't be Lords. Fuck's sake.

You could never frighten me off. Yes I should have said beneficiaries. My point is that the class system brought on by peerage has given "special treatment".

The class system was not brought on by peerage. Britain has always been a class based society. As has much of Europe. One of the reasons why that original gang of freedom seekers- our forefathers - left those shores in search of their own place.

American was not founded on class. Class is a word used by politicians to divide Americans and keep us focused on our differences, rather than what unites us. People come to America because they want freedom from government control. That's what we were set up to be.

 

[Ravi]

Only 50 out of 14,385 United Kingdom professors are black. They are alleging racism, and are demanding quotas to get more tenureships. However, currently it is illegal in Britain to hire someone on the basis of their skin color, so implementing affirmative action would require that parliament change the current law to allow preferential treatment for black academics.

If the British lower their standards for hiring professors it would be a disaster for the university system. 50 may not seem like a large number but the statistics tell the real story. The majority of England's 1.7 million blacks originate from Sub-Saharan Africa and the Carribbean, where the average IQ for blacks is around 70. If we assume that around a third of England's blacks average about 85 IQ because of mixed race parentage with whites, then the overall average for blacks in would be about 80. Compare that with whites who average 100 and hold 94% of the professorships. If we lowball the estimate of a 120 IQ as the entry point to be a able to become a tenured professor at the university level, a bell curve calculation reveals that only .4% or 6800 blacks have the requisite base line IQ. Of those, many are too young or old for the work force, and of the remaining many would be pursuing careers in business, medicine, engineering and other lucrative paths, not academia. 50 is a pretty significant number when blacks in the 120 range are a needle in a haystack, so there is no reason to conclude that the schools are practicing racism.

Affirmative action has compromised academic standards in America to the detriment of all students black and white, the British should not make the same mistake and should refuse to give in to the pressure to compromise their high quality of education. If blacks truly feel they have suffered discrimination then let them sue and prove it in court.

It's sad that there are people who support taking skin color into account. Enlightened people realize that our priorities should strictly be looking at peoples' qualifications.

14,000 British professors

I had no idea. My first thought was that possibly it was to do with the new class system we have in the UK and that insufficient blacks have parents with sufficient money to get them to the best private schools, Universities and various networking necessities...and that may be part of it.

I don't know if your statistics are correct and where you got them from. My daughter never took an IQ test when she was a child so how anyone would know the IQ's of British children I am not sure.

However with IQ many things need to be taken into account. For a start everyone should know that if you want to bump up your IQ score do plenty of tests - it does not depend on innate intelligence so much as learned activity. I know a recent study found that Japanese and Chinese US students had the highest IQ - why? Not surprisingly because they were brought up to work hard all the time while your ordinary American was taught all work and no play was not good for them.

Are you for aware that research which suggested IQ was hereditary was falsified?

The intelligence fraud

The UK has had virtually no social mobility since Thatcherism and that is something which really needs to be addressed. It would be quite wrong for people not to point out where there is a discrepancy. You are right we should not lower our standards. We should raise them and make sure all people are empowered with equality of opportunity.

My kids never had their IQ tested either. This is a great point you make. Where do they get the kids for these comparative IQ tests? The only way the test would be valid would be to sample kids that were raised with the same level of parental, community and scholastic involvement.

If you are going to test middle class children raised in the suburbs vs. lower class children raised in the projects, of course their is going to be a huge discrepancy.

 

[California Girl]

Only 50 out of 14,385 United Kingdom professors are black. They are alleging racism, and are demanding quotas to get more tenureships. However, currently it is illegal in Britain to hire someone on the basis of their skin color, so implementing affirmative action would require that parliament change the current law to allow preferential treatment for black academics.

If the British lower their standards for hiring professors it would be a disaster for the university system. 50 may not seem like a large number but the statistics tell the real story. The majority of England's 1.7 million blacks originate from Sub-Saharan Africa and the Carribbean, where the average IQ for blacks is around 70. If we assume that around a third of England's blacks average about 85 IQ because of mixed race parentage with whites, then the overall average for blacks in would be about 80. Compare that with whites who average 100 and hold 94% of the professorships. If we lowball the estimate of a 120 IQ as the entry point to be a able to become a tenured professor at the university level, a bell curve calculation reveals that only .4% or 6800 blacks have the requisite base line IQ. Of those, many are too young or old for the work force, and of the remaining many would be pursuing careers in business, medicine, engineering and other lucrative paths, not academia. 50 is a pretty significant number when blacks in the 120 range are a needle in a haystack, so there is no reason to conclude that the schools are practicing racism.

Affirmative action has compromised academic standards in America to the detriment of all students black and white, the British should not make the same mistake and should refuse to give in to the pressure to compromise their high quality of education. If blacks truly feel they have suffered discrimination then let them sue and prove it in court.

It's sad that there are people who support taking skin color into account. Enlightened people realize that our priorities should strictly be looking at peoples' qualifications.

14,000 British professors

I had no idea. My first thought was that possibly it was to do with the new class system we have in the UK and that insufficient blacks have parents with sufficient money to get them to the best private schools, Universities and various networking necessities...and that may be part of it.

I don't know if your statistics are correct and where you got them from. My daughter never took an IQ test when she was a child so how anyone would know the IQ's of British children I am not sure.

However with IQ many things need to be taken into account. For a start everyone should know that if you want to bump up your IQ score do plenty of tests - it does not depend on innate intelligence so much as learned activity. I know a recent study found that Japanese and Chinese US students had the highest IQ - why? Not surprisingly because they were brought up to work hard all the time while your ordinary American was taught all work and no play was not good for them.

Are you for aware that research which suggested IQ was hereditary was falsified?

The intelligence fraud

The UK has had virtually no social mobility since Thatcherism and that is something which really needs to be addressed. It would be quite wrong for people not to point out where there is a discrepancy. You are right we should not lower our standards. We should raise them and make sure all people are empowered with equality of opportunity.

My kids never had their IQ tested either. This is a great point you make. Where do they get the kids for these comparative IQ tests? The only way the test would be valid would be to sample kids that were raised with the same level of parental, community and scholastic involvement.

If you are going to test middle class children raised in the suburbs vs. lower class children raised in the projects, of course their is going to be a huge discrepancy.

They undertake research to establish it. They're not measuring it as a 'middle class vs lower class'.... they have longitudinal studies going on - have done for decades - and, as part of those studies, they measure the IQ of kids across the spectrum of 'class' etc.

The UK recently launched a new study - 'Understanding Society' which is being funded for 20 years - it will probably receive further funding after that.... they do the same types of study in most western countries. Those studies tend to link up with each other to compare results and work together to develop future strategies across a range of social issues.

 

[Ravi]

The topic is actually about Britain, so the Jim Crow argument is moot.

However, if the standard is that attained by British PhDs, then that is the standard attainable. If blacks cannot attain that standard, that is not the system at fault. It is that blacks need to improve their education.

Blacks are perfectly capable of attaining that standard, so why are they not? I would suggest that it is decades of government pandering to blacks instead of encouraging black kids to work harder at school. Welfare and special treatment have done blacks far more harm than good. This road to hell was paved with good intentions, but it still led to hell. So the question now is... do blacks have the courage to step off that path and take the harder road to achievement? I think they do. They are no different to whites.

So, nothing blacks achieve during the age of "special treatment" is valid? Does that theory work the same for whites under the British peerage system? Is not peerage, "welfare and special treatment" for white Brits?

It could be. It all depends what peerage is. What the hell is peerage? Perhaps someone who knows an awful lot about Great Britain/England/United Kingdom/The British Isles could explain.

What a dope you are. And you want us to think you are more intelligent that blacks?

 

[Ravi]

I had no idea. My first thought was that possibly it was to do with the new class system we have in the UK and that insufficient blacks have parents with sufficient money to get them to the best private schools, Universities and various networking necessities...and that may be part of it.

I don't know if your statistics are correct and where you got them from. My daughter never took an IQ test when she was a child so how anyone would know the IQ's of British children I am not sure.

However with IQ many things need to be taken into account. For a start everyone should know that if you want to bump up your IQ score do plenty of tests - it does not depend on innate intelligence so much as learned activity. I know a recent study found that Japanese and Chinese US students had the highest IQ - why? Not surprisingly because they were brought up to work hard all the time while your ordinary American was taught all work and no play was not good for them.

Are you for aware that research which suggested IQ was hereditary was falsified?

The intelligence fraud

The UK has had virtually no social mobility since Thatcherism and that is something which really needs to be addressed. It would be quite wrong for people not to point out where there is a discrepancy. You are right we should not lower our standards. We should raise them and make sure all people are empowered with equality of opportunity.

My kids never had their IQ tested either. This is a great point you make. Where do they get the kids for these comparative IQ tests? The only way the test would be valid would be to sample kids that were raised with the same level of parental, community and scholastic involvement.

If you are going to test middle class children raised in the suburbs vs. lower class children raised in the projects, of course their is going to be a huge discrepancy.

They undertake research to establish it. They're not measuring it as a 'middle class vs lower class'.... they have longitudinal studies going on - have done for decades - and, as part of those studies, they measure the IQ of kids across the spectrum of 'class' etc.

The UK recently launched a new study - 'Understanding Society' which is being funded for 20 years - it will probably receive further funding after that.... they do the same types of study in most western countries. Those studies tend to link up with each other to compare results and work together to develop future strategies across a range of social issues.

You aren't answering my question. They measure kids "across the spectrum of class" and yet most black children would fall into the lower class part of the spectrum.

So of course their "peers" will out perform them.

 

[California Girl]

So, nothing blacks achieve during the age of "special treatment" is valid? Does that theory work the same for whites under the British peerage system? Is not peerage, "welfare and special treatment" for white Brits?

It could be. It all depends what peerage is. What the hell is peerage? Perhaps someone who knows an awful lot about Great Britain/England/United Kingdom/The British Isles could explain.

What a dope you are. And you want us to think you are more intelligent that blacks?

For some (slightly strange) reason, some people seem to think that, because generally blacks (as a race, not as individuals) test lower on IQ tests, they take that to mean that all whites are smarter than all blacks. This is clearly not accurate.

I would like to see a study of the IQ of racists measured against the IQ of minorities (blacks, hispanics, gays, females). I would put good money on the outcome showing that racists are at the bottom of the intellectual scale. The anecdotal evidence on this board suggests this outcome.

 

[California Girl]

My kids never had their IQ tested either. This is a great point you make. Where do they get the kids for these comparative IQ tests? The only way the test would be valid would be to sample kids that were raised with the same level of parental, community and scholastic involvement.

If you are going to test middle class children raised in the suburbs vs. lower class children raised in the projects, of course their is going to be a huge discrepancy.

They undertake research to establish it. They're not measuring it as a 'middle class vs lower class'.... they have longitudinal studies going on - have done for decades - and, as part of those studies, they measure the IQ of kids across the spectrum of 'class' etc.

The UK recently launched a new study - 'Understanding Society' which is being funded for 20 years - it will probably receive further funding after that.... they do the same types of study in most western countries. Those studies tend to link up with each other to compare results and work together to develop future strategies across a range of social issues.

You aren't answering my question. They measure kids "across the spectrum of class" and yet most black children would fall into the lower class part of the spectrum.

So of course their "peers" will out perform them.

You'd think that, wouldn't you? I would too. But the results of those studies do not show that outcome. When I have time, I'll try and dig out some results for ya but... generally... blacks do not show lower IQs than any other group.... suggesting that the catalyst isn't necessarily race, it may well be poverty, or societal influences. Or, more likely, a variety of factors.

 

[alexa]

re bell curve

When the New Republic devoted almost an entire issue (10/31/94) to a debate with the authors of The Bell Curve, editor Andrew Sullivan justified the decision by writing, "The notion that there might be resilient ethnic differences in intelligence is not, we believe, an inherently racist belief."

In fact, the idea that some races are inherently inferior to others is the definition of racism. What the New Republic was saying--along with other media outlets that prominently and respectfully considered the thesis of Charles Murray and the late Richard Herrnstein's book--is that racism is a respectable intellectual position, and has a legitimate place in the national debate on race.

-snip-

Nearly all the research that Murray and Herrnstein relied on for their central claims about race and IQ was funded by the Pioneer Fund, described by the London Sunday Telegraph (3/12/89) as a "neo-Nazi organization closely integrated with the far right in American politics." The fund's mission is to promote eugenics, a philosophy that maintains that "genetically unfit" individuals or races are a threat to society.

Racism Resurgent