Boys..... & the Rainbow Party

[5stringJeff]

I was going to leave this topic alone, but I was never long on common sense. So at the risk of upsetting both you and Joz, I'm going to try to tiptoe through the minefield.

If I post sumthin that's shot thru with bad grammer, bad spelinnk, and dam crude langwige, you would probably assume that either I'm an illiterate halfwit at worst or an extremely poor typist at best. Either way, your impression of me is based on my public persona.

Likewise, the way people dress and act in public sends a signal about the type of person they are and the type of behavior in which they engage. Now I'm not saying that's RIGHT, I'm just saying that's a FACT of the human condition. We form first impressions based on visual assessment and how we process that assessment into our own personal frames of reference.

There are two ways a woman can get my attention. One way is to give me whiplash when I snap my head around fast enough to get a good look. Cleavage, short tight skirt, skimpy shorts, teeny bikini all work. Yes, that may be chauvinistic, but I will not attempt to reverse millenia of male propensities all by myself. I have neither the will nor the inclination to even make the attempt. So ladies, if you don't want to see me drool, keep your boobies covered.

The second way a woman gets my attention is to sit down and talk to her. If we can keep an interesting conversation going, if she is her own person, if she has her own perspectives and opinions, then she becomes far more beautiful to me than the honey parading down the center aisle of the local mall with her shorts riding into the crack of her butt.

Frankly, women who feel the need to put themselves on display tend to make me uncomfortable. I have no rational explantion for that, so don't even ask.

Merlin, you have written what I was trying to say all along.

 

[Merlin1047]

Merlin, you have written what I was trying to say all along.

Boy you're quick! I added a little edit after you quoted. Hope it manages to convey how I feel about some aspects of women's dress.

 

[IControlThePast]

How profound.

What did you mean..introduce yourself to everyone that way? What way?

She seemed to imply that whores were less than human beings, and people who acted as such deserve to be treated as such.

With a statement along the lines of "don't make a visual impression of me, judge me by my personality. It isn't right for you to judge me by my appearance."

 

[GotZoom]

She seemed to imply that whores were less than human beings, and people who acted as such deserve to be treated as such.

With a statement along the lines of "don't make a visual impression of me, judge me by my personality. It isn't right for you to judge me by my appearance."

Ok...I'm confused. I didn't read anything in the post you quoted to indicate that she implied that whores were less than human, and that people who acted as such deserved to be treated as such.

I believe she has been saying you SHOULDN'T people by the way they were dressed.

Enlighten me please.

 

[IControlThePast]

"I'll continue to treat them like *people* until they act like something different,"
meaning if they don't act like people (we're talking about sluts here, so "them" is sluts, and acting like "something different" would in this context be acting like a slut) she will treat them differently, but that she won't treat them as less than a human unless they prove through actions. Sluts (by action, not just appearance) don't deserve to be treated as any less or differently than a normal human.

 

[manu1959]

how do blind people treat women dressed "sluty"?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Sluts (by action, not just appearance) don't deserve to be treated as any less or differently than a normal human.

Yet they should EXPECT poor treatment? That's what you said before or someone said it.

 

[dilloduck]

Yet they should EXPECT poor treatment? That's what you said before or someone said it.

They certainly shouldn't be shocked or offended when it happens. As Merlin pointed out so well, realilty is that assumptions will be made by the way you look. For example, long after my days of drug experimentation I kept my long hair and tail. Dopers would continually ask me if I had any drugs or wanted any. I knew FULL WELL why I was the target of thier inquiries. If you walk down the street dressed like a clown and someone asks you do do something funny it should come as no surprise and the person who asked you for the funny behavior should be congratulated for thier good observation skills.
Too walk down the street dressed like a clown and then get pissed when someone says "hey clown" is some mighty narcissistic thinking.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

They certainly shouldn't be shocked or offended when it happens. As Merlin pointed out so well, realilty is that assumptions will be made by the way you look. For example, long after my days of drug experimentation I kept my long hair and tail. Dopers would continually ask me if I had any drugs or wanted any. I knew FULL WELL why I was the target of thier inquiries. If you walk down the street dressed like a clown and someone asks you do do something funny it should come as no surprise and the person who asked you for the funny behavior should be congratulated for thier good observation skills.
Too walk down the street dressed like a clown and then get pissed when someone says "hey clown" is some mighty narcissistic thinking.

SO THE CLOWN SHOULD JUST EXPECT TO BE RAPED? THAT"S WRONG!

 

[GotZoom]

Ladies and Gentleman...one of the longest sentences you will ever see:

"I'll continue to treat them like *people* until they act like something different,"
meaning if they don't act like people (we're talking about sluts here, so "them" is sluts, and acting like "something different" would in this context be acting like a slut) she will treat them differently, but that she won't treat them as less than a human unless they prove through actions. Sluts (by action, not just appearance) don't deserve to be treated as any less or differently than a normal human.

I think that is what we have been saying all along. Don't treat people by appearance, treat them by actions.

So you have changed your mind now?

 

[IControlThePast]

Ladies and Gentleman...one of the longest sentences you will ever see:



I think that is what we have been saying all along. Don't treat people by appearance, treat them by actions.

So you have changed your mind now?

Southern people write in long sentences like Faulkner .

Slults should be treated as human beings even if they are sluts by actions. Just because they are a slut doesn't mean you can treat them any worse. No, I still think most people form an opinion based on physical appearance and mannerisms.

Yet they should EXPECT poor treatment? That's what you said before or someone said it.

That's because people will treat them poorly. Do they deserve it? No. Should people treat them poorly, even based on actions? No. But that's what happens in the real world.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

That's because people will treat them poorly. Do they deserve it? No. Should people treat them poorly, even based on actions? No. But that's what happens in the real world.

yeah. blame the victim.

 

[no1tovote4]

yeah. blame the victim.

Victim? I thought we were talking about sluts. It seems more like people would be judging by choices made, not by victim status.

I expect people to judge me by the choices I make. I wear cowboy boots, people will think about me one way because of that. I wear my wedding ring, people will assume that I am married. What you wear gives people a message which you are looking to portray to the rest of the world, one about the choices one makes. While I would never be personally rude to a person who makes different choices, it is likely you choose friends with the same values and the same interests.

If I meet a guy dressed in "Super-Rapper" clothes it is unlikely we will have many interests in common. Am I wrong for judging him on the message he sent by the clothes he wears? I didn't judge him poorly, I simply made some observations just as he would with me. He sees a cowboy hat and boots is he likely to think that I have much in common with him?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

No one expects to be raped. And no one gets raped becuse of how they look. I said before if this were the case then no woman need fear except those women who exposed themselves, willingly. And that's not how things work. Granted, I'm sure this has happened but it is not the norm. And you know that.

What do i know?

 

[no1tovote4]

Now, you''ve made this personal. HOW were you going to upset me, when I tho't this is what I've been saying?

People look at others and they quickly form an opinion. A man in an expensive suit, in an expensive car, well groomed? Must have money, be well bred. What about the movie 'Dirty Rotten Scoundrels'? I
t's all about presentation. I'm sure we hope that someone will take the time to get to know the real me but sometimes that just doesn't happen.

As a bartender, I must be VERY careful. That puts an opinion is some men's minds alone. But I don't dress the part of alot of bartenders. I don't wear old clothes (& yes I've ruined many). But I don't dress with my boobs out, either. I am neat, well dressed, clean, manicured. If you are there for a "show", then you've come to the wrong place; and people quickly find that out. No woman has ever had to worry about her husband/boyfriend not paying attention to what she's saying because he's looking down my shirt. And yes, I'm treated differently.

People look at how others dress and read the "message" that they put forward for the rest of the world to read. You carefully adjust your message so that you are not sending the message that you are dressing slutty to get better tips, this IMO is a good thing. I would be more comfortable at such a bar, with such a bartender. Others go to another bar because they want to "look", let them.

The assumption that we cannot judge a person by the message they choose to send by their dress seems odd to me. This is one of the ways we use to communicate with the rest of the world, a deliberate message that often can tell a person about the interests of another and is one of the largest types of communication that we have. How you dress is as important as what you say in communication and is one of the first things that you learn in one of the "Habits of Successful People" type courses.

Now, that being stated, it is only one form of communication and like any form of communication it has its pitfalls and inaccuracies. People can dress and act differently than they are for a purpose, either nefarious or admirable. It is true that one cannot judge a person entirely simply by their clothes, but one can certainly read the message that one is attempting to put forward by their clothing.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Victim? I thought we were talking about sluts. It seems more like people would be judging by choices made, not by victim status.

I expect people to judge me by the choices I make. I wear cowboy boots, people will think about me one way because of that. I wear my wedding ring, people will assume that I am married. What you wear gives people a message which you are looking to portray to the rest of the world, one about the choices one makes. While I would never be personally rude to a person who makes different choices, it is likely you choose friends with the same values and the same interests.

If I meet a guy dressed in "Super-Rapper" clothes it is unlikely we will have many interests in common. Am I wrong for judging him on the message he sent by the clothes he wears? I didn't judge him poorly, I simply made some observations just as he would with me. He sees a cowboy hat and boots is he likely to think that I have much in common with him?

But if he is beat up for wearing that stuff, should he internalize the crime and feel like it's even partially his fault? Bullshit. No one's attire in any way justifies violence against them.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Slutty does not get you better tips. Slutty gets you disrespect. How can I be taken seriously if I look like I'd let any man jump me? First, I'm mostly dealing with men. Then under the inflluence of alcohol. The woman behind the bar can become "just another whore" (unpaid) quite quickly. I've had this problem VERY FEW times. This is not to say that I dress like a house frau. You can most definately tell I'm female.

But I've worked with women who purposely show their lacy bras, tell customers that they aren't wearing underwear, show their boobs for tips. Sure the men like that, but I hear what they say. I'll opt for respect.......anytime.

When are their shifts again?

 

[Merlin1047]

Now, you''ve made this personal. HOW were you going to upset me, when I tho't this is what I've been saying?

One of the hazards of posting on a board is that one's writings are not necessarily interpreted by the reader in the manner intended by the writer. Lacking the input from normal conversational tools like inflection, body english and facial expression, the written word is often an inadequate tool.

I've seen too many people get upset because they derived meaning from a post which was not intended by the author. So, not wanting to create a misconception, I put in that caveat. That, and because I'm a chicken.

 

[IControlThePast]

But if he is beat up for wearing that stuff, should he internalize the crime and feel like it's even partially his fault? Bullshit. No one's attire in any way justifies violence against them.

If you wear a uniform of the Bloods gang, even though you're not part of them, and you get shot by the Crips, you can complain it's not your fault, that is if you're not dead. It doesn't justify it, but it obviously isn't the smartest move by you. If you wore a "Gay and Proud" shirt and started protesting at a KKK rally, no it's not your fault what the KKK do to you, but it will be done to you and you could have prevented it if you used some common sense about the way the world works. Don't expect people not to do something because it's wrong or unjustified. People do wrong or unjustified things every day. These analogies are not for rape, but being treated like the person how they would treat someone who is what your clothes would indicate you are.

 

[GotZoom]

If you wear a uniform of the Bloods gang, even though you're not part of them, and you get shot by the Crips, you can complain it's not your fault, that is if you're not dead. It doesn't justify it, but it obviously isn't the smartest move by you. If you wore a "Gay and Proud" shirt and started protesting at a KKK rally, no it's not your fault what the KKK do to you, but it will be done to you and you could have prevented it if you used some common sense about the way the world works. Don't expect people not to do something because it's wrong or unjustified. People do wrong or unjustified things every day. These analogies are not for rape, but being treated like the person how they would treat someone who is what your clothes would indicate you are.

I promise you that if I wore red one day, there isn't a single Crip in the world who would think that I am a Blood.