"Black" Names

[Andylusion]

Facts, and your opinion, are statistically not matching up.

I've read two different research papers, both suggesting that there is a statistical difference in hiring patterns, and promotional patterns, between those with more common American names, and those who don't have common American names.

Now that isn't to say that you can not overcome those biases. You absolutely can. But nevertheless, having a goofy un-american name, does in fact put you at a disadvantage to those who have American names, OR.. those who choose to have an American nick name that they go by. Again, Weichun, had no problem because she went by "Jessica" as her name.

You people need to stop living in your fantasy world, where because it is publicly acceptable, that there are no consequences. There are consequences, no matter how 'acceptable' it is in public.

Just because no one goes up to a guy covered head to foot in tattoos and beats them, doesn't mean that if a guy covered head to foot in tattoos can walk into a bank and expect to get job.

And no, of course they are not going to turn down someone because "We don't hire people with blue hair, and tattoos and piercings". Instead it's "We've decided to go a different direction to fill this position." or "You are just not what we're looking for", or any of the other methods for not hiring someone they don't want.

Regardless, the facts are clear. If you have a goofy name, or act in a counter-cultural fashion, you are less likely to get hired and promoted.

That's the reality, no matter what your opinion is on who we have "evolved" as a society. The only thing that has evolved is that people are far more clever about how they hide their preferences.

And by the way, that will never change. It's idiotic to think you'll ever reach a point where anything goes, and there is never a consequence to bucking the culture.

Where can one find this approved list of American names?

And is BARON a name on that list?

There is no 'approved' list of names. It's culture. If you try and make yourself part of the culture, you'll quickly figure out the social norms.

That said, I doubt that people don't know what is normalized and what isn't.

But here's an idea, go to the elite private schools were successful people send their kids, and see what names are common.

If you want to be successful, make someone who is successful your role model.

 

[Andylusion]

Doesn't matter if it is your job or not.

That's not the point.

You can do whatever you want to do. Just understand there is going to some consequences for choices made. Just like the white girl that made choices that effected her future, so to do all people.

If you don't blend in, there are consequences to that.

Again, does not matter if "it's your job" to do so or not. You are free to make your own choices. Just like your boss is free to make his choice on who to promote, and who not to promote. And often, I would even say 100%, is based on the choices you make to blend in, or not to.

You have complete control on how you live your life.

The problem is, you seem to fail to realize that everyone else also has complete control on how they live their life.

If I don't want someone that has purple hair, working as a manager in my company, and you want to dye your hair purple.....


Well... that's your choice... and this is mine.... and that's going to be bad for you. Not my problem. I have just as much right to determine who I promote, as you do on what color you dye your hair.

That's life dude.

You need to stop whining about other people using the freedoms that you use. There are consequences to actions. An adult realizes this, and adjusts for it.

I want you to state it. It's black people's job to blend in to white society, right?

Say it coward.

It's all people's job who want to be successful in Ameirca, to blend in with American society. As I have said numerous times, and I think even in this thread, this is true of all people. Even white people.

You take some white kid, who refuses to blend in with society, and they won't do well. I've seen it first hand. In fact, I think I even said this story before in this thread....

We had a girl that came in, beautiful blonde hair, nice, dressed really nice, and she started getting promoted. She was lead tech, then lead over the lab, and then she was promoted to PA, and then she got promoted to Engineering.

Then, she made some choices. She cut her hair off, and dyed it black. She got some piercings in her nose and so on, and started wearing all black clothes.

They won't promote her now. She can't even make a lateral move to another department. She started applying for jobs, and no one will hire her.

Why? Because she is now bucking the culture.

It doesn't matter where you came from, or what your background is.... if you buck the culture, you are not going to do as well.

This is true everywhere in the world. If I go to Uganda, and buck their culture, I will do poorly. The Coptic Christian in Egypt have been highly marginalized... not because they are hated... they actually are not hated in Egypt, but they buck the culture. The culture is Islamic. They are Christian and so they are marginalized.

This is true everywhere in the world.

So you can either choose one of three options.

1. You can be like the Coptic Christians in Egypt, where they simply accept it. They understand that they will be marginalized, and it's part of being a Coptic Christian in Egypt. The simply accept that there will be some hindrances, and work hard to overcome them.

2. You can choose to blend in with the culture, and start doing better. Every single successful black man I know, has done the same as every successful man.... they blend in. That is how you are successful.

3. Or You can scream and cry about racism, and claim things should be different.... and they will never be different... so you'll just be an angry man until you die... and you'll just die. It's sad. I pity people who choose to live this way. But you'll never change the culture, to mold it around what you want. It'll never happen. So you'll just end up a really sad human being shaking his fist at the universe.

 

[Andylusion]

White people call their sons Dick

I always thought that was a terrible name. Of course it's pretty much non-used now.

Interestingly, the origins of the name is German, for like Triumphant Ruler, or Dominate Ruler or something.

How it got to mean what it does now, is curious.

 

[miketx]

I have written in this space previously that much of Black "inequality" can be reasonably attributed to voluntary behaviors by individual Blacks - mainly bastardy, school drop-out tendency, and petty criminality - and I have recently come upon another one, also a total mystery to me.

It is "common knowledge" in the Black community that having a "Black" name can often lead to, for example, employment applications being discarded, and other similar forms of discrimination. Indeed, I have read some first-person accounts of white people having Black-sounding names (e.g., "Jamal") and experiencing such discrimination "unfairly"(?).

And yet, the trend toward bizarre Christian names among Blacks seems to be increasing as time goes by.

Malik. LaShonda. Trayvon. LaToya. Names with mis-placed capital letters, and apostrophes. I pity the inner-city Kindergarten teacher who must address these children in school for the first time, trying to figure out how to pronounce some of these bizarre names, and to do so without laughing. I have occasionally thought that mothers invent them in the hope that one day the child will be a mega-super-star of one form or another who can be known simply by that first name. Shaquille. OJ. Michael. Et cetera. (Oops. Has anybody used that one?)

But seriously, is this not an utterly stupid thing to do? Why would you - even potentially - saddle your kid with a name that will label him/her as Black, sight unseen, for the rest of his or her life, knowing that it is likely that the name will result in negative discrimination in at least some circumstances? You might as well put a tattoo on your child's forehead saying, "My Mother is an Idiot."

Were I a Black parent, I would go to the other extreme, naming my kid with the most Wasp-ish name I could imagine ("Chatsworth Osborne Smith"), in the hope that it might open a door somewhere in the future. If you want to CALL your kid something more creative, knock yourself out. But to put "D'boneHead" on a Birth Certificate is almost criminally stupid.

Here we have another white person trying to tell blacks what to do. First off, the root cause of the problems we face are rooted in racist beliefs and behavior of whites. Blacks don't need to name our kids as whites tell us to. Whites like the OP need to stop being racists.

George trayvon martin

 

[MarcATL]

There is no 'approved' list of names. It's culture. If you try and make yourself part of the culture, you'll quickly figure out the social norms.

That said, I doubt that people don't know what is normalized and what isn't.

But here's an idea, go to the elite private schools were successful people send their kids, and see what names are common.

If you want to be successful, make someone who is successful your role model.

Jay-Z's extremely successful.

Should I be using him as a role-model?

 

[Andylusion]

There is no 'approved' list of names. It's culture. If you try and make yourself part of the culture, you'll quickly figure out the social norms.

That said, I doubt that people don't know what is normalized and what isn't.

But here's an idea, go to the elite private schools were successful people send their kids, and see what names are common.

If you want to be successful, make someone who is successful your role model.

Jay-Z's extremely successful.

Should I be using him as a role-model?

If that is what you are going for.... ok. But that really isn't what we were talking about..... that's a stage name. His name isn't Jay-Z.

His name is Shawn. Which is a very American name, so you actually made my point....

But seriously, if you want to have a some whacked out name, to be in the media.... if that's the success you are looking for, then go for it.

But the context of this was more generally how people succeed in society.

If you want a job at a bank, and write "Tity Boi".... don't be surprised if you are not hired.
You apply for a job as a doctor at a hospital, and write your name Snoop Dogg.... don't be shocked if you seem to get passed over.
You apply at a stock brokerage company with the name '50 cent' on the application.... good luck....

I've been curious as to why Rappers need to have dumb names. I've wondered if they would have been successful, without using a dumb name.

Selena Gomez, Ariana Grande, Katy Perry, Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran

All these people, just go by.... their names. They are perfectly comfortable with having a normal name. So why do.... typically rappers.... need dumb stage names? I don't get it.

If Shawn, had stuck with Shawn, instead of Jay-z, would he be any less talented? And if not, would he not have been as successful?

I don't know... just curious.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

I have written in this space previously that much of Black "inequality" can be reasonably attributed to voluntary behaviors by individual Blacks - mainly bastardy, school drop-out tendency, and petty criminality - and I have recently come upon another one, also a total mystery to me.

It is "common knowledge" in the Black community that having a "Black" name can often lead to, for example, employment applications being discarded, and other similar forms of discrimination. Indeed, I have read some first-person accounts of white people having Black-sounding names (e.g., "Jamal") and experiencing such discrimination "unfairly"(?).

And yet, the trend toward bizarre Christian names among Blacks seems to be increasing as time goes by.

Malik. LaShonda. Trayvon. LaToya. Names with mis-placed capital letters, and apostrophes. I pity the inner-city Kindergarten teacher who must address these children in school for the first time, trying to figure out how to pronounce some of these bizarre names, and to do so without laughing. I have occasionally thought that mothers invent them in the hope that one day the child will be a mega-super-star of one form or another who can be known simply by that first name. Shaquille. OJ. Michael. Et cetera. (Oops. Has anybody used that one?)

But seriously, is this not an utterly stupid thing to do? Why would you - even potentially - saddle your kid with a name that will label him/her as Black, sight unseen, for the rest of his or her life, knowing that it is likely that the name will result in negative discrimination in at least some circumstances? You might as well put a tattoo on your child's forehead saying, "My Mother is an Idiot."

Were I a Black parent, I would go to the other extreme, naming my kid with the most Wasp-ish name I could imagine ("Chatsworth Osborne Smith"), in the hope that it might open a door somewhere in the future. If you want to CALL your kid something more creative, knock yourself out. But to put "D'boneHead" on a Birth Certificate is almost criminally stupid.

Wow.

This is very unfortunate, to read that you have saddled yourself with this troubling mindset. Did you ever get to experience what America means??...that not only us White people made it, great, so those Blacks who also made it great should get to enjoy their Freedom just like us Caucasians get to enjoy.

And that is including naming their offspring whatever they choose to, then expecting America to respect their choices and their right/their liberty to make that choice.

I was able to appreciate what some member said here/efficiently synopsized how you have made yourself appear in here:

... the root cause of the problems we face are rooted in racist beliefs and behavior of whites. Blacks don't need to name our kids as whites tell us to...

 

[miketx]

Two of the most retarded names for blacks I ever heard were "Female" pronounced Fe-molly, and Urmajusty. The later being a kid is prison I knew. Where else could he end up at? Also knew a Mexican named "Little Joe Gonzales". The parents should be horse whipped.

 

[harmonica]

I have written in this space previously that much of Black "inequality" can be reasonably attributed to voluntary behaviors by individual Blacks - mainly bastardy, school drop-out tendency, and petty criminality - and I have recently come upon another one, also a total mystery to me.

It is "common knowledge" in the Black community that having a "Black" name can often lead to, for example, employment applications being discarded, and other similar forms of discrimination. Indeed, I have read some first-person accounts of white people having Black-sounding names (e.g., "Jamal") and experiencing such discrimination "unfairly"(?).

And yet, the trend toward bizarre Christian names among Blacks seems to be increasing as time goes by.

Malik. LaShonda. Trayvon. LaToya. Names with mis-placed capital letters, and apostrophes. I pity the inner-city Kindergarten teacher who must address these children in school for the first time, trying to figure out how to pronounce some of these bizarre names, and to do so without laughing. I have occasionally thought that mothers invent them in the hope that one day the child will be a mega-super-star of one form or another who can be known simply by that first name. Shaquille. OJ. Michael. Et cetera. (Oops. Has anybody used that one?)

But seriously, is this not an utterly stupid thing to do? Why would you - even potentially - saddle your kid with a name that will label him/her as Black, sight unseen, for the rest of his or her life, knowing that it is likely that the name will result in negative discrimination in at least some circumstances? You might as well put a tattoo on your child's forehead saying, "My Mother is an Idiot."

Were I a Black parent, I would go to the other extreme, naming my kid with the most Wasp-ish name I could imagine ("Chatsworth Osborne Smith"), in the hope that it might open a door somewhere in the future. If you want to CALL your kid something more creative, knock yourself out. But to put "D'boneHead" on a Birth Certificate is almost criminally stupid.

Wow.

This is very unfortunate, to read that you have saddled yourself with this troubling mindset. Did you ever get to experience what America means??...that not only us White people made it, great, so those Blacks who also made it great should get to enjoy their Freedom just like us Caucasians get to enjoy.

And that is including naming their offspring whatever they choose to, then expecting America to respect their choices and their right/their liberty to make that choice.

I was able to appreciate what some member said here/efficiently synopsized how you have made yourself appear in here:

... the root cause of the problems we face are rooted in racist beliefs and behavior of whites. Blacks don't need to name our kids as whites tell us to...

blacks didn't make it great--jesus christ--you must be on some heavy meds
..blacks screw it up

 

[miketx]

I have written in this space previously that much of Black "inequality" can be reasonably attributed to voluntary behaviors by individual Blacks - mainly bastardy, school drop-out tendency, and petty criminality - and I have recently come upon another one, also a total mystery to me.

It is "common knowledge" in the Black community that having a "Black" name can often lead to, for example, employment applications being discarded, and other similar forms of discrimination. Indeed, I have read some first-person accounts of white people having Black-sounding names (e.g., "Jamal") and experiencing such discrimination "unfairly"(?).

And yet, the trend toward bizarre Christian names among Blacks seems to be increasing as time goes by.

Malik. LaShonda. Trayvon. LaToya. Names with mis-placed capital letters, and apostrophes. I pity the inner-city Kindergarten teacher who must address these children in school for the first time, trying to figure out how to pronounce some of these bizarre names, and to do so without laughing. I have occasionally thought that mothers invent them in the hope that one day the child will be a mega-super-star of one form or another who can be known simply by that first name. Shaquille. OJ. Michael. Et cetera. (Oops. Has anybody used that one?)

But seriously, is this not an utterly stupid thing to do? Why would you - even potentially - saddle your kid with a name that will label him/her as Black, sight unseen, for the rest of his or her life, knowing that it is likely that the name will result in negative discrimination in at least some circumstances? You might as well put a tattoo on your child's forehead saying, "My Mother is an Idiot."

Were I a Black parent, I would go to the other extreme, naming my kid with the most Wasp-ish name I could imagine ("Chatsworth Osborne Smith"), in the hope that it might open a door somewhere in the future. If you want to CALL your kid something more creative, knock yourself out. But to put "D'boneHead" on a Birth Certificate is almost criminally stupid.

Wow.

This is very unfortunate, to read that you have saddled yourself with this troubling mindset. Did you ever get to experience what America means??...that not only us White people made it, great, so those Blacks who also made it great should get to enjoy their Freedom just like us Caucasians get to enjoy.

And that is including naming their offspring whatever they choose to, then expecting America to respect their choices and their right/their liberty to make that choice.

I was able to appreciate what some member said here/efficiently synopsized how you have made yourself appear in here:

... the root cause of the problems we face are rooted in racist beliefs and behavior of whites. Blacks don't need to name our kids as whites tell us to...

blacks didn't make it great--jesus christ--you must be on some heavy meds
..blacks screw it up

It just proves the the age old saying - you can't fix stupid - was never more accurate than today.

 

[Muhammed]

I have written in this space previously that much of Black "inequality" can be reasonably attributed to voluntary behaviors by individual Blacks - mainly bastardy, school drop-out tendency, and petty criminality - and I have recently come upon another one, also a total mystery to me.

It is "common knowledge" in the Black community that having a "Black" name can often lead to, for example, employment applications being discarded, and other similar forms of discrimination. Indeed, I have read some first-person accounts of white people having Black-sounding names (e.g., "Jamal") and experiencing such discrimination "unfairly"(?).

And yet, the trend toward bizarre Christian names among Blacks seems to be increasing as time goes by.

Malik. LaShonda. Trayvon. LaToya. Names with mis-placed capital letters, and apostrophes. I pity the inner-city Kindergarten teacher who must address these children in school for the first time, trying to figure out how to pronounce some of these bizarre names, and to do so without laughing. I have occasionally thought that mothers invent them in the hope that one day the child will be a mega-super-star of one form or another who can be known simply by that first name. Shaquille. OJ. Michael. Et cetera. (Oops. Has anybody used that one?)

But seriously, is this not an utterly stupid thing to do? Why would you - even potentially - saddle your kid with a name that will label him/her as Black, sight unseen, for the rest of his or her life, knowing that it is likely that the name will result in negative discrimination in at least some circumstances? You might as well put a tattoo on your child's forehead saying, "My Mother is an Idiot."

Were I a Black parent, I would go to the other extreme, naming my kid with the most Wasp-ish name I could imagine ("Chatsworth Osborne Smith"), in the hope that it might open a door somewhere in the future. If you want to CALL your kid something more creative, knock yourself out. But to put "D'boneHead" on a Birth Certificate is almost criminally stupid.

Its all the fault of the French. They still think they can name our beloved Negros.

Fuck them, nuke Paris.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Got newz for ya Flush. If you singled people out on the basis of what their name was, you were NOT "successful". You were a failure.

Sorry dumbshit but I wasn't a failure. Because I did the right thing and didn't hire dumbass Neggras because of a stupid affirmative action program the contracts I managed were successful and I was reward nicely. Because of the money I made I was able to retire early and comfortably. LOL!

Kissing the ass of stupid Neggras is not a measure of success. Well maybe if you are a Democrat politician trying to get welfare queen votes but not for real Americans.

Your racism is a display of your failure.

His "racism" does not seem to have negatively impacted his results.


Indeed, he has explained his reasoning behind his actions. His results seem to validate it. YOur claim that there was some failure from it, does not seem supported by his results.

On the contrary, his results are not at all enviable. If he's lying about his practices, highly likely since this is the internet where I'm a qualified brain surgeon, then he's impugned his own character and done so voluntarily; if he's not lying, then he's impugned hos own character and done so voluntarily, PLUS he's done disservices to the applicants, AND he's cheated his employer out of immeasurable unknowable potential. There is no scenario where it's a positive thing to dump your own options just because you can't handle them.. If I caught an employee doing that he'd be out on his ass wid a quickness.

So his results, if they be real, are that he cost his employer unknown potential; if they be unreal then he's a liar.

1. Your assumption that he must be lying about his results, reflects on your character, not his.


2. Your assumption that there was hidden potential that he was cheating his employer of, is unsupported. And is the crux of the matter. You can't just assume that your view is right and expect to be taken seriously.

3. Your pretense that him disagreeing with you on racial or cultural issues, makes him a bad person, is just you being narrow minded.

Cut Pogo a break. He just isn't all that bright.

 

[Likkmee]

She spelled ho wrong

 

[Jarlaxle]

Go ahead. Tell me a person needing to hire sees those names and refuses to hire them because they are "afraid". G'wan. Insist, so I can laugh at you.

Your affirmative action education and white fragility has you living in a constant state of psychosis. How do you look at a resume and determine that Tyrone or Latriece are unqualified based on their names but Tom and Jane are more qualified? Don't you saltines even call references?

Poor IM2. Resorting to name calling means I win.

Not really. In a debate facts win. And since you can't present any, you lose the debate. Every time. Now the thing about white fragility is it leads whites who can't face the truth on racial matters to run away and hide when they face the opposite of what they have chosen to believe. So every white racist that runs to ignore is a victory.

YOU, make me laugh. You're a racist white female. You either leech off a man, or have made it because of affirmative action. You have what you have for rights because blacks fought for civil rights. So you're a joke and because you are, I treat you like one.

You would not recognize a fact if it marched past you playing Thriller on a pink Sousaphone.

 

[Jarlaxle]

1. I suggested that EITHER he lied about his practices, which would actually make him look less worse, OR that he didn't lie and is thereby in a worse position than if he made it all up.

2. I made no such assumption --- you did. My assumption is that among X number of applicants (he doesn't say how many), it is impossible to ass-sume that certain names do not have positive potential based on what their friggin' NAME IS. And that's not an assumption, it's a simple FACT.

3. Again on the contrary, the narrowmindedness is what I JUST POINTED OUT.

4. What attracts your attention cannot possibly be more meaningless. I simply observed what kind of position you came in to white-knight for. It speaks volumes.

Oh? A name doesn't reveal something about the cultural or mindset of the background of the person?


INteresting. Please, go on.

No, it doesn't tell you much about anything relating to that person.

Hi, my name is Bernie. What does that tell you about me?

Nothing.

I could be Montgomery from the UK that fought in two world wars.
Or

Obama, the half brother of Barak.
Sanders, a communist US politician.
Madoff, a ponzi schemer.
Scott, a football player
Claesen Speirdyke a Dutch pirate

Famous People Named Bernie & Bernard

Hundreds on hundreds of Bernies. Do tell, what mindset can you tell from that name, that applies to all these people? Catholics, protestants, Jews, atheists, and I wager some other cultist views in there.

What does that name explain to you about that entire group of people?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. You can't learn one single thing from their name alone. Not one.

Now if you want to look up the history of the name.. that's fine. And you can learn something about the culture that the name came from. I agree with that.

But as it applies to individuals, you can learn absolutely nothing. You will learn more about me, in talking to me for 5 minutes, then you ever will by seeing my name tag and a decade of research on that name.

People in interviews, are working hard to present themselves to make a good impression. That is not always the real them.



True, "Bernie" might not tell you much about where the person came from.


A really stupid "black" name, does.


Maybe the person rebelled against their parents and is trying to walk away from that culture.


But you do have an idea of their starting point.


That is a valid decision making factor.

So I would agree with that. And that's kind of my point.

A good name.... or a 'common' name, may tell someone nothing about you. But a difficult name, or ridiculous name, will unavoidably give a negative first impression.

Which is completely reasonable.


You got some poor smuch named, "Sunbeam" and you are probably pretty safe thinking they grew up handicapped by hippie parents.


If you have a negative view of hippies, and who doesn't? THat is a reasonable thing to consider when hiring.

I knew two people raised by hippies.

One was Sean, one was Siobhan. (Mom was Guenheyvar. Yes, that was her birth name. Yes, she was Irish.)

 

[Jarlaxle]

So I would agree with that. And that's kind of my point.

A good name.... or a 'common' name, may tell someone nothing about you. But a difficult name, or ridiculous name, will unavoidably give a negative first impression.

Which is completely reasonable.


You got some poor smuch named, "Sunbeam" and you are probably pretty safe thinking they grew up handicapped by hippie parents.


If you have a negative view of hippies, and who doesn't? THat is a reasonable thing to consider when hiring.

Are you hiring Sumbeam, or Sunbeam's parents?

You DO understand those are two different entities ---- do you not?

I already addressed that.


Your pretense that I did not, is accepted as an admission that you could not refute it, thus my point stands, and I win.



We agree, stupid "black" names, are a valid reason to not hire someone.

A valiant try Danth, but no Cheroot. You posted a flawed premise and I pointed to the flaw, ergo you lose.

Except I already addressed that. At least twice.


So, you had an opportunity to try to counter my counter point, and instead you dodged.


That is what you do, if you are trying to use dishonest tactics to avoid the point, instead of truly believing your position is correct.


YOur actions, reveal your belief that I am right and you are wrong.

I see you have finally figured out Pogo. He NEVER counters. He NEVER defends his position. He dodges,. distracts, evades, and posts random nonsense.

 

[Jarlaxle]

White people call their sons Dick

I always thought that was a terrible name. Of course it's pretty much non-used now.

Interestingly, the origins of the name is German, for like Triumphant Ruler, or Dominate Ruler or something.

How it got to mean what it does now, is curious.

It's generally not a name. It's a nickname, for Richard.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

This is very unfortunate, to read that you have saddled yourself with this troubling mindset. Did you ever get to experience what America means??...that not only us White people made it, great, so those Blacks who also made it great should get to enjoy their Freedom just like us Caucasians get to enjoy.

Those who eschew education and pass on attitudes guaranteeing failure are making America great?

 

[Muhammed]

White people call their sons Dick

Like Dick Trickle. You gotta admit, his parents had a sense of humor.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

Those who eschew education and pass on attitudes guaranteeing failure are making America great?

No. You focused only on those negros who our racist nation, cheated, and wants us all to blame everything upon them. I was not referring to those Americans.

I was talking about other negros who you might've marginalized and disregarded here.
I'm talking about Negros who:
-fight for the USA on the frontline of current wars as members of the DoD
-fight for the USA on Capitol Hill in Congress
-attending many of hundreds of Universities, as scholars and researchers.
-working at any of our hundreds of Universities, as scholars and Profs.
-paying income taxes at their American jobs ---that they'll soon retire from after 20-30 years now.
-and of course, I have to include these anti-eschewers of education: The Black Inventor Online Museum | Profiles on African American and Black Inventors Over the Last 300 Years