Bible criticism

[Picaro]

I had heard he was Christian -- Eusebius tells us this.

Christian and Jewish aren't mutually exclusive labels. All of the first Christians were Jewish, and Christians taught from the Jewish Temples in the beginning. Paul taught almost exclusively from Jewish temples and synagogues early in his travels; later his reception was more and more hostile as Christianity spread. They aren't even mutually exclusive these days; many Christian Jews are around.

 

[Penelope]

Are you talking Titus, whose right hand man was a jew, an Alexander? Let us remember Judea and Israel was in a civil war since the Maccabees, till the destruction of the Temple. Zealot Jews killed non zealot jews, burnt down stores of food, so as to make the docile of the jews and Samaritans want to fight the Romans.
Jews set fire to their own city, Titus wanted a peaceful resolution but that did not happen. Josephus and the Alexander's (the rich elite jews or should I say pro Romans ) in Alexandria, Egypt pushed for Vespasian to be Emperor. Jews destroyed their own Judea and temple. Peace or rebellion, they chose Jesus Barabbas to be set free, not the peaceful Jesus the Messiah.

Jew as in ethnic bloodline. Not a religion.

Well today even if a jew is atheist they are still considered a jew. Jew is not a bloodline. A Judean use to be anyone from Judea. Just like American, we have Jews, Christians, French, Muslims, Arabs, Catholics, Japanese, and if they live here and are citizens they are called American.

Today jews fight over who is a jew, just like Christians fight over who is a real Christian.

Its funny how jewish history and stories love to leave him out of the story, and blame it all on Rome.

Back to the NT.

You are mixing faith and blood linage. And Herrord, Titus, Pilot etc where Jews of blood linage but not of faith. And we know about them because Jews handed down their history.

They intermarried long before Herod, Titus , Ezra makes it pretty clear. Jew is not a race, anyone from Judea was a considered a jew in the bible time.

Jew is a race as well as a religion, dufus. There are plenty of athiest Jews around.

No its not. If an atheist is a jew , they he is no longer a jew. Today it has become a religion, use to be a nationality , those from Judah and those from the tribe of Judah. Now they are calling themselves Israelis, and speak Hebrew, so they are Hebrews. That is the problem , they don't know who or what they are.

 

[Penelope]

I had heard he was Christian -- Eusebius tells us this.

Christian and Jewish aren't mutually exclusive labels. All of the first Christians were Jewish, and Christians taught from the Jewish Temples in the beginning. Paul taught almost exclusively from Jewish temples and synagogues early in his travels; later his reception was more and more hostile as Christianity spread. They aren't even mutually exclusive these days; many Christian Jews are around.

No such thing as a jew Christian, you can't be both , either or. Paul, whoever he was, taught from Greek temples in Greece, and today's Turkey. Minor Asia. Peter was to teach the jews, remember, Paul went after the gentiles , Greeks.

 

[Picaro]

I had heard he was Christian -- Eusebius tells us this.

Christian and Jewish aren't mutually exclusive labels. All of the first Christians were Jewish, and Christians taught from the Jewish Temples in the beginning. Paul taught almost exclusively from Jewish temples and synagogues early in his travels; later his reception was more and more hostile as Christianity spread. They aren't even mutually exclusive these days; many Christian Jews are around.

No such thing as a jew Christian, you can't be both , either or.

Yes, you can. Your antisemitism doesn't change that fact.

 

[Penelope]

You are mixing faith and blood linage. And Herrord, Titus, Pilot etc where Jews of blood linage but not of faith. And we know about them because Jews handed down their history.[/QUOTE]

They intermarried long before Herod, Titus , Ezra makes it pretty clear. Jew is not a race, anyone from Judea was a considered a jew in the bible time.[/QUOTE]
Jew is a race as well as a religion, dufus. There are plenty of athiest Jews around.[/QUOTE]

No its not. If an atheist is a jew , they he is no longer a jew. Today it has become a religion, use to be a nationality , those from Judah and those from the tribe of Judah. Now they are calling themselves Israelis, and speak Hebrew, so they are Hebrews. That is the problem , they don't know who or what they are.[/QUOTE]

You think Peter , a Jew, would have written, "honor Vespasian"? Seriously?

The guy responsible for the destruction of the temple and the slaughter, exile and enslavement of hundreds of thousands of Jews?

Really? the same emperor who claimed divinity?

Its not more likely that some unnamed Roman security authority added that last line, "honor the emperor", whichever emperor it was at the time, long after Peter was dead?


Yeah right.

Are you talking Titus, whose right hand man was a jew, an Alexander? Let us remember Judea and Israel was in a civil war since the Maccabees, till the destruction of the Temple. Zealot Jews killed non zealot jews, burnt down stores of food, so as to make the docile of the jews and Samaritans want to fight the Romans.
Jews set fire to their own city, Titus wanted a peaceful resolution but that did not happen. Josephus and the Alexander's (the rich elite jews or should I say pro Romans ) in Alexandria, Egypt pushed for Vespasian to be Emperor. Jews destroyed their own Judea and temple. Peace or rebellion, they chose Jesus Barabbas to be set free, not the peaceful Jesus the Messiah.

Jew as in ethnic bloodline. Not a religion.

Well today even if a jew is atheist they are still considered a jew. Jew is not a bloodline. A Judean use to be anyone from Judea. Just like American, we have Jews, Christians, French, Muslims, Arabs, Catholics, Japanese, and if they live here and are citizens they are called American.

Today jews fight over who is a jew, just like Christians fight over who is a real Christian.

Its funny how jewish history and stories love to leave him out of the story, and blame it all on Rome.

Back to the NT.

You are mixing faith and blood linage. And Herrord, Titus, Pilot etc where Jews of blood linage but not of faith. And we know about them because Jews handed down their history.

Jewish society was obsessed with genealogies in that era, and some sects still are. Some of the offices of priesthood and Temple positions depended on inheritance and genealogical qualifications. Half of Joachim Jeremiah's historical study, Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, is devoted to Jewish purity laws and its importance to social status and qualifications for various offices and 'acceptable' businesses and trades for the various social strata. It was a very detailed social order.

Really, except when your hard up for men hey.

Idumea or Edom in Hebrew was the region south of Judea originally inhabited by the reputed descendents of Jacob's brother Esau.

Edom was periodically subjected to Judea (under David & Solomon [10th c. BCE] & the Maccabees [2nd c. BCE]). Homeland of the house of Herod. There were no natural boundaries between Idumea & Judea, so the borders were always in flux. The distinction between Edomites & Jews was blurred by Johanan Hyrcanus' forced conversion of Idumea to Judaism [ca. 130 BCE]. During the 1st c. CE pressure by the Arab Nabateans pushed the territory of the Edomites to within 15 miles of Jerusalem. The region was bounded by the city state of Gaza on the west and the Dead Sea on the east. Herod's wilderness fortress of Masada that served as the final base of Jewish resistance to Roman rule lay within its borders. After 70 CE Idumea was detached from Judea until it was captured by modern Israel in the Six-Day War [1967].

Idumea/Edom | Jewish Virtual Library

 

[Penelope]

I had heard he was Christian -- Eusebius tells us this.

Christian and Jewish aren't mutually exclusive labels. All of the first Christians were Jewish, and Christians taught from the Jewish Temples in the beginning. Paul taught almost exclusively from Jewish temples and synagogues early in his travels; later his reception was more and more hostile as Christianity spread. They aren't even mutually exclusive these days; many Christian Jews are around.

No such thing as a jew Christian, you can't be both , either or.

Yes, you can. Your antisemitism doesn't change that fact.

Nothing to do with anti Semitism, just fact.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

Christianity was the first faith that taught loyalty to government.

link ...


however an absurd reasoning their material objectives do coincide.

.

You cannot look up "render to Caesar" on your own?

What are you? Lame?

.

You cannot look up "render to Caesar" on your own?

that was not what you claimed ...

Christianity was the first faith that taught loyalty to government.

few religions have ever been anything but subservient to their governance, christianity veered from breaking that mold for expediency to claim it was a pledge of loyalty would make their faith even less meaningful than it already is.


- which ever religion was the first not to "render to Caesar" was probably the last ...

.

 

[emilynghiem]

I am tired of reading all the bible thumping threads telling us the bible is the word of God, and we will burn in hell if we do not believe it. So here is a thread to dismantle the bible and prove it cannot be from God, and it has not been preserved unchanged.
I will be posting many links and doing some cut and paste jobs, because I am no bible expert, but I know a lot of work has been done on this by others.

The first point I would like to raise is the age of Noah and other so called prophets. The bible says Noah lived to be 950 years old, but I read somewhere that this is now believed to be a mistake in the translation of the numbers from an early bible, by a scribe that did not understand the numbering system.
I will research this and post links.

To be going on with here are a couple of links to critical pages.

Bible Babble - The Holy Bible and it's Errors, Contradictions, and so on.

Biblical scientific errors - RationalWiki

Dear Dajjal

I think the simpler way to solve this problem is to prove that the Bible include Gentiles under natural laws as the second fold of the one flock under Jesus governance.

Thus, nontheists are not "left out" of the Bible, but the Bible clearly says the gentiles who have not the law but by conscience do the things contained in the law become a law unto themselves.

Thus the natural law approach to God as "nature" which Buddhists, Constitutionalists like Jefferson, secular humanists, Greek ethicists, and psychologists/social scientists respect study and follow.

This is included also.

Jesus fulfills both paths by the spirit of JUSTICE based on universal TRUTH which God represents. No conflict, no contradiction.

The laws of forgiveness and correction of error apply EQUALLY to both believers/Jews and nontheists/Gentiles. Where we all AGREE in truth, that is what sets us free from conflict, suffering and strife. Thus we achieve peace and justice on earth that the Kingdom of God represents in Heaven.

 

[Picaro]

You are mixing faith and blood linage. And Herrord, Titus, Pilot etc where Jews of blood linage but not of faith. And we know about them because Jews handed down their history.

They intermarried long before Herod, Titus , Ezra makes it pretty clear. Jew is not a race, anyone from Judea was a considered a jew in the bible time.[/QUOTE]
Jew is a race as well as a religion, dufus. There are plenty of athiest Jews around.[/QUOTE]

No its not. If an atheist is a jew , they he is no longer a jew. Today it has become a religion, use to be a nationality , those from Judah and those from the tribe of Judah. Now they are calling themselves Israelis, and speak Hebrew, so they are Hebrews. That is the problem , they don't know who or what they are.[/QUOTE]

Are you talking Titus, whose right hand man was a jew, an Alexander? Let us remember Judea and Israel was in a civil war since the Maccabees, till the destruction of the Temple. Zealot Jews killed non zealot jews, burnt down stores of food, so as to make the docile of the jews and Samaritans want to fight the Romans.
Jews set fire to their own city, Titus wanted a peaceful resolution but that did not happen. Josephus and the Alexander's (the rich elite jews or should I say pro Romans ) in Alexandria, Egypt pushed for Vespasian to be Emperor. Jews destroyed their own Judea and temple. Peace or rebellion, they chose Jesus Barabbas to be set free, not the peaceful Jesus the Messiah.

Jew as in ethnic bloodline. Not a religion.

Well today even if a jew is atheist they are still considered a jew. Jew is not a bloodline. A Judean use to be anyone from Judea. Just like American, we have Jews, Christians, French, Muslims, Arabs, Catholics, Japanese, and if they live here and are citizens they are called American.

Today jews fight over who is a jew, just like Christians fight over who is a real Christian.

Its funny how jewish history and stories love to leave him out of the story, and blame it all on Rome.

Back to the NT.

You are mixing faith and blood linage. And Herrord, Titus, Pilot etc where Jews of blood linage but not of faith. And we know about them because Jews handed down their history.

Jewish society was obsessed with genealogies in that era, and some sects still are. Some of the offices of priesthood and Temple positions depended on inheritance and genealogical qualifications. Half of Joachim Jeremiah's historical study, Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, is devoted to Jewish purity laws and its importance to social status and qualifications for various offices and 'acceptable' businesses and trades for the various social strata. It was a very detailed social order.

Really, except when your hard up for men hey.

Idumea or Edom in Hebrew was the region south of Judea originally inhabited by the reputed descendents of Jacob's brother Esau.

Edom was periodically subjected to Judea (under David & Solomon [10th c. BCE] & the Maccabees [2nd c. BCE]). Homeland of the house of Herod. There were no natural boundaries between Idumea & Judea, so the borders were always in flux. The distinction between Edomites & Jews was blurred by Johanan Hyrcanus' forced conversion of Idumea to Judaism [ca. 130 BCE]. During the 1st c. CE pressure by the Arab Nabateans pushed the territory of the Edomites to within 15 miles of Jerusalem. The region was bounded by the city state of Gaza on the west and the Dead Sea on the east. Herod's wilderness fortress of Masada that served as the final base of Jewish resistance to Roman rule lay within its borders. After 70 CE Idumea was detached from Judea until it was captured by modern Israel in the Six-Day War [1967].

Idumea/Edom | Jewish Virtual Library[/QUOTE]

So what does that have to do with what I said? Apparently you have some belief it does, so lay it out.

 

[Penelope]

QUOTE="Weatherman2020, post: 14980710, member: 42929"]

Are you talking Titus, whose right hand man was a jew, an Alexander? Let us remember Judea and Israel was in a civil war since the Maccabees, till the destruction of the Temple. Zealot Jews killed non zealot jews, burnt down stores of food, so as to make the docile of the jews and Samaritans want to fight the Romans.
Jews set fire to their own city, Titus wanted a peaceful resolution but that did not happen. Josephus and the Alexander's (the rich elite jews or should I say pro Romans ) in Alexandria, Egypt pushed for Vespasian to be Emperor. Jews destroyed their own Judea and temple. Peace or rebellion, they chose Jesus Barabbas to be set free, not the peaceful Jesus the Messiah.

Jew as in ethnic bloodline. Not a religion.[/QUOTE]

Well today even if a jew is atheist they are still considered a jew. Jew is not a bloodline. A Judean use to be anyone from Judea. Just like American, we have Jews, Christians, French, Muslims, Arabs, Catholics, Japanese, and if they live here and are citizens they are called American.

Today jews fight over who is a jew, just like Christians fight over who is a real Christian.

Its funny how jewish history and stories love to leave him out of the story, and blame it all on Rome.

Back to the NT.[/QUOTE]
You are mixing faith and blood linage. And Herrord, Titus, Pilot etc where Jews of blood linage but not of faith. And we know about them because Jews handed down their history.[/QUOTE]

Jewish society was obsessed with genealogies in that era, and some sects still are. Some of the offices of priesthood and Temple positions depended on inheritance and genealogical qualifications. Half of Joachim Jeremiah's historical study, Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, is devoted to Jewish purity laws and its importance to social status and qualifications for various offices and 'acceptable' businesses and trades for the various social strata. It was a very detailed social order.[/QUOTE]

Really, except when your hard up for men hey.

Idumea or Edom in Hebrew was the region south of Judea originally inhabited by the reputed descendents of Jacob's brother Esau.

Edom was periodically subjected to Judea (under David & Solomon [10th c. BCE] & the Maccabees [2nd c. BCE]). Homeland of the house of Herod. There were no natural boundaries between Idumea & Judea, so the borders were always in flux. The distinction between Edomites & Jews was blurred by Johanan Hyrcanus' forced conversion of Idumea to Judaism [ca. 130 BCE]. During the 1st c. CE pressure by the Arab Nabateans pushed the territory of the Edomites to within 15 miles of Jerusalem. The region was bounded by the city state of Gaza on the west and the Dead Sea on the east. Herod's wilderness fortress of Masada that served as the final base of Jewish resistance to Roman rule lay within its borders. After 70 CE Idumea was detached from Judea until it was captured by modern Israel in the Six-Day War [1967].

Idumea/Edom | Jewish Virtual Library[/QUOTE]

So what does that have to do with what I said? Apparently you have some belief it does, so lay it out

You said they were puritans in the day of Jesus , 1st century, that is not true. You had some zealots, but are zealots puritans, no I don't think so. Now the essences seem to be a sect that were very pious, and lived away from Jerusalem. The others wanted to fight, and they even killed other Jews and burned food shelters to get the people riles up enough to fight the Romans. They hated the Greeks. Some loved the Greeks and Romans, but not the zealots. There was much infighting going on, they pretty much destroyed themselves as Rome would not tolerate a trade route and area full of zealots and infighting. Rome was very lenient on others religion till it interfered with peace.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Who is a Jew?

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversionto Judaism.

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that OrthodoxJews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship.

This has been established since the earliest days of Judaism. In the Torah, you will see many references to "the strangers who dwell among you" or "righteous proselytes" or "righteous strangers." These are various classifications of non-Jews who lived among Jews, adopting some or all of the beliefs and practices of Judaism without going through the formal process of conversion and becoming Jews. Once a person has converted to Judaism, he is not referred to by any special term; he is as much a Jew as anyone born Jewish.

Judaism 101: Who Is a Jew?

 

[Penelope]

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversionto Judaism.

So Jew is not a race, thank you.

I can also show you many verses of Jews who disagree with that.

 

[Weatherman2020]

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversionto Judaism.

So Jew is not a race, thank you.

I can also show you many verses of Jews who disagree with that.

Jew is a race AND religion, dufus. Learn to read English.

 

[Penelope]

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversionto Judaism.

So Jew is not a race, thank you.

I can also show you many verses of Jews who disagree with that.

Jew is a race AND religion, dufus. Learn to read English.

Well I disagree and so do many rabbis and atheist jews.

 

[irosie91]

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversionto Judaism.

So Jew is not a race, thank you.

I can also show you many verses of Jews who disagree with that.

Jew is a race AND religion, dufus. Learn to read English.

Well I disagree and so do many rabbis and atheist jews.

it is silly for a person who has no idea what the term
"race" means-----to discuss----the issue

 

[Penelope]

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversionto Judaism.

So Jew is not a race, thank you.

I can also show you many verses of Jews who disagree with that.

Jew is a race AND religion, dufus. Learn to read English.

Well I disagree and so do many rabbis and atheist jews.

it is silly for a person who has no idea what the term
"race" means-----to discuss----the issue

I agree.

 

[Weatherman2020]

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversionto Judaism.

So Jew is not a race, thank you.

I can also show you many verses of Jews who disagree with that.

Jew is a race AND religion, dufus. Learn to read English.

Well I disagree and so do many rabbis and atheist jews.

You just called them athiest Jews.
Game Over.

 

[irosie91]

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversionto Judaism.

So Jew is not a race, thank you.

I can also show you many verses of Jews who disagree with that.

Jew is a race AND religion, dufus. Learn to read English.

Well I disagree and so do many rabbis and atheist jews.

it is silly for a person who has no idea what the term
"race" means-----to discuss----the issue

I agree.

so why do you attempt to discuss it?

 

[Penelope]

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversionto Judaism.

So Jew is not a race, thank you.

I can also show you many verses of Jews who disagree with that.

Jew is a race AND religion, dufus. Learn to read English.

Well I disagree and so do many rabbis and atheist jews.

You just called them athiest Jews.
Game Over.

Athesit jews should be called just atheist. If anything they are Israelis, not jews, or they might be American.

 

[Penelope]

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversionto Judaism.

So Jew is not a race, thank you.

I can also show you many verses of Jews who disagree with that.

Jew is a race AND religion, dufus. Learn to read English.

Well I disagree and so do many rabbis and atheist jews.

it is silly for a person who has no idea what the term
"race" means-----to discuss----the issue

I agree.

so why do you attempt to discuss it?

I don't know, I find it's a waste of my time.