Basic Incintive For Minimum-Wage Workers To Raise Themselves Out Of Their Hole...

[kwc57]

Anyone who works a full time job ought to earn a living wage. That greedy nutters expect others to work a full time job, however menial, and STILL be unable to provide for themselves and their families is a primary reason for the fact that they are marginalized.

Well that kind of depends on the worth of that full time job doesn't it? Anyone with two hands can shovel shit all day long as it isn't rocket science......and they will get paid according to their skill. If they want ot make enough to live on, they will have to up their skill level and worth as an employee. That my friend is how it works in the real world.

Elitest bullshit.

Son, the fact that you thought running the fryolater at McDonalds was a sweet job that kept you in weed and beer when you were 18, only to find out at 40 it wasn't a good career path is your problem.....not mine. Life is about choices. Always has been, always will be. Some jobs are beginner jobs. You know, the kind that teenagers get and then move on from. Mowing lawns, sacking groceries, stocking shelves, etc. Anyone can do them. Anyone. There is a downs syndrome kid that sacks groceries at the store I use. They are a first step that gets some experience under your belt and a track record of being a good worker who shows up on time and is courteous to the customer. From there, you find a job that requires more skill, more knowledge and in return, you get better pay. Then you repeat that process. Along the way, you go to school and study a subject with a track record of proven need and success. Studying medieval literature is not going to get you anything beyond working in a library or camping with the OWS crowd demanding your fair share. Getting an engineering degree pretty much ensures you are employable and will make a good living. In short, it is how the real world works. The fact that you think at 40 years old, McDonalds owes you a "living wage" for cooking fries for the last 22 years is laughable and pathetic. Elitest bullshit my ass.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And unemployment would jump.. prices of goods and services would jump..

But hey.. he's only looking to buy votes

The idea that raising the minimum wage will cause layoffs really isn't accurate at all.
The Levy Institute has a paper that addresses that issue. In 1998, the Levy Institute surveyed small business owners and found only 9.9% thought the would alter their hiring plans, 84.8% said it wouldn't.
Asked about the effect regarding past minimum wage increase effected their hiring, 6.2% it did, 89.4% said it didn't. When asked about another increase with minimum wage, 20.7 said it would effect their hiring or layoffs, 75.6& said it wouldn't.
Now I recognize this survey was done in 1998, but I have yet to find any facts that back up the assertion that raising the minimum wage would result in sure fire layoffs.
http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/pn98_3.pdf

Then there's these charts:

Sorry but there are some jobs that just aren't worth 9.50 an hour.

I have a kid who does odd jobs for me for 7.25 an hour. If I have to pay him 9.50 I'd rather pawn those jobs off on some of my higher paid employees or do them myself.

So what's better,a high school kid with a good part time job or one with no part time job?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Another laughable point when considering the whole increase in minimum wage issue is, when employers are forced to pay more, they most often just pass that cost on to the customer. That means an increase in price across the board, down to the lowest retail levels. The net result is inevitable, despite their minimum wage increase, the worker is now faced with increased costs for everything.
Oh, shit! That's another one of those economic truisms that our community organizer-in-chief would not be aware of, and his court clowns are just as oblivious.

 

[Meister]

Anyone who works a full time job ought to earn a living wage. That greedy nutters expect others to work a full time job, however menial, and STILL be unable to provide for themselves and their families is a primary reason for the fact that they are marginalized.

Well that kind of depends on the worth of that full time job doesn't it? Anyone with two hands can shovel shit all day long as it isn't rocket science......and they will get paid according to their skill. If they want ot make enough to live on, they will have to up their skill level and worth as an employee. That my friend is how it works in the real world.

Elitest bullshit.

That was elitest?

Drink another glass of Kool-Aid, Lonelaugher

 

[auditor0007]

If we are to have a minimum wage (and I'm more for it than against)... then we need regular, small, planned increases to ensure that business can appropriately plan their costs, pricing structure, etc. These petty 'vote buying' bounces are not good for anyone - except the party.

That actually makes sense. It is unfortunate that we have allowed the minimum wage to decline over the last few decades. Now to discuss raising the minimum wage further sounds harsh, but the fact is that even with the just recent raises in the minimum wage, it's purchasing power is still 25% less than it was in 1967 when it was at it's highest. In 2006, the minimum wage had just over half the purchasing power of the minimum wage in 1967.

 

[Katzndogz]

The idea that raising the minimum wage will cause layoffs really isn't accurate at all.
The Levy Institute has a paper that addresses that issue. In 1998, the Levy Institute surveyed small business owners and found only 9.9% thought the would alter their hiring plans, 84.8% said it wouldn't.
Asked about the effect regarding past minimum wage increase effected their hiring, 6.2% it did, 89.4% said it didn't. When asked about another increase with minimum wage, 20.7 said it would effect their hiring or layoffs, 75.6& said it wouldn't.
Now I recognize this survey was done in 1998, but I have yet to find any facts that back up the assertion that raising the minimum wage would result in sure fire layoffs.
Then there's these charts:

You're correct, it wouldn't alter their hiring........as long as they raise their prices to you and me to cover their increased cost.

Studies show that raising the minimum wage actually helps the economy as it puts more money into the consumers hands. It also helps other wage earners because it helps raise their wages too. And just about everyone knows that wages have been seriously flat to the point of not keeping up with inflation.
And what is slowing down any recovery? Lack of demand by the consumer class within an economy that is driven by 70% by consumer spending. Why is their lack of demand? Try households declining expendable income.

Raising the minimum wage doesn't help the minimum wage workers buy anything. Prices rise to cover the cost of raising minimum wage with the real result is that low paid workers are really in the same position they were in before they ever had a raise in the minimum wage. Raising the minimum wage increases inflation as prices must rise to cover the increased costs. The disposable income of minimum wage workers doesn't change unless it just gets worse. A low paid worker who can't afford to eat in the restaurant that employs him as a dishwasher is not suddenly going to be able to afford the prices, he will just find the cost of his Jack in the Box burger goes up.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Hell, why not $25/hr? $35? $50?

 

[Katzndogz]

Just before Los Angeles increased their minimum wage, I was looking for a clean up person to do janitorial services. I hired a woman part time. She called me and said that she was offered another job, similar, but full time. I understood and wished her well. Before she could even start her other job, the minimum wage in California was raised. The employer told her they could not afford her now and the offer was withdrawn. So she called me intending to accept the original offer. I was unwilling to pay the increase and told her that the position was closed.

End result, she was unemployed. I found another way to fill my business needs. I'm sure the other people did too.

That's how it works. Raise that min wage too high and people will find a way around it, under it, over it.

 

[auditor0007]

You're correct, it wouldn't alter their hiring........as long as they raise their prices to you and me to cover their increased cost.

Studies show that raising the minimum wage actually helps the economy as it puts more money into the consumers hands. It also helps other wage earners because it helps raise their wages too. And just about everyone knows that wages have been seriously flat to the point of not keeping up with inflation.
And what is slowing down any recovery? Lack of demand by the consumer class within an economy that is driven by 70% by consumer spending. Why is their lack of demand? Try households declining expendable income.

Raising the minimum wage doesn't help the minimum wage workers buy anything. Prices rise to cover the cost of raising minimum wage with the real result is that low paid workers are really in the same position they were in before they ever had a raise in the minimum wage. Raising the minimum wage increases inflation as prices must rise to cover the increased costs. The disposable income of minimum wage workers doesn't change unless it just gets worse. A low paid worker who can't afford to eat in the restaurant that employs him as a dishwasher is not suddenly going to be able to afford the prices, he will just find the cost of his Jack in the Box burger goes up.

You are correct on one side of the coin; however, you missed the flipside. Paying lower paid workers more money allows those workers to spend more money, and low paid workers spend all the money they make. This puts more money back into the economy, creating a much more robust economy. As lower income workers buy more goods, the cost of those goods come down. It is important to understand both sides. If you do, you can begin to understand that in the long run, raising the minimum wage actually helps everyone.

 

[bayoubill]

Studies show that raising the minimum wage actually helps the economy as it puts more money into the consumers hands. It also helps other wage earners because it helps raise their wages too. And just about everyone knows that wages have been seriously flat to the point of not keeping up with inflation.
And what is slowing down any recovery? Lack of demand by the consumer class within an economy that is driven by 70% by consumer spending. Why is their lack of demand? Try households declining expendable income.

Raising the minimum wage doesn't help the minimum wage workers buy anything. Prices rise to cover the cost of raising minimum wage with the real result is that low paid workers are really in the same position they were in before they ever had a raise in the minimum wage. Raising the minimum wage increases inflation as prices must rise to cover the increased costs. The disposable income of minimum wage workers doesn't change unless it just gets worse. A low paid worker who can't afford to eat in the restaurant that employs him as a dishwasher is not suddenly going to be able to afford the prices, he will just find the cost of his Jack in the Box burger goes up.

You are correct on one side of the coin; however, you missed the flipside. Paying lower paid workers more money allows those workers to spend more money, and low paid workers spend all the money they make. This puts more money back into the economy, creating a much more robust economy. As lower income workers buy more goods, the cost of those goods come down. It is important to understand both sides. If you do, you can begin to understand that in the long run, raising the minimum wage actually helps everyone.

you miss the point of the OP...

which is: if all jobs pay at the very least "a living wage" (i.e., at least as much as it takes for an adult to feed himself and pay his bills),

then many folks will find no incentive to rise above such subsistence living... i.e., will neglect to make the changes necessary to better their position in life...

 

[auditor0007]

Raising the minimum wage doesn't help the minimum wage workers buy anything. Prices rise to cover the cost of raising minimum wage with the real result is that low paid workers are really in the same position they were in before they ever had a raise in the minimum wage. Raising the minimum wage increases inflation as prices must rise to cover the increased costs. The disposable income of minimum wage workers doesn't change unless it just gets worse. A low paid worker who can't afford to eat in the restaurant that employs him as a dishwasher is not suddenly going to be able to afford the prices, he will just find the cost of his Jack in the Box burger goes up.

You are correct on one side of the coin; however, you missed the flipside. Paying lower paid workers more money allows those workers to spend more money, and low paid workers spend all the money they make. This puts more money back into the economy, creating a much more robust economy. As lower income workers buy more goods, the cost of those goods come down. It is important to understand both sides. If you do, you can begin to understand that in the long run, raising the minimum wage actually helps everyone.

you miss the point of the OP...

which is: if all jobs pay at the very least "a living wage" (i.e., at least as much as it takes for an adult to feed himself and pay his bills),

then many folks will find no incentive to rise above such subsistence living... i.e., will neglect to make the changes necessary to better their position in life...

Here is another point; we will always have the working poor. There is a certain percentage of society that will always be poor, and nothing we do will change that. However, for those who fall into the category of being poor, should not those people be paid enough to at least afford a roof over their head, food on their table, and affordable medical care, if they work a full-time job?

My answer to that is an absolute yes. It's not a free ride, it doesn't involve creating an extravagant lifestyle, it just allows them to at least not have to worry where their next meal is coming from, and it means they are working and not sucking us dry by going on the dole. People who want more will always try for more. But not everyone wants that, and the truth is not everyone can be that. What would we do if everyone in the US had a Master's Degree or better? Wouldn't that just be great?

 

[bayoubill]

You are correct on one side of the coin; however, you missed the flipside. Paying lower paid workers more money allows those workers to spend more money, and low paid workers spend all the money they make. This puts more money back into the economy, creating a much more robust economy. As lower income workers buy more goods, the cost of those goods come down. It is important to understand both sides. If you do, you can begin to understand that in the long run, raising the minimum wage actually helps everyone.

you miss the point of the OP...

which is: if all jobs pay at the very least "a living wage" (i.e., at least as much as it takes for an adult to feed himself and pay his bills),

then many folks will find no incentive to rise above such subsistence living... i.e., will neglect to make the changes necessary to better their position in life...

Here is another point; we will always have the working poor. There is a certain percentage of society that will always be poor, and nothing we do will change that. However, for those who fall into the category of being poor, should not those people be paid enough to at least afford a roof over their head, food on their table, and affordable medical care, if they work a full-time job?

My answer to that is an absolute yes. It's not a free ride, it doesn't involve creating an extravagant lifestyle, it just allows them to at least not have to worry where their next meal is coming from, and it means they are working and not sucking us dry by going on the dole. People who want more will always try for more. But not everyone wants that, and the truth is not everyone can be that. What would we do if everyone in the US had a Master's Degree or better? Wouldn't that just be great?

restating the OP, as it relates to your first comment:

the minimum wage promotes poverty, by encouraging folks who could otherwise do better to remain "working poor"...

 

[Inthemiddle]

Anyone who works a full time job ought to earn a living wage. That greedy nutters expect others to work a full time job, however menial, and STILL be unable to provide for themselves and their families is a primary reason for the fact that they are marginalized.

It really is amazing how the right wants you to work hard and not be on welfare, but wants your hard work to be unprofitable for you. They want to encourage a "culture of life" but they don't want you to be able to afford to raise a family. All so that someone else can get richer.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

And unemployment would jump.. prices of goods and services would jump..

But hey.. he's only looking to buy votes

Like how unemployment jumped when Bill Clinton raised the minimum wage?

 

[kwc57]

Anyone who works a full time job ought to earn a living wage. That greedy nutters expect others to work a full time job, however menial, and STILL be unable to provide for themselves and their families is a primary reason for the fact that they are marginalized.

It really is amazing how the right wants you to work hard and not be on welfare, but wants your hard work to be unprofitable for you. They want to encourage a "culture of life" but they don't want you to be able to afford to raise a family. All so that someone else can get richer.

You are such a hoot Farontheleft!

 

[Inthemiddle]

Well that kind of depends on the worth of that full time job doesn't it? Anyone with two hands can shovel shit all day long as it isn't rocket science......and they will get paid according to their skill. If they want ot make enough to live on, they will have to up their skill level and worth as an employee. That my friend is how it works in the real world.

Okay, this tired line of BS needs to stop. I realize that you like to think that your Republican Messiahs will legislate Utopia into existence, but it's simply not going to happen. You're completely detached from reality.

 

[Inthemiddle]

gets side-tracked for the time being...

Obama proposes raising the Federally-mandated minimum wage from $7.25 to $9.50...

That large of a jump would never pass.

This is just one more mindless thing he wants to use against the GOP.

Oh, it could pass. It is, in fact, larger than the last increase, from $5.15 to $7.25, proportionally speaking. All they need to do is to do is to spread it out over a couple years.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Note to mention the Union dues bottom line increases.

Do you know that unions make up less than 10% on the entire private sector workforce? So, their power is that profound?

Well look at this chart, it does show how the decline of the unions has effected non-union household income.

Using data from the 1997 NCS, an earlier study by this author examined differences in union and nonunion earnings for major occupational groups within the total economy, private industry, and State and local government.3 In almost all groups, union workers enjoyed a salary advantage over nonunion workers. This article extends the earlier study by using more detailed data from the 1997 NCS to examine union and nonunion earnings distributions for blue-collar and service occupational groups. In addition, the present study examines union and nonunion earnings differences for selected blue-collar and service occupations in the total economy, private industry, and State and local government, and the extent to which workers in these occupations are unionized.

Source

I'm GLAD Union participation is on the wain.

Of course you are. You're green with jealousy.

 

[Inthemiddle]

I have a kid who does odd jobs for me for 7.25 an hour. If I have to pay him 9.50 I'd rather pawn those jobs off on some of my higher paid employees or do them myself.

In other words, while it's not worth $9.50/hr you're willing to work for that much money at those jobs. You're also willing to pay someone else more than that for those jobs. Yep, that makes perfect sense, logically, and great business sense too.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Another laughable point when considering the whole increase in minimum wage issue is, when employers are forced to pay more, they most often just pass that cost on to the customer. That means an increase in price across the board, down to the lowest retail levels. The net result is inevitable, despite their minimum wage increase, the worker is now faced with increased costs for everything.
Oh, shit! That's another one of those economic truisms that our community organizer-in-chief would not be aware of, and his court clowns are just as oblivious.

This is, in fact, an oft repeated myth. Demand is a far more relevant factor in setting prices, than is production costs. Most pricing usually allows for a very comfortable profit margin as it is. The slight increase in minimum wage will not significantly effect the profit margin of most goods. However, significant increases in pricing is likely to effect demand for the product, which will result in less overall money being made by the company.