Basic Incintive For Minimum-Wage Workers To Raise Themselves Out Of Their Hole...

[Soggy in NOLA]

Anyone who works a full time job ought to earn a living wage. That greedy nutters expect others to work a full time job, however menial, and STILL be unable to provide for themselves and their families is a primary reason for the fact that they are marginalized.

It really is amazing how the right wants you to work hard and not be on welfare, but wants your hard work to be unprofitable for you. They want to encourage a "culture of life" but they don't want you to be able to afford to raise a family. All so that someone else can get richer.

Nobody said that... why are you such a fucking liar?

 

[Inthemiddle]

Hell, why not $25/hr? $35? $50?

Continuum fallacy. Now shut the fuck up.

 

[Inthemiddle]

I found another way to fill my business needs.

Let me guess.....illegal labor.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Anyone who works a full time job ought to earn a living wage. That greedy nutters expect others to work a full time job, however menial, and STILL be unable to provide for themselves and their families is a primary reason for the fact that they are marginalized.

It really is amazing how the right wants you to work hard and not be on welfare, but wants your hard work to be unprofitable for you. They want to encourage a "culture of life" but they don't want you to be able to afford to raise a family. All so that someone else can get richer.

You are such a hoot Farontheleft!

And if you really find me to be "far on the left," then you're apparently so blinded by your extremism in your ideology that you're not worth listening to any more than bin Laden was worth entertaining. BLOCKED.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Hell, why not $25/hr? $35? $50?

Continuum fallacy. Now shut the fuck up.

Do you even know what continuum fallacy is?

You semi-literate jerk off.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It really is amazing how the right wants you to work hard and not be on welfare, but wants your hard work to be unprofitable for you. They want to encourage a "culture of life" but they don't want you to be able to afford to raise a family. All so that someone else can get richer.

You are such a hoot Farontheleft!

And if you really find me to be "far on the left," then you're apparently so blinded by your extremism in your ideology that you're not worth listening to any more than bin Laden was worth entertaining. BLOCKED.

HUH???

Lay off the LSD... it's severely affecting your already limited faculties.

 

[chikenwing]

Studies show that raising the minimum wage actually helps the economy as it puts more money into the consumers hands. It also helps other wage earners because it helps raise their wages too. And just about everyone knows that wages have been seriously flat to the point of not keeping up with inflation.
And what is slowing down any recovery? Lack of demand by the consumer class within an economy that is driven by 70% by consumer spending. Why is their lack of demand? Try households declining expendable income.

Raising the minimum wage doesn't help the minimum wage workers buy anything. Prices rise to cover the cost of raising minimum wage with the real result is that low paid workers are really in the same position they were in before they ever had a raise in the minimum wage. Raising the minimum wage increases inflation as prices must rise to cover the increased costs. The disposable income of minimum wage workers doesn't change unless it just gets worse. A low paid worker who can't afford to eat in the restaurant that employs him as a dishwasher is not suddenly going to be able to afford the prices, he will just find the cost of his Jack in the Box burger goes up.

You are correct on one side of the coin; however, you missed the flipside. Paying lower paid workers more money allows those workers to spend more money, and low paid workers spend all the money they make. This puts more money back into the economy, creating a much more robust economy. As lower income workers buy more goods, the cost of those goods come down. It is important to understand both sides. If you do, you can begin to understand that in the long run, raising the minimum wage actually helps everyone.

Who came 1st the chiken or the egg?? Where does the "more" come from? Just pay more and all will be better?? If employment honestly hits 5.5 then a move at 1/2 the purposed not now. Looks more like election year pandering.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Do you even know what continuum fallacy is?

Yes I do. Apparently you don't. Here, let me explain it for you:

When a person, such as yourself, tries to imply that two conditions or issues are in fact the same, because they exist on a continuum. Like you suggesting that an increase in the minimum wage to $9.50/hr should be regarded in the same way as an increase to $30/hr. Those issues exist on a continuum yet are distinct. Your attempt to present one as if it were the same as the other is an example of the continuum fallacy.

You semi-literate jerk off.

Do you know what ad hominem is?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Another laughable point when considering the whole increase in minimum wage issue is, when employers are forced to pay more, they most often just pass that cost on to the customer. That means an increase in price across the board, down to the lowest retail levels. The net result is inevitable, despite their minimum wage increase, the worker is now faced with increased costs for everything.
Oh, shit! That's another one of those economic truisms that our community organizer-in-chief would not be aware of, and his court clowns are just as oblivious.

This is, in fact, an oft repeated myth. Demand is a far more relevant factor in setting prices, than is production costs. Most pricing usually allows for a very comfortable profit margin as it is. The slight increase in minimum wage will not significantly effect the profit margin of most goods. However, significant increases in pricing is likely to effect demand for the product, which will result in less overall money being made by the company.

Another minimum wage earner who knows it all. Have you ever run a business? No. If you price your product beyond demand, and demand declines, you end up with less profit. Whether the left admits it, or not, profit is the motivating factor. If I will not earn a profit, I will not offer the service/goods. If the price I have to charge to cover my cost, including the cost of labor, will not result in an acceptable profit, I will not comply with government demands. I will: not hire unskilled labor, dismiss less skilled labor, demand more for the good/service provided (increasing price overall), or simply not hire or fire unskilled workers.

 

[kwc57]

Well that kind of depends on the worth of that full time job doesn't it? Anyone with two hands can shovel shit all day long as it isn't rocket science......and they will get paid according to their skill. If they want ot make enough to live on, they will have to up their skill level and worth as an employee. That my friend is how it works in the real world.

Okay, this tired line of BS needs to stop. I realize that you like to think that your Republican Messiahs will legislate Utopia into existence, but it's simply not going to happen. You're completely detached from reality.

Look peewee, go ask your 8th grade teachers how real life works. For the record, I have no Republican messiahs as I'm libertarian. You know, old school conservative instead of Democrat lite Republican. The only folks trying to legislate utopia into existence are the Democrats marching behind Dear Ruler's unicorn that shits money for everyone in the parade. I'm not detached from reality, I've been living it for 54 years. You need to educate and inform yourself. If you think legislating businesses into paying a "living wage" for shoveling shit is going to happen, you have no idea how business works.

 

[kwc57]

It really is amazing how the right wants you to work hard and not be on welfare, but wants your hard work to be unprofitable for you. They want to encourage a "culture of life" but they don't want you to be able to afford to raise a family. All so that someone else can get richer.

You are such a hoot Farontheleft!

And if you really find me to be "far on the left," then you're apparently so blinded by your extremism in your ideology that you're not worth listening to any more than bin Laden was worth entertaining. BLOCKED.

Boo fucking hoo you thin skinned sissy! All I have to go on are your words and they are not in the middle.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Another minimum wage earner who knows it all.

And you have come to this conclusion based on......? Nothing, gotcha.

Have you ever run a business? No.

Yes, actually.

If you price your product beyond demand, and demand declines, you end up with less profit.

Exactly what I just said. Pay attention. So, increases in production don't really cause the price of goods to rise. A smart business manager already has priced is goods and services accordingly to maximize revenues off of demand, which already includes a comfortable profit margin so that increases in production costs are well within tolerable ranges. If he tries to increase prices for the minor production cost increases, he'll only be hurting his business goals.

If the price I have to charge to cover my cost, including the cost of labor, will not result in an acceptable profit, I will not comply with government demands. I will: not hire unskilled labor, dismiss less skilled labor, demand more for the good/service provided (increasing price overall), or simply not hire or fire unskilled workers.

So, what you are saying is that if you don't want to abide by the new law and pay workers the minimum wage, you're just going to not hire anyone, and let the work go undone. And that's your idea of running a business successfully? You'll just stop producing? Obviously, you've never operated a business.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Another minimum wage earner who knows it all.

And you have come to this conclusion based on......? Nothing, gotcha.

Have you ever run a business? No.

Yes, actually.

If you price your product beyond demand, and demand declines, you end up with less profit.

Exactly what I just said. Pay attention. So, increases in production don't really cause the price of goods to rise. A smart business manager already has priced is goods and services accordingly to maximize revenues off of demand, which already includes a comfortable profit margin so that increases in production costs are well within tolerable ranges. If he tries to increase prices for the minor production cost increases, he'll only be hurting his business goals.

If the price I have to charge to cover my cost, including the cost of labor, will not result in an acceptable profit, I will not comply with government demands. I will: not hire unskilled labor, dismiss less skilled labor, demand more for the good/service provided (increasing price overall), or simply not hire or fire unskilled workers.

So, what you are saying is that if you don't want to abide by the new law and pay workers the minimum wage, you're just going to not hire anyone, and let the work go undone. And that's your idea of running a business successfully? You'll just stop producing? Obviously, you've never operated a business.

Raising minimum wage in such increments is certainly not a small increase in the cost of production. It depends on how many minimum wage workers you employ. I run with a very small profit margin, as many small farms do.
I also observe that there is a cycle here that should be taken into account. Raise minimum wage=raise in cost of production, in order to maintain a profit margin=prices rise, prices rise in one sector=all related sectors also raise prices to cover the increased cost, prices rise across the board=proud minimum wage worker now spends his pay increase on more expensive goods/services. It's a rat's tail without an end...and, yes, at some point there will be businesses that close their doors because it becomes too expensive to do business. Then your minimum wage workers are now unemployed...or is that the ultimate goal of this type of government meddling?
The nicest part of running a farm is, if the workers go on strike, you eat them.

 

[kwc57]

Another minimum wage earner who knows it all.

And you have come to this conclusion based on......? Nothing, gotcha.



Yes, actually.



Exactly what I just said. Pay attention. So, increases in production don't really cause the price of goods to rise. A smart business manager already has priced is goods and services accordingly to maximize revenues off of demand, which already includes a comfortable profit margin so that increases in production costs are well within tolerable ranges. If he tries to increase prices for the minor production cost increases, he'll only be hurting his business goals.

If the price I have to charge to cover my cost, including the cost of labor, will not result in an acceptable profit, I will not comply with government demands. I will: not hire unskilled labor, dismiss less skilled labor, demand more for the good/service provided (increasing price overall), or simply not hire or fire unskilled workers.

So, what you are saying is that if you don't want to abide by the new law and pay workers the minimum wage, you're just going to not hire anyone, and let the work go undone. And that's your idea of running a business successfully? You'll just stop producing? Obviously, you've never operated a business.

Raising minimum wage in such increments is certainly not a small increase in the cost of production. It depends on how many minimum wage workers you employ. I run with a very small profit margin, as many small farms do.
I also observe that there is a cycle here that should be taken into account. Raise minimum wage=raise in cost of production, in order to maintain a profit margin=prices rise, prices rise in one sector=all related sectors also raise prices to cover the increased cost, prices rise across the board=proud minimum wage worker now spends his pay increase on more expensive goods/services. It's a rat's tail without an end...and, yes, at some point there will be businesses that close their doors because it becomes too expensive to do business. Then your minimum wage workers are now unemployed...or is that the ultimate goal of this type of government meddling?
The nicest part of running a farm is, if the workers go on strike, you eat them.

Don't waste your breath on Farontheleft, she just repeats what her professors tell her. Like every other kid, she'll get a rude awakening when she enters the real world.

 

[gallantwarrior]

And you have come to this conclusion based on......? Nothing, gotcha.



Yes, actually.



Exactly what I just said. Pay attention. So, increases in production don't really cause the price of goods to rise. A smart business manager already has priced is goods and services accordingly to maximize revenues off of demand, which already includes a comfortable profit margin so that increases in production costs are well within tolerable ranges. If he tries to increase prices for the minor production cost increases, he'll only be hurting his business goals.



So, what you are saying is that if you don't want to abide by the new law and pay workers the minimum wage, you're just going to not hire anyone, and let the work go undone. And that's your idea of running a business successfully? You'll just stop producing? Obviously, you've never operated a business.

Raising minimum wage in such increments is certainly not a small increase in the cost of production. It depends on how many minimum wage workers you employ. I run with a very small profit margin, as many small farms do.
I also observe that there is a cycle here that should be taken into account. Raise minimum wage=raise in cost of production, in order to maintain a profit margin=prices rise, prices rise in one sector=all related sectors also raise prices to cover the increased cost, prices rise across the board=proud minimum wage worker now spends his pay increase on more expensive goods/services. It's a rat's tail without an end...and, yes, at some point there will be businesses that close their doors because it becomes too expensive to do business. Then your minimum wage workers are now unemployed...or is that the ultimate goal of this type of government meddling?
The nicest part of running a farm is, if the workers go on strike, you eat them.

Don't waste your breath on Farontheleft, she just repeats what her professors tell her. Like every other kid, she'll get a rude awakening when she enters the real world.

Gotcha! Thanks.

 

[bayoubill]

how 'bout a tune to cheer us all up...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_DV54ddNHE]Billy Preston - Nothing from nothing 1975 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Another laughable point when considering the whole increase in minimum wage issue is, when employers are forced to pay more, they most often just pass that cost on to the customer. That means an increase in price across the board, down to the lowest retail levels. The net result is inevitable, despite their minimum wage increase, the worker is now faced with increased costs for everything.
Oh, shit! That's another one of those economic truisms that our community organizer-in-chief would not be aware of, and his court clowns are just as oblivious.

This is, in fact, an oft repeated myth. Demand is a far more relevant factor in setting prices, than is production costs. Most pricing usually allows for a very comfortable profit margin as it is. The slight increase in minimum wage will not significantly effect the profit margin of most goods. However, significant increases in pricing is likely to effect demand for the product, which will result in less overall money being made by the company.

Another minimum wage earner who knows it all. Have you ever run a business? No. If you price your product beyond demand, and demand declines, you end up with less profit. Whether the left admits it, or not, profit is the motivating factor.

The left is well aware of the fact that business is only motivated by profit, that's why we find it perplexing that righties seem to think business is motivated by the benevolent ends of job creation.

If I will not earn a profit, I will not offer the service/goods. If the price I have to charge to cover my cost, including the cost of labor, will not result in an acceptable profit, I will not comply with government demands. I will: not hire unskilled labor, dismiss less skilled labor, demand more for the good/service provided (increasing price overall), or simply not hire or fire unskilled workers.

What if I said I didn't care one bit what you in particular would do, but would be very interested to read any empirical studies that show one way or another whether minimum wage increases decrease employment and if so, by how much ? Would it be too much to ask that my views on economic policy be based on sound data and rigorous study rather than just based on what some anonymous person on a message board would do in their particular situation?

 

[gallantwarrior]

The left is well aware of the fact that business is only motivated by profit, that's why we find it perplexing that righties seem to think business is motivated by the benevolent ends of job creation.

My curiosity is piqued. How would you change an economy motivated by profit?

 

[bayoubill]

The left is well aware of the fact that business is only motivated by profit, that's why we find it perplexing that righties seem to think business is motivated by the benevolent ends of job creation.

dunno where you lefties get the impression that we on the right believe that business is in any way motivated by benevolence...

it's all about profit... benevolence doesn't enter into the equation...


any right-thinking person (and when I say "right" in this regard, I don't mean "right" in the political sense, but rather any person who understands the basic laws of human self-interest, a.k.a. the laws of economics...) believes the following:

1. Business, whether it's a humble sole proprietor or a huge multi-national corporation, operates to maximize its return on its investment of time and money...

2. Business owners, whether they be a humble sole proprietor or a huge multi-national corporation, recognize that they need the services of good employees in order for their business to grow and prosper...

3. Business owners are willing to pay premium wages and benefits to keep employees who've shown themselves able to help keep the business thriving...

4. Business owners are often willing to make particularly valuable employees part-owners or even partners of the business in order to keep them from leaving the business...

5. Business owners, despite the best interests of their business but being human after all, may act overly benevolent towards under-performing employees... but such action is only at the risk of the health of the business... and the business may well suffer and possibly fail if the business owner takes such measures to the extreme...


btw... it's almost, but not quite, coincidental that right-thinking persons who understand economics are usually to the right side of the political spectrum...

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The left is well aware of the fact that business is only motivated by profit, that's why we find it perplexing that righties seem to think business is motivated by the benevolent ends of job creation.

My curiosity is piqued. How would you change an economy motivated by profit?

Change it for what?