Attention Atheists: How Was The Earth Created?

[Care4all]

We see quite a few threads from the Religion bashers about how ridiculous it is to believe that God created the Universe. "How can you believe a magical Man in the Sky?" they all ask.

OK then. Here's your chance to prove to me that God didn't create the Universe. Please post any argument you may have or like that proves your ideas.

First of all, proof is for math and alcohol. Science doesn't prove things, it reaches provisional conclusions based on the preponderance of available evidence.

Now, if you are asking to be educated in the evidential support for the current scientific understanding of the manner in which the earth was formed, I will be delighted to provide it to you in considerable detail. Is that what you're looking for? Or are you just here to play silly word games by insisting on standards of proof that are impossible to attain in the real world? I've encountered entirely too many people engaging in the latter in these discussions to start in wasting time with another one so if that's it just say so and I'll wander off somewhere else I can be marginally productive.

just get to the bottom line....does anything in the current scientific understanding of how the universe and earth were formed definitively rule out that it was created by something? Is there anything that absolutely rules out a god? Just show that stuff instead of going in to a whole rigmarole....it would address the original post most concisely, I think?

care

 

[gcomeau]

just get to the bottom line....does anything in the current scientific understanding of how the universe and earth were formed definitively rule out that it was created by something? Is there anything that absolutely rules out a god? Just show that stuff instead of going in to a whole rigmarole....it would address the original post most concisely, I think?

I can't even conceive of how any scientific finding could definitively rule out either a statement so vague as "the universe was created by something" or one that involves a concept so ridiculously ill defined as "god" that also, just for good measure, appeals to the supernatural.

Are you at all familiar with the concept of falsifiability and it's importance to scientific inquiry?

 

[edthecynic]

We see quite a few threads from the Religion bashers about how ridiculous it is to believe that God created the Universe. "How can you believe a magical Man in the Sky?" they all ask.

OK then. Here's your chance to prove to me that God didn't create the Universe. Please post any argument you may have or like that proves your ideas.

First of all, proof is for math and alcohol. Science doesn't prove things, it reaches provisional conclusions based on the preponderance of available evidence.

Now, if you are asking to be educated in the evidential support for the current scientific understanding of the manner in which the earth was formed, I will be delighted to provide it to you in considerable detail. Is that what you're looking for? Or are you just here to play silly word games by insisting on standards of proof that are impossible to attain in the real world? I've encountered entirely too many people engaging in the latter in these discussions to start in wasting time with another one so if that's it just say so and I'll wander off somewhere else I can be marginally productive.

just get to the bottom line....does anything in the current scientific understanding of how the universe and earth were formed definitively rule out that it was created by something? Is there anything that absolutely rules out a god? Just show that stuff instead of going in to a whole rigmarole....it would address the original post most concisely, I think?

care

The FLoT says in essence that you can't get something from nothing, which begs the question, "What THING is God?"
The usual answer is God is not a thing, so creation by a God would violate the FLoT.
In essence, creation by a God would be, "No thing created everything from nothing." I hope that helps.

 

[KittenKoder]

First of all, proof is for math and alcohol. Science doesn't prove things, it reaches provisional conclusions based on the preponderance of available evidence.

Now, if you are asking to be educated in the evidential support for the current scientific understanding of the manner in which the earth was formed, I will be delighted to provide it to you in considerable detail. Is that what you're looking for? Or are you just here to play silly word games by insisting on standards of proof that are impossible to attain in the real world? I've encountered entirely too many people engaging in the latter in these discussions to start in wasting time with another one so if that's it just say so and I'll wander off somewhere else I can be marginally productive.

just get to the bottom line....does anything in the current scientific understanding of how the universe and earth were formed definitively rule out that it was created by something? Is there anything that absolutely rules out a god? Just show that stuff instead of going in to a whole rigmarole....it would address the original post most concisely, I think?

care

The FLoT says in essence that you can't get something from nothing, which begs the question, "What THING is God?"
The usual answer is God is not a thing, so creation by a God would violate the FLoT.
In essence, creation by a God would be, "No thing created everything from nothing." I hope that helps.

You make too many assumptions to cover. But think of it this way, the FLoT is based on our limited understanding of science, many laws have been modified and even completely discarded after they were proven.

 

[edthecynic]

just get to the bottom line....does anything in the current scientific understanding of how the universe and earth were formed definitively rule out that it was created by something? Is there anything that absolutely rules out a god? Just show that stuff instead of going in to a whole rigmarole....it would address the original post most concisely, I think?

care

The FLoT says in essence that you can't get something from nothing, which begs the question, "What THING is God?"
The usual answer is God is not a thing, so creation by a God would violate the FLoT.
In essence, creation by a God would be, "No thing created everything from nothing." I hope that helps.

You make too many assumptions to cover. But think of it this way, the FLoT is based on our limited understanding of science, many laws have been modified and even completely discarded after they were proven.

The FLoT is based on a repeatable experiment.

Please name the many proven Laws of Science that were "completely discarded after they were proven."

 

[Diuretic]

We see quite a few threads from the Religion bashers about how ridiculous it is to believe that God created the Universe. "How can you believe a magical Man in the Sky?" they all ask.

OK then. Here's your chance to prove to me that God didn't create the Universe. Please post any argument you may have or like that proves your ideas.

First of all, proof is for math and alcohol. Science doesn't prove things, it reaches provisional conclusions based on the preponderance of available evidence.

Now, if you are asking to be educated in the evidential support for the current scientific understanding of the manner in which the earth was formed, I will be delighted to provide it to you in considerable detail. Is that what you're looking for? Or are you just here to play silly word games by insisting on standards of proof that are impossible to attain in the real world? I've encountered entirely too many people engaging in the latter in these discussions to start in wasting time with another one so if that's it just say so and I'll wander off somewhere else I can be marginally productive.

just get to the bottom line....does anything in the current scientific understanding of how the universe and earth were formed definitively rule out that it was created by something? Is there anything that absolutely rules out a god? Just show that stuff instead of going in to a whole rigmarole....it would address the original post most concisely, I think?

care

I think the problem is that there are two different approaches being used. Science or the scientific method isn't going to rule anything in or out about the universe and whether or not it was created or was already there or whatever. I'm not knowledgeable in science so those who are will be able to explain it far better than me but if there are theories about what happened (and I think the Large Hadron Collider is going to be used to try and test some theories????) then they will be grounded in the scientific method.

The other approach that's used is human logic (which is a human artifact) and intuition, at play in a metaphysical examination of the universe and how it got to be the universe. I have to admit that that one stumps me. I need someone to explain to me how human intuitive thinking, even using the most profound logic, can prove - and I mean prove, not merely speculate about - how the universe was created, if it was indeed created or if it has always been there and so on. They are sophisticated mind games but in the end, pointless.

 

[John Lemmon]

just get to the bottom line....does anything in the current scientific understanding of how the universe and earth were formed definitively rule out that it was created by something

That's why being agnostic is really the only logical position to have. In science, in general, nothing is ruled out, and the search continues. With religion, their truth has already been established, and the search for anything is over. So to be afflicted with religion is to have a closed mind, where usually evolution doesn't even exist, and nothing ever changes.

 

[Care4all]

Can someone simply explain to me what science's theory is on how and why the big bang happened in the first place or exactly what happened in the big bang....? What went bang? I realize there was really no bang as far as noise is concerned but what went bang as far as the explosion and spreading out of the universe and why or how galaxies formed within the universe? Can anyone explain how our galaxy came to be different than others... where in our galaxy there is planet earth which can support life and so far no others seem to do such?

Can you please explain to me scientifically, how life began on Earth...what happened? What happened here that could not and did not happen to other planets that made Earth different and capable of creating life and evolving life vs the other planets?

Did we always have our 24 hour days?

Did we always have our tilt angle? If it was changed, how?

Did we always have our moon to shine at night and it's gravitational pull on our tides?

Have we always been this distance from the sun?

Have all the planets in our galaxy always been positioned as they are, to our sun?

What is gravity?

and I could ask a thousand other questions too! But if anyone knowledgeable in Science explain some of the things I asked above I would appreciate it.

Care

 

[John Lemmon]

Care, your google page don't work?

 

[dilloduck]

just get to the bottom line....does anything in the current scientific understanding of how the universe and earth were formed definitively rule out that it was created by something

That's why being agnostic is really the only logical position to have. In science, in general, nothing is ruled out, and the search continues. With religion, their truth has already been established, and the search for anything is over. So to be afflicted with religion is to have a closed mind, where usually evolution doesn't even exist, and nothing ever changes.

wrong---some creationists are very open as to HOW a god created the earth and will be glad to concede that it was made in a form that was intended to grow and change with time.

 

[Diuretic]

just get to the bottom line....does anything in the current scientific understanding of how the universe and earth were formed definitively rule out that it was created by something

That's why being agnostic is really the only logical position to have. In science, in general, nothing is ruled out, and the search continues. With religion, their truth has already been established, and the search for anything is over. So to be afflicted with religion is to have a closed mind, where usually evolution doesn't even exist, and nothing ever changes.

wrong---some creationists are very open as to HOW a god created the earth and will be glad to concede that it was made in a form that was intended to grow and change with time.

Yeah, only cos the cunning buggers can then get their opponent to concede the existence of a god

 

[Care4all]

just get to the bottom line....does anything in the current scientific understanding of how the universe and earth were formed definitively rule out that it was created by something

That's why being agnostic is really the only logical position to have. In science, in general, nothing is ruled out, and the search continues. With religion, their truth has already been established, and the search for anything is over. So to be afflicted with religion is to have a closed mind, where usually evolution doesn't even exist, and nothing ever changes.

The thing is MOST CHRISTIANS DO BELIEVE in evolution...and VERY FEW christians balk at Science.

The largest Christian Church, the Catholic church learned from their mistakes on butting heads with Science and actually officially apologized for what they did to Galileo and their stance now, is to support science....

And most Protestant dominations support Science as well....it is the VERY FEW, that are trying to Buck heads with the reality of Evolution.

Many religious, catholic and protestant and jewish and muslim and who knows who else, do not believe it has been PROVEN that we have evolved from apes, or the Chimp yet....and as far as i know it has NOT been proven yet, it is still a hypothesis and there still is not enough evidence, showing otherwise....the missing link of the evolution.

The Bible states that we were made out of the dust of the earth, as with ALL LIFE on earth and says that the plants and animals were BEFORE us, before we were formed they were formed...none of that contradicts the Science that has come forward about life's evolution on earth.

It is only when Man himself tries to put words in the Bible's mouth that were not there in the first place and the lack of understanding of what is there due to lost knowledge and the arrogance of the religious hierarchy itself that has gotten in the way of the truth in Science.

The Bible is sooooooooo generic in it's description of the Beginning...it is not a Science book and I have never viewed it as a Science book and it should not be viewed by anyone in my opinion, as a science book....

Care

 

[froggy]

You make a valid point, Mad Scientist, however, its not that valid. Here's why: evidence.

Although there is not enough evidence to prove that God didn't create the Earth as Genesis fails to describe, in a miraculous way. There is a lot of evidence that supports the current theories. There is NO evidence that supports God even exists.

evidence of big bang - Google Search

evidence of evolution - Google Search

planetary nebula - Google Search

evidence of origin of earth - Google Search

I don't hold any hope that you'll follow these links and read the information contained on the websites you would find there, but, were you to let go the dogma and take the information presented skeptically and simultaneously crediting the methods and motives of those who wish to better understand the physical universe, you could learn a thing or 5,000. But, I know, you find the Bible much more comfortable.

in all your presented theories that's all i see is theories if yours are proof why hasn't it happened again if gods been around forever why couldn't he have used this planet for many life forms over and over(such as the dinosaur age etc.)

 

[Care4all]

Care, your google page don't work?

I am trying out the new search engine Bing now! It's working out pretty good so far!

I actually know some of the answers to those questions I have posed. And in each case, the scientific answer does not contradict the short story version/myth of our creation in the Bible, of course, in my humble opinion....but i suppose that is because my mind, is opened to all possibilities!

I love this stuff and am glued to the tv whenever there is a show on about The Universe and it's creation....a good series has been on the History channel lately too!

Care

 

[rdean]

I know exactly how the earth was created. Before earth, there was this beautiful witch named "Glinda", because, as we all know, "only bad witches are ungly". She had magic wand with a shiny star tipping the end. She waved the wand and the earth and all it's people "shimmered" into being. At first, people didn't know what to eat so she made ribs and soft creamy cheese. The fossils in the ground are what's left of the ribs.

 

[rdean]

You make a valid point, Mad Scientist, however, its not that valid. Here's why: evidence.

Although there is not enough evidence to prove that God didn't create the Earth as Genesis fails to describe, in a miraculous way. There is a lot of evidence that supports the current theories. There is NO evidence that supports God even exists.

evidence of big bang - Google Search

evidence of evolution - Google Search

planetary nebula - Google Search

evidence of origin of earth - Google Search

I don't hold any hope that you'll follow these links and read the information contained on the websites you would find there, but, were you to let go the dogma and take the information presented skeptically and simultaneously crediting the methods and motives of those who wish to better understand the physical universe, you could learn a thing or 5,000. But, I know, you find the Bible much more comfortable.

in all your presented theories that's all i see is theories if yours are proof why hasn't it happened again if gods been around forever why couldn't he have used this planet for many life forms over and over(such as the dinosaur age etc.)

Because that's not what the Bible says.

 

[Care4all]

I know exactly how the earth was created. Before earth, there was this beautiful witch named "Glinda", because, as we all know, "only bad witches are ungly". She had magic wand with a shiny star tipping the end. She waved the wand and the earth and all it's people "shimmered" into being. At first, people didn't know what to eat so she made ribs and soft creamy cheese. The fossils in the ground are what's left of the ribs.

pathetic and totally immature argument, try again!

 

[Care4all]

You make a valid point, Mad Scientist, however, its not that valid. Here's why: evidence.

Although there is not enough evidence to prove that God didn't create the Earth as Genesis fails to describe, in a miraculous way. There is a lot of evidence that supports the current theories. There is NO evidence that supports God even exists.

evidence of big bang - Google Search

evidence of evolution - Google Search

planetary nebula - Google Search

evidence of origin of earth - Google Search

I don't hold any hope that you'll follow these links and read the information contained on the websites you would find there, but, were you to let go the dogma and take the information presented skeptically and simultaneously crediting the methods and motives of those who wish to better understand the physical universe, you could learn a thing or 5,000. But, I know, you find the Bible much more comfortable.

in all your presented theories that's all i see is theories if yours are proof why hasn't it happened again if gods been around forever why couldn't he have used this planet for many life forms over and over(such as the dinosaur age etc.)

Because that's not what the Bible says.

really? how do you figure such?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I don't hold any hope that you'll follow these links and read the information contained on the websites you would find there, but, were you to let go the dogma and take the information presented skeptically and simultaneously crediting the methods and motives of those who wish to better understand the physical universe, you could learn a thing or 5,000. But, I know, you find the Bible much more comfortable.

in all your presented theories that's all i see is theories if yours are proof why hasn't it happened again if gods been around forever why couldn't he have used this planet for many life forms over and over(such as the dinosaur age etc.)

That's right, these are theories. Theories developed because of evidence, theories accepted as valid (not valid proof, just valid theories) because of thousands of people whose investigations, research, experiments, and work do not contradict the theories. But, you're right, they are only theories. But there is evidence that supports these theories.

There is NO evidence of God.

However, that's all beside the point. We're talking Prime Mover, here and these theories don't address that at all. But, if one looks at Genesis, it doesn't read that God created the Earth causing a collapsing cloud of gas to eventually condense to the point that it became a star, and the material surrounding the star eventually formed into planets. Nor does Genesis speak of anything outside of the Earth, such as Mars, Jupiter, other Galaxies, etc. And, why must the Prime Mover be the Christian god or a supernatural god at all? Perhaps the Universe formed because that is the nature of the Universe and there is no reason or purpose for it? That is just as valid an idea as a supernatural God. In fact, in my opinion, it is more valid because I see in my everday life and in all my learning very little in the way of a grand purpose or design for anything that happens in the physical universe.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

in all your presented theories that's all i see is theories if yours are proof why hasn't it happened again if gods been around forever why couldn't he have used this planet for many life forms over and over(such as the dinosaur age etc.)

Because that's not what the Bible says.

really? how do you figure such?

Where in the Bible, Care, is there anything about God creating Dinosaurs or Woolly Mammoths or anything other than the animals that currently exist (excepting the ones which have since, after the writing of the Bible, gone extinct)?