atheists will love this.....

[Newby]

Kalam: you defend the muslim faith more reasonably and convincingly that any jew or xtian has ever defended their holy texts... Several oft-quoted passages I've encountered numerous times you have shown to be quotemined... It seems I need to reanalyze the koran in more detail, as my initial conclusions may not be as accurate as I believed...

PS- are the hadiths considered authoritarian in 'orthodox' islam?

I got a good laugh out of these comments. Thanks.

Classic case of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. How anyone who claims to be an athiest and can bitch and moan about Christianity but then embrace Islam and do it with a straight face is anyone's guess. But, highly amusing in any case.

 

[Newby]

kalam, nothing in your religion is true, just read the koran, it's all crap, written by a dude who was just trying to catch up to the bible (which is also a load of crap). Islam was invented to keep women down and treated like chattel. If it was really a religion of peace, you wouldn't have jihad, 72 ugly virgins... and you wouldn't be forcing your women to wear a black sheet over themselves in a desert country. That anyone would even marry off their 9 year old is just plain as sick as it gets.

Actually... the Koran is far better in its treatment of women than the Bible or Torah... actually (sounds odd in this day and age) it was the most progressive religious text (of the 'big three'). Compared to now, obviously it is archaic and sexist (IMO) but if one actually lived according to the Bible it would be FAR worse. It is just that there are so few die-hard Christians, while there seem to be many die-hard Muslims.


All religions (except maybe Taoism) are pretty violent, read the bible it's pretty colonialist and and sexist and violent and advocates slavery, says rape is ok... I mean come on, how many Christians treat their slaves according to the good book's rules? How many actually treat their children and wives according to its rules?

None that I've ever met.

Too bad they don't follow the Quran then when it comes to the treatment of their women, huh?

 

[JBeukema]

If the world got rid of science...then Atheism would die...and all modern civilization* with it.

Happened once before. We remember it as the Christian Dark Ages

A
Every religion is unprovable without godly intervention and that includes atheism.

HAHA- you're a fuckin' moron

Remember that before you get into a pointless 'my spaghetti monster is better than your God' thread.

Dude- stripper factories and beer volcanoes... sure beats white ropes and bowing at someone's feet

rare is the atheist who actually claims there is no God(s). That is an unscientific view-point and unprovable

Probabilities. To say there is no god is no different than t say there is no pink invisible elephant than cannot be felt standing atop FT's head w/ its trunk up his ass or that there are no pixies having an orgy in the garden. All evidence is to the negative



Newb: I never embraced islam, you idiot. I simply said that kalam makes more sense than the xtians when he defends his delusions and that my impression of the koran';s social teachings might have been inaccurate (unlike the Torah and Bible, I have not the koran cover-to-cover)

 

[Newby]

Newb: I never embraced islam, you idiot. I simply said that kalam makes more sense than the xtians when he defends his delusions and that my impression of the koran';s social teachings might have been inaccurate (unlike the Torah and Bible, I have not the koran cover-to-cover)

Based on your posts and knowledge of the Bible and Christianity in general, I'd say that you haven't read it cover to cover either. Or if you did, you didn't understand a word of what you read.

 

[k2skier]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

i wonder if you will be able to stay a non-believer.....

should also make sep of church and state an interesting topic.....

100% fear mongering BULLSHIT!

Fight to the death over who's invisible man in the sky is better, then atheists will rule the world.

I read a while back that Muslims will outnumber Christians in about 35 years if the current trend continues, so, most are not violent.

 

[JBeukema]

Based on your posts and knowledge of the Bible and Christianity in general, I'd say that you haven't read it cover to cover either. Or if you did, you didn't understand a word of what you read.

It's simple

Torah: Abraham changed his name and picked a single idol he likes best. Kill al non-Jews and take their virgin daughters as sex slaves. Conquer Canaan and the lands en route and commit mass genocide to wipe out all peoples in the way. This for the glory of El. There were two sects, one praising El and one praising YHWH- one was more militant than the other. Moses had to wipe out all dissent and then they could go back to raping, pillaging, and conquering like the barbarian horde they were. They founded ak kingdom and killed all who opposed them. David was their Alexander the Great, but his son loved foreign women and that pissed off their deity...

simple stuff...

NT: the on-Jews wanted in on it to, the the race stuff was cast aside. They were told to be happy good little slaves and servants because they could never overcome the roman authorities. Only 2 disciples think jesus was born of a virgin, or maybe the others didn't think it was important. Jesus had tome travel as a baby, so he could escape Herod and still make it to the census.Noone's sure whether jesus was in the tomb or whether there were guards- or when he first returned they didn't rehearse their stories well and after waiting so many years to write it all down, they forgot the script. towards the end, one book was written that promised Rome and the others would pay, so people could take comfort in the thought of their enemies suffering the worst possible fate for eternity. Later, a few kings, bishops etc at various times chose which books best fit their agenda and came up w. a canon- which was later edited and translated to fit the needs of the English king James. The book is the divinely inspired word of a perfect being which is why it has never been interpreted differently, led to confusion, or lead to splits in the body of christ ever...


'bout sums it up

oh, I forgot- god waited until 2000 bce to reveal himself to a barbarian tribe he thought was pretty cool

 

[Newby]

Yeah, you're a regular religious scholar...

 

[JBeukema]

Yeah, you're a regular religious scholar...

Scripture in the KHL supports every single thing I have said

 

[Newby]

Yeah, you're a regular religious scholar...

Scripture in the KHL supports every single thing I have said

Do you have a sense of humor?

 

[JBeukema]

Not about racist religions that worship evil gods and are responsible for many of the greatest ills and evils o befall mankind for thousands of years

 

[Newby]

Nevermind....

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Classic case of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. How anyone who claims to be an athiest and can bitch and moan about Christianity but then embrace Islam and do it with a straight face is anyone's guess. But, highly amusing in any case.

Because to non-believers both religions are equally without merit and their adherents equally good and bad. Kalam is a reasonable and logically-minded believer. We non-believers at least can respect that even if we don't understand it. Kalam also never preaches or uses the Quran as the end all be all of concrete evidence for stupid behavior like the extremists of both religiouns do.

And this isn't 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend", its more like: "Hey, I'm an agnostic and I can change my mind when I am exposed to new information because, unlike my religious peers, I don't dogmatically believe in arbitrary rules and ancient texts or imaginary creators or long-deceased saviors or prophets or miracles that don't happen anymore, etc. etc. etc."

Its an advantage we non-believers have over you dogmatics.

 

[Kalam]

kalam, nothing in your religion is true, just read the koran, it's all crap, written by a dude who was just trying to catch up to the bible (which is also a load of crap). Islam was invented to keep women down and treated like chattel.

During the time of ignorance, Arabian women, with few exceptions, were chattel. Women, like slaves, were sold by their families into marriage. Marriages could only be terminated if the husband willed it. Wives were, like all property, inheritable. Female (and in some cases, male) children were typically seen as a financial liability and a curse, so infanticide was commonplace. Islam ended these practices by recognizing the rights of women as human beings and the necessity of treating them as such. Property rights were recognized, women could decide themselves to divorce, infanticide was banned, etc.

O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to take women as heritage against (their) will. Nor should you straiten them by taking part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty of manifest indecency. And treat them kindly. Then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it. - 4:19

And covet not that by which Allah has made some of you excel others. For men is the benefit of what they earn. And for women is the benefit of what they earn. And ask Allah of His grace. Surely Allah is ever Knower of all things. - 4:32

Say: Come! I will recite what your Lord has forbidden to you: Associate naught with Him and do good to parents and slay not your children for (fear of) poverty - We will provide for you and for them - and draw not nigh to indecencies, open or secret, and kill not the soul which Allah has made sacred except in the course of justice. This He enjoins upon you that you may understand. - 6:51​

If it was really a religion of peace, you wouldn't have jihad,

Why? Are we to willingly accept aggression and persecution and not attempt to repel our assailants as any rational people would?

72 ugly virgins...

Which part of the Qur'an mentions 72 virgins? The Qur'an describes every believer returning to a sexually and morally pure state upon death.

and you wouldn't be forcing your women to wear a black sheet over themselves in a desert country.

You are incorrectly assuming that the tenets of Islam are congruous with those of the Wahhabi heresy. The Qur'an simply tells believing men and women to be modest in gaze and in dress.

That anyone would even marry off their 9 year old is just plain as sick as it gets.

In this society, perhaps, but why is a betrothal at age 9 (at youngest) in 7th century Arabia reprehensible? In Islam, women can file for divorce and consummation of the marriage does not occur until both husband and wife have reached majority.

 

[JBeukema]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Coloradomtnman again

dammit...

 

[JBeukema]

. Wives were, like all property, inheritable

Kinda like a man's brother marrying his wide when he dies, eh?

If it was really a religion of peace, you wouldn't have jihad,

You mean like the Inquisition, witch burnings, and Divine Kingships of the xtians? Amazing how similar these religions are, being both based on the book of the jews

You are incorrectly assuming that the tenets of Islam are congruous with those of the Wahhabi heresy

.

Who? Need more info

 

[Kalam]

Who? Need more info

Wahhabism, the state religion of Saudi Arabia, is heretical. They believe in an anthropomorphic God and interpret the entire Qur'an literally. The book itself explicitly says that it is largely allegorical, and that associating God with man or anything physical is shirk - the sin of worshiping the non-divine (people, things, concepts) or associating them with God.

They've also been heretical in their conduct. They destroyed the gravesite of Fatima, daughter of the prophet, and intended to destroy the prophet's gravesite itself because they believed that its existence would cause others to worship him in God's stead. They carried out massacres of Muslims when they took control of certain cities, labeled those who refused to accept their tenets kafireen, unbelievers, and restricted their access to mosques and holy sites in Makkah and Madinah. Moreover, they endorsed hereditary rule, and went so far as to claim that the Al Saud dynasty had the exclusive right to rule over the Arabian peninsula.

Here's a lengthy article on the subject I found:
Wahabis

 

[AllieBaba]

Then you peace-loving Muslims better get together and straighten them out, by golly.

 

[Kalam]

Then you peace-loving Muslims better get together and straighten them out, by golly.

Lurk more.

 

[Anguille]

Atheism is increasing faster than the Muslim faith is. But regardless that is irrelevant.

The point is that Atheism being built upon logic and reason...can't be undermined by a religious faith...unless by physical force or by law.

History has shown that regardless of religious control Atheism still remains...because of the simple concept that god cannot be proved physically through the scientific method. If the world got rid of science...then Atheism would die...and all modern civilization* with it.

*Meaning the world would turn Armish like

There are lots of closet atheists out there.

 

[dilloduck]

Atheism is increasing faster than the Muslim faith is. But regardless that is irrelevant.

The point is that Atheism being built upon logic and reason...can't be undermined by a religious faith...unless by physical force or by law.

History has shown that regardless of religious control Atheism still remains...because of the simple concept that god cannot be proved physically through the scientific method. If the world got rid of science...then Atheism would die...and all modern civilization* with it.

*Meaning the world would turn Armish like

There are lots of closet atheists out there.

That's true---my psychotic friends all hear atheists talking in their heads.