Atheism; An Intellectual Dead End

[hobelim]

I have never said anything about being seen. You seem to think that I have been demanding that God be visible. there are many invisible things that we can detect, and measure: gases, microbes, quantum matter, gravity, just to name a few. However, God has never been detected, nor has any scientific method to verify, or measure God ever been developed. As soon as it is, and there is objective evidence to verify the existence of God, let me know, let me study the verifiable, and repeatable results, and I'll be happy to revise my position.

What objective evidence could there be of a supernatural being? Are you really expecting some?

Stop playing games already.

You believe that a three in one mangod performed supernatural demonstrations of divine power in full view of believers and unbelievers alike.

If even one so called miracle of Jesus was supernatural how is it possible that anyone would not have believed? With so many believers out there how is it possible that not even the one with the greatest faith can make a blind man see?

C'mon man, think.

You can do it!

They did and still do today. A significant percentage of the world's population do believe. Not bad for a criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day after only a 3 1/2 year ministry.

I'm not saying anything negative about Jesus. And I am not criticizing nor condemning the faith of believers in Jesus.

I am just pointing out that you all have the whole damn story all wrong.

Honest men can have honest differences of opinion.

Sure but if you are a believer, getting the story right is a matter of life and death.

 

[ding]

What objective evidence could there be of a supernatural being? Are you really expecting some?

Stop playing games already.

You believe that a three in one mangod performed supernatural demonstrations of divine power in full view of believers and unbelievers alike.

If even one so called miracle of Jesus was supernatural how is it possible that anyone would not have believed? With so many believers out there how is it possible that not even the one with the greatest faith can make a blind man see?

C'mon man, think.

You can do it!

They did and still do today. A significant percentage of the world's population do believe. Not bad for a criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day after only a 3 1/2 year ministry.

I'm not saying anything negative about Jesus. And I am not criticizing nor condemning the faith of believers in Jesus.

I am just pointing out that you all have the whole damn story all wrong.

Honest men can have honest differences of opinion.

Sure but if you are a believer, getting the story right is a matter of life and death.

I don't see it that way.

 

[Czernobog]

Ummmm...okay? I have no idea what your point here is, or how it relates to my assertion that you are quoting, but, okay.

.

Ummmm...okay? I have no idea what your point here is, or how it relates to my assertion that you are quoting, but, okay.

the genome of life is physical in a different dimension than the physiology it produces. and I suppose you still disbelieve germs exist because you can not see them ...

I have never said anything about being seen. You seem to think that I have been demanding that God be visible. there are many invisible things that we can detect, and measure: gases, microbes, quantum matter, gravity, just to name a few. However, God has never been detected, nor has any scientific method to verify, or measure God ever been developed. As soon as it is, and there is objective evidence to verify the existence of God, let me know, let me study the verifiable, and repeatable results, and I'll be happy to revise my position.

What objective evidence could there be of a supernatural being? Are you really expecting some?

How can something be outside of everything?

Easy. We are inside the box. What's not in the box is outside of the box.

Your Brain Is the Universe -- Part 1 | The Huffington Post

Maybe you are inside a box. I guess that explains a lot. I do not exist inside a box. I reside in an ever-expanding universe that encompasses everything in existence. By definition, nothing can exist beyond a universe that encompasses everything in existence. If a "supernatural" entity exists, it is part of existence, thus it is a part of nature which encompasses everything that exists, so it is not, in fact, supernatural. Supernatural, like God, is one of those words that we invented that actually describes a thing that does not exist.

 

[hobelim]

Stop playing games already.

You believe that a three in one mangod performed supernatural demonstrations of divine power in full view of believers and unbelievers alike.

If even one so called miracle of Jesus was supernatural how is it possible that anyone would not have believed? With so many believers out there how is it possible that not even the one with the greatest faith can make a blind man see?

C'mon man, think.

You can do it!

They did and still do today. A significant percentage of the world's population do believe. Not bad for a criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day after only a 3 1/2 year ministry.

I'm not saying anything negative about Jesus. And I am not criticizing nor condemning the faith of believers in Jesus.

I am just pointing out that you all have the whole damn story all wrong.

Honest men can have honest differences of opinion.

Sure but if you are a believer, getting the story right is a matter of life and death.

I don't see it that way.

So, you really don't believe in the parting of the sheep and goats, heaven and hell, eternal life and eternal death and all that jazz..

Who knew?

Rising from the dead and ascending into the kingdom of heaven is about as easy or difficult as it is for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

The least you can do is try.

Lets face it, no one knows better than you that your own openly professed beliefs and faith in the ridiculous are the real intellectual dead end.

 

[ding]

.
the genome of life is physical in a different dimension than the physiology it produces. and I suppose you still disbelieve germs exist because you can not see them ...

I have never said anything about being seen. You seem to think that I have been demanding that God be visible. there are many invisible things that we can detect, and measure: gases, microbes, quantum matter, gravity, just to name a few. However, God has never been detected, nor has any scientific method to verify, or measure God ever been developed. As soon as it is, and there is objective evidence to verify the existence of God, let me know, let me study the verifiable, and repeatable results, and I'll be happy to revise my position.

What objective evidence could there be of a supernatural being? Are you really expecting some?

How can something be outside of everything?

Easy. We are inside the box. What's not in the box is outside of the box.

Your Brain Is the Universe -- Part 1 | The Huffington Post

Maybe you are inside a box. I guess that explains a lot. I do not exist inside a box. I reside in an ever-expanding universe that encompasses everything in existence. By definition, nothing can exist beyond a universe that encompasses everything in existence. If a "supernatural" entity exists, it is part of existence, thus it is a part of nature which encompasses everything that exists, so it is not, in fact, supernatural. Supernatural, like God, is one of those words that we invented that actually describes a thing that does not exist.

The painter is not the painting.

 

[ding]

They did and still do today. A significant percentage of the world's population do believe. Not bad for a criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day after only a 3 1/2 year ministry.

I'm not saying anything negative about Jesus. And I am not criticizing nor condemning the faith of believers in Jesus.

I am just pointing out that you all have the whole damn story all wrong.

Honest men can have honest differences of opinion.

Sure but if you are a believer, getting the story right is a matter of life and death.

I don't see it that way.

So, you really don't believe in the parting of the sheep and goats, heaven and hell, eternal life and eternal death and all that jazz..

Who knew?

Rising from the dead and ascending into the kingdom of heaven is about as easy or difficult as it is for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

The least you can do is try.

Lets face it, no one knows better than you that your own openly professed beliefs and faith in the ridiculous are the real intellectual dead end.

Sure I do. Maybe just not like you think I do.

No one is asking you to have these beliefs.

I don't believe that anyone who actively seeks to know God will ever be intellectually dead.

 

[hobelim]

I'm not saying anything negative about Jesus. And I am not criticizing nor condemning the faith of believers in Jesus.

I am just pointing out that you all have the whole damn story all wrong.

Honest men can have honest differences of opinion.

Sure but if you are a believer, getting the story right is a matter of life and death.

I don't see it that way.

So, you really don't believe in the parting of the sheep and goats, heaven and hell, eternal life and eternal death and all that jazz..

Who knew?

Rising from the dead and ascending into the kingdom of heaven is about as easy or difficult as it is for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

The least you can do is try.

Lets face it, no one knows better than you that your own openly professed beliefs and faith in the ridiculous are the real intellectual dead end.

Sure I do. Maybe just not you think I do. No one is asking you to have these beliefs. I believe that anyone who actively seeks to know God will ever be intellectually dead.

Pssst!

If you are not already with God and if God is not already with you, you are already dead.

 

[ding]

Honest men can have honest differences of opinion.

Sure but if you are a believer, getting the story right is a matter of life and death.

I don't see it that way.

So, you really don't believe in the parting of the sheep and goats, heaven and hell, eternal life and eternal death and all that jazz..

Who knew?

Rising from the dead and ascending into the kingdom of heaven is about as easy or difficult as it is for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

The least you can do is try.

Lets face it, no one knows better than you that your own openly professed beliefs and faith in the ridiculous are the real intellectual dead end.

Sure I do. Maybe just not you think I do. No one is asking you to have these beliefs. I believe that anyone who actively seeks to know God will ever be intellectually dead.

Pssst!

If you are not already with God and if God is not already with you, you are already dead.

Then I must certainly be alive.

 

[hobelim]

Sure but if you are a believer, getting the story right is a matter of life and death.

I don't see it that way.

So, you really don't believe in the parting of the sheep and goats, heaven and hell, eternal life and eternal death and all that jazz..

Who knew?

Rising from the dead and ascending into the kingdom of heaven is about as easy or difficult as it is for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

The least you can do is try.

Lets face it, no one knows better than you that your own openly professed beliefs and faith in the ridiculous are the real intellectual dead end.

Sure I do. Maybe just not you think I do. No one is asking you to have these beliefs. I believe that anyone who actively seeks to know God will ever be intellectually dead.

Pssst!

If you are not already with God and if God is not already with you, you are already dead.

Then I must certainly be alive.

Is that your way of saying that God is with you? Don't be shy.

Do you like to gamble? Stand up for the home team?

Why not call on your God for a divine demonstration of supernatural power over reality, something that bears the seal of the living God, something easy like turning water into wine?

Then, when nothing happens, I'll give it a go...

 

[ding]

I don't see it that way.

So, you really don't believe in the parting of the sheep and goats, heaven and hell, eternal life and eternal death and all that jazz..

Who knew?

Rising from the dead and ascending into the kingdom of heaven is about as easy or difficult as it is for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

The least you can do is try.

Lets face it, no one knows better than you that your own openly professed beliefs and faith in the ridiculous are the real intellectual dead end.

Sure I do. Maybe just not you think I do. No one is asking you to have these beliefs. I believe that anyone who actively seeks to know God will ever be intellectually dead.

Pssst!

If you are not already with God and if God is not already with you, you are already dead.

Then I must certainly be alive.

Is that your way of saying that God is with you? Don't be shy.

Do you like to gamble? Stand up for the home team?

Why not call on your God for a divine demonstration of supernatural power over reality, something that bears the seal of the living God, something easy like turning water into wine?

Then, when nothing happens, I'll give it a go...

Yes, I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me. It is written do not put the Lord your God to the test. Be my guest though.

 

[mamooth]

Yes, I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

What is that supposed to mean, "I can do all things in Christ"?

Exactly what powers does your belief give you? Concrete examples, something measurable in the real world.

 

[hobelim]

So, you really don't believe in the parting of the sheep and goats, heaven and hell, eternal life and eternal death and all that jazz..

Who knew?

Rising from the dead and ascending into the kingdom of heaven is about as easy or difficult as it is for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

The least you can do is try.

Lets face it, no one knows better than you that your own openly professed beliefs and faith in the ridiculous are the real intellectual dead end.

Sure I do. Maybe just not you think I do. No one is asking you to have these beliefs. I believe that anyone who actively seeks to know God will ever be intellectually dead.

Pssst!

If you are not already with God and if God is not already with you, you are already dead.

Then I must certainly be alive.

Is that your way of saying that God is with you? Don't be shy.

Do you like to gamble? Stand up for the home team?

Why not call on your God for a divine demonstration of supernatural power over reality, something that bears the seal of the living God, something easy like turning water into wine?

Then, when nothing happens, I'll give it a go...

Yes, I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me. It is written do not put the Lord your God to the test. Be my guest though.

Can't cop out that easy ding.

Its not about putting God to the test, its about putting you to the test. It is exactly what scripture requires.

Care to continue?

 

[Czernobog]

I have never said anything about being seen. You seem to think that I have been demanding that God be visible. there are many invisible things that we can detect, and measure: gases, microbes, quantum matter, gravity, just to name a few. However, God has never been detected, nor has any scientific method to verify, or measure God ever been developed. As soon as it is, and there is objective evidence to verify the existence of God, let me know, let me study the verifiable, and repeatable results, and I'll be happy to revise my position.

What objective evidence could there be of a supernatural being? Are you really expecting some?

How can something be outside of everything?

Easy. We are inside the box. What's not in the box is outside of the box.

Your Brain Is the Universe -- Part 1 | The Huffington Post

Maybe you are inside a box. I guess that explains a lot. I do not exist inside a box. I reside in an ever-expanding universe that encompasses everything in existence. By definition, nothing can exist beyond a universe that encompasses everything in existence. If a "supernatural" entity exists, it is part of existence, thus it is a part of nature which encompasses everything that exists, so it is not, in fact, supernatural. Supernatural, like God, is one of those words that we invented that actually describes a thing that does not exist.

The painter is not the painting.

Okay.

 

[BreezeWood]

So you are expecting to find natural evidence for a supernatural being?

I dispute the existence of a "supernatural" being. Nature is all-encompassing. As such, it is not possible for something to exist outside of everything.

.

Nature is all-encompassing. As such, it is not possible for something to exist outside of everything.

the genome of life is distinct from the physical nature it derives.

Ummmm...okay? I have no idea what your point here is, or how it relates to my assertion that you are quoting, but, okay.

.

Ummmm...okay? I have no idea what your point here is, or how it relates to my assertion that you are quoting, but, okay.

the genome of life is physical in a different dimension than the physiology it produces. and I suppose you still disbelieve germs exist because you can not see them ...

I have never said anything about being seen. You seem to think that I have been demanding that God be visible. there are many invisible things that we can detect, and measure: gases, microbes, quantum matter, gravity, just to name a few. However, God has never been detected, nor has any scientific method to verify, or measure God, or the effect God has on the universe, ever been developed. As soon as it is, and there is objective evidence to verify the existence of God, let me know, let me study the verifiable, and repeatable results, and I'll be happy to revise my position.

.
all good points without the religious ad hominem - there are other aspects to consider, the Triumph of Good vs Evil, the state of attained purity, the progression of evolution and best of all the demise of the desert religions that over time could very well lead to the metaphysical explanation atheist demand to satisfy their curiosity. just hopefully time does not pass them by.

 

[Mudda]

I dispute the existence of a "supernatural" being. Nature is all-encompassing. As such, it is not possible for something to exist outside of everything.

Dispute all you want. I have good reason for my belief. The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

God as in the god of the bible who was so pooped after 6 days that he needed a day off?

Creating is so much fun that sometimes you have to force yourself to take a break from it.

Does god have a long white beard too?

I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not.

I thought you knew all the unprovable stuff?

 

[Mudda]

.
seriously, do you have a link verifying the attributions for any of the figures within the 4th century compilation of your book. can you explain why not or why the history of christianity has been so one sided - why you are so vehemently opposed against people making their own choices that you attempt to write laws and other means to oppress them -

why does your religion lend itself entirely to the politics of hatred as demonstrated throughout history. fearing a free Spirit so much as having a need to kill them ...

Apparently I have more than you do. According to you, you have nothing.

.

Apparently I have more than you do. According to you, you have nothing.

you have the deaths of innocent people as the reality of your agenda disguised as a religion.


According to you ...

that is according to bing ... the righteous 4th century inquisitor.

The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever, Isaiah 40.8

Did god talk in English?

We speak in Italian.

So you don't know. Got it.

 

[ding]

Yes, I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

What is that supposed to mean, "I can do all things in Christ"?

Exactly what powers does your belief give you? Concrete examples, something measurable in the real world.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

 

[ding]

Apparently I have more than you do. According to you, you have nothing.

.

Apparently I have more than you do. According to you, you have nothing.

you have the deaths of innocent people as the reality of your agenda disguised as a religion.


According to you ...

that is according to bing ... the righteous 4th century inquisitor.

The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever, Isaiah 40.8

Did god talk in English?

We speak in Italian.

So you don't know. Got it.

To be fair, I don't speak it very well, so don't blame Him.

 

[Mudda]

So you are expecting to find natural evidence for a supernatural being?

I dispute the existence of a "supernatural" being. Nature is all-encompassing. As such, it is not possible for something to exist outside of everything.

Dispute all you want. I have good reason for my belief. The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

Good for you. You have your beliefs. They are entirely unproven proven, but you have your beliefs. Just quit stating your beliefs as if they are facts. They aren't.

Your belief that there is no god isn't proven either. So cut it out as well.

*Sigh* I swear you are like a broken record. God does not exist is not a fact. It is a negative assertion. It is the rational presumption in the absence of objective evidence to the contrary. Nothing more, nothing less. If you, or Ding, or anyone else would like to move me off of this default null position, all they have to do is present objective evidence to the existence of God, at which I time I will say, "Based on the evidence, God exists," Until then, I will continue to maintain my rational null presumption.

You've built yourself a strawman position that your assumptions don't have to be proven. You could say that given the lack of evidence, that god has not yet been proven, but to say that there is no god period is like saying before the discovery of gravity, that there is no gravity.
Now, I'm not agnostic on every question you're going to ask, but it seem seems to me that at this point in time, it is illogical to discount an external force (at least influencing or helping) in the creation of the universe.

 

[ding]

Dispute all you want. I have good reason for my belief. The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

God as in the god of the bible who was so pooped after 6 days that he needed a day off?

Creating is so much fun that sometimes you have to force yourself to take a break from it.

Does god have a long white beard too?

I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not.

I thought you knew all the unprovable stuff?

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.