CDZ Are RW's safe in arguing OUR ideas are proven and the LW's are all un/dis-proven?

[80zephyr]

If you are taught by a liberal, chances are you will lean that way yourself. Most teachers are liberal. What result would you expect?

Mark

Were you taught by a liberal?

No. I'm 64 and was taught by Catholic nuns.

Mark

So I guess not all teachers are liberal. Why do you think they are most teachers are liberal? I seems most educators are moderates. Unfortunately for the GOP, they have taken some very anti-educator positions.

Hmm. I could see your link, and raise you a link, but what purpose would it serve? I contend that most evidence shows that teachers are more liberal than conservative.

As for my own experience, I would say that the great majority of teachers in the 1960's were conservative, and can't be compared to today's teachers.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

Maybe they don't have a hidden agenda? Maybe they actually mean what they say and it is the GOP that lie. The vast majority of Dems don't want open borders and unlimited immigration even though that is what the GOP claims.

It is clear thru their actions that this is what the Democratic party wants.

Mark

Which actions are those? Not the one where they voted billions for border security.

Do you think the pittance that they voted on shows they want border security? Its like saying that voting for a billion dollar military bill means we are pro military.

Add to that the fact that already some candidates have come out against any border walls and ICE, and it tells you how they really feel.

Mark

 

[alang1216]

Hmm. I could see your link, and raise you a link, but what purpose would it serve? I contend that most evidence shows that teachers are more liberal than conservative.

As for my own experience, I would say that the great majority of teachers in the 1960's were conservative, and can't be compared to today's teachers.

Mark

Spoken like someone who was unable to find any evidence to back up his contention.

 

[80zephyr]

I doubt the politics of an institution play much of a roll in where students choose to go to school.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

Hmm. I could see your link, and raise you a link, but what purpose would it serve? I contend that most evidence shows that teachers are more liberal than conservative.

As for my own experience, I would say that the great majority of teachers in the 1960's were conservative, and can't be compared to today's teachers.

Mark

Spoken like someone who was unable to find any evidence to back up his contention.

Please. Evidence is easy to find. Its just useless. We can play "dueling links" all day if you want to.

Today’s Lesson from America’s Teachers: Vote Obama! | National Review

At last year’s convention almost three-fourths of delegates voted to endorse President Obama for re-election, citing, in the words of NEA director of government relations Mary Kusler, “the incredible legacy and vision of this current administration.” The vote marked the earliest endorsement in a presidential cycle in NEA history (a history that has been staunchly Democratic: The organization has never backed a Republican for president).

Mark

 

[alang1216]

Maybe they don't have a hidden agenda? Maybe they actually mean what they say and it is the GOP that lie. The vast majority of Dems don't want open borders and unlimited immigration even though that is what the GOP claims.

It is clear thru their actions that this is what the Democratic party wants.

Mark

Which actions are those? Not the one where they voted billions for border security.

Do you think the pittance that they voted on shows they want border security? Its like saying that voting for a billion dollar military bill means we are pro military.

Add to that the fact that already some candidates have come out against any border walls and ICE, and it tells you how they really feel.

Mark

How many billions in a pittance?

Both Dems and GOP have their fringe elements. David Duke, a former Republican Louisiana State Representative, is an avowed white supremacist and convicted crook. I guess you feel he is representative of all the GOP?

 

[80zephyr]

That assumes all other variables were constant. Unfortunately for you, they were not. Therefore, the fact that more Democrats hold a piece of paper that says they know this or that, is utterly meaningless without further evidence.

Ergo, standing in a garage does not make me a car. Having 4 wheels and an internal combustion engine would be strong evidence that I am though.

I am reminded, once again, of what a former instructor told my class on the first day. He said we would first learn how things were supposed to work, then we would go into a more "real world" environment to see how they really do work. Much like going to college, getting a degree, then you go get a job and find out that much of the theoretical knowledge you gained was utterly useless without "real world" experience to guide when to use what information.

If you really what to know how "smart" people lean, politically, it would be fare more beneficial to use career experience as your guide, not some piece of scrap paper.

So you don't like the answer so you change the question? If you take your car to a garage and you get a paper that says it passes inspection, there is a very good chance it is a car.

So what kind of career experience do you suggest? Are coal miners smarter than lawyers? I'll even make it easy, you can start here.

I think you are missing the point. You are suggesting that people with a shared similar experience (college), tend to lean a particular way politically. Could it be that it is a result of the way colleges present information? Could it be that people who are interested in professions requiring a degree are predisposed to said political leanings? Could it be that a college education says absolutely nothing about what a person would otherwise think politically? These are all variables that are rarely, if ever addressed in such discussions. Are you willing to address them?

As to what career experience I suggest, well, for starters one could look at a given profession and break it down further by years in said profession. Or gender, ethnicity, marital status, age, or any number of other demographics. Then compare that to other professions in the same demographic. Yet it is rarely done, at least on this forum.

I only posted what polls have shown about the leanings of the college educated. I offered no speculations, only facts. If you think you know the reasons please share but include some real data not just what your gut says. There is too much of that here already.

I am not attempting to further any agenda, or refute any facts. I am simply calling into question whether or not your facts actually confirm what you seem to be saying they confirm. I am further suggesting that using a relatively vague metric, such as college education, as a delineation point is a questionable tactic. That is not to say it is necessarily wrong, just that it is questionable because of its vagueness. It would be akin to claiming that because group A is college educated and does X, it is because they know something that group B does not, assuming group B does not do X. In reality the fact that groups A and B do different things, could (maybe even likely) be due to something completely unconnected with educational level.

I think it is irrefutable that there is a correlation between education and political party preference. What the causation is, on the other hand, we can only guess at.

The evidence shows there is. So, I agree. As to the cause, while we don't know, we do know that college graduates are becoming more and more liberal. So, are we now saying that people who graduated college years ago, and were conservative were/are stupid, while those that graduate today are the intelligent ones?

I hope not.

Why Are Highly Educated Americans Getting More Liberal?

In 1994, 7 percent of post-grads were "consistently liberal," and 1 percent of people with high school educations or less were — not much of a difference. Today, the gap is 25 points wide — 31 percent of people with post-grad educations are consistently liberal, compared to 5 percent of those with high school educations or less.

The same kind of change just hasn't happened on the conservative side.

Split it out by party, and the shift is even starker. Among the post-grad set, more than half of Democrats and Democratic-leaners today are "consistently liberal," up from fewer than one-in-five in 1994. Likewise, among college grads, it jumped from 12 to 47.

Mark

 

[alang1216]

Please. Evidence is easy to find. Its just useless. We can play "dueling links" all day if you want to.

Today’s Lesson from America’s Teachers: Vote Obama! | National Review

At last year’s convention almost three-fourths of delegates voted to endorse President Obama for re-election, citing, in the words of NEA director of government relations Mary Kusler, “the incredible legacy and vision of this current administration.” The vote marked the earliest endorsement in a presidential cycle in NEA history (a history that has been staunchly Democratic: The organization has never backed a Republican for president).

Mark

You missed the mark. As you can tell from my link, teachers are mostly moderates. They vote overwhelmingly Dem out of self-preservation since the GOP has consistently targeted them and their union at all levels of government.

 

[80zephyr]

Maybe they don't have a hidden agenda? Maybe they actually mean what they say and it is the GOP that lie. The vast majority of Dems don't want open borders and unlimited immigration even though that is what the GOP claims.

It is clear thru their actions that this is what the Democratic party wants.

Mark

Which actions are those? Not the one where they voted billions for border security.

Do you think the pittance that they voted on shows they want border security? Its like saying that voting for a billion dollar military bill means we are pro military.

Add to that the fact that already some candidates have come out against any border walls and ICE, and it tells you how they really feel.

Mark

How many billions in a pittance?

Both Dems and GOP have their fringe elements. David Duke, a former Republican Louisiana State Representative, is an avowed white supremacist and convicted crook. I guess you feel he is representative of all the GOP?

When your defense budget is 700 billion dollars, a billion is a pittance. It is not a "fringe element" of the Democratic party that wants open borders, its most of them. This link shows that what the Democrats mean by controlling the border is to process people into the country in an orderly fashion, and thats it.

Democrats and Open Borders: The Budget Is the Policy | National Review

The Democratic leadership may be trying to keep its distance from the hard Left’s comically absurd Green New Deal, but it has embraced the “Abolish ICE” agenda. The Washington Post report that Rich linked to makes clear that the Democratic budget negotiators, while shying away from simply guillotining the agency immediately, as their party’s Jacobins have demanded, have simply adopted a different approach to the same goal — starving ICE’s immigration-enforcement functions.

Wall funding hasn’t even been a major issue in the ongoing talks because, as the Post put it, the “White House had begun to signal flexibility on that issue.” Instead,“throughout the talks, Democrats had also been focused on limiting ICE’s ability to detain unauthorized immigrants.”

This is clear from the summary of the Democratic proposal at the beginning of negotiations: Cut the number of detention beds, abolish family detention, and cap detention “associated with interior enforcement” to the level at the tail end of the Obama administration — a level so low that ICE would be forced to release criminals and perhaps even violate the law regarding the kinds of deportable aliens whose detention is mandatory.

The increases sought by Democrats are designed to turn ICE (and the Border Patrol) into a welcome wagon for illegal aliens: Additional Health Service Corps staff, additional Victims Assistance specialists, more detention-facility inspections, “more efficient transportation, food and other consumables,” and a big expansion of “alternatives to detention” such as ankle monitors (even though nearly 30 percent of border infiltrators with kids cut off their monitors shortly after being released). What’s more, DHS’s in-house ACLU, the Office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, also gets a big increase, as does the customs half of ICE.

Oh, and no fencing is allowed anywhere near the National Butterfly Center in south Texas.

Implementation of the Democratic proposal would, among other things, dramatically increase the rapidly growing number of border infiltrators using children as a ticket to release into the interior. And people in Latin America are noticing; Gallup reports that “A full 5 million who are planning to move in the next 12 months say they are moving to the U.S.” If only one in five actually follow through, this will be a crisis on the scale of what we saw in Germany a few years ago. And there’s no reason to think the Democrats’ invitation to illegal immigration will only be accepted by people from Latin America — there’s already a growing number of Indians jumping the Mexican border and Gypsies from Europe bringing kids across the Canadian border as an illegal-immigration strategy.

The Democrats can deny all they want that they support open borders, but the budget is the policy, and open borders is where it leads.

Mark

 

[alang1216]

So you don't like the answer so you change the question? If you take your car to a garage and you get a paper that says it passes inspection, there is a very good chance it is a car.

So what kind of career experience do you suggest? Are coal miners smarter than lawyers? I'll even make it easy, you can start here.

I think you are missing the point. You are suggesting that people with a shared similar experience (college), tend to lean a particular way politically. Could it be that it is a result of the way colleges present information? Could it be that people who are interested in professions requiring a degree are predisposed to said political leanings? Could it be that a college education says absolutely nothing about what a person would otherwise think politically? These are all variables that are rarely, if ever addressed in such discussions. Are you willing to address them?

As to what career experience I suggest, well, for starters one could look at a given profession and break it down further by years in said profession. Or gender, ethnicity, marital status, age, or any number of other demographics. Then compare that to other professions in the same demographic. Yet it is rarely done, at least on this forum.

I only posted what polls have shown about the leanings of the college educated. I offered no speculations, only facts. If you think you know the reasons please share but include some real data not just what your gut says. There is too much of that here already.

I am not attempting to further any agenda, or refute any facts. I am simply calling into question whether or not your facts actually confirm what you seem to be saying they confirm. I am further suggesting that using a relatively vague metric, such as college education, as a delineation point is a questionable tactic. That is not to say it is necessarily wrong, just that it is questionable because of its vagueness. It would be akin to claiming that because group A is college educated and does X, it is because they know something that group B does not, assuming group B does not do X. In reality the fact that groups A and B do different things, could (maybe even likely) be due to something completely unconnected with educational level.

I think it is irrefutable that there is a correlation between education and political party preference. What the causation is, on the other hand, we can only guess at.

The evidence shows there is. So, I agree. As to the cause, while we don't know, we do know that college graduates are becoming more and more liberal. So, are we now saying that people who graduated college years ago, and were conservative were/are stupid, while those that graduate today are the intelligent ones?

I hope not.

Why Are Highly Educated Americans Getting More Liberal?

In 1994, 7 percent of post-grads were "consistently liberal," and 1 percent of people with high school educations or less were — not much of a difference. Today, the gap is 25 points wide — 31 percent of people with post-grad educations are consistently liberal, compared to 5 percent of those with high school educations or less.

The same kind of change just hasn't happened on the conservative side.

Split it out by party, and the shift is even starker. Among the post-grad set, more than half of Democrats and Democratic-leaners today are "consistently liberal," up from fewer than one-in-five in 1994. Likewise, among college grads, it jumped from 12 to 47.

Mark

Maybe... More education makes you less accepting of lies, spin, and "alternative facts" and better able to think for yourself?

 

[80zephyr]

Please. Evidence is easy to find. Its just useless. We can play "dueling links" all day if you want to.

Today’s Lesson from America’s Teachers: Vote Obama! | National Review

At last year’s convention almost three-fourths of delegates voted to endorse President Obama for re-election, citing, in the words of NEA director of government relations Mary Kusler, “the incredible legacy and vision of this current administration.” The vote marked the earliest endorsement in a presidential cycle in NEA history (a history that has been staunchly Democratic: The organization has never backed a Republican for president).

Mark

You missed the mark. As you can tell from my link, teachers are mostly moderates. They vote overwhelmingly Dem out of self-preservation since the GOP has consistently targeted them and their union at all levels of government.

Yes, most are unionized. I would like to get a definition of moderate from the group. Remember my story about the Democrats at the VFW?

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

I think you are missing the point. You are suggesting that people with a shared similar experience (college), tend to lean a particular way politically. Could it be that it is a result of the way colleges present information? Could it be that people who are interested in professions requiring a degree are predisposed to said political leanings? Could it be that a college education says absolutely nothing about what a person would otherwise think politically? These are all variables that are rarely, if ever addressed in such discussions. Are you willing to address them?

As to what career experience I suggest, well, for starters one could look at a given profession and break it down further by years in said profession. Or gender, ethnicity, marital status, age, or any number of other demographics. Then compare that to other professions in the same demographic. Yet it is rarely done, at least on this forum.

I only posted what polls have shown about the leanings of the college educated. I offered no speculations, only facts. If you think you know the reasons please share but include some real data not just what your gut says. There is too much of that here already.

I am not attempting to further any agenda, or refute any facts. I am simply calling into question whether or not your facts actually confirm what you seem to be saying they confirm. I am further suggesting that using a relatively vague metric, such as college education, as a delineation point is a questionable tactic. That is not to say it is necessarily wrong, just that it is questionable because of its vagueness. It would be akin to claiming that because group A is college educated and does X, it is because they know something that group B does not, assuming group B does not do X. In reality the fact that groups A and B do different things, could (maybe even likely) be due to something completely unconnected with educational level.

I think it is irrefutable that there is a correlation between education and political party preference. What the causation is, on the other hand, we can only guess at.

The evidence shows there is. So, I agree. As to the cause, while we don't know, we do know that college graduates are becoming more and more liberal. So, are we now saying that people who graduated college years ago, and were conservative were/are stupid, while those that graduate today are the intelligent ones?

I hope not.

Why Are Highly Educated Americans Getting More Liberal?

In 1994, 7 percent of post-grads were "consistently liberal," and 1 percent of people with high school educations or less were — not much of a difference. Today, the gap is 25 points wide — 31 percent of people with post-grad educations are consistently liberal, compared to 5 percent of those with high school educations or less.

The same kind of change just hasn't happened on the conservative side.

Split it out by party, and the shift is even starker. Among the post-grad set, more than half of Democrats and Democratic-leaners today are "consistently liberal," up from fewer than one-in-five in 1994. Likewise, among college grads, it jumped from 12 to 47.

Mark

Maybe... More education makes you less accepting of lies, spin, and "alternative facts" and better able to think for yourself?

I have a degree, and have had extensive training in logic. Maybe I'm just stupid?
Besides, a higher education in the past did not produce more liberals, according to my link.

Mark

 

[alang1216]

Remember my story about the Democrats at the VFW?

Mark

Sorry, I honestly don't.

 

[alang1216]

I have a degree, and have had extensive training in logic. Maybe I'm just stupid?
Besides, a higher education in the past did not produce more liberals, according to my link.

Mark[/QUOTE]
You're born stupid. Or smart. Education makes you neither, it just makes you more knowledgeable.

 

[80zephyr]

Remember my story about the Democrats at the VFW?

Mark

Sorry, I honestly don't.

Found it.

Some years ago, I went to a Democratic fundraiser at the local VFW. At the end of the night, I was with 5 or 6 local Democrats at the bar. So, I asked them what made them democrats. "Do you favor gun control"? Nope, they said. How about abortion? Nope, they replied. Certainly you must favor big government? Are you crazy, was the answer.

And then I looked at them and said, hey dummies, you are all Republicans.

Mark

 

[alang1216]

Some years ago, I went to a Democratic fundraiser at the local VFW. At the end of the night, I was with 5 or 6 local Democrats at the bar. So, I asked them what made them democrats. "Do you favor gun control"? Nope, they said. How about abortion? Nope, they replied. Certainly you must favor big government? Are you crazy, was the answer.

And then I looked at them and said, hey dummies, you are all Republicans.

Mark

Maybe they were union members or teachers or gay or immigrants or scared of losing their social security or disabled or women or non-white or couldn't afford their prescription drugs or their health insurance or maybe they were just poor and were hoping for a raise in the minimum wage?

 

[blackhawk]

Neither side is right about everything or wrong about everything the problem is the extremes from both parties drown out those who understand this.

 

[80zephyr]

Some years ago, I went to a Democratic fundraiser at the local VFW. At the end of the night, I was with 5 or 6 local Democrats at the bar. So, I asked them what made them democrats. "Do you favor gun control"? Nope, they said. How about abortion? Nope, they replied. Certainly you must favor big government? Are you crazy, was the answer.

And then I looked at them and said, hey dummies, you are all Republicans.

Mark

Maybe they were union members or teachers or gay or immigrants or scared of losing their social security or disabled or women or non-white or couldn't afford their prescription drugs or their health insurance or maybe they were just poor and were hoping for a raise in the minimum wage?

Like me, they are members of Carpenters Local 804. I disagree with our political arm.

Mark

 

[alang1216]

Like me, they are members of Carpenters Local 804. I disagree with our political arm.

Mark

I admire people who rise above their own self-interest.

 

[karpenter]

Anyone who assumes they have all the right answers is wrong.

Aren't Saying We Have All The Right Answers
Just Saying The Left Has Nothing But Wrong Ideas

See How Your Mind Translated, Interpreted Differently
From What Was Clearly Stated In Front Of You ??
Then You Repeated An Empty Trope
As Words Of Wisdom