CDZ American Muslim's and Assimilation

[PK1]

...
From the children's perspective, it's a matter of remaining "faithful" vs "thinking independently".
...
.

That is a completely false choice, indicating you may not understand either word.

---
Being "faithful" to your parent-culture's religion without rational examination is not "thinking independently".
.

 

[Unkotare]

...
From the children's perspective, it's a matter of remaining "faithful" vs "thinking independently".
...
.

That is a completely false choice, indicating you may not understand either word.

---
Being "faithful" to your parent-culture's religion without rational examination is not "thinking independently".
.

You're an illogical buffoon.

 

[Elvis Obama]

1- Yes
2- Yes
3- No

Stop accepting Western money and rejecting Western values. Embrace modernity. No more honor killings. No more Sharia courts. Don't come here to live unless you want to live here, Do not try to make this country into the place you left.

How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?

I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.

 

[Flopper]

What should muslims in America do in your opinion to be considered fully assimilated?

Become citizens? all of this, he cannot
Dress differently?
Build more mosques?
Get a CCW permit?
Vote?

By definition, to be considered a proper Muslim, Sharia Law and the various commands of Mohamed must be observed.

Therefore, it is plain that unless a Muslim renounces all of this he cannot ever fit into American or Western society.

I'ts a complete clash of religions, cultures and civilizations.

Most Muslims agree Shari Law has only one true meaning however that meaning is often in disputed. Shari Law is most widely accepted in cases of property and family. General adherence varies widely between nations.

Just as Jews accept the 10 commandment as God law, Muslims accept Shari Law. However, acceptance and adherence are not the same.

 

[Flopper]

1- Yes
2- Yes
3- No

Stop accepting Western money and rejecting Western values. Embrace modernity. No more honor killings. No more Sharia courts. Don't come here to live unless you want to live here, Do not try to make this country into the place you left.

How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?

I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.

There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1- Yes
2- Yes
3- No

Stop accepting Western money and rejecting Western values. Embrace modernity. No more honor killings. No more Sharia courts. Don't come here to live unless you want to live here, Do not try to make this country into the place you left.

How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?

I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.

We have laws against murder.

I'm not surprised you're not aware of that.

 

[PK1]

...
From the children's perspective, it's a matter of remaining "faithful" vs "thinking independently".
...
.

That is a completely false choice, indicating you may not understand either word.

---
Being "faithful" to your parent-culture's religion without rational examination is not "thinking independently".
.

You're an illogical buffoon.

---
LOL! Yeah. resorting to name calling is very logical.
Typical unkotare; cannot explain your disagreements, then get emotional.

Why don't you compose yourself, get as rational as you can, then try a little logic and explain why i'm illogical.
.

 

[Sunni Man]

Many western people mistakenly believe that so called "honor killings" are a part of Sharia law.

Honor killings have nothing to do with Islam and are not part of the Quran.

Honor killings are a cultural / tribal phenomenon which predates the advent of Islam; and are far more prevalent within Hindu culture and society. .......

 

[Elvis Obama]

1- Yes
2- Yes
3- No

Stop accepting Western money and rejecting Western values. Embrace modernity. No more honor killings. No more Sharia courts. Don't come here to live unless you want to live here, Do not try to make this country into the place you left.

How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?

I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.

We have laws against murder.

I'm not surprised you're not aware of that.

We have? Really? Are you sure? No I'm almost 100% sure you're wrong.

Did this post serve any purpose other than to be pointlessly snarky?

 

[PoliticalChic]

What western people don't understand is the prohibition of muslims giving unscholarly opinions about Islamic issues to non-muslims.

Because if a muslim gives an incorrect or misguided answer to a question about the religion. It will be held against him on judgement day. So muslims are reluctant to answer questions concerning the religion. But their reticence doesn't mean they agree with the sheikh either. .....

But, Sunni.....the magnitude of the problem can be seen here: does the religious precept join with or run counter to the secular/political?

Can the religion allow separate magisteria?

Jews, and Christians....yes.
But....as Tocqueville wrote:

Although Christianity in its many varieties was the religion of the original colonies, Christianity does not preach operational dominance over the body politic in America. Tocqueville compared this aspect to Islam: “Mohammed professed to derive from Heaven, and has inserted in the Koran, not only religious doctrines, but political maxims, civil and criminal laws, and theories of science. The Gospel, on the contrary, speaks only of the general relations of men to God and to each other, beyond which it inculcates and imposes no point of faith. This alone, besides a thousand other reasons, would suffice to prove that the former of these religions will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, while the latter is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods.”

Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” vol.2, p. 23.




If you have time, I'm going to post a Muslim historian's view of Jesus, later.
Be interested to see if you agree

 

[PoliticalChic]

What should muslims in America do in your opinion to be considered fully assimilated?

Become citizens? all of this, he cannot
Dress differently?
Build more mosques?
Get a CCW permit?
Vote?

By definition, to be considered a proper Muslim, Sharia Law and the various commands of Mohamed must be observed.

Therefore, it is plain that unless a Muslim renounces all of this he cannot ever fit into American or Western society.

I'ts a complete clash of religions, cultures and civilizations.

"....unless a Muslim renounces all of this...."

That would be apostasy.


"Apostasy
Does Islam allow freedom of religion or does it threaten the death penalty for apostasy?

Those who turn their back on Islam are to be executed. This is confirmed by the words and deeds of Muhammad. The only freedom of belief in Islam is the freedom to become Muslim."
Apostasy in Islam


Quran (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

Quran (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith that establish the death sentence for apostates are Quran verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, 9:66.

no matter that is what is required, a total renunciation of their faith.

I'd be satisfied with a 'reformation.'

 

[Elvis Obama]

1- Yes
2- Yes
3- No

Stop accepting Western money and rejecting Western values. Embrace modernity. No more honor killings. No more Sharia courts. Don't come here to live unless you want to live here, Do not try to make this country into the place you left.

How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?

I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.

There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.

The subject of this thread, as I understand it, is assimilation. Barriers to assimilation, barriers to the perception of assimilation and barriers to attempts to assimilate.

Are there barriers to assimilation? More than any other group has faced? Is it worse in Europe than America? Do the problems in Europe color the American perception of Muslim assimilation? Are factors like honor killing a barrier to people seeing the level of assimilation realistically? It's kind of like a little cannibalism, isn't it? How much before you have a legitimate problem with your "brand"? Throwing acid into the faces of little girls? Smashing up antiquities for no reason? As far as barriers to attempting to assimilate goes, who knows? How do Muslim immigrants measure up to other groups regarding assimilation indices?

 

[NYcarbineer]

1- Yes
2- Yes
3- No

Stop accepting Western money and rejecting Western values. Embrace modernity. No more honor killings. No more Sharia courts. Don't come here to live unless you want to live here, Do not try to make this country into the place you left.

How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?

I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.

There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.

The subject of this thread, as I understand it, is assimilation. Barriers to assimilation, barriers to the perception of assimilation and barriers to attempts to assimilate.

Are there barriers to assimilation? More than any other group has faced? Is it worse in Europe than America? Do the problems in Europe color the American perception of Muslim assimilation? Are factors like honor killing a barrier to people seeing the level of assimilation realistically? It's kind of like a little cannibalism, isn't it? How much before you have a legitimate problem with your "brand"? Throwing acid into the faces of little girls? Smashing up antiquities for no reason? As far as barriers to attempting to assimilate goes, who knows? How do Muslim immigrants measure up to other groups regarding assimilation indices?

How many of those acts are legal in the US? How many are in any danger of becoming legal?

 

[Elvis Obama]

1- Yes
2- Yes
3- No

Stop accepting Western money and rejecting Western values. Embrace modernity. No more honor killings. No more Sharia courts. Don't come here to live unless you want to live here, Do not try to make this country into the place you left.

How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?

I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.

There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.

The subject of this thread, as I understand it, is assimilation. Barriers to assimilation, barriers to the perception of assimilation and barriers to attempts to assimilate.

Are there barriers to assimilation? More than any other group has faced? Is it worse in Europe than America? Do the problems in Europe color the American perception of Muslim assimilation? Are factors like honor killing a barrier to people seeing the level of assimilation realistically? It's kind of like a little cannibalism, isn't it? How much before you have a legitimate problem with your "brand"? Throwing acid into the faces of little girls? Smashing up antiquities for no reason? As far as barriers to attempting to assimilate goes, who knows? How do Muslim immigrants measure up to other groups regarding assimilation indices?

How many of those acts are legal in the US? How many are in any danger of becoming legal?

All those acts are legal in the US, and all of them are in danger of becoming even more legal! My God, you're right! Sadly, you also couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Unkotare]

... explain why i'm [sic] illogical.
.

Because following one's family religious tradition is NOT an indication that one has not reflected on faith, thought independently, or was rational. There is no mutual exclusivity, and it goes without saying that you cannot know what anyone, let alone everyone, has or has not thought. THAT is illogical. Now do you understand, or do you need the big-grip crayons?

 

[PK1]

Honor killings are a cultural / tribal phenomenon which predates the advent of Islam; and are far more prevalent within Hindu culture and society.

---
Yes, a cultural phenomenon. Religion is a cultural phenomenon, just like honor killings, and Muslim cultures favor honor killings the most nowadays:

"Although Sikhs and Hindus do sometimes commit such murders, honor killings, both worldwide and in the West, are mainly Muslim-on-Muslim crimes. In this study, worldwide, 91 percent of perpetrators were Muslims."

Worldwide Trends in Honor Killings
.

 

[PK1]

... explain why i'm [sic] illogical.
.

Because following one's family religious tradition is NOT an indication that one has not reflected on faith, thought independently, or was rational. There is no mutual exclusivity, and it goes without saying that you cannot know what anyone, let alone everyone, has or has not thought. THAT is illogical. Now do you understand, or do you need the big-grip crayons?

---
Why don't you reread carefully my statement and try again:

Being "faithful" to your parent-culture's religion without rational examination is not "thinking independently".
.

 

[dani67]

Almost every day someone posts that muslims need to go back where they came from because they don't assimilate into the "American way of life".

When I grew up, America stood for, baseball, apple pie, and Chevrolet. (according to an old radio ad).

Well I am a Boston Red Sox fan.....love home made apple pie.....and late 60"s chevy muscle cars.

But today that doesn't seem to be enough to qualify as an American.

So I ask. "what else do muslims need to do to in order gain acceptance with our fellow citizens"? ......

JOIN SANDERS CAMPAIGN

 

[Sunni Man]

Sorry, but I'm not going to vote for a communist jew. ......

 

[dani67]

1. Put the United States Constitution and laws ahead of sharia.
2. band together to help destroy Islamic terrorism

1. God's law always trumps man's law.......even in Christianity.
2. I'm not aware of amy Islamic terrorism in America to help destroy?

SHARIA= you can fuck under 18 ..............
united States law= you can fuck under 18 .....
sharia= if you kill man in war.you can fuck his wife/
you can beat your wife .