America is not growing hostile towards Chriastians; it is hostile towards religious bullies.

[Czernobog]

"America is becoming hostile towards Christians!" This seems to be becoming the most popular battle cry of the religious right of late. A growing number of Christians– a shocking amount, actually– are convinced that America’s glory days are over and that Christians are now a marginalized group on the verge of having all of their rights stripped away. right-wing politicians and religious talking-heads like Franklin Graham are trying to convince people that “religious liberty” is not only being threatened, but on the verge of disappearing.

Really? Disappearing? Recent polls show that around 83% of Americans are Christians. That long line of U.S presidents stemming back to the founding of the nation? Well, except for Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, all of them were professing Christians to varying degrees. And Congress? You know, the people who actually make the laws we live by in America? Well, that group of people is actually 91.8% Christian. And let’s not forget the Supreme Court, the body that decides which laws are constitutional and which ones are not– that’s predominantly stacked with Christians too, having two justices who are Jewish, and the rest entirely Christians.

If religious liberty is "disappearing", and Christianity is in danger of extinction in America, then Christians are certainly a self-destructive lot - because America is near-entirely controlled by Christians.

But, you see, America isn't becoming hostile towards Christians - it's just had its fill of religious bullies. No one give so much as a single fuck if one is a practicing Christian. There’s no movement to banish churches and put them under government regulation like in China. No one is stopping Christians from gathering together with other believers, from feeding the poor, or even from standing on the street corner with obnoxious signs that say “God hates f*gs!”

Religious freedom, freedom of speech, and the right to assemble are all alive, and well in the United States. These freedoms are not just tolerated; they are embraced. What is not embraced, and what America is becoming increasingly hostile towards, are Christian extremists trying to institute their own version of sharia law that infringes on the rights and liberties of the rest of us. There’s a huge difference between freedom to practice one’s religion in a pluralistic society where we all equally have that right, versus enshrining one’s religious views in laws that are imposed on the rest of us. Just as there is a difference between saying that you want to be free and not forced to marry someone of the same sex, versus wanting to deny that right to someone else you don’t even know. Again, there is a difference between wanting the freedom to own a business and conduct commerce freely in the public square, versus demanding to run a business that discriminates and infringes on the basic rights and dignities of anyone whose personal choices one finds distasteful.

The irony is that the extremists, and politicians would have everyone believe that this is a fight between the "godless", and the believers. Refer back to my paragraph describing just how much political power Christians hold. It isn't atheists, pagans, or other no-Christians opposing these draconian attempts to control the lives of others; it. Is. Christians who have said, "Enough is enough,"

No one is trying to stop you from being a Christian. The country is not growing hostile towards Christians. It’s just growing hostile towards extremist, religious bullies, who are trying to hijack the nation and force everyone to live under their own set of morals and ethics.

Well said. You then have to ask who is brainwashing these people to believe something that is the opposite of the truth, and what do they get out of doing that. Who benefits from making 'christians' afraid every day of their waking life.

A local yocal on the city council recently introduced a bill to put 'in god we trust' on the wall of city hall. How about you put 'in god we trust' on the wall of your house or your church. Stop cramming your religion down everyone else's throat.

How about if one put "In God we Trust" up next to a "Christians are responsible for all the evil in the world" sign at a protest? Is that cramming their religion down your throat?

How about we not imply that the nation Trusts in God?

 

[Ringel05]

"America is becoming hostile towards Christians!" This seems to be becoming the most popular battle cry of the religious right of late. A growing number of Christians– a shocking amount, actually– are convinced that America’s glory days are over and that Christians are now a marginalized group on the verge of having all of their rights stripped away. right-wing politicians and religious talking-heads like Franklin Graham are trying to convince people that “religious liberty” is not only being threatened, but on the verge of disappearing.

Really? Disappearing? Recent polls show that around 83% of Americans are Christians. That long line of U.S presidents stemming back to the founding of the nation? Well, except for Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, all of them were professing Christians to varying degrees. And Congress? You know, the people who actually make the laws we live by in America? Well, that group of people is actually 91.8% Christian. And let’s not forget the Supreme Court, the body that decides which laws are constitutional and which ones are not– that’s predominantly stacked with Christians too, having two justices who are Jewish, and the rest entirely Christians.

If religious liberty is "disappearing", and Christianity is in danger of extinction in America, then Christians are certainly a self-destructive lot - because America is near-entirely controlled by Christians.

But, you see, America isn't becoming hostile towards Christians - it's just had its fill of religious bullies. No one give so much as a single fuck if one is a practicing Christian. There’s no movement to banish churches and put them under government regulation like in China. No one is stopping Christians from gathering together with other believers, from feeding the poor, or even from standing on the street corner with obnoxious signs that say “God hates f*gs!”

Religious freedom, freedom of speech, and the right to assemble are all alive, and well in the United States. These freedoms are not just tolerated; they are embraced. What is not embraced, and what America is becoming increasingly hostile towards, are Christian extremists trying to institute their own version of sharia law that infringes on the rights and liberties of the rest of us. There’s a huge difference between freedom to practice one’s religion in a pluralistic society where we all equally have that right, versus enshrining one’s religious views in laws that are imposed on the rest of us. Just as there is a difference between saying that you want to be free and not forced to marry someone of the same sex, versus wanting to deny that right to someone else you don’t even know. Again, there is a difference between wanting the freedom to own a business and conduct commerce freely in the public square, versus demanding to run a business that discriminates and infringes on the basic rights and dignities of anyone whose personal choices one finds distasteful.

The irony is that the extremists, and politicians would have everyone believe that this is a fight between the "godless", and the believers. Refer back to my paragraph describing just how much political power Christians hold. It isn't atheists, pagans, or other no-Christians opposing these draconian attempts to control the lives of others; it. Is. Christians who have said, "Enough is enough,"

No one is trying to stop you from being a Christian. The country is not growing hostile towards Christians. It’s just growing hostile towards extremist, religious bullies, who are trying to hijack the nation and force everyone to live under their own set of morals and ethics.

Well said. You then have to ask who is brainwashing these people to believe something that is the opposite of the truth, and what do they get out of doing that. Who benefits from making 'christians' afraid every day of their waking life.

A local yocal on the city council recently introduced a bill to put 'in god we trust' on the wall of city hall. How about you put 'in god we trust' on the wall of your house or your church. Stop cramming your religion down everyone else's throat.

How about if one put "In God we Trust" up next to a "Christians are responsible for all the evil in the world" sign at a protest? Is that cramming their religion down your throat?

Why this never ending need for Christians to put up their religious graffiti on every wall? They are religous taggers. Just put up a 7 foot cross in your living room, and one in your church, write all your favorite bible verses on every surface in your house and enjoy your life. Why the need to tag public buildings?

Public buildings or government buildings, there id a difference. Also are you saying religion should be confined to the home and places of worship and not allowed anywhere else, that it should not even street preachers be allowed to preach?

 

[Czernobog]

Ringel05, lemme ask you a question. And it is a question with a purpose. Are you a Christian?

 

[Ringel05]

Here's the problem with this statement; However this does not translate to "Christians have a right to have their religious views codified into law". What religious views are you referring to? How would any of those views restrict your rights? That's what I'm talking about, perceptions vs reality.

Really? Abortion? Gay marriage? Where have you been for the last 40 years. Again, over 90% of Congress is Christian. Every single Supreme Court Judge is Christian. Every President, with two exceptions, have been Christians. Every Governor across the country, other than Pennsylvania, and Hawaii, are Christian. Christians have not only representation, but near unanimous control of the government in this country. In what way do you suppose that Christians do not have political representation?

Yet SCOTUS ruled Gay Marriage and Abortion to be constitutional, how many presidents and congress critters that are Christian support Gay Marriage and Abortion because they understand our government is secular?

Precisely. It is not Christians who do not have ;political representation. It is Christian extremists, who want to codify Christian doctrine into law, who do not have political representation. The vast majority of Christians do not want Christian doctrine to be codified into law. You seem to be trying to suggest that the Christian bullies, and domninionists are, in fact, the majority. I do not believe that.[/QUOTE]

Actually I said just the opposite and your initial approach to the subject and resultant responses appeared to imply you did believe that.
You OP appears to imply that there is no one who is pushing to ban or bar open religious practice and or discourse and that the entire problem rests with Christians only. That's the way you've been coming across.

No. Not Christians, but with Christian bullies, and political operatives - admittedly, mostly from the Right - who stand to gain, politically, by stirring up the passions of Christians, and convincing them that "The ebul Libtrul Left" is coming after their religion, just like the gun lobbyists gain when they convince conservatives that "those damn libruls are comin after ur guns!" It's not Christians that are the problem; it is dominionist bullies, and opportunistic politicians that are the problem.

Welcome to the world of politics........

 

[Czernobog]

"America is becoming hostile towards Christians!" This seems to be becoming the most popular battle cry of the religious right of late. A growing number of Christians– a shocking amount, actually– are convinced that America’s glory days are over and that Christians are now a marginalized group on the verge of having all of their rights stripped away. right-wing politicians and religious talking-heads like Franklin Graham are trying to convince people that “religious liberty” is not only being threatened, but on the verge of disappearing.

Really? Disappearing? Recent polls show that around 83% of Americans are Christians. That long line of U.S presidents stemming back to the founding of the nation? Well, except for Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, all of them were professing Christians to varying degrees. And Congress? You know, the people who actually make the laws we live by in America? Well, that group of people is actually 91.8% Christian. And let’s not forget the Supreme Court, the body that decides which laws are constitutional and which ones are not– that’s predominantly stacked with Christians too, having two justices who are Jewish, and the rest entirely Christians.

If religious liberty is "disappearing", and Christianity is in danger of extinction in America, then Christians are certainly a self-destructive lot - because America is near-entirely controlled by Christians.

But, you see, America isn't becoming hostile towards Christians - it's just had its fill of religious bullies. No one give so much as a single fuck if one is a practicing Christian. There’s no movement to banish churches and put them under government regulation like in China. No one is stopping Christians from gathering together with other believers, from feeding the poor, or even from standing on the street corner with obnoxious signs that say “God hates f*gs!”

Religious freedom, freedom of speech, and the right to assemble are all alive, and well in the United States. These freedoms are not just tolerated; they are embraced. What is not embraced, and what America is becoming increasingly hostile towards, are Christian extremists trying to institute their own version of sharia law that infringes on the rights and liberties of the rest of us. There’s a huge difference between freedom to practice one’s religion in a pluralistic society where we all equally have that right, versus enshrining one’s religious views in laws that are imposed on the rest of us. Just as there is a difference between saying that you want to be free and not forced to marry someone of the same sex, versus wanting to deny that right to someone else you don’t even know. Again, there is a difference between wanting the freedom to own a business and conduct commerce freely in the public square, versus demanding to run a business that discriminates and infringes on the basic rights and dignities of anyone whose personal choices one finds distasteful.

The irony is that the extremists, and politicians would have everyone believe that this is a fight between the "godless", and the believers. Refer back to my paragraph describing just how much political power Christians hold. It isn't atheists, pagans, or other no-Christians opposing these draconian attempts to control the lives of others; it. Is. Christians who have said, "Enough is enough,"

No one is trying to stop you from being a Christian. The country is not growing hostile towards Christians. It’s just growing hostile towards extremist, religious bullies, who are trying to hijack the nation and force everyone to live under their own set of morals and ethics.

Well said. You then have to ask who is brainwashing these people to believe something that is the opposite of the truth, and what do they get out of doing that. Who benefits from making 'christians' afraid every day of their waking life.

A local yocal on the city council recently introduced a bill to put 'in god we trust' on the wall of city hall. How about you put 'in god we trust' on the wall of your house or your church. Stop cramming your religion down everyone else's throat.

How about if one put "In God we Trust" up next to a "Christians are responsible for all the evil in the world" sign at a protest? Is that cramming their religion down your throat?

Why this never ending need for Christians to put up their religious graffiti on every wall? They are religous taggers. Just put up a 7 foot cross in your living room, and one in your church, write all your favorite bible verses on every surface in your house and enjoy your life. Why the need to tag public buildings?

Public buildings or government buildings, there id a difference. Also are you saying religion should be confined to the home and places of worship and not allowed anywhere else, that it should not even street preachers be allowed to preach?

Absolutely not. Only that it should not be inserted into our government, implying that the government is endorsing it. I think Eisenhower made a grave error, when he decided to have that phrase stamp onto our currency. I unde3rstand why he did it; that doesn't make it any less of a mistake.

 

[Ringel05]

Ringel05, lemme ask you a question. And it is a question with a purpose. Are you a Christian?

Yes but I'm also a realist and accept that we live under a secular government as such I also believe in the constitution and that we should not be subject to Christian or any religious laws that are not compliant with the constitution. I can separate the two but with a strong psych background I understand human motivations and fallacies.

 

[Ringel05]

"America is becoming hostile towards Christians!" This seems to be becoming the most popular battle cry of the religious right of late. A growing number of Christians– a shocking amount, actually– are convinced that America’s glory days are over and that Christians are now a marginalized group on the verge of having all of their rights stripped away. right-wing politicians and religious talking-heads like Franklin Graham are trying to convince people that “religious liberty” is not only being threatened, but on the verge of disappearing.

Really? Disappearing? Recent polls show that around 83% of Americans are Christians. That long line of U.S presidents stemming back to the founding of the nation? Well, except for Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, all of them were professing Christians to varying degrees. And Congress? You know, the people who actually make the laws we live by in America? Well, that group of people is actually 91.8% Christian. And let’s not forget the Supreme Court, the body that decides which laws are constitutional and which ones are not– that’s predominantly stacked with Christians too, having two justices who are Jewish, and the rest entirely Christians.

If religious liberty is "disappearing", and Christianity is in danger of extinction in America, then Christians are certainly a self-destructive lot - because America is near-entirely controlled by Christians.

But, you see, America isn't becoming hostile towards Christians - it's just had its fill of religious bullies. No one give so much as a single fuck if one is a practicing Christian. There’s no movement to banish churches and put them under government regulation like in China. No one is stopping Christians from gathering together with other believers, from feeding the poor, or even from standing on the street corner with obnoxious signs that say “God hates f*gs!”

Religious freedom, freedom of speech, and the right to assemble are all alive, and well in the United States. These freedoms are not just tolerated; they are embraced. What is not embraced, and what America is becoming increasingly hostile towards, are Christian extremists trying to institute their own version of sharia law that infringes on the rights and liberties of the rest of us. There’s a huge difference between freedom to practice one’s religion in a pluralistic society where we all equally have that right, versus enshrining one’s religious views in laws that are imposed on the rest of us. Just as there is a difference between saying that you want to be free and not forced to marry someone of the same sex, versus wanting to deny that right to someone else you don’t even know. Again, there is a difference between wanting the freedom to own a business and conduct commerce freely in the public square, versus demanding to run a business that discriminates and infringes on the basic rights and dignities of anyone whose personal choices one finds distasteful.

The irony is that the extremists, and politicians would have everyone believe that this is a fight between the "godless", and the believers. Refer back to my paragraph describing just how much political power Christians hold. It isn't atheists, pagans, or other no-Christians opposing these draconian attempts to control the lives of others; it. Is. Christians who have said, "Enough is enough,"

No one is trying to stop you from being a Christian. The country is not growing hostile towards Christians. It’s just growing hostile towards extremist, religious bullies, who are trying to hijack the nation and force everyone to live under their own set of morals and ethics.

Well said. You then have to ask who is brainwashing these people to believe something that is the opposite of the truth, and what do they get out of doing that. Who benefits from making 'christians' afraid every day of their waking life.

A local yocal on the city council recently introduced a bill to put 'in god we trust' on the wall of city hall. How about you put 'in god we trust' on the wall of your house or your church. Stop cramming your religion down everyone else's throat.

How about if one put "In God we Trust" up next to a "Christians are responsible for all the evil in the world" sign at a protest? Is that cramming their religion down your throat?

Why this never ending need for Christians to put up their religious graffiti on every wall? They are religous taggers. Just put up a 7 foot cross in your living room, and one in your church, write all your favorite bible verses on every surface in your house and enjoy your life. Why the need to tag public buildings?

Public buildings or government buildings, there id a difference. Also are you saying religion should be confined to the home and places of worship and not allowed anywhere else, that it should not even street preachers be allowed to preach?

Absolutely not. Only that it should not be inserted into our government, implying that the government is endorsing it. I think Eisenhower made a grave error, when he decided to have that phrase stamp onto our currency. I unde3rstand why he did it; that doesn't make it any less of a mistake.

To me it's a simple statement that anyone can take or leave as they choose. No skin off of my nose either way.

 

[Czernobog]

Ringel05, lemme ask you a question. And it is a question with a purpose. Are you a Christian?

Yes but I'm also a realist and accept that we live under a secular government as such I also believe in the constitution and that we should not be subject to Christian or any religious laws that are not compliant with the constitution. I can separate the two but with a strong psych background I understand human motivations and fallacies.

Okay. You're a Christian. Two more questions:

1 - Do you think that a baker who operates a public business should have the right to discriminate against someone, just because they disagree with that person's personal choices?

2 - Do you believe that you are being politically represented?

 

[Ringel05]

Ringel05, lemme ask you a question. And it is a question with a purpose. Are you a Christian?

Yes but I'm also a realist and accept that we live under a secular government as such I also believe in the constitution and that we should not be subject to Christian or any religious laws that are not compliant with the constitution. I can separate the two but with a strong psych background I understand human motivations and fallacies.

Oh and I was both an agnostic and an atheist for part of my early life.

 

[Czernobog]

Well said. You then have to ask who is brainwashing these people to believe something that is the opposite of the truth, and what do they get out of doing that. Who benefits from making 'christians' afraid every day of their waking life.

A local yocal on the city council recently introduced a bill to put 'in god we trust' on the wall of city hall. How about you put 'in god we trust' on the wall of your house or your church. Stop cramming your religion down everyone else's throat.

How about if one put "In God we Trust" up next to a "Christians are responsible for all the evil in the world" sign at a protest? Is that cramming their religion down your throat?

Why this never ending need for Christians to put up their religious graffiti on every wall? They are religous taggers. Just put up a 7 foot cross in your living room, and one in your church, write all your favorite bible verses on every surface in your house and enjoy your life. Why the need to tag public buildings?

Public buildings or government buildings, there id a difference. Also are you saying religion should be confined to the home and places of worship and not allowed anywhere else, that it should not even street preachers be allowed to preach?

Absolutely not. Only that it should not be inserted into our government, implying that the government is endorsing it. I think Eisenhower made a grave error, when he decided to have that phrase stamp onto our currency. I unde3rstand why he did it; that doesn't make it any less of a mistake.

To me it's a simple statement that anyone can take or leave as they choose. No skin off of my nose either way.

Except it's not. It doesn't say In God we can Trust. It says, "In God we trust", as in do trust...all of us, as a nation. Except we don't. There are some of us who do not even believe in this God of yours. So, why should the government make a religious statement of faith for all of us that is not accurate for all of us?

 

[Czernobog]

Ringel05, lemme ask you a question. And it is a question with a purpose. Are you a Christian?

Yes but I'm also a realist and accept that we live under a secular government as such I also believe in the constitution and that we should not be subject to Christian or any religious laws that are not compliant with the constitution. I can separate the two but with a strong psych background I understand human motivations and fallacies.

Oh and I was both an agnostic and an atheist for part of my early life.

Wasn't the reason I was asking. Not going to debate the merits of the religion, here. Wasn't the point of the OP.

 

[Ringel05]

"America is becoming hostile towards Christians!" This seems to be becoming the most popular battle cry of the religious right of late. A growing number of Christians– a shocking amount, actually– are convinced that America’s glory days are over and that Christians are now a marginalized group on the verge of having all of their rights stripped away. right-wing politicians and religious talking-heads like Franklin Graham are trying to convince people that “religious liberty” is not only being threatened, but on the verge of disappearing.

Really? Disappearing? Recent polls show that around 83% of Americans are Christians. That long line of U.S presidents stemming back to the founding of the nation? Well, except for Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, all of them were professing Christians to varying degrees. And Congress? You know, the people who actually make the laws we live by in America? Well, that group of people is actually 91.8% Christian. And let’s not forget the Supreme Court, the body that decides which laws are constitutional and which ones are not– that’s predominantly stacked with Christians too, having two justices who are Jewish, and the rest entirely Christians.

If religious liberty is "disappearing", and Christianity is in danger of extinction in America, then Christians are certainly a self-destructive lot - because America is near-entirely controlled by Christians.

But, you see, America isn't becoming hostile towards Christians - it's just had its fill of religious bullies. No one give so much as a single fuck if one is a practicing Christian. There’s no movement to banish churches and put them under government regulation like in China. No one is stopping Christians from gathering together with other believers, from feeding the poor, or even from standing on the street corner with obnoxious signs that say “God hates f*gs!”

Religious freedom, freedom of speech, and the right to assemble are all alive, and well in the United States. These freedoms are not just tolerated; they are embraced. What is not embraced, and what America is becoming increasingly hostile towards, are Christian extremists trying to institute their own version of sharia law that infringes on the rights and liberties of the rest of us. There’s a huge difference between freedom to practice one’s religion in a pluralistic society where we all equally have that right, versus enshrining one’s religious views in laws that are imposed on the rest of us. Just as there is a difference between saying that you want to be free and not forced to marry someone of the same sex, versus wanting to deny that right to someone else you don’t even know. Again, there is a difference between wanting the freedom to own a business and conduct commerce freely in the public square, versus demanding to run a business that discriminates and infringes on the basic rights and dignities of anyone whose personal choices one finds distasteful.

The irony is that the extremists, and politicians would have everyone believe that this is a fight between the "godless", and the believers. Refer back to my paragraph describing just how much political power Christians hold. It isn't atheists, pagans, or other no-Christians opposing these draconian attempts to control the lives of others; it. Is. Christians who have said, "Enough is enough,"

No one is trying to stop you from being a Christian. The country is not growing hostile towards Christians. It’s just growing hostile towards extremist, religious bullies, who are trying to hijack the nation and force everyone to live under their own set of morals and ethics.

Well said. You then have to ask who is brainwashing these people to believe something that is the opposite of the truth, and what do they get out of doing that. Who benefits from making 'christians' afraid every day of their waking life.

A local yocal on the city council recently introduced a bill to put 'in god we trust' on the wall of city hall. How about you put 'in god we trust' on the wall of your house or your church. Stop cramming your religion down everyone else's throat.

How about if one put "In God we Trust" up next to a "Christians are responsible for all the evil in the world" sign at a protest? Is that cramming their religion down your throat?

How about we not imply that the nation Trusts in God?

The real question is why does such an innocuous phrase bother you so much? That is the question you should be asking yourself. It obviously doesn't bother most, hell the only thing I look at when handling my money is the denominations.

 

[Ringel05]

How about if one put "In God we Trust" up next to a "Christians are responsible for all the evil in the world" sign at a protest? Is that cramming their religion down your throat?

Why this never ending need for Christians to put up their religious graffiti on every wall? They are religous taggers. Just put up a 7 foot cross in your living room, and one in your church, write all your favorite bible verses on every surface in your house and enjoy your life. Why the need to tag public buildings?

Public buildings or government buildings, there id a difference. Also are you saying religion should be confined to the home and places of worship and not allowed anywhere else, that it should not even street preachers be allowed to preach?

Absolutely not. Only that it should not be inserted into our government, implying that the government is endorsing it. I think Eisenhower made a grave error, when he decided to have that phrase stamp onto our currency. I unde3rstand why he did it; that doesn't make it any less of a mistake.

To me it's a simple statement that anyone can take or leave as they choose. No skin off of my nose either way.

Except it's not. It doesn't say In God we can Trust. It says, "In God we trust", as in do trust...all of us, as a nation. Except we don't. There are some of us who do not even believe in this God of yours. So, why should the government make a religious statement of faith for all of us that is not accurate for all of us?

That's the I don't like it so I want it changed argument. Fine, argue, protest and petition away it's your right.

 

[IsaacNewton]

"America is becoming hostile towards Christians!" This seems to be becoming the most popular battle cry of the religious right of late. A growing number of Christians– a shocking amount, actually– are convinced that America’s glory days are over and that Christians are now a marginalized group on the verge of having all of their rights stripped away. right-wing politicians and religious talking-heads like Franklin Graham are trying to convince people that “religious liberty” is not only being threatened, but on the verge of disappearing.

Really? Disappearing? Recent polls show that around 83% of Americans are Christians. That long line of U.S presidents stemming back to the founding of the nation? Well, except for Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, all of them were professing Christians to varying degrees. And Congress? You know, the people who actually make the laws we live by in America? Well, that group of people is actually 91.8% Christian. And let’s not forget the Supreme Court, the body that decides which laws are constitutional and which ones are not– that’s predominantly stacked with Christians too, having two justices who are Jewish, and the rest entirely Christians.

If religious liberty is "disappearing", and Christianity is in danger of extinction in America, then Christians are certainly a self-destructive lot - because America is near-entirely controlled by Christians.

But, you see, America isn't becoming hostile towards Christians - it's just had its fill of religious bullies. No one give so much as a single fuck if one is a practicing Christian. There’s no movement to banish churches and put them under government regulation like in China. No one is stopping Christians from gathering together with other believers, from feeding the poor, or even from standing on the street corner with obnoxious signs that say “God hates f*gs!”

Religious freedom, freedom of speech, and the right to assemble are all alive, and well in the United States. These freedoms are not just tolerated; they are embraced. What is not embraced, and what America is becoming increasingly hostile towards, are Christian extremists trying to institute their own version of sharia law that infringes on the rights and liberties of the rest of us. There’s a huge difference between freedom to practice one’s religion in a pluralistic society where we all equally have that right, versus enshrining one’s religious views in laws that are imposed on the rest of us. Just as there is a difference between saying that you want to be free and not forced to marry someone of the same sex, versus wanting to deny that right to someone else you don’t even know. Again, there is a difference between wanting the freedom to own a business and conduct commerce freely in the public square, versus demanding to run a business that discriminates and infringes on the basic rights and dignities of anyone whose personal choices one finds distasteful.

The irony is that the extremists, and politicians would have everyone believe that this is a fight between the "godless", and the believers. Refer back to my paragraph describing just how much political power Christians hold. It isn't atheists, pagans, or other no-Christians opposing these draconian attempts to control the lives of others; it. Is. Christians who have said, "Enough is enough,"

No one is trying to stop you from being a Christian. The country is not growing hostile towards Christians. It’s just growing hostile towards extremist, religious bullies, who are trying to hijack the nation and force everyone to live under their own set of morals and ethics.

Well said. You then have to ask who is brainwashing these people to believe something that is the opposite of the truth, and what do they get out of doing that. Who benefits from making 'christians' afraid every day of their waking life.

A local yocal on the city council recently introduced a bill to put 'in god we trust' on the wall of city hall. How about you put 'in god we trust' on the wall of your house or your church. Stop cramming your religion down everyone else's throat.

How about if one put "In God we Trust" up next to a "Christians are responsible for all the evil in the world" sign at a protest? Is that cramming their religion down your throat?

Why this never ending need for Christians to put up their religious graffiti on every wall? They are religous taggers. Just put up a 7 foot cross in your living room, and one in your church, write all your favorite bible verses on every surface in your house and enjoy your life. Why the need to tag public buildings?

Public buildings or government buildings, there id a difference. Also are you saying religion should be confined to the home and places of worship and not allowed anywhere else, that it should not even street preachers be allowed to preach?

So you have no problem with them chiseling 'In Allah we trust' on government or public buildings?

Yeah see not too happy when it isn't YOUR religion. Just answer the question, why do Christians have this burning need to tag buildings with their religious graffiti? The Amish don't do that, they live their lives and leave everyone else the hell alone.

 

[Ringel05]

Ringel05, lemme ask you a question. And it is a question with a purpose. Are you a Christian?

Yes but I'm also a realist and accept that we live under a secular government as such I also believe in the constitution and that we should not be subject to Christian or any religious laws that are not compliant with the constitution. I can separate the two but with a strong psych background I understand human motivations and fallacies.

Oh and I was both an agnostic and an atheist for part of my early life.

Wasn't the reason I was asking. Not going to debate the merits of the religion, here. Wasn't the point of the OP.

That's good because I don't debate the merits of religion, my faith is personal, not religious.

 

[Ringel05]

"America is becoming hostile towards Christians!" This seems to be becoming the most popular battle cry of the religious right of late. A growing number of Christians– a shocking amount, actually– are convinced that America’s glory days are over and that Christians are now a marginalized group on the verge of having all of their rights stripped away. right-wing politicians and religious talking-heads like Franklin Graham are trying to convince people that “religious liberty” is not only being threatened, but on the verge of disappearing.

Really? Disappearing? Recent polls show that around 83% of Americans are Christians. That long line of U.S presidents stemming back to the founding of the nation? Well, except for Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, all of them were professing Christians to varying degrees. And Congress? You know, the people who actually make the laws we live by in America? Well, that group of people is actually 91.8% Christian. And let’s not forget the Supreme Court, the body that decides which laws are constitutional and which ones are not– that’s predominantly stacked with Christians too, having two justices who are Jewish, and the rest entirely Christians.

If religious liberty is "disappearing", and Christianity is in danger of extinction in America, then Christians are certainly a self-destructive lot - because America is near-entirely controlled by Christians.

But, you see, America isn't becoming hostile towards Christians - it's just had its fill of religious bullies. No one give so much as a single fuck if one is a practicing Christian. There’s no movement to banish churches and put them under government regulation like in China. No one is stopping Christians from gathering together with other believers, from feeding the poor, or even from standing on the street corner with obnoxious signs that say “God hates f*gs!”

Religious freedom, freedom of speech, and the right to assemble are all alive, and well in the United States. These freedoms are not just tolerated; they are embraced. What is not embraced, and what America is becoming increasingly hostile towards, are Christian extremists trying to institute their own version of sharia law that infringes on the rights and liberties of the rest of us. There’s a huge difference between freedom to practice one’s religion in a pluralistic society where we all equally have that right, versus enshrining one’s religious views in laws that are imposed on the rest of us. Just as there is a difference between saying that you want to be free and not forced to marry someone of the same sex, versus wanting to deny that right to someone else you don’t even know. Again, there is a difference between wanting the freedom to own a business and conduct commerce freely in the public square, versus demanding to run a business that discriminates and infringes on the basic rights and dignities of anyone whose personal choices one finds distasteful.

The irony is that the extremists, and politicians would have everyone believe that this is a fight between the "godless", and the believers. Refer back to my paragraph describing just how much political power Christians hold. It isn't atheists, pagans, or other no-Christians opposing these draconian attempts to control the lives of others; it. Is. Christians who have said, "Enough is enough,"

No one is trying to stop you from being a Christian. The country is not growing hostile towards Christians. It’s just growing hostile towards extremist, religious bullies, who are trying to hijack the nation and force everyone to live under their own set of morals and ethics.

Well said. You then have to ask who is brainwashing these people to believe something that is the opposite of the truth, and what do they get out of doing that. Who benefits from making 'christians' afraid every day of their waking life.

A local yocal on the city council recently introduced a bill to put 'in god we trust' on the wall of city hall. How about you put 'in god we trust' on the wall of your house or your church. Stop cramming your religion down everyone else's throat.

How about if one put "In God we Trust" up next to a "Christians are responsible for all the evil in the world" sign at a protest? Is that cramming their religion down your throat?

Why this never ending need for Christians to put up their religious graffiti on every wall? They are religous taggers. Just put up a 7 foot cross in your living room, and one in your church, write all your favorite bible verses on every surface in your house and enjoy your life. Why the need to tag public buildings?

Public buildings or government buildings, there id a difference. Also are you saying religion should be confined to the home and places of worship and not allowed anywhere else, that it should not even street preachers be allowed to preach?

So you have no problem with them chiseling 'In Allah we trust' on government or public buildings?

Yeah see not too happy when it isn't YOUR religion. Just answer the question, why do Christians have this burning need to tag buildings with their religious graffiti? The Amish don't do that, they live their lives and leave everyone else the hell alone.

You seem to like putting words in my mouth........ Besides you didn't answer my question.

 

[Czernobog]

"America is becoming hostile towards Christians!" This seems to be becoming the most popular battle cry of the religious right of late. A growing number of Christians– a shocking amount, actually– are convinced that America’s glory days are over and that Christians are now a marginalized group on the verge of having all of their rights stripped away. right-wing politicians and religious talking-heads like Franklin Graham are trying to convince people that “religious liberty” is not only being threatened, but on the verge of disappearing.

Really? Disappearing? Recent polls show that around 83% of Americans are Christians. That long line of U.S presidents stemming back to the founding of the nation? Well, except for Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, all of them were professing Christians to varying degrees. And Congress? You know, the people who actually make the laws we live by in America? Well, that group of people is actually 91.8% Christian. And let’s not forget the Supreme Court, the body that decides which laws are constitutional and which ones are not– that’s predominantly stacked with Christians too, having two justices who are Jewish, and the rest entirely Christians.

If religious liberty is "disappearing", and Christianity is in danger of extinction in America, then Christians are certainly a self-destructive lot - because America is near-entirely controlled by Christians.

But, you see, America isn't becoming hostile towards Christians - it's just had its fill of religious bullies. No one give so much as a single fuck if one is a practicing Christian. There’s no movement to banish churches and put them under government regulation like in China. No one is stopping Christians from gathering together with other believers, from feeding the poor, or even from standing on the street corner with obnoxious signs that say “God hates f*gs!”

Religious freedom, freedom of speech, and the right to assemble are all alive, and well in the United States. These freedoms are not just tolerated; they are embraced. What is not embraced, and what America is becoming increasingly hostile towards, are Christian extremists trying to institute their own version of sharia law that infringes on the rights and liberties of the rest of us. There’s a huge difference between freedom to practice one’s religion in a pluralistic society where we all equally have that right, versus enshrining one’s religious views in laws that are imposed on the rest of us. Just as there is a difference between saying that you want to be free and not forced to marry someone of the same sex, versus wanting to deny that right to someone else you don’t even know. Again, there is a difference between wanting the freedom to own a business and conduct commerce freely in the public square, versus demanding to run a business that discriminates and infringes on the basic rights and dignities of anyone whose personal choices one finds distasteful.

The irony is that the extremists, and politicians would have everyone believe that this is a fight between the "godless", and the believers. Refer back to my paragraph describing just how much political power Christians hold. It isn't atheists, pagans, or other no-Christians opposing these draconian attempts to control the lives of others; it. Is. Christians who have said, "Enough is enough,"

No one is trying to stop you from being a Christian. The country is not growing hostile towards Christians. It’s just growing hostile towards extremist, religious bullies, who are trying to hijack the nation and force everyone to live under their own set of morals and ethics.

Well said. You then have to ask who is brainwashing these people to believe something that is the opposite of the truth, and what do they get out of doing that. Who benefits from making 'christians' afraid every day of their waking life.

A local yocal on the city council recently introduced a bill to put 'in god we trust' on the wall of city hall. How about you put 'in god we trust' on the wall of your house or your church. Stop cramming your religion down everyone else's throat.

How about if one put "In God we Trust" up next to a "Christians are responsible for all the evil in the world" sign at a protest? Is that cramming their religion down your throat?

How about we not imply that the nation Trusts in God?

The real question is why does such an innocuous phrase bother you so much? That is the question you should be asking yourself. It obviously doesn't bother most, hell the only thing I look at when handling my money is the denominations.

I think I explained that. It's not an "innocuous phrase". E Pluribus Unim is an innocuous phrase. "In God we trust" is a statement of faith. When placed on government buildings, and our currency, it is a statement of faith that is being made on behalf of every single citizen of the United States. You said it yourself, we are a representative republic. That means that anything the government says, it says for all of us. In the case of "In God we trust", the government isn't speaking for all of us, yet we are supposed to just sit down, shut up, and pretend that it is. Sorry. I will not sit down. I will not shut up. I will not pretend that statement of faith represents my position.

 

[Ringel05]

"America is becoming hostile towards Christians!" This seems to be becoming the most popular battle cry of the religious right of late. A growing number of Christians– a shocking amount, actually– are convinced that America’s glory days are over and that Christians are now a marginalized group on the verge of having all of their rights stripped away. right-wing politicians and religious talking-heads like Franklin Graham are trying to convince people that “religious liberty” is not only being threatened, but on the verge of disappearing.

Really? Disappearing? Recent polls show that around 83% of Americans are Christians. That long line of U.S presidents stemming back to the founding of the nation? Well, except for Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, all of them were professing Christians to varying degrees. And Congress? You know, the people who actually make the laws we live by in America? Well, that group of people is actually 91.8% Christian. And let’s not forget the Supreme Court, the body that decides which laws are constitutional and which ones are not– that’s predominantly stacked with Christians too, having two justices who are Jewish, and the rest entirely Christians.

If religious liberty is "disappearing", and Christianity is in danger of extinction in America, then Christians are certainly a self-destructive lot - because America is near-entirely controlled by Christians.

But, you see, America isn't becoming hostile towards Christians - it's just had its fill of religious bullies. No one give so much as a single fuck if one is a practicing Christian. There’s no movement to banish churches and put them under government regulation like in China. No one is stopping Christians from gathering together with other believers, from feeding the poor, or even from standing on the street corner with obnoxious signs that say “God hates f*gs!”

Religious freedom, freedom of speech, and the right to assemble are all alive, and well in the United States. These freedoms are not just tolerated; they are embraced. What is not embraced, and what America is becoming increasingly hostile towards, are Christian extremists trying to institute their own version of sharia law that infringes on the rights and liberties of the rest of us. There’s a huge difference between freedom to practice one’s religion in a pluralistic society where we all equally have that right, versus enshrining one’s religious views in laws that are imposed on the rest of us. Just as there is a difference between saying that you want to be free and not forced to marry someone of the same sex, versus wanting to deny that right to someone else you don’t even know. Again, there is a difference between wanting the freedom to own a business and conduct commerce freely in the public square, versus demanding to run a business that discriminates and infringes on the basic rights and dignities of anyone whose personal choices one finds distasteful.

The irony is that the extremists, and politicians would have everyone believe that this is a fight between the "godless", and the believers. Refer back to my paragraph describing just how much political power Christians hold. It isn't atheists, pagans, or other no-Christians opposing these draconian attempts to control the lives of others; it. Is. Christians who have said, "Enough is enough,"

No one is trying to stop you from being a Christian. The country is not growing hostile towards Christians. It’s just growing hostile towards extremist, religious bullies, who are trying to hijack the nation and force everyone to live under their own set of morals and ethics.

Well said. You then have to ask who is brainwashing these people to believe something that is the opposite of the truth, and what do they get out of doing that. Who benefits from making 'christians' afraid every day of their waking life.

A local yocal on the city council recently introduced a bill to put 'in god we trust' on the wall of city hall. How about you put 'in god we trust' on the wall of your house or your church. Stop cramming your religion down everyone else's throat.

How about if one put "In God we Trust" up next to a "Christians are responsible for all the evil in the world" sign at a protest? Is that cramming their religion down your throat?

How about we not imply that the nation Trusts in God?

The real question is why does such an innocuous phrase bother you so much? That is the question you should be asking yourself. It obviously doesn't bother most, hell the only thing I look at when handling my money is the denominations.

I think I explained that. It's not an "innocuous phrase". E Pluribus Unim is an innocuous phrase. "In God we trust" is a statement of faith. when placed on government buildings, and our currency, it is a statement of faith that is being made on behalf of every single citizen of the United States. You said it yourself, we are a representative republic. That means that anything the government says, it says for all of us. In the case of "In God we trust:, the government isn't speaking for all of us, yet we are supposed to just sit down, shut up, and pretend that it is. Sorry. I will not sit down. I will not shut up. I will not pretend that staqtement of faith represents my position.

Once again, myself (and I suspect the VAST majority of Americans) only look at the denominations marked on monies so it doesn't bother us. You are part of a vocal minority, such is your right and I never said you should sit down and shut up, just the opposite. Welcome to freedom.......

 

[BuckToothMoron]

"America is becoming hostile towards Christians!" This seems to be becoming the most popular battle cry of the religious right of late. A growing number of Christians– a shocking amount, actually– are convinced that America’s glory days are over and that Christians are now a marginalized group on the verge of having all of their rights stripped away. right-wing politicians and religious talking-heads like Franklin Graham are trying to convince people that “religious liberty” is not only being threatened, but on the verge of disappearing.

Really? Disappearing? Recent polls show that around 83% of Americans are Christians. That long line of U.S presidents stemming back to the founding of the nation? Well, except for Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, all of them were professing Christians to varying degrees. And Congress? You know, the people who actually make the laws we live by in America? Well, that group of people is actually 91.8% Christian. And let’s not forget the Supreme Court, the body that decides which laws are constitutional and which ones are not– that’s predominantly stacked with Christians too, having two justices who are Jewish, and the rest entirely Christians.

If religious liberty is "disappearing", and Christianity is in danger of extinction in America, then Christians are certainly a self-destructive lot - because America is near-entirely controlled by Christians.

But, you see, America isn't becoming hostile towards Christians - it's just had its fill of religious bullies. No one give so much as a single fuck if one is a practicing Christian. There’s no movement to banish churches and put them under government regulation like in China. No one is stopping Christians from gathering together with other believers, from feeding the poor, or even from standing on the street corner with obnoxious signs that say “God hates f*gs!”

Religious freedom, freedom of speech, and the right to assemble are all alive, and well in the United States. These freedoms are not just tolerated; they are embraced. What is not embraced, and what America is becoming increasingly hostile towards, are Christian extremists trying to institute their own version of sharia law that infringes on the rights and liberties of the rest of us. There’s a huge difference between freedom to practice one’s religion in a pluralistic society where we all equally have that right, versus enshrining one’s religious views in laws that are imposed on the rest of us. Just as there is a difference between saying that you want to be free and not forced to marry someone of the same sex, versus wanting to deny that right to someone else you don’t even know. Again, there is a difference between wanting the freedom to own a business and conduct commerce freely in the public square, versus demanding to run a business that discriminates and infringes on the basic rights and dignities of anyone whose personal choices one finds distasteful.

The irony is that the extremists, and politicians would have everyone believe that this is a fight between the "godless", and the believers. Refer back to my paragraph describing just how much political power Christians hold. It isn't atheists, pagans, or other no-Christians opposing these draconian attempts to control the lives of others; it. Is. Christians who have said, "Enough is enough,"

No one is trying to stop you from being a Christian. The country is not growing hostile towards Christians. It’s just growing hostile towards extremist, religious bullies, who are trying to hijack the nation and force everyone to live under their own set of morals and ethics.

Well done, I love a good rationalization.

Not entirely sure what you mean by that.

Let me help then.

ra·tion·al·i·za·tion

/ˌraSH(ə)n(ə)ləˈzāSH(ə)n,ˌraSH(ə)n(ə)līˈzāSH(ə)n/

noun

noun: rationalization; plural noun: rationalizations; noun: rationalisation; plural noun: rationalisations

1. the action of attempting to explain or justify behavior or an attitude with logical reasons, even if these are not appropriate.
"most people are prone to self-deceptive rationalization"

And who do you porpose are the ones who are "rationalising"? Me, or those who insist that "America is growing hostile to Christians"?

Both to differing degrees, it's a highly politicized issue, some choose to view it a pervasive, others like you choose to view it differently, both views are highly subjective based on pre-existing bias which obviously leads to self rationalizations. As with most highly politicized issues the reality is frequently somewhere in the middle.

Fair warning RINGEL05- You are engaging in what you suspect is a rational discussion, but I'll bet you lose some hair before you throw your hands in the air and give up.

 

[Ringel05]

Well done, I love a good rationalization.

Not entirely sure what you mean by that.

Let me help then.

ra·tion·al·i·za·tion

/ˌraSH(ə)n(ə)ləˈzāSH(ə)n,ˌraSH(ə)n(ə)līˈzāSH(ə)n/

noun

noun: rationalization; plural noun: rationalizations; noun: rationalisation; plural noun: rationalisations

1. the action of attempting to explain or justify behavior or an attitude with logical reasons, even if these are not appropriate.
"most people are prone to self-deceptive rationalization"

And who do you porpose are the ones who are "rationalising"? Me, or those who insist that "America is growing hostile to Christians"?

Both to differing degrees, it's a highly politicized issue, some choose to view it a pervasive, others like you choose to view it differently, both views are highly subjective based on pre-existing bias which obviously leads to self rationalizations. As with most highly politicized issues the reality is frequently somewhere in the middle.

Fair warning RINGEL05- You are engaging in what you suspect is a rational discussion, but I'll bet you lose some hair before you throw your hands in the air and give up.

No, none of it gets to me, it is what it is. Besides the only hair I have to pull out is facial....... and in/on my ears..........