America Founded as a Christian Nation

[Porter Rockwell]

MERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION IV

In this summation of the founding of America as a Christian nation, we've been looking at the United States Supreme Court Justices. We covered the Chief Justices that the founders / framers appointed and now I'm starting with some of those that Washington appointed. The first one, William Cushing provides a counter balance to Jefferson, who was just one founder. According to Wikipedia about Cushing:

" He generally held a nationalist view typically in line with the views of the Federalist Party, and often disagreed with Thomas Jefferson's Democratic-Republicans."

William Cushing - Wikipedia

I found little about Cushing save of this in a very brief look into his background:

"American jurist who was the first appointee to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Cushing graduated from Harvard in 1751"

William Cushing | United States jurist


Harvard was founded as a Christian college. According to Wikipedia:

"The early motto of Harvard was Veritas Christo et Ecclesiae, meaning "Truth for Christ and the Church". In the early classes, half the graduates became ministers (though by the 1760s the proportion was down to 15%) and ten of Harvard's first twelve presidents were ministers. Systematic theological instruction was inaugurated in 1721 and by 1827 Harvard became a nucleus of theological teaching in New England"

History of Harvard University - Wikipedia

Safe to say Cushing was influenced by Christianity.

James Wilson, another Washington Supreme Court appointee:

"He changed his practicing religion from Presbyterian to Episcopalian"and in 1779 became the advocate general for France in America.

James Wilson | The Society of the Descendants of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence

Although John Blair received a Christian education, his grand uncle being the founder of William and Mary College, Blair was a Freemason, so score one for the "Deists."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Blair_Jr.

As we make this journey, we aren't so much concerned as to who was what so much as we are concerned with the final product. What did America become?

are you saying that the founding fathers were tyrannical dictators who DEMANDED that every generation of Americans following them FOREVER MUST be the same religion as they were?

Are you saying that because some of them were christians then we ALL Must be christian?

or we ALL must follow christian law?

Give it up sockpuppet. NOTFOOLEDBYW, you are not fooling anyone. Do you really think that 1172 posts into this thread, some guy is really going to jump in the conversation, AFTER all that has been said and not have enough common sense to read the first freaking post? IF someone did exist like that, they would be a fucking idiot.

You're not fooling anyone with these posts. They have nothing to do with the OP NOR with the previous ten posts I've made. Try again troll. Still living in your head, rent free. How many accounts to you have here anyway?

At least try to be original and have something pertaining to the topic if you're going to post.

OMG...LOL.....

you aren't just a typical deranged conservative....you are insane!

Not so freaking deranged that I need multiple accounts to respond to a single poster. You didn't start posting off topics attacks by coincidence and I'm NOTFOOLED... by you.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I want you to have access to some of the major Charters, Compacts, etc. that lead up to our values as a nation. So, I will list some more you can access to see that the colonies were founded on Christian principles consistent with the OP.

You may want to Google The Charter of Maryland of 1632, Grant Of The Province Of New Hampshire To Mr. Mason of 22 April 1635, Fundamental Orders of Connecticut 1638 – 1639, Agreement of the Settlers At Exeter in New Hampshire of 1639Fundamental Agreement Of The Colony Of New Haven june 4, 1639, Grant Of The Province Of Maine 1639, Massachusetts Body Of Liberties 1641, and I will quote some of the others in posts to come along with the language that unequivocally proves that the colonies were all based upon the Bible.

The earliest state constitutions made it clear as well that America was founded as a Christian nation. For example, the Constitution of Connecticut of 1776:

Art. 22. Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust, before taking his seat, or entering upon the execution of his office, shall take the following oath, or affirmation, if conscientiously scrupulous of taking an oath, to wit:

” I, A B. will bear true allegiance to the Delaware State, submit to its constitution and laws, and do no act wittingly whereby the freedom thereof may be prejudiced.”

And also make and subscribe the following declaration, to wit:

” I, A B. do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration.”

Similar language will be found in the state constitutions of Delaware (1776), Georgia (1777), Maryland (1776), Constitution or Form of Government for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (1780), New Hampshire (1784), New Jersey (1776) New York (1777), North Carolina (1776) Pennsylvania (1776), South Carolina (1778) Vermont (1777), and Virginia (1777.) If you want the exact language of any of those state constitutions, let me know which one and I will post the applicable section(s.)

By the time we get to the United States Constitution, the atheists and unbelievers cannot find any Christian influence therein. I mentioned all the aforementioned state constitutions for a reason. ALL of them have sections requiring a person to take an oath in order to hold elective office. Now, let me quote from the Constitution of the United States:

“The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” Article VI Paragraph III of the U.S. Constitution

There is a difference between an oath and a test. A religious test is prohibited. An oath is NOT prohibited and most state constitutions required one to be a Christian in order to hold public office. Feel free to Google any of the above earliest state constitutions to verify that. I will do more posts a little later showing you Christian principles in the Constitution and debunking the critics most oft used ruses.

"most state constitutions required one to be a Christian in order to hold public office"

true long ago but I'm sure no state does that anymore.

unconstitutional, anyway.

and those were STATES, NOT the USA.

Blah, blah, blah... Come on NOTFOOLED. Really? Try and see if you can make another troll post, sockpuppet, that is relevant to the OP.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION

In closing this thread out, I might as well make the points I was going to make. The consummate troll that destroyed ALL his credibility and pretended he was qualified to judge me wants to now be proven wrong in ways that he had not intended. So, we can summarize over 1000 posts in about thirty six paragraphs. Every time the troll posts, we will start over until all three segments appear and then we can repeat them each and every day until he finds someone that might tolerate him. He wants someone to validate him; I'm satisfied with the facts collected here. They simply need to be put into a summation.

In the course of this thread we found a lot of dishonest people, uneducated people, and many partisan hacks on the Internet. The misinformation was much more prevalent than the correct information. The correct information was spread out, so let us begin once more:

The founders did not want a theocracy. They DID want a constitutional Republic dedicated to the principles of Liberty. The First Amendment states:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

The Congress of the United States is NOT the several states. Congress is not the legislatures in the states. Congress is not the direct voice of the citizenry. The fact that every state constitution did have a reference to Christianity before, during and after the ratification of the United States Constitution should signal to any honest observer of history that Christians would not have signed onto any form of government that would marginalize the cultural, ethnic, and national ties that bound us together as a people. That alone makes zero sense.

There was no need to create a theocracy in America because the people rejected the idea of a King. They wanted religious Liberty, but at the same time, they did not want to alter their identity, as a people and they could not fathom a nation without their God. Modern researchers look at the founding documents and the language of the day, falsely proclaiming that there are no references to our Christian identity therein. Really? Let us start with the Declaration of Independence: We have a reference to a "Nature's God," and a "Creator" in the first two paragraphs. That document ends by talking about the "Supreme Judge of the world" AND then the signatories relied on a "firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence." I would submit to you that, based on the language used in those times, that this is in reference to a Christian God. This is confirmed by the language used in John Winthrop's sermon "A Model of Christian Charity" which was referenced in the first post on this thread. Therein, Winthrop used the following language:

"GOD ALMIGHTY in His most holy and wise providence
...glory of his Creator
... Law of Nature"

These are used in the first two pages of the sermon and not one, single, solitary reference to Jesus Christ. Our forefathers did not lace every sentence with HIS holy name just to wear their religion on their sleeves. We check the sermons of the time period and find that the language used in the Declaration of Independence was consistent with the language used to express a belief in a Christian God. AND there is NO WAY you avoid that reliance on "Divine Providence." That is a reference to the divinity. Period.

The next founding document associated with the founding is the 1783 Treaty of Paris. That treaty ended the American Revolutionary War. The signatories to that legal document are bound thereby. Let us see some of its language:

"In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.

It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the Hearts of the most Serene and most Potent Prince George the Third, by the Grace of God, King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, Duke of Brunswick and Lunebourg, Arch- Treasurer and Prince Elector of the Holy Roman Empire etc."

And it ends

"Done at Paris, this third day of September in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-three.

D. HARTLEY
JOHN ADAMS
B. FRANKLIN
JOHN JAY"

It is the argument of uneducated men that our forefathers had such an aversion to Christianity that they wanted a non-religious people. Yet these alleged secularists, deists, theists, atheists, and other alleged non-believers signed their names to legal documents acknowledging a Christian God.

Part 2 of this series of posts to follow

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION II

Uninformed writers, even a few Christians claim there is no Christian influence in the Constitution of the United States. Because the document does not call for a theocracy; because it is not laced with affirmations regarding Jesus Christ, the see it as being religion neutral. They are either ignorant or dishonest. The document is a reflection of the people it represented.

There is no established religion, but the values of Christians are very well represented in that document. The most glaring example is the ":Sunday exception rule" :

"If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a law, in like Manner as if he had signed it . . . " Article I Section 7

Bring this one up and you get a long harangue about the debates that centered on this with all kinds of theories parading as logic, but just because Masons, secularists, and even American Indian influences were present in the Constitutional Convention, the ONLY thing that matters is the final product.

And, again, ALL of the signatories signed their name to a legal document (the Constitution) acknowledging a Christian God:

"done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth..."

Admittedly, the intent would be murky except for the fact that the presidents who were founders appointed people to the United States Supreme Court before the American Bar Association was founded in 1875. Sooo... those Justices were were more in sync with the president than they are even today.

John Jay, the FIRST Justice ever appointed (1789) had this to say:

“Providence has given our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Oct. 12, 1816, in a statement, The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry Johnston, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.318

Source: Quotation by John Jay

There will be many more entries until I finish and put this all in one spot on this thread. The troll be damned.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION III

As we continue on, I find that this may be a daily ritual until the troll is buried under a mountain of truth whilst he makes his case predicated on the words of a single founder - a conflicted man that contradicted his own writings, depending upon where he stood at any given moment.

We have examined the three most important documents: The Declaration of Independence, The Treaty of Paris 1783 that ended the American Revolutionary War and the Constitution, noting the Christian influence in each of these documents. We created a nation of Christians with Christian values as our measuring rod and a legal system that used biblical principles to differentiate right from wrong; good from evil; etc.


I also pointed out that the presidents that we count as founding fathers nominated men to the United States Supreme Court to interpret the law. the only thing more authoritative than their opinions about the law were actual court rulings. So, until we reach the time when an actual ruling is made, their opinions are more authoritative than even select quotes from the founders since they left the United States Supreme Court in charge of interpreting what the Constitution means. I've quoted the first United States Supreme Court Justice ever appointed. Let's do a couple more:

John Rutledge would be the second person to be nominated, but he doesn't count as he was not confirmed by the Senate. Then came Oliver Ellsworth. According to Wikipedia:

"Once the Judiciary Act was adopted by the Senate, Ellsworth sponsored the Senate's acceptance of the Bill of Rights promoted by Madison in the House of Representatives. Significantly, Madison sponsored the Judiciary Act in the House at the same time. Combined, the Judiciary Act and Bill of Rights gave the Constitution the "teeth" that had been missing in the Articles of Confederation. Judicial Review guaranteed the federal government's sovereignty, whereas the Bill of Rights guaranteed the protection of states and citizens from the misuse of this sovereignty by the federal government.

...However, with the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1865, seventy-five years later, the Bill of Rights could be brought to bear at all levels of government as interpreted by the judiciary with final appeal to the Supreme Court. Needless to say, this had not been the original intention of either Madison or Ellsworth.

Oliver Ellsworth - Wikipedia

This is important to note because before the illegal ratification of the 14th Amendment, many states required office holders to take an oath that they believed in the Christian faith. Since it was an oath and NOT a test, this was constitutional and the states remained culturally Christian; hence, we were a Christian nation.

The Fourth Chief Justice, nominated by John Adams was the very articulate John Marshall. He is the Justice who once said that "the power to tax is the power to destroy." He also said that "a legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law." The quote I'm most impressed with relative to this conversation is:

“What are the maxims of Democracy? A strict observance of justice and public faith, and a steady adherence to virtue.”

Source: Top 30 quotes of JOHN MARSHALL famous quotes and sayings | inspringquotes.us

John Marshall, appointed by founder and framer John Adams had this to say:


"No person, I believe, questions the importance of religion to the happiness of man even during his existence in this world. It has at all times employed his most serious meditation, and had a decided influence on his conduct.

The American population is entirely Christian, and with us, Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange, indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it."

John Marshall: The American population is entirely Christian, and with us, Christianity and Religion are identified » Sons of Liberty Media

I'm an anti-federalist, but there is no doubt that Marshall understood that, as a people, the United States IS a Christian nation.

We are not done.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION IV

In this summation of the founding of America as a Christian nation, we've been looking at the United States Supreme Court Justices. We covered the Chief Justices that the founders / framers appointed and now I'm starting with some of those that Washington appointed. The first one, William Cushing provides a counter balance to Jefferson, who was just one founder. According to Wikipedia about Cushing:

" He generally held a nationalist view typically in line with the views of the Federalist Party, and often disagreed with Thomas Jefferson's Democratic-Republicans."

William Cushing - Wikipedia

I found little about Cushing save of this in a very brief look into his background:

"American jurist who was the first appointee to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Cushing graduated from Harvard in 1751"

William Cushing | United States jurist


Harvard was founded as a Christian college. According to Wikipedia:

"The early motto of Harvard was Veritas Christo et Ecclesiae, meaning "Truth for Christ and the Church". In the early classes, half the graduates became ministers (though by the 1760s the proportion was down to 15%) and ten of Harvard's first twelve presidents were ministers. Systematic theological instruction was inaugurated in 1721 and by 1827 Harvard became a nucleus of theological teaching in New England"

History of Harvard University - Wikipedia

Safe to say Cushing was influenced by Christianity.

James Wilson, another Washington Supreme Court appointee:

"He changed his practicing religion from Presbyterian to Episcopalian"and in 1779 became the advocate general for France in America.

James Wilson | The Society of the Descendants of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence

Although John Blair received a Christian education, his grand uncle being the founder of William and Mary College, Blair was a Freemason, so score one for the "Deists."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Blair_Jr.

As we make this journey, we aren't so much concerned as to who was what so much as we are concerned with the final product. What did America become?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION V


I'm still working to show WHO the founders / framers nominated to the United States Supreme Court. And very quickly, picking back up with Washington, who unfortunately was a Freemason (so not very objective on some spiritual matters), he nonetheless nominated James Iredell who is described as:

"The grandson of a clergyman, he was a devout Anglican throughout his life and his writings display an interest in spirituality and metaphysics beyond a simple attachment to organized religion."

James Iredell - Wikipedia

Thomas Johnson was only on the job 163 days so that is insignificant.

William Paterson, another Washington appointee said:

“Religion and morality...{are} necessary to good government, good order, and good laws.” (Maeva Marcus. The Documentary History of the Supreme Court of the United States 1789-1800. New York: Columbia University Press. 1988. Vol III pg 436)
Secondary Source: http://camphillchurch.org/publication_files/the-coping-christian---pt-4.pdf

Samuel Chase (the last of Washington's Supreme Court Justices) was born April 17, 1741, the son of Anglican clergyman Rev. Thomas Chase, and was home-schooled till age 18.

... he founded a Maryland chapter of the Sons of Liberty to protest The Stamp Act of 1765 and the British Government's usurpation of citizen's rights. He was also a signer of the Declaration of Independence.

Justice Samuel Chase rendered the court's decision in the Maryland Supreme Court case of Runkel v. Winemiller, 1799:

" Religion is of general and public concern, and on its support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people.

By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion;

and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty."

Supreme Court Justice Samuel Chase, 1799, "the Christian religion is the established religion, and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing..."

So, Maryland was officially declared Christian - seems the states were not quite familiar with that so - called "separation of church and state" at the STATE level.

Ant that was Washington's court nominees. Let's look at another president's nominees in my next installment.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#1228 reply to #1216.

The earliest state constitutions made it clear as well that America was founded as a Christian nation.

#1228 Our founders were men whose young minds were formed in a new Age of Reason being joined with men of longer established Protestant Christian religion who eventually unified and uniquely decided to create a secular government to represent a religious and free people.

Therefore .....

• By the early 1830s, all states—the original thirteen colonies and new states admitted after independence—were formally disestablished via constitutional provision. States admitted thereafter included such provisions in their initial constitutions.https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/abfe/1b5cad94e97aa45a09c4f6781cdf851c10f5.pdf

It worked. The states followed the founders’ lead.

But Porter Rockwell is blind to the uniqueness and the miracle that took place in those thirteen colonies between those fifteen years from 1776 to 1791.

He wants America to be a Protestant Christian result. Little credit to what coaxed Christianity out of its persistent dogmatism during those fifteen years.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION VI

The sad part of having to keep repeating this is that the troll and his sockpuppets have not responded to the OP one single time. This is not about what they think America is today; it's not about a USA Theorcacy or their delusions of a secular nation... AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION.

Let us continue on:

Alfred Moore was one of Jefferson's picks on the United States Supreme Court.

"Moore is noted for having written just one opinion for the Court during his term of service:"

Alfred Moore - Wikipedia

The rest of the Justices and their religious affiliation is located at:

Religion of the Supreme Court

The most notable of the United States Supreme Court Justices that were close to the founders / framers was Joseph Story. Story was what legends are made of. He was nominated to the Court by President Madison.

"His father was Dr. Elisha Story, a member of the Sons of Liberty who took part in the Boston Tea Party in 1773

He graduated from Harvard ( A Christian college) in 1798, second in his class behind William Ellery Channing; he noted that his graduation was with "many bitter tears

...In November 15, 1811, at the age of 32 years, 58 days, Story became—and, as of 2019 remains—the youngest person nominated to serve on the U.S. Supreme Court."

Joseph Story - Wikipedia

The note I end this portion of the thread is a quote from one of Story's rulings:

" Christianity...is not to be maliciously and openly reviled and blasphemed against, to the annoyance of believers or the injury of the public....

It is unnecessary for us, however, to consider the establishment of a school or college, for the propagation of...Deism, or any other form of infidelity.

Such a case is not to be presumed to exist in a Christian country..."
Vidal v. Girard's Executors, 1844

Imagine a Supreme Court Justice like THIS! -Justice Joseph Story "The real object of the FIRST AMENDMENT was not to...advance Mohammedanism...or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity, but to..."

It seems that I keep finding cases to dismantle the liberals arguments with.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION

In closing this thread out, I might as well make the points I was going to make. The consummate troll that destroyed ALL his credibility and pretended he was qualified to judge me wants to now be proven wrong in ways that he had not intended. So, we can summarize over 1000 posts in about thirty six paragraphs. Every time the troll posts, we will start over until all three segments appear and then we can repeat them each and every day until he finds someone that might tolerate him. He wants someone to validate him; I'm satisfied with the facts collected here. They simply need to be put into a summation.

In the course of this thread we found a lot of dishonest people, uneducated people, and many partisan hacks on the Internet. The misinformation was much more prevalent than the correct information. The correct information was spread out, so let us begin once more:

The founders did not want a theocracy. They DID want a constitutional Republic dedicated to the principles of Liberty. The First Amendment states:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

The Congress of the United States is NOT the several states. Congress is not the legislatures in the states. Congress is not the direct voice of the citizenry. The fact that every state constitution did have a reference to Christianity before, during and after the ratification of the United States Constitution should signal to any honest observer of history that Christians would not have signed onto any form of government that would marginalize the cultural, ethnic, and national ties that bound us together as a people. That alone makes zero sense.

There was no need to create a theocracy in America because the people rejected the idea of a King. They wanted religious Liberty, but at the same time, they did not want to alter their identity, as a people and they could not fathom a nation without their God. Modern researchers look at the founding documents and the language of the day, falsely proclaiming that there are no references to our Christian identity therein. Really? Let us start with the Declaration of Independence: We have a reference to a "Nature's God," and a "Creator" in the first two paragraphs. That document ends by talking about the "Supreme Judge of the world" AND then the signatories relied on a "firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence." I would submit to you that, based on the language used in those times, that this is in reference to a Christian God. This is confirmed by the language used in John Winthrop's sermon "A Model of Christian Charity" which was referenced in the first post on this thread. Therein, Winthrop used the following language:

"GOD ALMIGHTY in His most holy and wise providence
...glory of his Creator
... Law of Nature"

These are used in the first two pages of the sermon and not one, single, solitary reference to Jesus Christ. Our forefathers did not lace every sentence with HIS holy name just to wear their religion on their sleeves. We check the sermons of the time period and find that the language used in the Declaration of Independence was consistent with the language used to express a belief in a Christian God. AND there is NO WAY you avoid that reliance on "Divine Providence." That is a reference to the divinity. Period.

The next founding document associated with the founding is the 1783 Treaty of Paris. That treaty ended the American Revolutionary War. The signatories to that legal document are bound thereby. Let us see some of its language:

"In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.

It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the Hearts of the most Serene and most Potent Prince George the Third, by the Grace of God, King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, Duke of Brunswick and Lunebourg, Arch- Treasurer and Prince Elector of the Holy Roman Empire etc."

And it ends

"Done at Paris, this third day of September in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-three.

D. HARTLEY
JOHN ADAMS
B. FRANKLIN
JOHN JAY"

It is the argument of uneducated men that our forefathers had such an aversion to Christianity that they wanted a non-religious people. Yet these alleged secularists, deists, theists, atheists, and other alleged non-believers signed their names to legal documents acknowledging a Christian God.

Part 2 of this series of posts to follow

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION II

Uninformed writers, even a few Christians claim there is no Christian influence in the Constitution of the United States. Because the document does not call for a theocracy; because it is not laced with affirmations regarding Jesus Christ, the see it as being religion neutral. They are either ignorant or dishonest. The document is a reflection of the people it represented.

There is no established religion, but the values of Christians are very well represented in that document. The most glaring example is the ":Sunday exception rule" :

"If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a law, in like Manner as if he had signed it . . . " Article I Section 7

Bring this one up and you get a long harangue about the debates that centered on this with all kinds of theories parading as logic, but just because Masons, secularists, and even American Indian influences were present in the Constitutional Convention, the ONLY thing that matters is the final product.

And, again, ALL of the signatories signed their name to a legal document (the Constitution) acknowledging a Christian God:

"done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth..."

Admittedly, the intent would be murky except for the fact that the presidents who were founders appointed people to the United States Supreme Court before the American Bar Association was founded in 1875. Sooo... those Justices were were more in sync with the president than they are even today.

John Jay, the FIRST Justice ever appointed (1789) had this to say:

“Providence has given our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Oct. 12, 1816, in a statement, The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry Johnston, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.318

Source: Quotation by John Jay

There will be many more entries until I finish and put this all in one spot on this thread. The troll be damned.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION III

As we continue on, I find that this may be a daily ritual until the troll is buried under a mountain of truth whilst he makes his case predicated on the words of a single founder - a conflicted man that contradicted his own writings, depending upon where he stood at any given moment.

We have examined the three most important documents: The Declaration of Independence, The Treaty of Paris 1783 that ended the American Revolutionary War and the Constitution, noting the Christian influence in each of these documents. We created a nation of Christians with Christian values as our measuring rod and a legal system that used biblical principles to differentiate right from wrong; good from evil; etc.


I also pointed out that the presidents that we count as founding fathers nominated men to the United States Supreme Court to interpret the law. the only thing more authoritative than their opinions about the law were actual court rulings. So, until we reach the time when an actual ruling is made, their opinions are more authoritative than even select quotes from the founders since they left the United States Supreme Court in charge of interpreting what the Constitution means. I've quoted the first United States Supreme Court Justice ever appointed. Let's do a couple more:

John Rutledge would be the second person to be nominated, but he doesn't count as he was not confirmed by the Senate. Then came Oliver Ellsworth. According to Wikipedia:

"Once the Judiciary Act was adopted by the Senate, Ellsworth sponsored the Senate's acceptance of the Bill of Rights promoted by Madison in the House of Representatives. Significantly, Madison sponsored the Judiciary Act in the House at the same time. Combined, the Judiciary Act and Bill of Rights gave the Constitution the "teeth" that had been missing in the Articles of Confederation. Judicial Review guaranteed the federal government's sovereignty, whereas the Bill of Rights guaranteed the protection of states and citizens from the misuse of this sovereignty by the federal government.

...However, with the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1865, seventy-five years later, the Bill of Rights could be brought to bear at all levels of government as interpreted by the judiciary with final appeal to the Supreme Court. Needless to say, this had not been the original intention of either Madison or Ellsworth.

Oliver Ellsworth - Wikipedia

This is important to note because before the illegal ratification of the 14th Amendment, many states required office holders to take an oath that they believed in the Christian faith. Since it was an oath and NOT a test, this was constitutional and the states remained culturally Christian; hence, we were a Christian nation.

The Fourth Chief Justice, nominated by John Adams was the very articulate John Marshall. He is the Justice who once said that "the power to tax is the power to destroy." He also said that "a legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law." The quote I'm most impressed with relative to this conversation is:

“What are the maxims of Democracy? A strict observance of justice and public faith, and a steady adherence to virtue.”

Source: Top 30 quotes of JOHN MARSHALL famous quotes and sayings | inspringquotes.us

John Marshall, appointed by founder and framer John Adams had this to say:


"No person, I believe, questions the importance of religion to the happiness of man even during his existence in this world. It has at all times employed his most serious meditation, and had a decided influence on his conduct.

The American population is entirely Christian, and with us, Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange, indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it."

John Marshall: The American population is entirely Christian, and with us, Christianity and Religion are identified » Sons of Liberty Media

I'm an anti-federalist, but there is no doubt that Marshall understood that, as a people, the United States IS a Christian nation.

We are not done.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

1. AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION IV
   
   In this summation of the founding of America as a Christian nation, we've been looking at the United States Supreme Court Justices. We covered the Chief Justices that the founders / framers appointed and now I'm starting with some of those that Washington appointed. The first one, William Cushing provides a counter balance to Jefferson, who was just one founder. According to Wikipedia about Cushing:
   
   " He generally held a nationalist view typically in line with the views of the Federalist Party, and often disagreed with Thomas Jefferson's Democratic-Republicans."
   
   William Cushing - Wikipedia
   
   I found little about Cushing save of this in a very brief look into his background:
   
   "American jurist who was the first appointee to the U.S. Supreme Court.
   
   Cushing graduated from Harvard in 1751"
   
   William Cushing | United States jurist
   
   
   Harvard was founded as a Christian college. According to Wikipedia:
   
   "The early motto of Harvard was Veritas Christo et Ecclesiae, meaning "Truth for Christ and the Church". In the early classes, half the graduates became ministers (though by the 1760s the proportion was down to 15%) and ten of Harvard's first twelve presidents were ministers. Systematic theological instruction was inaugurated in 1721 and by 1827 Harvard became a nucleus of theological teaching in New England"
   
   History of Harvard University - Wikipedia
   
   Safe to say Cushing was influenced by Christianity.
   
   James Wilson, another Washington Supreme Court appointee:
   
   "He changed his practicing religion from Presbyterian to Episcopalian"and in 1779 became the advocate general for France in America.
   
   James Wilson | The Society of the Descendants of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence
   
   Although John Blair received a Christian education, his grand uncle being the founder of William and Mary College, Blair was a Freemason, so score one for the "Deists."
   
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Blair_Jr.
   
   As we make this journey, we aren't so much concerned as to who was what so much as we are concerned with the final product. What did America become?
   
   
   

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION V


I'm still working to show WHO the founders / framers nominated to the United States Supreme Court. And very quickly, picking back up with Washington, who unfortunately was a Freemason (so not very objective on some spiritual matters), he nonetheless nominated James Iredell who is described as:

"The grandson of a clergyman, he was a devout Anglican throughout his life and his writings display an interest in spirituality and metaphysics beyond a simple attachment to organized religion."

James Iredell - Wikipedia

Thomas Johnson was only on the job 163 days so that is insignificant.

William Paterson, another Washington appointee said:


“Religion and morality...{are} necessary to good government, good order, and good laws.” (Maeva Marcus. The Documentary History of the Supreme Court of the United States 1789-1800. New York: Columbia University Press. 1988. Vol III pg 436)
Secondary Source: http://camphillchurch.org/publication_files/the-coping-christian---pt-4.pdf

Samuel Chase (the last of Washington's Supreme Court Justices) was born April 17, 1741, the son of Anglican clergyman Rev. Thomas Chase, and was home-schooled till age 18.

... he founded a Maryland chapter of the Sons of Liberty to protest The Stamp Act of 1765 and the British Government's usurpation of citizen's rights. He was also a signer of the Declaration of Independence.

Justice Samuel Chase rendered the court's decision in the Maryland Supreme Court case of Runkel v. Winemiller, 1799:

" Religion is of general and public concern, and on its support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people.

By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion;

and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty."

Supreme Court Justice Samuel Chase, 1799, "the Christian religion is the established religion, and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing..."

So, Maryland was officially declared Christian - seems the states were not quite familiar with that so - called "separation of church and state" at the STATE level.

Ant that was Washington's court nominees. Let's look at another president's nominees in my next installment.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION VI

CATCH PART 1 IN POST # 1230

The sad part of having to keep repeating this is that the troll and his sockpuppets have not responded to the OP one single time. This is not about what they think America is today; it's not about a USA Theorcacy or their delusions of a secular nation... AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION.

Let us continue on:

Alfred Moore was one of Jefferson's picks on the United States Supreme Court.

"Moore is noted for having written just one opinion for the Court during his term of service:"

Alfred Moore - Wikipedia

The rest of the Justices and their religious affiliation is located at:

Religion of the Supreme Court

The most notable of the United States Supreme Court Justices that were close to the founders / framers was Joseph Story. Story was what legends are made of. He was nominated to the Court by President Madison.

"His father was Dr. Elisha Story, a member of the Sons of Liberty who took part in the Boston Tea Party in 1773

He graduated from Harvard ( A Christian college) in 1798, second in his class behind William Ellery Channing; he noted that his graduation was with "many bitter tears

...In November 15, 1811, at the age of 32 years, 58 days, Story became—and, as of 2019 remains—the youngest person nominated to serve on the U.S. Supreme Court."

Joseph Story - Wikipedia

The note I end this portion of the thread is a quote from one of Story's rulings:

" Christianity...is not to be maliciously and openly reviled and blasphemed against, to the annoyance of believers or the injury of the public....

It is unnecessary for us, however, to consider the establishment of a school or college, for the propagation of...Deism, or any other form of infidelity.

Such a case is not to be presumed to exist in a Christian country..."
Vidal v. Girard's Executors, 1844

Imagine a Supreme Court Justice like THIS! -Justice Joseph Story "The real object of the FIRST AMENDMENT was not to...advance Mohammedanism...or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity, but to..."

It seems that I keep finding cases to dismantle the liberals arguments with

 

[BreezeWood]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION VI

CATCH PART 1 IN POST # 1230

The sad part of having to keep repeating this is that the troll and his sockpuppets have not responded to the OP one single time. This is not about what they think America is today; it's not about a USA Theorcacy or their delusions of a secular nation... AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION.

Let us continue on:

Alfred Moore was one of Jefferson's picks on the United States Supreme Court.

"Moore is noted for having written just one opinion for the Court during his term of service:"

Alfred Moore - Wikipedia

The rest of the Justices and their religious affiliation is located at:

Religion of the Supreme Court

The most notable of the United States Supreme Court Justices that were close to the founders / framers was Joseph Story. Story was what legends are made of. He was nominated to the Court by President Madison.

"His father was Dr. Elisha Story, a member of the Sons of Liberty who took part in the Boston Tea Party in 1773

He graduated from Harvard ( A Christian college) in 1798, second in his class behind William Ellery Channing; he noted that his graduation was with "many bitter tears

...In November 15, 1811, at the age of 32 years, 58 days, Story became—and, as of 2019 remains—the youngest person nominated to serve on the U.S. Supreme Court."

Joseph Story - Wikipedia

The note I end this portion of the thread is a quote from one of Story's rulings:

" Christianity...is not to be maliciously and openly reviled and blasphemed against, to the annoyance of believers or the injury of the public....

It is unnecessary for us, however, to consider the establishment of a school or college, for the propagation of...Deism, or any other form of infidelity.

Such a case is not to be presumed to exist in a Christian country..."
Vidal v. Girard's Executors, 1844

Imagine a Supreme Court Justice like THIS! -Justice Joseph Story "The real object of the FIRST AMENDMENT was not to...advance Mohammedanism...or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity, but to..."

It seems that I keep finding cases to dismantle the liberals arguments with

.

It seems that I keep finding cases to dismantle the liberals arguments with

to bad for you rockwell, the final document, u s constitution for its time was the epicenter of liberal intent tarnished only by the misogyny / bigotry of christianity the deletion of equality from the declaration of independence - being supposedly a silver lining that keeps your slim, conservative hopes of a christian founding a remote possibility that in reality most certainly was prevented from ever occurring.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#1237 reply to #1199

The men who signed their names to the Declaration of Independence, on the day they signed that document, acknowledged a Christian God. This is beyond dispute.

#1237. Only true if the Declaration of Independence contained the phrase.” I do hereby declare that I acknowledge my belief and my dutiful CHRISTIAN faith in the existence of the one and the only true Christian God” I don’t see that phrase or anything like it, anywhere in the Declaration nor do I see the word “Christ” or Christian “

The Declaration was written in compromise language that allowed each signer to pledge their demand for independence from a monarch who for most of their lives in the New World were forced to believe a king represented the Christian God on earth.,

In my opinion, in that sense the Declaration was a rejection of that Christian God tied to monarchy for ten centuries or more.

Nevertheless the Declaration led to our nation’s Constitution which never mentions any God, be it “Nature’s God” or “Providence” our what have you.

and for good reason:

The Constitution was reticent about religion for two reasons: first, many delegates were committed federalists, who believed that the power to legislate on religion, if it existed at all, lay within the domain of the state, not the national, governments; second, the delegates believed that it would be a tactical mistake to introduce such a politically controversial issue as religion into the Constitution. Religion and the Federal Government, Part 1 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic | Exhibitions (Library of Congress)
​

#1137 But just because it was religion neutral it does not mean it is irreligious and opposed to religion in any way.

That religion was not otherwise addressed in the Constitution did not make it an "irreligious" document any more than the Articles of Confederation was an "irreligious" document. The Constitution dealt with the church precisely as the Articles had, thereby maintaining, at the national level, the religious status quo. In neither document did the people yield any explicit power to act in the field of religion. But the absence of expressed powers did not prevent either the Continental-Confederation Congress or the Congress under the Constitution from sponsoring a program to support general, nonsectarian religion. Religion and the Constitution Religion and the Federal Government, Part 1 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic | Exhibitions (Library of Congress)
​

#1137. That Federalist leaning framers left individual states to decide their laws with regard to religious freedom that did not conform to the national central government’s limitations and restrictions on its own power? means exactly this,

America was not founded as a Christian NATION.

It was founded “religion neutral” as a nation that allowed a preference for Protestant Christianity to be preferred in and amongst the states.

And Virginia was the first state to be aligned with the Federal law on religious matters. Then the rest of the states eventually followed in Virginia’s freedom of religion footsteps.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION

In closing this thread out, I might as well make the points I was going to make. The consummate troll that destroyed ALL his credibility and pretended he was qualified to judge me wants to now be proven wrong in ways that he had not intended. So, we can summarize over 1000 posts in about thirty six paragraphs. Every time the troll posts, we will start over until all three segments appear and then we can repeat them each and every day until he finds someone that might tolerate him. He wants someone to validate him; I'm satisfied with the facts collected here. They simply need to be put into a summation.

In the course of this thread we found a lot of dishonest people, uneducated people, and many partisan hacks on the Internet. The misinformation was much more prevalent than the correct information. The correct information was spread out, so let us begin once more:

The founders did not want a theocracy. They DID want a constitutional Republic dedicated to the principles of Liberty. The First Amendment states:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

The Congress of the United States is NOT the several states. Congress is not the legislatures in the states. Congress is not the direct voice of the citizenry. The fact that every state constitution did have a reference to Christianity before, during and after the ratification of the United States Constitution should signal to any honest observer of history that Christians would not have signed onto any form of government that would marginalize the cultural, ethnic, and national ties that bound us together as a people. That alone makes zero sense.

There was no need to create a theocracy in America because the people rejected the idea of a King. They wanted religious Liberty, but at the same time, they did not want to alter their identity, as a people and they could not fathom a nation without their God. Modern researchers look at the founding documents and the language of the day, falsely proclaiming that there are no references to our Christian identity therein. Really? Let us start with the Declaration of Independence: We have a reference to a "Nature's God," and a "Creator" in the first two paragraphs. That document ends by talking about the "Supreme Judge of the world" AND then the signatories relied on a "firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence." I would submit to you that, based on the language used in those times, that this is in reference to a Christian God. This is confirmed by the language used in John Winthrop's sermon "A Model of Christian Charity" which was referenced in the first post on this thread. Therein, Winthrop used the following language:

"GOD ALMIGHTY in His most holy and wise providence
...glory of his Creator
... Law of Nature"

These are used in the first two pages of the sermon and not one, single, solitary reference to Jesus Christ. Our forefathers did not lace every sentence with HIS holy name just to wear their religion on their sleeves. We check the sermons of the time period and find that the language used in the Declaration of Independence was consistent with the language used to express a belief in a Christian God. AND there is NO WAY you avoid that reliance on "Divine Providence." That is a reference to the divinity. Period.

The next founding document associated with the founding is the 1783 Treaty of Paris. That treaty ended the American Revolutionary War. The signatories to that legal document are bound thereby. Let us see some of its language:

"In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.

It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the Hearts of the most Serene and most Potent Prince George the Third, by the Grace of God, King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, Duke of Brunswick and Lunebourg, Arch- Treasurer and Prince Elector of the Holy Roman Empire etc."

And it ends

"Done at Paris, this third day of September in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-three.

D. HARTLEY
JOHN ADAMS
B. FRANKLIN
JOHN JAY"

It is the argument of uneducated men that our forefathers had such an aversion to Christianity that they wanted a non-religious people. Yet these alleged secularists, deists, theists, atheists, and other alleged non-believers signed their names to legal documents acknowledging a Christian God.

Part 2 of this series of posts to follow

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION II

Uninformed writers, even a few Christians claim there is no Christian influence in the Constitution of the United States. Because the document does not call for a theocracy; because it is not laced with affirmations regarding Jesus Christ, the see it as being religion neutral. They are either ignorant or dishonest. The document is a reflection of the people it represented.

There is no established religion, but the values of Christians are very well represented in that document. The most glaring example is the ":Sunday exception rule" :

"If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a law, in like Manner as if he had signed it . . . " Article I Section 7

Bring this one up and you get a long harangue about the debates that centered on this with all kinds of theories parading as logic, but just because Masons, secularists, and even American Indian influences were present in the Constitutional Convention, the ONLY thing that matters is the final product.

And, again, ALL of the signatories signed their name to a legal document (the Constitution) acknowledging a Christian God:

"done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth..."

Admittedly, the intent would be murky except for the fact that the presidents who were founders appointed people to the United States Supreme Court before the American Bar Association was founded in 1875. Sooo... those Justices were were more in sync with the president than they are even today.

John Jay, the FIRST Justice ever appointed (1789) had this to say:

“Providence has given our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Oct. 12, 1816, in a statement, The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry Johnston, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.318

Source: Quotation by John Jay

There will be many more entries until I finish and put this all in one spot on this thread. The troll be damned.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION III

As we continue on, I find that this may be a daily ritual until the troll is buried under a mountain of truth whilst he makes his case predicated on the words of a single founder - a conflicted man that contradicted his own writings, depending upon where he stood at any given moment.

We have examined the three most important documents: The Declaration of Independence, The Treaty of Paris 1783 that ended the American Revolutionary War and the Constitution, noting the Christian influence in each of these documents. We created a nation of Christians with Christian values as our measuring rod and a legal system that used biblical principles to differentiate right from wrong; good from evil; etc.


I also pointed out that the presidents that we count as founding fathers nominated men to the United States Supreme Court to interpret the law. the only thing more authoritative than their opinions about the law were actual court rulings. So, until we reach the time when an actual ruling is made, their opinions are more authoritative than even select quotes from the founders since they left the United States Supreme Court in charge of interpreting what the Constitution means. I've quoted the first United States Supreme Court Justice ever appointed. Let's do a couple more:

John Rutledge would be the second person to be nominated, but he doesn't count as he was not confirmed by the Senate. Then came Oliver Ellsworth. According to Wikipedia:

"Once the Judiciary Act was adopted by the Senate, Ellsworth sponsored the Senate's acceptance of the Bill of Rights promoted by Madison in the House of Representatives. Significantly, Madison sponsored the Judiciary Act in the House at the same time. Combined, the Judiciary Act and Bill of Rights gave the Constitution the "teeth" that had been missing in the Articles of Confederation. Judicial Review guaranteed the federal government's sovereignty, whereas the Bill of Rights guaranteed the protection of states and citizens from the misuse of this sovereignty by the federal government.

...However, with the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1865, seventy-five years later, the Bill of Rights could be brought to bear at all levels of government as interpreted by the judiciary with final appeal to the Supreme Court. Needless to say, this had not been the original intention of either Madison or Ellsworth.

Oliver Ellsworth - Wikipedia

This is important to note because before the illegal ratification of the 14th Amendment, many states required office holders to take an oath that they believed in the Christian faith. Since it was an oath and NOT a test, this was constitutional and the states remained culturally Christian; hence, we were a Christian nation.

The Fourth Chief Justice, nominated by John Adams was the very articulate John Marshall. He is the Justice who once said that "the power to tax is the power to destroy." He also said that "a legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law." The quote I'm most impressed with relative to this conversation is:

“What are the maxims of Democracy? A strict observance of justice and public faith, and a steady adherence to virtue.”

Source: Top 30 quotes of JOHN MARSHALL famous quotes and sayings | inspringquotes.us

John Marshall, appointed by founder and framer John Adams had this to say:


"No person, I believe, questions the importance of religion to the happiness of man even during his existence in this world. It has at all times employed his most serious meditation, and had a decided influence on his conduct.

The American population is entirely Christian, and with us, Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange, indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it."

John Marshall: The American population is entirely Christian, and with us, Christianity and Religion are identified » Sons of Liberty Media

I'm an anti-federalist, but there is no doubt that Marshall understood that, as a people, the United States IS a Christian nation.

We are not done.