CDZ Alright, anti gunners. Explain the law or laws that will stop school shootings, here is your chance

[Mac1958]

A culture of hate breeds ?

And, bingo.

I've long believed that most of our problems are based in our culture. What we allow, what we forgive, what we ignore, what we enable, what we exacerbate.
.

 

[Circe]

I've long believed that most of our problems are based in our culture. What we allow, what we forgive, what we ignore, what we enable, what we exacerbate.

Agreed. We've been allowing crime and recidivist crime for decades now. If we stopped allowing it --- by catching people who obviously did the crime, like this Cruz kid, quickly trying them within a couple days to establish guilt, and within a week executing them, that would stop this. Most importantly, it would get rid of the criminals. We save and treasure and enable all criminals. We let them out to do their crimes again and again. That's what happened with this kid. He should never have been "helped," coddled, "reached out to," etc., etc. He was, in fact, a homicidal maniac, and those should not be protected and helped. They should be eliminated.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The gun lovers use sad situations like this to bolster their notion that they no are benign tools being misused by the mentally frazzled. Those of us without a love for guns and gun culture become calloused to sad situations like this with the knowledge that gun lovers would build a rampart of corpses to protect their own guns.

The app not solution is to come to the understanding that weapons designed for warfare have no place in our society. They must be banned, bought back from the gun owners and eventually confiscated as a public health hazard. There is no practical purpose for such weaponry. One can defend one's self reasonably with a revolver. Only a Rambo wannabe thinks he absolutely needs an assault weapon.

But they will baffle us with meaningless statistics. They will stand by their misreading of the second amendment. They will ignore the carnage because they are immersed in a culture that sees only beneficence in guns, never the tragedy they bring. In fact, that tragedy gives them confidence in the mistake that only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun. Keeping the guns from the bad guys is the obvious solution.

I don't have a love of guns.


I have a love of liberty.

 

[Circe]

I don't have a love of guns.

I have a love of liberty.

What liberty is that? I've given up hope of liberty. You ever hear anyone say "It's a free country" anymore? It isn't, so no one bothers.

I don't care about either guns or liberty as much as safety. I need my safety in my own hands, not the hands of criminals or police. The police can't do anything but clean up afterwards and sometimes catch the criminal ---- but only sometimes.

The police NEVER stop crimes: they would if they could, but it happens too fast.

Coddling criminals has put a huge number of them on the streets preying on us. Therefore all of us who keep guns want a fair chance to protect ourselves. And I think it's true that we're going to need more guns, as society continues to deteriorate. Open carry, normal concealed carry, and so on.

It's either arm ourselves or be free prey to every criminal all the time, as in Britain.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't have a love of guns.

I have a love of liberty.

What liberty is that? I've given up hope of liberty. You ever hear anyone say "It's a free country" anymore? It isn't, so no one bothers.

I don't care about either guns or liberty as much as safety. I need my safety in my own hands, not the hands of criminals or police. The police can't do anything but clean up afterwards and sometimes catch the criminal ---- but only sometimes.

The police NEVER stop crimes: they would if they could, but it happens too fast.

Coddling criminals has put a huge number of them on the streets preying on us. Therefore all of us who keep guns want a fair chance to protect ourselves. And I think it's true that we're going to need more guns, as society continues to deteriorate. Open carry, normal concealed carry, and so on.

It's either arm ourselves or be free prey to every criminal all the time, as in Britain.

I do not disagree with any of that. (In case you thought I did)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Do,we live in a video game, or are the victims of gunplay actual humans? Your argument is silly as real people are killed in mass shootings, not avatars.

I'm guessing you are under the age of thirty. No grown up would cite video games as rationale for an American arms race.

Well, millions of American men DO buy and stockpile the best and most efficient weapons available. There it is. I'm saying why: because they are better. For shooting, should it be needed.

And millions of American men eat bacon cheeseburger and cheddar fries. But that doesn't make it the right thing to do. Rambo wannabes. Those who fantasize they are living in a video game or movie. They want to ne the hero gunslinger, mowing down zombies or fellow gunslinger. Not a justification for keeping those weapons on American streets.

Consider the carnage, not the fantasy.

I keep telling you that if you want to get rid of the 2nd Amendment get a drive going you just need a majority in the House and Senate to make it then get the majority of 37 States to agree, failing that you don
t get our firearms.

The amendment says the right of the people to bear arms. Let's define "arms". Is an "arm' a mortar? Is an 'arm' a howitzer? Is an 'arm' a .50 caliber rifle? Are there restrictions on those devices? Are they not 'arms'?

If such weapons can be constitutionally restricted, why not expand that definition to include semi-automatic firing systems and weapons loaded by high capacity ammunition magazines? What is the virtue of such weapons? Why are they good, needed, desired? What is their design purpose? Do they belong on American streets? Or should they be in the hands of members of well regulated militias?

The requirement to arm a militia MEANS that all weapons of use to the military must be allowed.

 

[Nosmo King]

... tragedy gives them confidence in the mistake that only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun. Keeping the guns from the bad guys is the obvious solution.

Can't keep the guns from the bad guys. It's impossible. That's the thing. Look at Britain. Only the bad guys have guns: everyone else is disarmed and constantly mugged and robbed and victimized and they are hardly ever sent to prison.

We should be very careful not to go that way. We need guns for self-defense.

Do you need a gun capable of firing multiple rounds in a few seconds? Do you need an assault weapon? Can you defend yourself with a revolver or a shot gun? Or do you need an intramural arms race on American streets?

Assault weapons are already legal ONLY with a federal License, you see numb nuts an assault weapon is either burst or automatic fire capable. And are almost never used in a crime. No legally purchased one with a permit has been used in a crime that I can recall either. You are lumping semiautomatic rifles in with burst fire weapons. Hunting rifles are semi automatic the only difference between them is the looks.

A lot of hunters use a fifteen round clip? Is it considered 'sporting' to use a bump stock?

Why I said it whenever the scourge of gun violence is discussed, those who think their weapons are too cool to be lost fall back on silly semantics? If we were discussing automobile safety, would you require we all have degrees in automotive engineering?

And throwing in 'numb nuts' betrays a thuggish, simplistic mind at work.

. Why talk about the guns, when this is definitely a mentally screwed up individual who could have picked any method of attack ?? You are a distraction in these events in which causes nothing to come of these situations afterwards. It's not the guns, but the individuals mind that is the problem. He chose a weapon of choice to carry out the act, but he could have chose other methods as well. People with twisted minds are unpredictable, and must be taken seriously.

Two words: MASS SHOOTINGS

 

[Circe]

Two words: MASS SHOOTINGS

There is nothing we can do about it: no one has ever put up any viable solutions that I've seen. This is therefore a doom, till it changes on its own, possibly with changes in the North American political situation.

The situation seems to me to be that we have to take care of ourselves because the government can't do it. Too many crazies and terrorists, both. And criminals.

The government COULD put a stop to most of it by deporting illegal Muslims, putting away crazies, and coming down hard on criminals of all sorts, but we know they won't do that, because of malignant leftism that has changed this country for the worse so fast, in just a few decades. In the meantime until things change we'll have to defend ourselves (guns, prepping) and our children (home schooling, private schools) as best we can. The police would if they could and God bless them, but they can't.

 

[Nosmo King]

Two words: MASS SHOOTINGS

There is nothing we can do about it: no one has ever put up any viable solutions that I've seen. This is therefore a doom, till it changes on its own, possibly with changes in the North American political situation.

The situation seems to me to be that we have to take care of ourselves because the government can't do it. Too many crazies and terrorists, both. And criminals.

The government COULD put a stop to most of it by deporting illegal Muslims, putting away crazies, and coming down hard on criminals of all sorts, but we know they won't do that, because of malignant leftism that has changed this country for the worse so fast, in just a few decades. In the meantime until things change we'll have to defend ourselves (guns, prepping) and our children (home schooling, private schools) as best we can. The police would if they could and God bless them, but they can't.

Blame illegals. Blame Muslims. Blame the mentally frazzled.

But totally ignore the lethality of the weapons that puts the 'mass' in 'mass shootings'.

An irresponsible attitude if there ever was one.

Where's the bump stock ban? Where's the background check legislation? Where's the Feinstein bill blocking those on the 'do not fly' list from buying guns? All stalled by the NRA. And you think that organization is acting responsibly?

 

[Circe]

Blame illegals. Blame Muslims. Blame the mentally frazzled.

But totally ignore the lethality of the weapons that puts the 'mass' in 'mass shootings'.

An irresponsible attitude if there ever was one.

Where's the bump stock ban? Where's the background check legislation? Where's the Feinstein bill blocking those on the 'do not fly' list from buying guns? All stalled by the NRA. And you think that organization is acting responsibly?

Yep. NRA helps us defend ourselves. Obviously that is needed, with a totally incompetent FBI and government generally. Leftist criminal and crazy coddling. We're on our own out here. You ain't getting the guns; give it up.

 

[2aguy]

Do,we live in a video game, or are the victims of gunplay actual humans? Your argument is silly as real people are killed in mass shootings, not avatars.

I'm guessing you are under the age of thirty. No grown up would cite video games as rationale for an American arms race.

Well, millions of American men DO buy and stockpile the best and most efficient weapons available. There it is. I'm saying why: because they are better. For shooting, should it be needed.

And millions of American men eat bacon cheeseburger and cheddar fries. But that doesn't make it the right thing to do. Rambo wannabes. Those who fantasize they are living in a video game or movie. They want to ne the hero gunslinger, mowing down zombies or fellow gunslinger. Not a justification for keeping those weapons on American streets.

Consider the carnage, not the fantasy.

I keep telling you that if you want to get rid of the 2nd Amendment get a drive going you just need a majority in the House and Senate to make it then get the majority of 37 States to agree, failing that you don
t get our firearms.

The amendment says the right of the people to bear arms. Let's define "arms". Is an "arm' a mortar? Is an 'arm' a howitzer? Is an 'arm' a .50 caliber rifle? Are there restrictions on those devices? Are they not 'arms'?

If such weapons can be constitutionally restricted, why not expand that definition to include semi-automatic firing systems and weapons loaded by high capacity ammunition magazines? What is the virtue of such weapons? Why are they good, needed, desired? What is their design purpose? Do they belong on American streets? Or should they be in the hands of members of well regulated militias?

No....you are wrong...Heller describes this....you should read it.....

A mortar is a crew served weapon......a howitzer is a crew served weapon......

The purpose of magazines of any kind is to keep the weapon supplied so the user can use it for self defense or sport.....magazine capacity is a fake issue, and has nothing to do with crime or mass shootings...you guys just think you can scare enough uninformed people so they give you the power to take them......and by taking them, you get lots and lots of guns made useless according to the law......that is why you want the magazines...

From Heller....

In Muscarello v. United States, 524 U. S. 125 (1998), in the course of analyzing the meaning of “carries a firearm” in a federal criminal statute, JUSTICE GINSBURG wrote that “urely a most familiar meaning is, as the Constitution’s Second Amendment . . . indicate: ‘wear, bear, or carry . . . upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose . . . of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person.’” I

Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.

---

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous armsbearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment. Pp. 28–30. (d) The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious interpretive worth, reveals three state Second Amendment proposals that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms. Pp. 30–32. (e) Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion. Pp. 32–47. (f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation. Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553, nor Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 264–265, refutes the individualrights interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes. Pp. 47–54. 2.

 

[2aguy]

Two words: MASS SHOOTINGS

There is nothing we can do about it: no one has ever put up any viable solutions that I've seen. This is therefore a doom, till it changes on its own, possibly with changes in the North American political situation.

The situation seems to me to be that we have to take care of ourselves because the government can't do it. Too many crazies and terrorists, both. And criminals.

The government COULD put a stop to most of it by deporting illegal Muslims, putting away crazies, and coming down hard on criminals of all sorts, but we know they won't do that, because of malignant leftism that has changed this country for the worse so fast, in just a few decades. In the meantime until things change we'll have to defend ourselves (guns, prepping) and our children (home schooling, private schools) as best we can. The police would if they could and God bless them, but they can't.

Blame illegals. Blame Muslims. Blame the mentally frazzled.

But totally ignore the lethality of the weapons that puts the 'mass' in 'mass shootings'.

An irresponsible attitude if there ever was one.

Where's the bump stock ban? Where's the background check legislation? Where's the Feinstein bill blocking those on the 'do not fly' list from buying guns? All stalled by the NRA. And you think that organization is acting responsibly?

The Virginia Tech shooter used two pistols and murdered 32 people....the Do Not Fly list is unConstitutional as well....the only ones not acting responsibly are those like you who support sanctuary cities, and giving light sentences to violent criminals based on skin color...

 

[2aguy]

Two words: MASS SHOOTINGS

There is nothing we can do about it: no one has ever put up any viable solutions that I've seen. This is therefore a doom, till it changes on its own, possibly with changes in the North American political situation.

The situation seems to me to be that we have to take care of ourselves because the government can't do it. Too many crazies and terrorists, both. And criminals.

The government COULD put a stop to most of it by deporting illegal Muslims, putting away crazies, and coming down hard on criminals of all sorts, but we know they won't do that, because of malignant leftism that has changed this country for the worse so fast, in just a few decades. In the meantime until things change we'll have to defend ourselves (guns, prepping) and our children (home schooling, private schools) as best we can. The police would if they could and God bless them, but they can't.

Blame illegals. Blame Muslims. Blame the mentally frazzled.

But totally ignore the lethality of the weapons that puts the 'mass' in 'mass shootings'.

An irresponsible attitude if there ever was one.

Where's the bump stock ban? Where's the background check legislation? Where's the Feinstein bill blocking those on the 'do not fly' list from buying guns? All stalled by the NRA. And you think that organization is acting responsibly?

How many bump stocks have been used? Every mass shooter passed background checks.....so far, neither one of your ideas would do anything to stop mass shooters or criminals...care to suggest something that would actually work?

The Virginia Tech shooter passed background checks, and did not use a bump stock or AR-15....he used 2 pistols and murdered 32 people....

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France didn't use a gun, didn't use a bumpstockj, he used a rental truck and murdered 86 people....should we ban rental Trucks?

 

[2aguy]

What say we look to one of your heroes for answers - or is he only a hero when he says what you want to hear.

Justice Scalia’s Gun-Control Argument

“We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. ‘Miller’ said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those ‘in common use at the time.’ 307 U.S., at 179, 59 S.Ct. 816. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of ‘dangerous and unusual weapons.’”

Justice Scalia also wrote:

“It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service — M-16 rifles and the like — may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.”

Yes...cherry picking quotes without the real meaning is a cheap way to lie to us....thanks.....

 

[Nosmo King]

Blame illegals. Blame Muslims. Blame the mentally frazzled.

But totally ignore the lethality of the weapons that puts the 'mass' in 'mass shootings'.

An irresponsible attitude if there ever was one.

Where's the bump stock ban? Where's the background check legislation? Where's the Feinstein bill blocking those on the 'do not fly' list from buying guns? All stalled by the NRA. And you think that organization is acting responsibly?

Yep. NRA helps us defend ourselves. Obviously that is needed, with a totally incompetent FBI and government generally. Leftist criminal and crazy coddling. We're on our own out here. You ain't getting the guns; give it up.

The Trump administration decided to cut mental health funding. They cut Medicare funding and Medicare administers mental health services. The Right bears too much culpability for any partisan to acknowledge.

 

[2aguy]

Blame illegals. Blame Muslims. Blame the mentally frazzled.

But totally ignore the lethality of the weapons that puts the 'mass' in 'mass shootings'.

An irresponsible attitude if there ever was one.

Where's the bump stock ban? Where's the background check legislation? Where's the Feinstein bill blocking those on the 'do not fly' list from buying guns? All stalled by the NRA. And you think that organization is acting responsibly?

Yep. NRA helps us defend ourselves. Obviously that is needed, with a totally incompetent FBI and government generally. Leftist criminal and crazy coddling. We're on our own out here. You ain't getting the guns; give it up.

The Trump administration decided to cut mental health funding. They cut Medicare funding and Medicare administers mental health services. The Right bears too much culpability for any partisan to acknowledge.

They haven't even passed their first budget, genius......please try again....

 

[2aguy]

So....day 1....still, no suggestions on how to stop mass public shooters.........

 

[Circe]

The Trump administration decided to cut mental health funding. They cut Medicare funding and Medicare administers mental health services. The Right bears too much culpability for any partisan to acknowledge.

''

It's not a question of "mental health funding." That's coddling the crazies. It's a question of putting people who act out in the clink: nobody cares if they are crazy, we care what they DO.

People act a whole lot less crazy when there are severe penalties for crazy, murderous behavior. I don't care at all if people are quietly crazy: let 'em. I only care if they are crazy with guns a-blazing.

 

[Circe]

So....day 1....still, no suggestions on how to stop mass public shooters.........

Have a rule and publicize it well: don't hurt people and don't take their stuff.

Quickly catch, try, and execute everyone who does any of that.

That would work. Nothing else will, IMO. I'm for it.

 

[Nosmo King]

The Trump administration decided to cut mental health funding. They cut Medicare funding and Medicare administers mental health services. The Right bears too much culpability for any partisan to acknowledge.

''

It's not a question of "mental health funding." That's coddling the crazies. It's a question of putting people who act out in the clink: nobody cares if they are crazy, we care what they DO.

People act a whole lot less crazy when there are severe penalties for crazy, murderous behavior. I don't care at all if people are quietly crazy: let 'em. I only care if they are crazy with guns a-blazing.

Too late. Keep the guns out of their hands first.