Allowing Gays in the Military Would Be Unfair and Hurt Troop Morale

[ABikerSailor]

The process is complicated?

Depends.............how bad did you piss off the chain of command? They can have your ass streetside in a month if they want, a couple of weeks if they really don't like you.

Generally, it takes a screening, thoughts of the chain of command, an interview with a shrink and then it's sent to BUPERS.

BUPERS then reads it and generally goes with the findings of the CO.

Like I said.......depends on if you pissed off the upper echelon or not.

 

[bodecea]

The process is complicated?

Depends.............how bad did you piss off the chain of command? They can have your ass streetside in a month if they want, a couple of weeks if they really don't like you.

Generally, it takes a screening, thoughts of the chain of command, an interview with a shrink and then it's sent to BUPERS.

BUPERS then reads it and generally goes with the findings of the CO.

Like I said.......depends on if you pissed off the upper echelon or not.

It used to be 48 hours...pre-DADT. I know of several unhappy, yet straight sailors who declared themselves to be gay in order to get out as fast as they could. I had one female YN2 declare herself to be a lesbian and 48 hours later show up to get her discharge papers with her boyfriend. She declared she was going to frame that page in the BUPERS manual that helped her get out so quickly.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

I am? Where? Where?



It used to be.



In a perfect environment...however, when it comes to the military and investigations, it is not a perfect world...far from it.

Again...look up the USS Norton Sound incident.

You're hard of hearing. Discharging someone for violating DADT is not simple and easy, the claims and allegations have to be substantiated, its not as easy as someone making the accusation against another and the person gets discharged, I'm not going to waste any more time telling you this because you're not in the military and don't understand how the system works. Every allegation of being gay is investigated because a lot of those claims are either rumors or some soldiers use it to get out of the Army when they're not really gay. The process is complicated.

You're right...I'm not in the military....any more.

I'm RETIRED Military and during my TWENTY ONE YEAR career I was a Personnel Officer, Admin Officer, Maintenance Officer, LEGAL Officer, Tactical Operations Officer, Command and Control Officer, Executive Officer, Officer in Charge.....all while being a Naval Aviator.


Of course.....I know nothing about the military.....

If....and "if"...you were a drill instructor, you would have called me "Ma'am".

Another squid? Damn. Were you gay and serving on active duty?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey Bodeca, remember when the messages came out to get rid of all the shitbirds? We had one that was right on the verge, and when the Skipper got word that he would be allowed 1 more, we had only 6 hours to get them paid and out.

He'd been busted for drugs several times before (this was in '83, just as the piss tests were starting).

BTW M'am, what was your rank?

 

[bodecea]

You're hard of hearing. Discharging someone for violating DADT is not simple and easy, the claims and allegations have to be substantiated, its not as easy as someone making the accusation against another and the person gets discharged, I'm not going to waste any more time telling you this because you're not in the military and don't understand how the system works. Every allegation of being gay is investigated because a lot of those claims are either rumors or some soldiers use it to get out of the Army when they're not really gay. The process is complicated.

You're right...I'm not in the military....any more.

I'm RETIRED Military and during my TWENTY ONE YEAR career I was a Personnel Officer, Admin Officer, Maintenance Officer, LEGAL Officer, Tactical Operations Officer, Command and Control Officer, Executive Officer, Officer in Charge.....all while being a Naval Aviator.


Of course.....I know nothing about the military.....

If....and "if"...you were a drill instructor, you would have called me "Ma'am".

Another squid? Damn. Were you gay and serving on active duty?

Proudly. You can call me "Ma'am" too. Oh, btw...thanks for the tax money going to my retirement paycheck. 'preciate it.

 

[bodecea]

Hey Bodeca, remember when the messages came out to get rid of all the shitbirds? We had one that was right on the verge, and when the Skipper got word that he would be allowed 1 more, we had only 6 hours to get them paid and out.

He'd been busted for drugs several times before (this was in '83, just as the piss tests were starting).

BTW M'am, what was your rank?

Remember them...I was Legal AND Admin at that time....I had to jump thru all the frickin' hoops to get Operation Golden Flow up and running.

And I retired as an O-5.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey Bodeca, remember when the messages came out to get rid of all the shitbirds? We had one that was right on the verge, and when the Skipper got word that he would be allowed 1 more, we had only 6 hours to get them paid and out.

He'd been busted for drugs several times before (this was in '83, just as the piss tests were starting).

BTW M'am, what was your rank?

Remember them...I was Legal AND Admin at that time....I had to jump thru all the frickin' hoops to get Operation Golden Flow up and running.

And I retired as an O-5.

East or west coast ma'am? I retired as an E-6 (CREO group SUCKED as a PN).

 

[Zona]

The process is complicated?

Depends.............how bad did you piss off the chain of command? They can have your ass streetside in a month if they want, a couple of weeks if they really don't like you.

Generally, it takes a screening, thoughts of the chain of command, an interview with a shrink and then it's sent to BUPERS.

BUPERS then reads it and generally goes with the findings of the CO.

Like I said.......depends on if you pissed off the upper echelon or not.

Remember Tail hook? All you have to do to piss off the upper crust is embarrass the Navy.

 

[bodecea]

Hey Bodeca, remember when the messages came out to get rid of all the shitbirds? We had one that was right on the verge, and when the Skipper got word that he would be allowed 1 more, we had only 6 hours to get them paid and out.

He'd been busted for drugs several times before (this was in '83, just as the piss tests were starting).

BTW M'am, what was your rank?

Remember them...I was Legal AND Admin at that time....I had to jump thru all the frickin' hoops to get Operation Golden Flow up and running.

And I retired as an O-5.

East or west coast ma'am? I retired as an E-6 (CREO group SUCKED as a PN).

All West Coast...and I was a Personnel Officer as an Ensign when we used to keep all records at the Squadron level. Fun, that.

 

[bodecea]

The process is complicated?

Depends.............how bad did you piss off the chain of command? They can have your ass streetside in a month if they want, a couple of weeks if they really don't like you.

Generally, it takes a screening, thoughts of the chain of command, an interview with a shrink and then it's sent to BUPERS.

BUPERS then reads it and generally goes with the findings of the CO.

Like I said.......depends on if you pissed off the upper echelon or not.

Remember Tail hook? All you have to do to piss off the upper crust is embarrass the Navy.

Yeah...that was quite a mess....some serious self-inflicted career wounds on that one.

 

[CurveLight]

Civilians using their agenda to conduct military business without consulting with commanders and NCOs is the reason this current military is a cluster fart, You don't learn from anything do you?


Not to long before the Iraq war, it was said that former Army General Eric Shinseki told Donald Rumsfeld that the mission he(Rumsfeld) wanted in Iraq would require more troops and a long occupation to accomplish its old, but just like the micro-managing civilian jackass he was Rumsfeld ignored Shinseki and all the other experienced generals and forced them out of the military and did the exact opposite which created the quagmire in Iraq. After so many lost lives they ended using "surges" to solve the problem till it got so damn bad Rumsfeld had to go. Thats what happens when stupid civilians ignore officers and NCOs do what they feel is best with a set of crony "yessir" generals.


Don'tr sit up here and run off at the damn mouth about "civilian" authority over the military you retard, because if they don't cooperate in some way with those in uniform in doing assessments a debacle is imminent. Its rare that they act without taking into consideration what the troops say.

Rumsfeld didn't ignore shinseki out of ignorance you dumbass. He did it to fulfill the goal of justifying a long term military occupation (read: permanent bases.)

Nobody gives a damn why he did it, the point is that he messed up by not listening.

Fudge fuxxing nuggets you are one dumb bitch. He didn't mess up. He did exactly what he wanted to do.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Allowing Gays in the Military Would Be Unfair and Hurt Troop Morale - US News and World Report

This link touched upon some of the objections I've raised and I will posted them

The new "nondiscrimination" law would affect all military branches and communities, including Army and Marine infantry, special operations, Navy SEALs, and submarines. Unlike workers who return home at night, military personnel must accept living conditions that involve "forced intimacy," with little or no privacy. This would be tantamount to forcing female soldiers to share private quarters with men—a situation that would be unacceptable to the majority of military women even if misconduct never occurred. Stated in gender-neutral terms, the new law would require military persons to accept exposure to persons who may be sexually attracted to them.

As for us in the Army, how do we feel about it the possible repeal of DADT?

In the 2008 Military Times Poll, 58 percent of 2,000 active-duty subscribers said they opposed repeal of current policy—for the fourth year in a row. Responses to a new survey question found that if Congress repealed the 1993 law, almost 10 percent would not re-enlist, and an additional 14 percent would consider ending their careers. Many first-termers normally leave, but the loss of even a few thousand careerists in communities, grades, and skills that are not quickly or easily replaceable would come at a crippling cost—especially when we are at war and trying to grow the Army and Marine Corps.

Count me as one of those who would end their career if forced acceptance of the one sided homosexual agenda were forced upon me, I refuse to be an advocate of anyone's agenda.


Who's really getting discharged more, gays under DADT or others?

Honorable discharges of gays who were misled about eligibility to serve are far fewer than losses due to pregnancy or weight standard violations. Clarify the meaning of the law, and such discharges could drop to near zero. There is no national security argument for legislation that would undermine recruiting, retention, and readiness in the all-volunteer force.

DADT really hurts the military more than any other people discharged, is that what that obstinate Navy fellow said earlier? Maybe he should reconsider.

A distinguished group of retired flag and general officers recently delivered to Obama and Congress a statement supporting the 1993 law, signed by more than 1,000 retired officers, including 51 of four-star rank. Noting that it "protect good order, discipline, and morale in the unique environment of the military," the officers wrote, "As a matter of national security, we urge you to support the 1993 law regarding homosexuals in the military, and to oppose any legislative, judicial, or administrative effort to repeal or invalidate the law."

A whooping 51 retired four-stars wrote Obama to that he should support DADT, this combined with the 58% of active duty subscribers to the Army Times says a lot about what servicemembers really think, leave it to Fathertime and he will say all of these people are homophobic active duty and retired military, but is that really the case? I leave it for each and every individual to decide for themselves.

Im glad I never thought seriously about joining the military during the Clinton administration.Thanks to old Willy thats what america has now though.I assume Bush went along with it and Obama has as well?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Allowing Gays in the Military Would Be Unfair and Hurt Troop Morale - US News and World Report

This link touched upon some of the objections I've raised and I will posted them

The new "nondiscrimination" law would affect all military branches and communities, including Army and Marine infantry, special operations, Navy SEALs, and submarines. Unlike workers who return home at night, military personnel must accept living conditions that involve "forced intimacy," with little or no privacy. This would be tantamount to forcing female soldiers to share private quarters with men—a situation that would be unacceptable to the majority of military women even if misconduct never occurred. Stated in gender-neutral terms, the new law would require military persons to accept exposure to persons who may be sexually attracted to them.

As for us in the Army, how do we feel about it the possible repeal of DADT?



Count me as one of those who would end their career if forced acceptance of the one sided homosexual agenda were forced upon me, I refuse to be an advocate of anyone's agenda.


Who's really getting discharged more, gays under DADT or others?



DADT really hurts the military more than any other people discharged, is that what that obstinate Navy fellow said earlier? Maybe he should reconsider.

A distinguished group of retired flag and general officers recently delivered to Obama and Congress a statement supporting the 1993 law, signed by more than 1,000 retired officers, including 51 of four-star rank. Noting that it "protect good order, discipline, and morale in the unique environment of the military," the officers wrote, "As a matter of national security, we urge you to support the 1993 law regarding homosexuals in the military, and to oppose any legislative, judicial, or administrative effort to repeal or invalidate the law."

A whooping 51 retired four-stars wrote Obama to that he should support DADT, this combined with the 58% of active duty subscribers to the Army Times says a lot about what servicemembers really think, leave it to Fathertime and he will say all of these people are homophobic active duty and retired military, but is that really the case? I leave it for each and every individual to decide for themselves.

Im glad I never thought seriously about joining the military during the Clinton administration.Thanks to old Willy thats what america has now though.I assume Bush went along with it and Obama has as well?

The entire country is thankful that you never went into the military.

 

[ABikerSailor]

However Ollie Pissed.......we kinda wish that you didn't.

Your archaic views, along with your bigotry of yours and those that think like yours will make the military much more able and flexible, as well as stronger, when biases like yours are gone.

Too bad you're so much of a cowardly ostrich tucking their head in the sand...........you've got me on ignore.

Pussy.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Allowing Gays in the Military Would Be Unfair and Hurt Troop Morale - US News and World Report

This link touched upon some of the objections I've raised and I will posted them





As for us in the Army, how do we feel about it the possible repeal of DADT?



Count me as one of those who would end their career if forced acceptance of the one sided homosexual agenda were forced upon me, I refuse to be an advocate of anyone's agenda.


Who's really getting discharged more, gays under DADT or others?



DADT really hurts the military more than any other people discharged, is that what that obstinate Navy fellow said earlier? Maybe he should reconsider.





A whooping 51 retired four-stars wrote Obama to that he should support DADT, this combined with the 58% of active duty subscribers to the Army Times says a lot about what servicemembers really think, leave it to Fathertime and he will say all of these people are homophobic active duty and retired military, but is that really the case? I leave it for each and every individual to decide for themselves.

Im glad I never thought seriously about joining the military during the Clinton administration.Thanks to old Willy thats what america has now though.I assume Bush went along with it and Obama has as well?

The entire country is thankful that you never went into the military.

says brainwashed Gomer Pyle here.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I'm proud of you ma'am

Hey Bodeca, remember when the messages came out to get rid of all the shitbirds? We had one that was right on the verge, and when the Skipper got word that he would be allowed 1 more, we had only 6 hours to get them paid and out.

He'd been busted for drugs several times before (this was in '83, just as the piss tests were starting).

BTW M'am, what was your rank?

Remember them...I was Legal AND Admin at that time....I had to jump thru all the frickin' hoops to get Operation Golden Flow up and running.

And I retired as an O-5.

 

[bodecea]

However Ollie Pissed.......we kinda wish that you didn't.

Your archaic views, along with your bigotry of yours and those that think like yours will make the military much more able and flexible, as well as stronger, when biases like yours are gone.

Too bad you're so much of a cowardly ostrich tucking their head in the sand...........you've got me on ignore.

Pussy.

I remember, in OCS, taking an Engineering class from a Mustang LT...he flat out said to a class of men AND women officer candidates that the day the Navy put those little white boxes in the Ship Heads (he was referring to tampon/pad dispensers), that would be the day he retired.

I picture SFC Ollie and others of his ilk being like that Mustang LT.


BTW, a month later, our class was the first to select women to go to SWOS and be the first on Navy ships.....wonder if he really retired.

 

[ABikerSailor]

However Ollie Pissed.......we kinda wish that you didn't.

Your archaic views, along with your bigotry of yours and those that think like yours will make the military much more able and flexible, as well as stronger, when biases like yours are gone.

Too bad you're so much of a cowardly ostrich tucking their head in the sand...........you've got me on ignore.

Pussy.

I remember, in OCS, taking an Engineering class from a Mustang LT...he flat out said to a class of men AND women officer candidates that the day the Navy put those little white boxes in the Ship Heads (he was referring to tampon/pad dispensers), that would be the day he retired.

I picture SFC Ollie and others of his ilk being like that Mustang LT.


BTW, a month later, our class was the first to select women to go to SWOS and be the first on Navy ships.....wonder if he really retired.

I remember those days. Was stationed with VFA-131 onboard USS DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER when it happened.

Freaking pilots were spazzing out all over the place, because now their good old boys club was gonna get broke into.

I also remember Tailhook.

But, you're right CDR, Ollie the Pissed and his friend Failed Load sound just like that Mustang LT. Scared of anything that is new and may work better, because then they'd have to perform.

Me personally? Never had a problem, just look at the rank and decide from there. Color, gender and sexual orientation shouldn't figure into it.

What counts is when you can "flip" for it and know you will win.

 

[rdean]

In the meantime, we have to lose someone such as Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, an F-15E Strike Eagle pilot, the first Air Force pilot in the air after the 9/11 attacks, who also earned nine Air Medals, including one for valor for assaulting an Iraqi ambush position while under heavy anti-aircraft fire during the first days of the invasion.

An anonymous person outed him to the military. He didn't out himself.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/milit...ed-gens-to-build-a-case-against-the-gays.html

Nothing like throwing out your "best" and replacing them with felons. I finally get it. Thanks, Republicans.

This is a spurious claim, what facts do you to back this up? The military isn't faggots discharged under DADT with felons, don't make emotional charged , jackass claims to promote your faggot agenda, you're a liar and the Bass challenges you to back this claim up.

Army, Marines give waivers to more felons

Recruits were allowed to enlist after having been convicted of crimes including assault, burglary, drug possession and making terrorist threats.

Army, Marines give waivers to more felons - CNN.com

WASHINGTON - Under pressure to meet combat needs, the Army and Marine Corps brought in significantly more recruits with felony convictions last year than in 2006, including some with manslaughter and sex crime convictions.

Army, Marines enlisting more felons - Military- msnbc.com

Gidding was sentenced to five months in jail and three years probation, but he never served his time. Instead, he shipped out with his unit on active duty.
After arriving in Kuwait, Bob didn't even bother to hide his felony status. According to two other soldiers, he told the entire group and commanding officer about his conviction.

Local Felon Slips Past Military Regulations - cbs5.com

-------------------------------------------------------------

In the meantime, we have to lose someone such as Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, an F-15E Strike Eagle pilot, the first Air Force pilot in the air after the 9/11 attacks, who also earned nine Air Medals, including one for valor for assaulting an Iraqi ambush position while under heavy anti-aircraft fire during the first days of the invasion.
An anonymous person outed him to the military. He didn't out himself.

Lt. Dan Choi, 28, who majored in Arabic language at West Point
"I have never, ever done anything homosexual while on duty and I never engaged in heterosexual conduct while on duty because the army is not about sexual anything," he said. "I had never had a boyfriend or girlfriend because of 'Don't Ask Don't Tell.'"

Knights Out is an organization of West Point Alumni
Our members include former West Point professors, Rhodes Scholars, decorated combat veterans from the Vietnam War, Iraq and Afghanistan, peacekeepers who served in Haiti and Bosnia, men and women from the first co-ed class (1980), an ordained minister, and many others who are coming out from their silence to serve their country in a new way.

A study group of Flag and General Officers which took a year to assess all of the evidence on "don't ask, don't tell" found that commanders in Iraq are ignoring the policy and choosing to keep their teams together rather than firing loyal gay troops. A recent Military Times poll confirms that many commanders know of gays and lesbians serving in their units, but choose not to discharge them.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/milit...ed-gens-to-build-a-case-against-the-gays.html

So many reasons to allow the gays including the fact they are willing to put their lives on the line to protect their families. The only reasons against them are "they might PEEK at me in the shower".

Pretty pathetic, even for those on the right.

 

[SFC Ollie]

This is a spurious claim, what facts do you to back this up? The military isn't faggots discharged under DADT with felons, don't make emotional charged , jackass claims to promote your faggot agenda, you're a liar and the Bass challenges you to back this claim up.

Army, Marines give waivers to more felons

Recruits were allowed to enlist after having been convicted of crimes including assault, burglary, drug possession and making terrorist threats.

Army, Marines give waivers to more felons - CNN.com

WASHINGTON - Under pressure to meet combat needs, the Army and Marine Corps brought in significantly more recruits with felony convictions last year than in 2006, including some with manslaughter and sex crime convictions.

Army, Marines enlisting more felons - Military- msnbc.com

Gidding was sentenced to five months in jail and three years probation, but he never served his time. Instead, he shipped out with his unit on active duty.
After arriving in Kuwait, Bob didn't even bother to hide his felony status. According to two other soldiers, he told the entire group and commanding officer about his conviction.

Local Felon Slips Past Military Regulations - cbs5.com

-------------------------------------------------------------

In the meantime, we have to lose someone such as Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, an F-15E Strike Eagle pilot, the first Air Force pilot in the air after the 9/11 attacks, who also earned nine Air Medals, including one for valor for assaulting an Iraqi ambush position while under heavy anti-aircraft fire during the first days of the invasion.
An anonymous person outed him to the military. He didn't out himself.

Lt. Dan Choi, 28, who majored in Arabic language at West Point
"I have never, ever done anything homosexual while on duty and I never engaged in heterosexual conduct while on duty because the army is not about sexual anything," he said. "I had never had a boyfriend or girlfriend because of 'Don't Ask Don't Tell.'"

Knights Out is an organization of West Point Alumni
Our members include former West Point professors, Rhodes Scholars, decorated combat veterans from the Vietnam War, Iraq and Afghanistan, peacekeepers who served in Haiti and Bosnia, men and women from the first co-ed class (1980), an ordained minister, and many others who are coming out from their silence to serve their country in a new way.

A study group of Flag and General Officers which took a year to assess all of the evidence on "don't ask, don't tell" found that commanders in Iraq are ignoring the policy and choosing to keep their teams together rather than firing loyal gay troops. A recent Military Times poll confirms that many commanders know of gays and lesbians serving in their units, but choose not to discharge them.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/milit...ed-gens-to-build-a-case-against-the-gays.html

So many reasons to allow the gays including the fact they are willing to put their lives on the line to protect their families. The only reasons against them are "they might PEEK at me in the shower".

Pretty pathetic, even for those on the right.

There is so much more to living and working together in close quarters than you will ever understand, Why don't you just go back to your little corner of the world. They know you there and will change your diaper on a regular basis.