Affordable Care Act: A Child's Garden Of Lies And Distortions

[The Rabbi]

Pages back I wrote:

Doesn't anyone have an opinion on what form of health care would be best?

I do. In a nutshell I believe:

All American citizens should be covered under an expanded Medicare Program which covers preventative care and emergency treatment by private sector doctors, clinics, hospitals, etc. Payments to such providers to be determined by regional costs annually determined; co-pays to be determined by each individual provider.

In each Congressional District a Health Center would be build to provide at no cost to all citizen inoculations and education on STD's, contraceptives, medication for chronic disease including diabetes and heart conditions and treatment for minor injury's and illness (Cost-benefit keeping Emergency rooms at hospitals costs down, saving dollars for private, non profit and public hospitals and reducing the cost of private insurance to consumers).

100 Federal Hospitals would be built (one for each senator) each to include a teaching environment for any student who wishes to become a Doctor, Nurse or technician (in a medical specialty) at low or no cost, and the payment for such an education to be worked off in a health center or public hospital.

(each clinic and hospital to be named after the member of Congress who was in office when such an act was passed - since nothing will happen one needs to consider the greed and egos of those elected to Congress).

I have more ideas, but I've been accused of being Don Quixote and having Impossible Dreams (one of the nicer add hominems I must admit)

Pages later Rabbi has offered no alternative idea and seems content to argue that preventive medicine isn't cost effective. I wonder, why he is allowed to spam a thread when it's clear he has no ideas or integrity and is likely the only person on this planet who doesn't understand if someone doesn't brush their teeth they fall out.

OK, so I showed your ideas were stupid and unworkable and based on fallacies. And your criticism is I didnt come up with my own plan.
OK.
My own plan is that employers should not be given a tax break for providing insurance. Second, anyone may group together people (like the NRA or Lutheran Brotherhood or whatever) and offer group insurance. Third, we should expand health saving accounts to make them more attractive.
The whole idea is to make the individual more responsible for his health care and more cost conscious. How many people run to the doctor when they have a virus for a few days? Worthless. Total waste of resources. Making them pay for it will reduce those unnecessary calls.
If we make personal responsibility the centerpiece then people will naturally want to lose weight, quit smoking, and exercise moderately. That would virtually eliminate the health care crisis as most expenditures go for lifestyle induced diseases.

 

[Syphon]

Pages back I wrote:

Doesn't anyone have an opinion on what form of health care would be best?

I do. In a nutshell I believe:

All American citizens should be covered under an expanded Medicare Program which covers preventative care and emergency treatment by private sector doctors, clinics, hospitals, etc. Payments to such providers to be determined by regional costs annually determined; co-pays to be determined by each individual provider.

In each Congressional District a Health Center would be build to provide at no cost to all citizen inoculations and education on STD's, contraceptives, medication for chronic disease including diabetes and heart conditions and treatment for minor injury's and illness (Cost-benefit keeping Emergency rooms at hospitals costs down, saving dollars for private, non profit and public hospitals and reducing the cost of private insurance to consumers).

100 Federal Hospitals would be built (one for each senator) each to include a teaching environment for any student who wishes to become a Doctor, Nurse or technician (in a medical specialty) at low or no cost, and the payment for such an education to be worked off in a health center or public hospital.

(each clinic and hospital to be named after the member of Congress who was in office when such an act was passed - since nothing will happen one needs to consider the greed and egos of those elected to Congress).

I have more ideas, but I've been accused of being Don Quixote and having Impossible Dreams (one of the nicer add hominems I must admit)

Pages later Rabbi has offered no alternative idea and seems content to argue that preventive medicine isn't cost effective. I wonder, why he is allowed to spam a thread when it's clear he has no ideas or integrity and is likely the only person on this planet who doesn't understand if someone doesn't brush their teeth they fall out.

OK, so I showed your ideas were stupid and unworkable and based on fallacies. And your criticism is I didnt come up with my own plan.
OK.
My own plan is that employers should not be given a tax break for providing insurance. Second, anyone may group together people (like the NRA or Lutheran Brotherhood or whatever) and offer group insurance. Third, we should expand health saving accounts to make them more attractive.
The whole idea is to make the individual more responsible for his health care and more cost conscious. How many people run to the doctor when they have a virus for a few days? Worthless. Total waste of resources. Making them pay for it will reduce those unnecessary calls.
If we make personal responsibility the centerpiece then people will naturally want to lose weight, quit smoking, and exercise moderately. That would virtually eliminate the health care crisis as most expenditures go for lifestyle induced diseases.

so now is there we all get do like you do and call your plan stupid, unworkable, inconceivable, based on fallacies, all while at the same time offering no counter solutions???

 

[Wry Catcher]

Pages back I wrote:

Doesn't anyone have an opinion on what form of health care would be best?

I do. In a nutshell I believe:

All American citizens should be covered under an expanded Medicare Program which covers preventative care and emergency treatment by private sector doctors, clinics, hospitals, etc. Payments to such providers to be determined by regional costs annually determined; co-pays to be determined by each individual provider.

In each Congressional District a Health Center would be build to provide at no cost to all citizen inoculations and education on STD's, contraceptives, medication for chronic disease including diabetes and heart conditions and treatment for minor injury's and illness (Cost-benefit keeping Emergency rooms at hospitals costs down, saving dollars for private, non profit and public hospitals and reducing the cost of private insurance to consumers).

100 Federal Hospitals would be built (one for each senator) each to include a teaching environment for any student who wishes to become a Doctor, Nurse or technician (in a medical specialty) at low or no cost, and the payment for such an education to be worked off in a health center or public hospital.

(each clinic and hospital to be named after the member of Congress who was in office when such an act was passed - since nothing will happen one needs to consider the greed and egos of those elected to Congress).

I have more ideas, but I've been accused of being Don Quixote and having Impossible Dreams (one of the nicer add hominems I must admit)

Pages later Rabbi has offered no alternative idea and seems content to argue that preventive medicine isn't cost effective. I wonder, why he is allowed to spam a thread when it's clear he has no ideas or integrity and is likely the only person on this planet who doesn't understand if someone doesn't brush their teeth they fall out.

OK, so I showed your ideas were stupid and unworkable and based on fallacies. And your criticism is I didnt come up with my own plan.
OK.
My own plan is that employers should not be given a tax break for providing insurance. Second, anyone may group together people (like the NRA or Lutheran Brotherhood or whatever) and offer group insurance. Third, we should expand health saving accounts to make them more attractive.
The whole idea is to make the individual more responsible for his health care and more cost conscious. How many people run to the doctor when they have a virus for a few days? Worthless. Total waste of resources. Making them pay for it will reduce those unnecessary calls.
If we make personal responsibility the centerpiece then people will naturally want to lose weight, quit smoking, and exercise moderately. That would virtually eliminate the health care crisis as most expenditures go for lifestyle induced diseases.

#121 (permalink) Today, 08:14 AM
The Rabbi
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Quote: Originally Posted by Wry Catcher
Pages back I wrote:

Doesn't anyone have an opinion on what form of health care would be best?

I do. In a nutshell I believe:

All American citizens should be covered under an expanded Medicare Program which covers preventative care and emergency treatment by private sector doctors, clinics, hospitals, etc. Payments to such providers to be determined by regional costs annually determined; co-pays to be determined by each individual provider.

In each Congressional District a Health Center would be build to provide at no cost to all citizen inoculations and education on STD's, contraceptives, medication for chronic disease including diabetes and heart conditions and treatment for minor injury's and illness (Cost-benefit keeping Emergency rooms at hospitals costs down, saving dollars for private, non profit and public hospitals and reducing the cost of private insurance to consumers).

100 Federal Hospitals would be built (one for each senator) each to include a teaching environment for any student who wishes to become a Doctor, Nurse or technician (in a medical specialty) at low or no cost, and the payment for such an education to be worked off in a health center or public hospital.

(each clinic and hospital to be named after the member of Congress who was in office when such an act was passed - since nothing will happen one needs to consider the greed and egos of those elected to Congress).

I have more ideas, but I've been accused of being Don Quixote and having Impossible Dreams (one of the nicer add hominems I must admit)

Pages later Rabbi has offered no alternative idea and seems content to argue that preventive medicine isn't cost effective. I wonder, why he is allowed to spam a thread when it's clear he has no ideas or integrity and is likely the only person on this planet who doesn't understand if someone doesn't brush their teeth they fall out.


"OK, so I showed your ideas were stupid and unworkable and based on fallacies" You did not. Apparently in your own mind you did - that's not a good sign.

As for 'your idea' of health care, it's simply one more iteration of libertarian ideology.

 

[starcraftzzz]

.-----
"Can you show that preventative care actually reduces medical costs? I think the answer is no."
your exact words.
guess you missed this line too : screening for colorectal cancer, and providing influenza vaccination
all of these items fall under preventative care..... wow amazing. thanks for proving my point, preventative care saves on health care costs.-----
I laready excluded coercing people into lifestyle changes. And you are cherry picking. The question was whether preventative mainenance as a whole reduces costs. The answer is no.

Screening for cancer and providing flue shots doesn't change peoples lifestyles.
YOu were proven wrong, at least have to balls to admit it and not spew complete stupidity

You really think flu shots and screenings are going to control health care costs? Really??

Its not that I think that its that reality and all the evidence says that. Do you even think? No?

 

[saveliberty]

It will be quite a comfort for the elderly to know just what exactly killed them, but could not get the state to pay for treatment.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Isn't it sad that those most opposed to the Affordable Care Act can't come up with an idea on reform of health care in our nation. Such is the power of propaganda and willful ignorance.

 

[RDD_1210]

Isn't it sad that those most opposed to the Affordable Care Act can't come up with an idea on reform of health care in our nation. Such is the power of propaganda and willful ignorance.

What are you talking about? They have plenty of "ideas"

- Tort Reform
- Allow insurance to sell across state lines

That should fix everything.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Isn't it sad that those most opposed to the Affordable Care Act can't come up with an idea on reform of health care in our nation. Such is the power of propaganda and willful ignorance.

What are you talking about? They have plenty of "ideas"

- Tort Reform
- Allow insurance to sell across state lines

That should fix everything.

It worked so well deregulating banks, didn't it. Consider health care providers too big to fail having to respond to a recurrence of the 1918 pandemic:

"I'm so sorry, we can't cover treatment for your (daughter, son, wife, husband, mom, dad, etc); we understand they had a pre-existing condition, otherwise, they would not have gotten sick. Those who do not have this pre-existing condition are well, aren't they?"

 

[Listening]

Isn't it sad that those most opposed to the Affordable Care Act can't come up with an idea on reform of health care in our nation. Such is the power of propaganda and willful ignorance.

Hahahaha....

Like the ACA was an ideo for "reform". It's like sculpting dogcrapp.

When the motto is get them out, you don't turn around and invite them in.

The solution....get government out of the insurance business altogether.

 

[Listening]

so now is there we all get do like you do and call your plan stupid, unworkable, inconceivable, based on fallacies, all while at the same time offering no counter solutions???

There are no "workable" solutinos at the Federal Level. That isn't their job.

Oh yeah...I've finally figured out that you don't know what Madison said in Federalist 10 and that is why you won't post it.

But here is AGAIN from 45:

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.

************************

So if Mass wants Romneycare....they are more than welcome.

If Nebraska does not want health care, the Fed can't touch them.

So tell me again where you think 10 gives the power to provide a "workable" solution (a one size fits all for 310,000,000 people) ?

Unbelievable.

Obamacare is going down. Stevens already crammed the Feds government back down it's throat.

Kiss it and our beloved Moron In Cheif good-bye.

 

[The Rabbi]

Pages back I wrote:

Doesn't anyone have an opinion on what form of health care would be best?

I do. In a nutshell I believe:

All American citizens should be covered under an expanded Medicare Program which covers preventative care and emergency treatment by private sector doctors, clinics, hospitals, etc. Payments to such providers to be determined by regional costs annually determined; co-pays to be determined by each individual provider.

In each Congressional District a Health Center would be build to provide at no cost to all citizen inoculations and education on STD's, contraceptives, medication for chronic disease including diabetes and heart conditions and treatment for minor injury's and illness (Cost-benefit keeping Emergency rooms at hospitals costs down, saving dollars for private, non profit and public hospitals and reducing the cost of private insurance to consumers).

100 Federal Hospitals would be built (one for each senator) each to include a teaching environment for any student who wishes to become a Doctor, Nurse or technician (in a medical specialty) at low or no cost, and the payment for such an education to be worked off in a health center or public hospital.

(each clinic and hospital to be named after the member of Congress who was in office when such an act was passed - since nothing will happen one needs to consider the greed and egos of those elected to Congress).

I have more ideas, but I've been accused of being Don Quixote and having Impossible Dreams (one of the nicer add hominems I must admit)

Pages later Rabbi has offered no alternative idea and seems content to argue that preventive medicine isn't cost effective. I wonder, why he is allowed to spam a thread when it's clear he has no ideas or integrity and is likely the only person on this planet who doesn't understand if someone doesn't brush their teeth they fall out.

OK, so I showed your ideas were stupid and unworkable and based on fallacies. And your criticism is I didnt come up with my own plan.
OK.
My own plan is that employers should not be given a tax break for providing insurance. Second, anyone may group together people (like the NRA or Lutheran Brotherhood or whatever) and offer group insurance. Third, we should expand health saving accounts to make them more attractive.
The whole idea is to make the individual more responsible for his health care and more cost conscious. How many people run to the doctor when they have a virus for a few days? Worthless. Total waste of resources. Making them pay for it will reduce those unnecessary calls.
If we make personal responsibility the centerpiece then people will naturally want to lose weight, quit smoking, and exercise moderately. That would virtually eliminate the health care crisis as most expenditures go for lifestyle induced diseases.

#121 (permalink) Today, 08:14 AM
The Rabbi
Stompin' the Left
Member #20947 Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nashville
Posts: 20,084
Thanks: 3,145
Thanked 3,075 Times in 2,199 Posts
Rep Power: 373



Quote: Originally Posted by Wry Catcher
Pages back I wrote:

Doesn't anyone have an opinion on what form of health care would be best?

I do. In a nutshell I believe:

All American citizens should be covered under an expanded Medicare Program which covers preventative care and emergency treatment by private sector doctors, clinics, hospitals, etc. Payments to such providers to be determined by regional costs annually determined; co-pays to be determined by each individual provider.

In each Congressional District a Health Center would be build to provide at no cost to all citizen inoculations and education on STD's, contraceptives, medication for chronic disease including diabetes and heart conditions and treatment for minor injury's and illness (Cost-benefit keeping Emergency rooms at hospitals costs down, saving dollars for private, non profit and public hospitals and reducing the cost of private insurance to consumers).

100 Federal Hospitals would be built (one for each senator) each to include a teaching environment for any student who wishes to become a Doctor, Nurse or technician (in a medical specialty) at low or no cost, and the payment for such an education to be worked off in a health center or public hospital.

(each clinic and hospital to be named after the member of Congress who was in office when such an act was passed - since nothing will happen one needs to consider the greed and egos of those elected to Congress).

I have more ideas, but I've been accused of being Don Quixote and having Impossible Dreams (one of the nicer add hominems I must admit)

Pages later Rabbi has offered no alternative idea and seems content to argue that preventive medicine isn't cost effective. I wonder, why he is allowed to spam a thread when it's clear he has no ideas or integrity and is likely the only person on this planet who doesn't understand if someone doesn't brush their teeth they fall out.


"OK, so I showed your ideas were stupid and unworkable and based on fallacies" You did not. Apparently in your own mind you did - that's not a good sign.

As for 'your idea' of health care, it's simply one more iteration of libertarian ideology.

You seem unable to process any idea that isn't in concert with your own. This makes debate futile.
Your ideas are unworkable. They will blow costs through the roof, as has been shown already. Preventative care will do little to amerliorate that. As has been shown already. The only workable ideas are ones that put people in charge of their own health care spending.
Why are you afraid of freedom for people?

 

[Listening]

"Can you show that preventative care actually reduces medical costs? I think the answer is no."

your exact words.

guess you missed this line too : screening for colorectal cancer, and providing influenza vaccination

all of these items fall under preventative care..... wow amazing. thanks for proving my point, preventative care saves on health care costs.

That is all in a model. I have friends with insurance who won't get physicals and won't get cholonoscopies. Fat lot of good that is going to do them.

I agree that we need to get preventive care to those who need it.

Just not through Uncle Obama and Aunt Axelrod.

so now your applauding people who arent personally responsible..... hypocrite

It is amazing you are functional....or maybe you are not.

How you extract that from my post is beyond me. I think you might be an actual case of a cell phone roasting someones brain.

 

[saveliberty]

Isn't it sad that those most opposed to the Affordable Care Act can't come up with an idea on reform of health care in our nation. Such is the power of propaganda and willful ignorance.

What are you talking about? They have plenty of "ideas"

- Tort Reform
- Allow insurance to sell across state lines

That should fix everything.

Well, it would be a low cost help in the problem. As opposed to finding ways for government to gain further control over citizens lives, which was the true intent of Obamacare.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Isn't it sad that those most opposed to the Affordable Care Act can't come up with an idea on reform of health care in our nation. Such is the power of propaganda and willful ignorance.

What are you talking about? They have plenty of "ideas"
- Tort Reform
- Allow insurance to sell across state lines

That should fix everything.

Anyone who thinks 2=plenty can't do math.
Not to mention that their "ideas" on trot reform don't save any money

 

[Listening]

Does not matter....

The only reform we want is for the system to be allowed to work free of government interference.

You don't get a clean system either way. What you can get is access to some pretty good health care in our country.

If you want to join a 100,000,000 non tax funded exchange....be my guest. I'll take care of myself thank you and that includes paying for trips to the ER which would be a lot less expensive if you morons would get out of the way.

 

[Syphon]

That is all in a model. I have friends with insurance who won't get physicals and won't get cholonoscopies. Fat lot of good that is going to do them.

I agree that we need to get preventive care to those who need it.

Just not through Uncle Obama and Aunt Axelrod.

so now your applauding people who arent personally responsible..... hypocrite

It is amazing you are functional....or maybe you are not.

How you extract that from my post is beyond me. I think you might be an actual case of a cell phone roasting someones brain.

does your brain even function while you type... if the GOP is all about personal responsibility and preventative care reduces costs, your dumb ass comment about friends with insurance who wont get physicals and wont get colonoscopies shows that they in fact arent responsible. its been proven that these services reduces the costs of health care in the long term. why dont you tell them to be more responsible in the first place.

was that slow enough for you? anything else you need explained to you in terms a 4th grader can handle..... i mean that page explaining the civil war to 5th graders went way over your head, so im not sure how much more i can dumb it down for you.

 

[Syphon]

Does not matter....

The only reform we want is for the system to be allowed to work free of government interference.

You don't get a clean system either way. What you can get is access to some pretty good health care in our country.

If you want to join a 100,000,000 non tax funded exchange....be my guest. I'll take care of myself thank you and that includes paying for trips to the ER which would be a lot less expensive if you morons would get out of the way.

if you have insurance, the rest of those who pay premiums help cover your costs when you go to the ER. that is unless you only pay cash.

do you need a lessons on how insurance actually works now? im not sure i can dumb that one down to a 4th grade level for you to understand.

 

[The Rabbi]

Does not matter....

The only reform we want is for the system to be allowed to work free of government interference.

You don't get a clean system either way. What you can get is access to some pretty good health care in our country.

If you want to join a 100,000,000 non tax funded exchange....be my guest. I'll take care of myself thank you and that includes paying for trips to the ER which would be a lot less expensive if you morons would get out of the way.

if you have insurance, the rest of those who pay premiums help cover your costs when you go to the ER. that is unless you only pay cash.

do you need a lessons on how insurance actually works now? im not sure i can dumb that one down to a 4th grade level for you to understand.

Well, you would need income to afford insurance. That cuts you out.
Anyway, that's what insurance is: a shared risk pool. The difference is insurance is voluntary. Obamacare is mandatory. That means you can't get out of it, in case you didnt knwo the word.

 

[saveliberty]

Does not matter....

The only reform we want is for the system to be allowed to work free of government interference.

You don't get a clean system either way. What you can get is access to some pretty good health care in our country.

If you want to join a 100,000,000 non tax funded exchange....be my guest. I'll take care of myself thank you and that includes paying for trips to the ER which would be a lot less expensive if you morons would get out of the way.

if you have insurance, the rest of those who pay premiums help cover your costs when you go to the ER. that is unless you only pay cash.

do you need a lessons on how insurance actually works now? im not sure i can dumb that one down to a 4th grade level for you to understand.

Sounds like that is what it is being suggested. A reasonably high deductable for the rest of folks would limit unnesessary ER visits too.

 

[Listening]

so now your applauding people who arent personally responsible..... hypocrite

It is amazing you are functional....or maybe you are not.

How you extract that from my post is beyond me. I think you might be an actual case of a cell phone roasting someones brain.

does your brain even function while you type... if the GOP is all about personal responsibility and preventative care reduces costs, your dumb ass comment about friends with insurance who wont get physicals and wont get colonoscopies shows that they in fact arent responsible. its been proven that these services reduces the costs of health care in the long term. why dont you tell them to be more responsible in the first place.

was that slow enough for you? anything else you need explained to you in terms a 4th grader can handle..... i mean that page explaining the civil war to 5th graders went way over your head, so im not sure how much more i can dumb it down for you.

You said I was applauding them. Obviously the drugs had not worn off yet. It seems lost on you that most people have insurance, and about 85% of thos with it, like it.....I know that will kill your whole day. That does not mean that we (I include myself in the group) don't think there is need of some serious reform (like get government out of it altogether....but I digress).

BTW: I don't run my friends lives. They make decisions on their own...something I am not sure you can comprehend.

I am a big fan of preventative care. Obamacare does nothing to guarantee that people will get preventative care.....sorry to break it to you.

You keep with those fifth grade books. I am sure there is a chance you'll advance next year.

In the meantime, I am still awaiting just one argument from you regarding Federalist 10. I've kicked your ass so far up one side and down the other with the founders words you seem reluctant to crawl out of your hole. Go ahead, give it a shot.