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Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
I don't know how they counted 1,500,000 times a year when guns prevented something from happening. How do you count that? Sounds like a police interactions stat, to me.
Your numbers are obscene. 320,000,000 million guns in private hands is NOT necessary in anybody's book.
No....same facts....same truth....same reality.
It isn't police interactions...it is research conducted by trained researchers in different academic research disciplines over a 40 year period....mostly by anti gun researchers like Lott and Kleck when they started out....
The 1,500,000 million defensive gun use number comes from the bill clinton Department of Justice study.....they needed to refute the study conducted by Dr. Gary Kleck and so they hired two rabidly anti gun researchers....paid for the research, the two anti gunners created the research criteria...and executed it....and they came up with 1,500,000 million defensive gun uses a year....not what they were hoping for....
The only one who pulls numbers out of their ass is brain...he doesn't like the numbers that 40 years of research have found...so he just makes up a number he likes....or uses the National Crime Victimization Survey......and uses that number...the problem...the NCVS...is not a gun self defense study....it doesn't ask the about defensive gun use...and doesn't even have the word "gun" in it.....but it has the lowest number and so he clings to that.....
That is when he isn't making up a number out of his ass....
Here is the depth of the research into this issue...the 1,500,000 million defensive use study is highlighted as is the study conducted by barak obama's CDC...which spent 10 million dollars in 2013 to study all of the gun research.....take a look at the numbers they found....
I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC
And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....
A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)
Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million
--------------------
Bordua...1977...1,414,544
DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)
Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)
Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)
Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)
DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)
Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])
Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043
Gallup...1991...777,152
Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)
Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....
Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
I don't know how they counted 1,500,000 times a year when guns prevented something from happening. How do you count that? Sounds like a police interactions stat, to me.
Your numbers are obscene. 320,000,000 million guns in private hands is NOT necessary in anybody's book.
Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
I don't know how they counted 1,500,000 times a year when guns prevented something from happening. How do you count that? Sounds like a police interactions stat, to me.
Your numbers are obscene. 320,000,000 million guns in private hands is NOT necessary in anybody's book.
No....same facts....same truth....same reality.
It isn't police interactions...it is research conducted by trained researchers in different academic research disciplines over a 40 year period....mostly by anti gun researchers like Lott and Kleck when they started out....
The 1,500,000 million defensive gun use number comes from the bill clinton Department of Justice study.....they needed to refute the study conducted by Dr. Gary Kleck and so they hired two rabidly anti gun researchers....paid for the research, the two anti gunners created the research criteria...and executed it....and they came up with 1,500,000 million defensive gun uses a year....not what they were hoping for....
The only one who pulls numbers out of their ass is brain...he doesn't like the numbers that 40 years of research have found...so he just makes up a number he likes....or uses the National Crime Victimization Survey......and uses that number...the problem...the NCVS...is not a gun self defense study....it doesn't ask the about defensive gun use...and doesn't even have the word "gun" in it.....but it has the lowest number and so he clings to that.....
That is when he isn't making up a number out of his ass....
Here is the depth of the research into this issue...the 1,500,000 million defensive use study is highlighted as is the study conducted by barak obama's CDC...which spent 10 million dollars in 2013 to study all of the gun research.....take a look at the numbers they found....
I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC
And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....
A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)
Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million
--------------------
Bordua...1977...1,414,544
DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)
Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)
Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)
Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)
DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)
Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])
Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043
Gallup...1991...777,152
Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)
Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....
Link to the DOJ study and its findings. I always see a lower number quoted.
Interesting how many of your surveys are less than 1.5. Also interesting you omit any with lower findings. Like the largest study using the NCVS survey that found 108k.
Visualizing gun deaths - Comparing the U.S. to rest of the world
Another issue that gets less attention is how many people die from firearms accidentally. Again, the U.S. has much higher rates of unintentional death from firearms compared to other countries.
8,124 gun murders.....70-80% of the victims are criminals with multiple felony convictions....which means about 1,642 are simply innocent victims.....more than likely unarmed at the time of their murder.......Your argument is based on the premise that 1:16,000,000 is "many"?I already did, but I will say it one more time. Granted many gun owners do not misuse their weapons. However, many do.Noting that anti-gun arguments are appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty attacks the basis of the argument, not the person making the argument - and so is not an ad hom.every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.
I love it when you gun lovers are reduced to ad hominem attacks.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns
That's your justification for banning the sale of guns and confiscating existing guns?
Why would a reasoned, knowledgeable, honest person be swayed by this argument?
The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.
Many gun owners have hundreds of guns. They have more guns than hands. The number of guns does not matter. Our rates of death compared to other countries is what matters.
Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
I don't know how they counted 1,500,000 times a year when guns prevented something from happening. How do you count that? Sounds like a police interactions stat, to me.
Your numbers are obscene. 320,000,000 million guns in private hands is NOT necessary in anybody's book.
No....same facts....same truth....same reality.
It isn't police interactions...it is research conducted by trained researchers in different academic research disciplines over a 40 year period....mostly by anti gun researchers like Lott and Kleck when they started out....
The 1,500,000 million defensive gun use number comes from the bill clinton Department of Justice study.....they needed to refute the study conducted by Dr. Gary Kleck and so they hired two rabidly anti gun researchers....paid for the research, the two anti gunners created the research criteria...and executed it....and they came up with 1,500,000 million defensive gun uses a year....not what they were hoping for....
The only one who pulls numbers out of their ass is brain...he doesn't like the numbers that 40 years of research have found...so he just makes up a number he likes....or uses the National Crime Victimization Survey......and uses that number...the problem...the NCVS...is not a gun self defense study....it doesn't ask the about defensive gun use...and doesn't even have the word "gun" in it.....but it has the lowest number and so he clings to that.....
That is when he isn't making up a number out of his ass....
Here is the depth of the research into this issue...the 1,500,000 million defensive use study is highlighted as is the study conducted by barak obama's CDC...which spent 10 million dollars in 2013 to study all of the gun research.....take a look at the numbers they found....
I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC
And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....
A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)
Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million
--------------------
Bordua...1977...1,414,544
DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)
Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)
Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)
Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)
DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)
Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])
Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043
Gallup...1991...777,152
Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)
Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....
Link to the DOJ study and its findings. I always see a lower number quoted.
Interesting how many of your surveys are less than 1.5. Also interesting you omit any with lower findings. Like the largest study using the NCVS survey that found 108k.
I already did asswipe. I quoted the number, linked to the study......moron.
The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.
Many gun owners have hundreds of guns. They have more guns than hands. The number of guns does not matter. Our rates of death compared to other countries is what matters.
Nope......that doesn't matter at all.....normal, law abiding people do not shoot other people...
Britain confiscated their guns.....now only criminals and cops have guns....and their gun murder rate stayed the same...but the gun crime rate did increase last year by 4%....in an island nation....which confiscated civilian guns ....and has extreme gun control for the rich and powerful and their hunting shotguns......
8,124 gun murders.....70-80% of the victims are criminals with multiple felony convictions....which means about 1,642 are simply innocent victims.....more than likely unarmed at the time of their murder.......Your argument is based on the premise that 1:16,000,000 is "many"?I already did, but I will say it one more time. Granted many gun owners do not misuse their weapons. However, many do.Noting that anti-gun arguments are appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty attacks the basis of the argument, not the person making the argument - and so is not an ad hom.every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.
I love it when you gun lovers are reduced to ad hominem attacks.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns
That's your justification for banning the sale of guns and confiscating existing guns?
Why would a reasoned, knowledgeable, honest person be swayed by this argument?
This is directly from USMB's high guru of gun rights. I find 8,124 murders (even if they have priors, they're still people) too many. That would be my justification.
Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
I don't know how they counted 1,500,000 times a year when guns prevented something from happening. How do you count that? Sounds like a police interactions stat, to me.
Your numbers are obscene. 320,000,000 million guns in private hands is NOT necessary in anybody's book.
No....same facts....same truth....same reality.
It isn't police interactions...it is research conducted by trained researchers in different academic research disciplines over a 40 year period....mostly by anti gun researchers like Lott and Kleck when they started out....
The 1,500,000 million defensive gun use number comes from the bill clinton Department of Justice study.....they needed to refute the study conducted by Dr. Gary Kleck and so they hired two rabidly anti gun researchers....paid for the research, the two anti gunners created the research criteria...and executed it....and they came up with 1,500,000 million defensive gun uses a year....not what they were hoping for....
The only one who pulls numbers out of their ass is brain...he doesn't like the numbers that 40 years of research have found...so he just makes up a number he likes....or uses the National Crime Victimization Survey......and uses that number...the problem...the NCVS...is not a gun self defense study....it doesn't ask the about defensive gun use...and doesn't even have the word "gun" in it.....but it has the lowest number and so he clings to that.....
That is when he isn't making up a number out of his ass....
Here is the depth of the research into this issue...the 1,500,000 million defensive use study is highlighted as is the study conducted by barak obama's CDC...which spent 10 million dollars in 2013 to study all of the gun research.....take a look at the numbers they found....
I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC
And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....
A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)
Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million
--------------------
Bordua...1977...1,414,544
DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)
Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)
Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)
Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)
DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)
Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])
Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043
Gallup...1991...777,152
Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)
Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....
Link to the DOJ study and its findings. I always see a lower number quoted.
Interesting how many of your surveys are less than 1.5. Also interesting you omit any with lower findings. Like the largest study using the NCVS survey that found 108k.
I already did asswipe. I quoted the number, linked to the study......moron.
You posted a long list of garbage. Not seeing it.
We have talked about this before. It is disrespectful to keep bringing up the Nazi victims as deluded people who could have somehow defended themselves from Hitler with handguns. If you aren't a computer generated program, I do wish you would quit throwing that one at me.Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
I don't know how they counted 1,500,000 times a year when guns prevented something from happening. How do you count that? Sounds like a police interactions stat, to me.
Your numbers are obscene. 320,000,000 million guns in private hands is NOT necessary in anybody's book.
That is exactly what the Germans thought in the 1920s........because by 1939 that many guns in the hands of Jews and poliltical oppostition would have made their death camps unworkable......
Dittos the slaves in the democrat controlled south...that many guns and there is no slavery........
Dittos the Mexicans south of our border...that many guns in the hands of normal Mexicans and the government and the drug cartels can't murder enough people to put in their new ovens.......
I see what you mean.......mass murderers, genocidal governments and ethnic cleansers around the world completely agree with you......do you enjoy being on that side of the issue?
Yes. 1 gun in 16,000,000 every day.8,124 gun murders....Your argument is based on the premise that 1:16,000,000 is "many"?I already did, but I will say it one more time. Granted many gun owners do not misuse their weapons. However, many do.Noting that anti-gun arguments are appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty attacks the basis of the argument, not the person making the argument - and so is not an ad hom.every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.
I love it when you gun lovers are reduced to ad hominem attacks.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns
That's your justification for banning the sale of guns and confiscating existing guns?
Why would a reasoned, knowledgeable, honest person be swayed by this argument?
Ok then...which means about 1,642 are simply innocent victims.....
Sounds to me like they should have had the means to defend themselves.more than likely unarmed at the time of their murder.......
The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.
Many gun owners have hundreds of guns. They have more guns than hands. The number of guns does not matter. Our rates of death compared to other countries is what matters.
Nope......that doesn't matter at all.....normal, law abiding people do not shoot other people...
Britain confiscated their guns.....now only criminals and cops have guns....and their gun murder rate stayed the same...but the gun crime rate did increase last year by 4%....in an island nation....which confiscated civilian guns ....and has extreme gun control for the rich and powerful and their hunting shotguns......
How does their gun crime rate compare to ours?
8,124 gun murders.....70-80% of the victims are criminals with multiple felony convictions....which means about 1,642 are simply innocent victims.....more than likely unarmed at the time of their murder.......Your argument is based on the premise that 1:16,000,000 is "many"?I already did, but I will say it one more time. Granted many gun owners do not misuse their weapons. However, many do.Noting that anti-gun arguments are appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty attacks the basis of the argument, not the person making the argument - and so is not an ad hom.every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.
I love it when you gun lovers are reduced to ad hominem attacks.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns
That's your justification for banning the sale of guns and confiscating existing guns?
Why would a reasoned, knowledgeable, honest person be swayed by this argument?
This is directly from USMB's high guru of gun rights. I find 8,124 murders (even if they have priors, they're still people) too many. That would be my justification.
And of course you ignore the actual studies on Americans using guns for self defense....the clinton Department of Justice says Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack 1,500,000 times a year...
If you take away those guns from those Americans...the murder rate goes well above 8,124 and the number of completely innocent victims also increases......and that is what you want..right?
Britain showed that confiscating guns from law abiding people does not change the gun murder or gun crime rate....you know this...I showed you the stats from the British...their criminals still get the same number of guns they did before.......
But you don't care about the innocent victims....
And as our gun number went up......from 320,000,000 million guns in private hands...up from the number in the 90s....and to 357,000,000 million guns in private hands in 2015...
Our gun murder rate went down....I have also shown you that number...and you don't care about those lives saved either.....
The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.
Many gun owners have hundreds of guns. They have more guns than hands. The number of guns does not matter. Our rates of death compared to other countries is what matters.
Nope......that doesn't matter at all.....normal, law abiding people do not shoot other people...
Britain confiscated their guns.....now only criminals and cops have guns....and their gun murder rate stayed the same...but the gun crime rate did increase last year by 4%....in an island nation....which confiscated civilian guns ....and has extreme gun control for the rich and powerful and their hunting shotguns......
How does their gun crime rate compare to ours?
It was always lower than ours even before they confiscated their guns......they confiscated their guns...and the gun crime rate stayed the same...confiscating guns from people who did not use them to commit crime did not lower the gun crime rate...in fact it went up....then went back to the same level.......
They had a low gun murder rate compared to us long before they confiscated guns.......and our gun murder rate went down as more Americans owned and carried guns....
We have talked about this before. It is disrespectful to keep bringing up the Nazi victims as deluded people who could have somehow defended themselves from Hitler with handguns. If you aren't a computer generated program, I do wish you would quit throwing that one at me.Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
I don't know how they counted 1,500,000 times a year when guns prevented something from happening. How do you count that? Sounds like a police interactions stat, to me.
Your numbers are obscene. 320,000,000 million guns in private hands is NOT necessary in anybody's book.
That is exactly what the Germans thought in the 1920s........because by 1939 that many guns in the hands of Jews and poliltical oppostition would have made their death camps unworkable......
Dittos the slaves in the democrat controlled south...that many guns and there is no slavery........
Dittos the Mexicans south of our border...that many guns in the hands of normal Mexicans and the government and the drug cartels can't murder enough people to put in their new ovens.......
I see what you mean.......mass murderers, genocidal governments and ethnic cleansers around the world completely agree with you......do you enjoy being on that side of the issue?
8,124 gun murders.....70-80% of the victims are criminals with multiple felony convictions....which means about 1,642 are simply innocent victims.....more than likely unarmed at the time of their murder.......Your argument is based on the premise that 1:16,000,000 is "many"?I already did, but I will say it one more time. Granted many gun owners do not misuse their weapons. However, many do.Noting that anti-gun arguments are appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty attacks the basis of the argument, not the person making the argument - and so is not an ad hom.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns
That's your justification for banning the sale of guns and confiscating existing guns?
Why would a reasoned, knowledgeable, honest person be swayed by this argument?
This is directly from USMB's high guru of gun rights. I find 8,124 murders (even if they have priors, they're still people) too many. That would be my justification.
And of course you ignore the actual studies on Americans using guns for self defense....the clinton Department of Justice says Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack 1,500,000 times a year...
If you take away those guns from those Americans...the murder rate goes well above 8,124 and the number of completely innocent victims also increases......and that is what you want..right?
Britain showed that confiscating guns from law abiding people does not change the gun murder or gun crime rate....you know this...I showed you the stats from the British...their criminals still get the same number of guns they did before.......
But you don't care about the innocent victims....
And as our gun number went up......from 320,000,000 million guns in private hands...up from the number in the 90s....and to 357,000,000 million guns in private hands in 2015...
Our gun murder rate went down....I have also shown you that number...and you don't care about those lives saved either.....
So first you claim taking the guns will increase the murder rate. Then you state britains murder rate stayed the same. Impressive fail.
We have talked about this before. It is disrespectful to keep bringing up the Nazi victims as deluded people who could have somehow defended themselves from Hitler with handguns. If you aren't a computer generated program, I do wish you would quit throwing that one at me.Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
I don't know how they counted 1,500,000 times a year when guns prevented something from happening. How do you count that? Sounds like a police interactions stat, to me.
Your numbers are obscene. 320,000,000 million guns in private hands is NOT necessary in anybody's book.
That is exactly what the Germans thought in the 1920s........because by 1939 that many guns in the hands of Jews and poliltical oppostition would have made their death camps unworkable......
Dittos the slaves in the democrat controlled south...that many guns and there is no slavery........
Dittos the Mexicans south of our border...that many guns in the hands of normal Mexicans and the government and the drug cartels can't murder enough people to put in their new ovens.......
I see what you mean.......mass murderers, genocidal governments and ethnic cleansers around the world completely agree with you......do you enjoy being on that side of the issue?
You don't like it because it puts in bold relief the stupidity or your position on guns....had the rest of Europe been as well armed as the civilians in Switzerland, the Germans could not have held any of the territory they took...and they could not have murdered 12,000,000 million innocent men, women and children.....
Switzerland was not invaded....they had 435,000 civilians armed with rifles and pistols with orders and the will to resist any invasion......and German did not invade them...
With 10 pistols the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto held off the might of the German occupiers for weeks.......10 pistols.........imagine if the entire civilian population of Poland was as well armed as we are.....there would not have been a Holocaust in Poland...
And that is the truth.
The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.
Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.
Many gun owners have hundreds of guns. They have more guns than hands. The number of guns does not matter. Our rates of death compared to other countries is what matters.
Nope......that doesn't matter at all.....normal, law abiding people do not shoot other people...
Britain confiscated their guns.....now only criminals and cops have guns....and their gun murder rate stayed the same...but the gun crime rate did increase last year by 4%....in an island nation....which confiscated civilian guns ....and has extreme gun control for the rich and powerful and their hunting shotguns......
How does their gun crime rate compare to ours?
It was always lower than ours even before they confiscated their guns......they confiscated their guns...and the gun crime rate stayed the same...confiscating guns from people who did not use them to commit crime did not lower the gun crime rate...in fact it went up....then went back to the same level.......
They had a low gun murder rate compared to us long before they confiscated guns.......and our gun murder rate went down as more Americans owned and carried guns....
You mean crime has gone down since the Bill Clinton crime bill.
8,124 gun murders.....70-80% of the victims are criminals with multiple felony convictions....which means about 1,642 are simply innocent victims.....more than likely unarmed at the time of their murder.......Your argument is based on the premise that 1:16,000,000 is "many"?I already did, but I will say it one more time. Granted many gun owners do not misuse their weapons. However, many do.
That's your justification for banning the sale of guns and confiscating existing guns?
Why would a reasoned, knowledgeable, honest person be swayed by this argument?
This is directly from USMB's high guru of gun rights. I find 8,124 murders (even if they have priors, they're still people) too many. That would be my justification.
And of course you ignore the actual studies on Americans using guns for self defense....the clinton Department of Justice says Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack 1,500,000 times a year...
If you take away those guns from those Americans...the murder rate goes well above 8,124 and the number of completely innocent victims also increases......and that is what you want..right?
Britain showed that confiscating guns from law abiding people does not change the gun murder or gun crime rate....you know this...I showed you the stats from the British...their criminals still get the same number of guns they did before.......
But you don't care about the innocent victims....
And as our gun number went up......from 320,000,000 million guns in private hands...up from the number in the 90s....and to 357,000,000 million guns in private hands in 2015...
Our gun murder rate went down....I have also shown you that number...and you don't care about those lives saved either.....
So first you claim taking the guns will increase the murder rate. Then you state britains murder rate stayed the same. Impressive fail.
Wrong twit.....I have stated over and over the reason the Britains have a low murder rate is that their criminals....who have all the guns they want.....do not commit murder....
That is changing...their social welfare state is creating a new generation of violent criminal....and they are becoming more and more ready to murder people...even police....
Access to guns isn't the issue here or there...it is the nature of the criminal...moron.
