Accidental gun deaths...505. Accidental Medical deaths, 250,000.

[2aguy]

intentional, illegal use of guns you get 8,124 gun murders in 2014.

That's okay with you? Really? Let's all get some more guns...

For every gun used to commit murder yesterday, 16,000,000 were not.
Your conclusion: We need more gun control!!

Not control, less guns altogether. Putting stupid paperwork and unenforceable (seemingly) laws on gun buying and selling isn't going to do shit. We need to do something much more drastic. The guy who got p.o.'d yesterday in Texas because he was fired would NOT have gone back to work and shot two people, killing one, if he had no access to a gun at home. He would have done what us gun haters do--settle in at a bar, get good and drunk, say lots of nasty things about the boss, and then take a cab home and sleep it off.

And again.....357,000,000 million guns in private hands....

13,000,000 million people carrying guns for self defense.

8,124 gun murders.....70-80% of the victims are criminals with multiple felony convictions....which means about 1,642 are simply innocent victims.....more than likely unarmed at the time of their murder.......

Each year 1,500,000 AMericans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and to save lives....


You don't care about actual facts, the truth or the reality...and you don't care about the 1,500,000 victims who weren't victims because they were able to defend themselves....

 

[M14 Shooter]

Not control, less guns altogether.

Pardon me for my mis-interpretation of your position..
For every gun used to commit murder yesterday, 16,000,000 were not.
Your conclusion: We need to ban the sale of, and then confiscate, guns!!!

 

[2aguy]

Granny says, "Hmmm...

... mebbe dey should regulate scalpels...

... an' require background checks fer doctors."

Yes, it's called medical school. And it lasts years and years. Any idiot can walk into a gun store and buy a gun instantly without any training or regulation. And while we're at it, let's arm more toddlers. After all, they account for many of the accidental shootings in America. Let's also read them the NRA bedtime stories in which our beloved storybook figures are now armed. I say More Guns for Everybody! And then 2aguy can stop parsing whether one more death is too many or not enough. Really? You can argue over numbers?

Yeah...you can argue over numbers........

8,124 gun murders.......

1,500,000 times a year guns are used to stop violent criminal attack and to save lives.....

Which number is bigger and by how much...can you tell? Do you need help?

How many accidental shootings were there? Do you know?


320,000,000 million guns in private hands......and 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013.

Can you tell which number is bigger and by how much? Does that register in your brain at all?

 

[Dale Smith]

I know from my research thatin the last 5 years that random gun violence incidents have been staged by our own corporate "gubermint"....from the Aurora shooting to the one in San Bernadino have been staged live shooter drills by the DHS...for those that want to debate me on this...bring it on because I will shew you up and spit you out.

And this is why you can't get a gun, dude. We don't give guns to crazy people.

The Lizard people have you on their list.

"We"??? There will never come a day when a group of liberal POS ever have a say over my life, get it, Joe Sheeple? LOL!

 

[OldLady]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
I don't know how they counted 1,500,000 times a year when guns prevented something from happening. How do you count that? Sounds like a police interactions stat, to me.
Your numbers are obscene. 320,000,000 million guns in private hands is NOT necessary in anybody's book.

 

[Brain357]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
I don't know how they counted 1,500,000 times a year when guns prevented something from happening. How do you count that? Sounds like a police interactions stat, to me.
Your numbers are obscene. 320,000,000 million guns in private hands is NOT necessary in anybody's book.

The 1.5 million comes from his imagination mostly. I believe it is loosely based on poorly done surveys. The number is not supported by anything in reality. Most people have never had a defense, nor do they know anyone who has.

 

[Brain357]

Visualizing gun deaths - Comparing the U.S. to rest of the world

Another issue that gets less attention is how many people die from firearms accidentally. Again, the U.S. has much higher rates of unintentional death from firearms compared to other countries.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.

The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.

 

[turzovka]

Visualizing gun deaths - Comparing the U.S. to rest of the world

Another issue that gets less attention is how many people die from firearms accidentally. Again, the U.S. has much higher rates of unintentional death from firearms compared to other countries.

Are you suggesting if the USA made a law that all firearms be turned in that the gangs and criminals would comply?
After all, the great majority of homicides in the USA are criminal against criminal or gang member against gang member, are they not?
The point being, whatever utopia the anti-gun people are hoping for it has zero chance of ever coming to that.
Did not work with prohibition, will not work with guns. Not to mention the great benefit of having conceal and carry citizens around.

 

[Brain357]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.

The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.

Many gun owners have hundreds of guns. They have more guns than hands. The number of guns does not matter. Our rates of death compared to other countries is what matters.

 

[OldLady]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.

The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.

every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.
I love it when you gun lovers are reduced to ad hominem attacks. Solves all your problems, doesn't it? It makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHATSOEVER to think that if 40% of the households in this country didn't have 320,000,000 guns in the closet, in the drawer, in the glovebox, less people would get shot. You're the ones being ignorant and dishonest. You just want to keep your killing toys.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.

The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.

every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.
I love it when you gun lovers are reduced to ad hominem attacks.

Noting that anti-gun arguments are appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty attacks the basis of the argument, not the person making the argument - and so is not an ad hom.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns

 

[Brain357]

Visualizing gun deaths - Comparing the U.S. to rest of the world

Another issue that gets less attention is how many people die from firearms accidentally. Again, the U.S. has much higher rates of unintentional death from firearms compared to other countries.

Are you suggesting if the USA made a law that all firearms be turned in that the gangs and criminals would comply?
After all, the great majority of homicides in the USA are criminal against criminal or gang member against gang member, are they not?
The point being, whatever utopia the anti-gun people are hoping for it has zero chance of ever coming to that.
Did not work with prohibition, will not work with guns. Not to mention the great benefit of having conceal and carry citizens around.

I'm suggesting we have very high firearm death rates both intentional and accidental.

What is the benefit of concealed carry citizens? Seems to be adding to accidental shootings.

 

[OldLady]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.

The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.

every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.
I love it when you gun lovers are reduced to ad hominem attacks.

Noting that anti-gun arguments are appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty attacks the basis of the argument, not the person making the argument - and so is not an ad hom.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns

I already did, but I will say it one more time. Granted many gun owners do not misuse their weapons. However, many do. Were guns much less readily available for purchase or theft, less people would have the option to be stupid and kill someone else with a gun. That's my reasoning (and many countries in the world agree with that thinking, by the way). I'm sticking to it.

 

[OldLady]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.

The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.

every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.
I love it when you gun lovers are reduced to ad hominem attacks.

Noting that anti-gun arguments are appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty attacks the basis of the argument, not the person making the argument - and so is not an ad hom.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns

And of course you are implying I am being emotional, ignorant and dishonest in my arguments. There is no other way to construe it. Not that I believe you, so no harm done.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.

The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.

every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.
I love it when you gun lovers are reduced to ad hominem attacks.

Noting that anti-gun arguments are appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty attacks the basis of the argument, not the person making the argument - and so is not an ad hom.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns

I already did, but I will say it one more time. Granted many gun owners do not misuse their weapons. However, many do.

Your argument is based on the premise that 1:16,000,000 is "many"?
That's your justification for banning the sale of guns and confiscating existing guns?
Why would a reasoned, knowledgeable, honest person be swayed by this argument?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.

The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.

every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.
I love it when you gun lovers are reduced to ad hominem attacks.

Noting that anti-gun arguments are appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty attacks the basis of the argument, not the person making the argument - and so is not an ad hom.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns

And of course you are implying I am being emotional, ignorant and dishonest in my arguments. There is no other way to construe it.

I'm sorry you do not understand the meaning of 'ad hom' and how an attack on an argument is not attack on the person who made it.
Maybe you should get that fixed.

 

[Brain357]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.

The nature of the anti-gun argument necessitates this, as every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns.

every such argument is based n the same old, tired appeal to emotion, ignorance and or dishonesty.
I love it when you gun lovers are reduced to ad hominem attacks.

Noting that anti-gun arguments are appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty attacks the basis of the argument, not the person making the argument - and so is not an ad hom.

Now, tell us how, in your mind, the fact that the US has a daily 1:16,000,000 guns used / not used to commit murder rate justifies banning the sale of guns and confiscation of existing guns

I already did, but I will say it one more time. Granted many gun owners do not misuse their weapons. However, many do.

Your argument is based on the premise that 1:16,000,000 is "many"?
That's your justification for banning the sale of guns and confiscating existing guns?
Why would a reasoned, knowledgeable, honest person be swayed by this argument?

An honest person wouldn't be using the number of guns as a base. Gun nuts buying hundreds of guns does not lower the amount of damage done by guns. The accidental death rate just increased significantly.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

To put a little perspective on the issue of which is more dangerous, guns or Doctors...even if you add intentional, illegal use of guns you get 8,124 gun murders in 2014.........you still don't come anywhere near the danger Doctors pose to their patients...

Blog: Medical errors now the 3rd leading cause of death in the US

A study published in the prominent medical journal BMJ concluded that errors by doctors and hospitals kills more than 250,000 people a year in the US. That's more than strokes, respiratory disease, and Alzheimers.

lol

This is truly moronic, and fails as a false comparison fallacy.

 

[2aguy]

Nothin' new here. Same old arguments; I swear they're prerecorded.
I don't know how they counted 1,500,000 times a year when guns prevented something from happening. How do you count that? Sounds like a police interactions stat, to me.
Your numbers are obscene. 320,000,000 million guns in private hands is NOT necessary in anybody's book.

No....same facts....same truth....same reality.

It isn't police interactions...it is research conducted by trained researchers in different academic research disciplines over a 40 year period....mostly by anti gun researchers like Lott and Kleck when they started out....

The 1,500,000 million defensive gun use number comes from the bill clinton Department of Justice study.....they needed to refute the study conducted by Dr. Gary Kleck and so they hired two rabidly anti gun researchers....paid for the research, the two anti gunners created the research criteria...and executed it....and they came up with 1,500,000 million defensive gun uses a year....not what they were hoping for....

The only one who pulls numbers out of their ass is brain...he doesn't like the numbers that 40 years of research have found...so he just makes up a number he likes....or uses the National Crime Victimization Survey......and uses that number...the problem...the NCVS...is not a gun self defense study....it doesn't ask the about defensive gun use...and doesn't even have the word "gun" in it.....but it has the lowest number and so he clings to that.....

That is when he isn't making up a number out of his ass....

Here is the depth of the research into this issue...the 1,500,000 million defensive use study is highlighted as is the study conducted by barak obama's CDC...which spent 10 million dollars in 2013 to study all of the gun research.....take a look at the numbers they found....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....