abortions the real choice

[JBeukema]

JB, your posts about sex might be a little more informed if you had ever gotten any.

More personal attacks, my dear troll? Really, it''s quite pathetic. If you have no response to the points made, do us all a favor and

Good post Care: guys, wear a condom or stfu.

girls, check for a condom and use other protections or stfu. The guys are not the only ones fuckin' up, here

No, I think that people (not just women) should be taught responsibility. One part of responsibility is practicing safe sex. It is irresponsible to have unsafe sex. It leads to more than unwanted pregnancy. But allowing abortions sends the message that unsafe sex is fine because society allows you to wash your hands of any "mistakes." It's the wrong message. We're giving kids the motivation to engage in sex earlier and with fewer precautions. We're allowing the spread of disease and opening the door to more self-esteem issues on a group of young adults that already have more pressures than any of us ever faced.

As was mentioned: abstinence works, if you practice it. Other forms of birth control are more than 90% effective; again, if you use them. The less than 10% risk you take on by engaging in sexual activity is just that: a risk. Don't want to take the risk? Practice abstinence. Want to take the risk? Prepare for the consequences. That's why it's called a risk. Now there is no risk. If people aren't going to take responsibility in something as important as this, why should we trust them to be responsible in any other aspects of their lives?

Here's some advice. Don't have unsafe sex. That way you'll have full control of your reproductive choice.

I know it's early, I'm still sick, and I haven't had my coffee yet, but the little comment in bold annoyed me.

Where the HELL did I say anything of the sort, JB? *I* place more of the responsibility on the female than I do the man. I have never ONCE even implied it's a man's fault a woman gets pregnant.

It's possible, if your post resembled the others, that I thought you were agreeing with them. If I misrepresented your position, I apologize.

 

[We Are They]

"girls, check for a condom and use other protections or stfu. The guys are not the only ones fuckin' up, here"
But the guys are the only ones whining about how they should have a say.

So JB, when you don't respond to my whole post and just pick at the joke like a troll (I guess that calling someone a troll isn't a personal attack), does that mean that you agree with the rest of it?
And the aggressive guy going beserk, is that you?

 

[Jon]

But it does seem to me, that men WERE more responsible back then when it came to their children or children to be and this was because it was FROWNED upon by society to get your girl or any girl pregnant and walk.

You know, it was also FROWNED upon by society to have abortions in those days, too. But I agree 100%, BOTH genders should be acting more responsibly, not just women and not just men. I just get tired of people like you pointing the finger across the aisle.

Here's some advice. Don't have unsafe sex. That way you'll have full control of your reproductive choice.

I'm not sure if that was a stab at me or if you were agreeing with me, but it's exactly what I've been saying.

Good post Care: guys, wear a condom or stfu.

Girls, close your snatch or shut the fuck up.

 

[Ravi]

No, it wasn't a stab at you, jsanders. Just some advice.

You've lost the battle for control of a woman's body. Bones posted herbal ways to abort, someone else posted how to do it with birth control pills.

If you want control of your reproductive rights, as a man, choose your partner wisely.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Amish abuse children by keeping them ignorant. Forced marriages?

As for buddhism: "Now Buddhism becomes a religion of violence"
Now Buddhism becomes a religion of violence

Any others?

Sorry, asshole, but "abuse" is not defined as "raising children differently than We Are They thinks they should be".

And am I supposed to be impressed that you can find someone on the Internet to support your prejudices?

You're a bigot. Own it and deal. That is all, because I don't waste time talking to peabrains in sheets. FLUSH!

 

[AllieBaba]

A woman has no right to use ownership of her body as an excuse to kill a life she harbors within it.

Doesn't matter how you do it, it's still murder. Just because a man takes control of his body and beats the shit out of his girlfriend doesn't mean that "right" is protected. It is murder to kill even using your hands, and your body can be considered a weapon if you are using it as the instrument to hurt or kill another.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It shouldn't have been legal in the first place. Judges aren't supposed to make laws, that was never part of their job description. In a democracy the people make the laws, and elected officials. NOT appointed judges with agendas, who bypass the will of the people to put into effect their own pet projects.

Murder is never right, and it should never be legal. Abortion is murder. It has nothing to do with my ideas of how children should be brought up, what religion they should be taught, or anything else. It's murder and therefore unacceptable in any form.

You will never see me arguing that the state should support any religion or philosophy. Likewise, you will never see me support the state in creating bogus laws which make murder legal.

In order to call abortion murder you have to Prove with absolutely no doubt when life begins. So far no one has been able to do that. Some believe it happens at conception, others believe it happens upon first breath. So calling it murder is just fear tactics to install guilt, cause outrage and bully women into doing what you want them to.

You didn't take biology in high school, apparently, let alone college. The question of life - from a scientific standpoint, if not the fuzzy emotional one leftists want to use - is covered. It's not a matter of "belief".

Biological science tells us that a thing must meet seven criteria to be considered alive: growth, stimulus response, metabolism, homeostasis, reproduction, mutation, and autonomous motion. Certain of these, of course, apply more in terms of type than specific organisms, since not all humans can reproduce for example, but humans as a species certainly can.

For those things that apply on an individual level, such as growth, stimulus response, metabolism, etc., an embryo certainly qualifies, let alone a fetus. The definition of life only becomes complicated at the point where we try to wiggle and squirm our way away from hard science in order rationalize and justify.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, I think that people (not just women) should be taught responsibility. One part of responsibility is practicing safe sex. It is irresponsible to have unsafe sex. It leads to more than unwanted pregnancy. But allowing abortions sends the message that unsafe sex is fine because society allows you to wash your hands of any "mistakes." It's the wrong message. We're giving kids the motivation to engage in sex earlier and with fewer precautions. We're allowing the spread of disease and opening the door to more self-esteem issues on a group of young adults that already have more pressures than any of us ever faced.

As was mentioned: abstinence works, if you practice it. Other forms of birth control are more than 90% effective; again, if you use them. The less than 10% risk you take on by engaging in sexual activity is just that: a risk. Don't want to take the risk? Practice abstinence. Want to take the risk? Prepare for the consequences. That's why it's called a risk. Now there is no risk. If people aren't going to take responsibility in something as important as this, why should we trust them to be responsible in any other aspects of their lives?

Here's some advice. Don't have unsafe sex. That way you'll have full control of your reproductive choice.

No guarantees with any birth control. Two of my kids were conceived using "safe sex" and my best friend was on the pill (and never missed a dose).

You don't want to get pregnant? Don't have sex.

I'm with you there. I myself was a condom baby (they made such wonderful condoms in the late '60s, I guess) and two of my sister's children were conceived on the Pill. That's why we both went straight for tubal ligation.

 

[Jon]

No, it wasn't a stab at you, jsanders. Just some advice.

You've lost the battle for control of a woman's body. Bones posted herbal ways to abort, someone else posted how to do it with birth control pills.

If you want control of your reproductive rights, as a man, choose your partner wisely.

So yes, it was a stab. See, you and others miss my point entirely. I don't want control of a woman's body. I want women to take control of their own bodies and stop letting every Tom, Dick, and Harry fuck them to make them feel better. If women would have the same responsibility you're preaching to me, abortions wouldn't be necessary. You, like Care, need to stop pointing fingers across the aisle.

 

[Gunny]

"That was because at the time America held conservative values dear- before liberals and libertines made any sense of morality or responsibility anathema "
"Idiots like you declared war on responsibility"
"Why should they be responsible? The liberal nanny state will take care of everything. Libtards are too stupid to realize that they're the biggest part of the problem."

Is that enough Gunny? And that's only from the one post.

I'm sorry Mr Chihauhau ... are you attempting to nip at my heels? I wear fucking boots, so give it up.

I can go LOTS of places with this argument and your Romper Room response.

One, liberalism does not condone dodging personal responsibility. The left in this country however, does.

LEFTtards ARE the biggest part of the problem.

Problem here is, you've made absolutely no contribution to the discussion. You just knee-jerked at the word "libtards" -- a misnomer -- and started spouting off ignorant shit.

I'm a liberal. I'm NOT a leftist. I firmly believe in personal responsibility. That's the whole fucking problem with leftwing hillbillies -- they've turned "liberal" into a dirty word claiming ot be something they aren't.

Your knee jerk reaction opposed something that is fact. Accountability to society for one's actions. You just chose to denigrate it with "morality police."

Fact is, if you're too stupid and too much of a pussy to accept the responsibility of your actions, then you suck. You suck as a human, and as a member of our society.

Questions?

 

[Gunny]

"girls, check for a condom and use other protections or stfu. The guys are not the only ones fuckin' up, here"
But the guys are the only ones whining about how they should have a say.

So JB, when you don't respond to my whole post and just pick at the joke like a troll (I guess that calling someone a troll isn't a personal attack), does that mean that you agree with the rest of it?
And the aggressive guy going beserk, is that you?

NO, according to my wife, it's me. You have an issue with that?

 

[Gunny]

No, it wasn't a stab at you, jsanders. Just some advice.

You've lost the battle for control of a woman's body. Bones posted herbal ways to abort, someone else posted how to do it with birth control pills.

If you want control of your reproductive rights, as a man, choose your partner wisely.

And I deleted them. This isn't a home remedy abortion clinic.

The inequality of rights exists, no matter how much you don't want to hear it.

 

[Gunny]

A woman has no right to use ownership of her body as an excuse to kill a life she harbors within it.

Doesn't matter how you do it, it's still murder. Just because a man takes control of his body and beats the shit out of his girlfriend doesn't mean that "right" is protected. It is murder to kill even using your hands, and your body can be considered a weapon if you are using it as the instrument to hurt or kill another.

Playing Devil's Advocate (I know that's stepping down from my role as Satan), what if someone takes EVERY precaution and still ends up pregnant but has no business with a child?

How about rape or incest?

Medical necessity to save the life of the mother?

Just trying to get exactly where you stand.

 

[JBeukema]

I'm sorry Mr Chihauhau ... are you attempting to nip at my heels? I wear fucking boots, so give it up.

With or without the steel shank to protect the sole of the foot?

One, liberalism does not condone dodging personal responsibility. The left in this country however, does.

Modern day leftist 'liberals' seem to fully embrace Libertinism It is they whom I was addressing. As something of a right-leaning libertarian (not Libertarian), I have no issue with Classical Liberalism (what later became the 'conservatism' of the GOP back in the day) as a whole.

I'm a liberal. I'm NOT a leftist. I firmly believe in personal responsibility. That's the whole fucking problem with leftwing hillbillies -- they've turned "liberal" into a dirty word claiming ot be something they aren't.

You mean like neo-cons who co-opted 'conservatism' and began calling for a return to the status quo ante circa the Dark Ages?

Playing Devil's Advocate (I know that's stepping down from my role as Satan), what if someone takes EVERY precaution and still ends up pregnant but has no business with a child?

How about rape or incest?

Medical necessity to save the life of the mother?

Just trying to get exactly where you stand.

I know that was towards Allie, but I will volunteer my own responses.

If someone is an unfit parent, we have CPS investigate and, if appropriate, find a foster home (I understand that our current system is jacked- we need to invest much time and effort into making the system work as it was envisioned)

Rape/Incest: Help her find counseling, lock up the attacker, and help the woman find or provide a good home. The Left (as a whole) doesn't care about rape victims- they showed that when they had Norma McCorvey lie about being raped in order to get Roe V. Wade decided in their favor.

Medical Emergency: I don't understand how this is even an issue. Doctors are there to preserve life and health. If, as with an ectopic pregnancy that does not self-abort, the options are letting two+ persons (woman + cild) die or saving one life, the only moral and ethical option is to preserve the life that can be saved. To me, it's just like pulling someone out of a burning car- if only one can be pulled out, then the moral thing is to do so, not to let both people in the car burn to death. While the exact circumstances may at first appear different, the choice is the same: save one life, or let both lives perish.

 

[Dis]

I'm sorry Mr Chihauhau ... are you attempting to nip at my heels? I wear fucking boots, so give it up.

With or without the steel shank to protect the sole of the foot?

One, liberalism does not condone dodging personal responsibility. The left in this country however, does.

Modern day leftist 'liberals' seem to fully embrace Libertinism It is they whom I was addressing. As something of a right-leaning libertarian (not Libertarian), I have no issue with Classical Liberalism (what later became the 'conservatism' of the GOP back in the day) as a whole.

I'm a liberal. I'm NOT a leftist. I firmly believe in personal responsibility. That's the whole fucking problem with leftwing hillbillies -- they've turned "liberal" into a dirty word claiming ot be something they aren't.

You mean like neo-cons who co-opted 'conservatism' and began calling for a return to the status quo ante circa the Dark Ages?

Playing Devil's Advocate (I know that's stepping down from my role as Satan), what if someone takes EVERY precaution and still ends up pregnant but has no business with a child?

How about rape or incest?

Medical necessity to save the life of the mother?

Just trying to get exactly where you stand.

I know that was towards Allie, but I will volunteer my own responses.

If someone is an unfit parent, we have CPS investigate and, if appropriate, find a foster home (I understand that our current system is jacked- we need to invest much time and effort into making the system work as it was envisioned)

Rape/Incest: Help her find counseling, lock up the attacker, and help the woman find or provide a good home. The Left (as a whole) doesn't care about rape victims- they showed that when they had Norma McCorvey lie about being raped in order to get Roe V. Wade decided in their favor.

Medical Emergency: I don't understand how this is even an issue. Doctors are there to preserve life and health. If, as with an ectopic pregnancy that does not self-abort, the options are letting two+ persons (woman + cild) die or saving one life, the only moral and ethical option is to preserve the life that can be saved. To me, it's just like pulling someone out of a burning car- if only one can be pulled out, then the moral thing is to do so, not to let both people in the car burn to death. While the exact circumstances may at first appear different, the choice is the same: save one life, or let both lives perish.

Seriously? What about the foster homes that are so overloaded now? What about all the children that remain wards of the state NOW because there's no room for them?

Also, a woman raped should have to relive that every day for the next 9 months, all the while not knowing what she's going to end up with? And then what? Give yet another child to the already overcrowded foster system, and government agencies?

What would you choose in the case of saving the life of the mother vs. saving the life of the child? Should the mother carry to term, and give birth, the child will likely live, but she will die. Which one do you choose to kill at that point?

 

[JBeukema]

Seriously? What about the foster homes that are so overloaded now? What about all the children that remain wards of the state NOW because there's no room for them?

First off, only quote what you are responding to. You're getting fucking annoying with the whole being too stupid to use the backspace key.

secondly, I already addressed that.

So, where I said we need to fix the system, dis has said we should kill babies because the system's jacked and fixing it is too hard.

Also, a woman raped should have to relive that every day for the next 9 months, all the while not knowing what she's going to end up with?

1) She doesn't 'relive that every day for the next 9 months'

2)Your rape does not justify murder. if ricardo Ramirez not liable for his crimes because he was victimized?

3)'Not knowing what she's going to end up with'? So, all women are mentally retarded and too stupid to contact a doctor?

And then what? Give yet another child to the already overcrowded foster system, and government agencies?

As I said: fix the system

What would you choose in the case of saving the life of the mother vs. saving the life of the child?

That's for all parties involved to decide, like rare forms of conjoined twins. If you only have time to oull one person from that burning car, do you grab whoever you can and try to your damnest to save the other, or just let them both die because you're making up hypos to justifiy murder?

However, such a condition almost never occurs, thanks to modern neonatal care and medical advances.

Should the mother carry to term, and give birth, the child will likely live, but she will die. Which one do you choose to kill at that point?

doesn't happen. If the birthing is the issue, you can do a C-Section. Otherwise, the doctor must make a decision- unless the woman is willing to be a hero, he'll likely save the woman as it has a higher probability of success than a child whose medical condition at birth cannot yet be known

 

[del]

Seriously? What about the foster homes that are so overloaded now? What about all the children that remain wards of the state NOW because there's no room for them?

First off, only quote what you are responding to. You're getting fucking annoying with the whole being too stupid to use the backspace key.

secondly, I already addressed that.

So, where I said we need to fix the system, dis has said we should kill babies because the system's jacked and fixing it is too hard.

Also, a woman raped should have to relive that every day for the next 9 months, all the while not knowing what she's going to end up with?

1) She doesn't 'relive that every day for the next 9 months'

2)Your rape does not justify murder. if ricardo Ramirez not liable for his crimes because he was victimized?

3)'Not knowing what she's going to end up with'? So, all women are mentally retarded and too stupid to contact a doctor?



As I said: fix the system

What would you choose in the case of saving the life of the mother vs. saving the life of the child?

That's for all parties involved to decide, like rare forms of conjoined twins. If you only have time to oull one person from that burning car, do you grab whoever you can and try to your damnest to save the other, or just let them both die because you're making up hypos to justifiy murder?

However, such a condition almost never occurs, thanks to modern neonatal care and medical advances.

Should the mother carry to term, and give birth, the child will likely live, but she will die. Which one do you choose to kill at that point?

doesn't happen. If the birthing is the issue, you can do a C-Section. Otherwise, the doctor must make a decision- unless the woman is willing to be a hero, he'll likely save the woman as it has a higher probability of success than a child whose medical condition at birth cannot yet be known

we'll let you know when we want you to make the posting rules here, fuckroast. when the phone don't ring, your time will have come

 

[Dis]

Seriously? What about the foster homes that are so overloaded now? What about all the children that remain wards of the state NOW because there's no room for them?

First off, only quote what you are responding to. You're getting fucking annoying with the whole being too stupid to use the backspace key.

secondly, I already addressed that.

So, where I said we need to fix the system, dis has said we should kill babies because the system's jacked and fixing it is too hard.

Also, a woman raped should have to relive that every day for the next 9 months, all the while not knowing what she's going to end up with?

1) She doesn't 'relive that every day for the next 9 months'

2)Your rape does not justify murder. if ricardo Ramirez not liable for his crimes because he was victimized?

3)'Not knowing what she's going to end up with'? So, all women are mentally retarded and too stupid to contact a doctor?



As I said: fix the system

What would you choose in the case of saving the life of the mother vs. saving the life of the child?

That's for all parties involved to decide, like rare forms of conjoined twins. If you only have time to oull one person from that burning car, do you grab whoever you can and try to your damnest to save the other, or just let them both die because you're making up hypos to justifiy murder?

However, such a condition almost never occurs, thanks to modern neonatal care and medical advances.

Should the mother carry to term, and give birth, the child will likely live, but she will die. Which one do you choose to kill at that point?

doesn't happen. If the birthing is the issue, you can do a C-Section. Otherwise, the doctor must make a decision- unless the woman is willing to be a hero, he'll likely save the woman as it has a higher probability of success than a child whose medical condition at birth cannot yet be known

First off, I will respond in any manner I see fit. So far, you aren't worth the time and effort to edit out everything except that which I'm replying to. You ARE worth the effort for me to have bolded it, however. You should be happy with what you get. If you're not, fuck you.

Second, who the hell died and made you God? Tho, while you're God, I suggest you get to fixing that already severely broken system prior to throwing more children into it. In fact, how many of those children have YOU taken on?

Your burning car scenario is a load of complete shit and has nothing to do with abortion. A woman raped should not be forced to carry a child she had zero intention of conceiving. She was not a willing partner. She was FORCED. It damn well justifies an abortion, or the morning after pill.

I'm probably one of the most anti-abortion/take fucking responsibility for your actions or keep your god damned legs closed people I know, and even I have the sense to see that as much as *I* might disagree with it, there just MIGHT be some reason for abortion. If it's not my body, it's not my choice to make.

Personally, if I were raped, and became pregnant as a result of it, I think I'm strong enough to carry the baby to term, and actually keep it. But that's me, personally, based on other things in life I've endured. I damned sure don't have the right to tell someone else they need to just suck it the hell up and keep it.

Oh, and by the way... You're getting fucking annoying, being too god damned stupid to reply without insult.

 

[JBeukema]

First off, I will respond in any manner I see fit.

In other words, you enjoy being irritating.

Second, who the hell died and made you God?

Jesus

A woman raped should not be forced to carry a child she had zero intention of conceiving. She was not a willing partner. She was FORCED

and?

I'm probably one of the most anti-abortion/take fucking responsibility for your actions or keep your god damned legs closed people

evidently not, as you're looking so hard for an excuse to kill an unborn child

If it's not my body, it's not my choice to make.

that's actually an argument for the pro-life movement, if you understand the slightest bit about biology and reproduction

Oh, and by the way... You're getting fucking annoying, being too god damned stupid to reply without insult.

I respond to all point and debunk morons like you all the time. The observations regarding your lack of intellect and education are simply there as helpful criticism so you can better yourself

 

[Tinktink]

Also, a woman raped should have to relive that every day for the next 9 months, all the while not knowing what she's going to end up with?

1) She doesn't 'relive that every day for the next 9 months'

You are right, most relive it everyday for years, sometimes forever. The first 9 months however, are torture. I take it you have been a victim of rape and got pregnant during it, considering how knowledgable you are about "She". Huh?