Abortion

[sealybobo]

Then don't get pregnant. And if an accident happens - give it up for adoption. Plenty of options that don't include a heinous murder.

It's not murder. But I know you and trump would make it illegal.

It's not? Then perhaps you could help me to understand this? I'm just a lowly conservative. I'm not one of highly "enlightened" liberals so perhaps you would be kind enough to assist me here... You see - here are two people charged with murder (one of which who utilized the legally approved, FDA approved method for abortions).

Scott Peterson was charged with a double homicide. One for Lacy Peterson and one for the baby in her womb.

Scott Peterson Trial Fast Facts - CNN.com

And John Welden was charged with murder when he slipped his girlfriend an abortion pill that terminated her pregnancy:

Man tricks pregnant girlfriend into taking abortion pill - CNN.com

Oops...

God doesn't murder babies, does he? God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives. The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old. And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6


Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.

Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

Republicans want to make women who get abortions also purchase funerals and cemetary plots. You guys are sick and wrong. Beyelzebob

I have to say.....that was one of the more bizarre rants I've seen on USMB. It's almost as if you are paralyzed with fear by the facts and my simple question.

So I will ask it again - if a fetus is not a person, how is it that people have been charged with murder for killing the fetus?

Yea, I don't like that they did that. It's a slippery slope. It is very obvious you guys are trying to make a fetus a life. It is not. Sorry.

 

[sealybobo]

Is there a reason you don't rejoice in a child's freedom to choose for themself?

Not a child a fetus.

So it will be what? A horse?

Apparently a horse's ass in some cases.

Really, so the baby will be a horse?

I love when libtards come to the realization that they can't answer that simple question

I love it when you can't stand the fact that the law in your own country says it's perfectly legal to murder a fetus. But you can't murder a 1 year old baby. There must be a difference.

 

[P@triot]

It comes as no surprise, of course, that conservatives seek only to increase the size and authority of government at the expense of individual liberty: more government, more government intruding into our personal lives.

The authoritarian right advocates compelling women to give birth against their will through force of law in violation of the 14th Amendment, but they do nothing to pursue actual solutions to the problem of abortion.

Everyone is pro-life, everyone wishes to end the practice of abortion, in this regard there is no conflict or disagreement.

The conflict and disagreement manifest when conservatives facilitate ‘solutions’ to ‘end’ abortion that fail to comport with the Constitution and its case law.

Clearly you have no idea what the 14th Amendment states as it is the exact opposite of your idiotic interpretation.

The 14th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified on July 9, 1868, and granted citizenship to “all persons born or naturalized in the United States,” which included former slaves recently freed. In addition, it forbids states from denying any person "life, liberty or property, without due process of law" or to "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” By directly mentioning the role of the states, the 14th Amendment greatly expanded the protection of civil rights to all Americans and is cited in more litigation than any other amendment.

You just affirmed the baby's right to life and the unconstitutionality of Roe vs. Wade.

You need to actually read and comprehend what you just posted. It clearly says anyone BORN or naturalized in the United States. A fetus isn't born or naturalized while it's still inside the woman's body. Therefore your argument is worthless and you shows you don't understand the meaning of words in the english language. I do and so do most intelligent people. You, not so much.

You're reading comprehension is either that of a kindergartener or you're a typical disingenuous liberal. There are multiple clauses in the 14th Amendment. That's why it says "in addition". The first clause - the one you cited - is regarding citizenship. It then shifts gears. "In addition, it forbids states from denying any person life...."

That was an epic fail on your part. Weak. Very weak. You have to do better than that.

 

[sealybobo]

I rejoice in The freedom to decide for myself. People who shouldn't be having kids not having kids.

Is there a reason you don't rejoice in a child's freedom to choose for themself?

Not a child a fetus.

Is there a reason you don't rejoice in a fetus's freedom to choose for themself?

Because chances are the woman who aborts them isn't going to be a good parent and isn't going to raise a good citizen. Plus we are over populated.

I like it that women in poverty get abortions. Wise decision if you ask me. But the fact is a lot of middle class and rich women choose to abort too.

Think about how full our prisons would be if every aborter was considered a murderer.

You live in the wrong country/century.

 

[P@triot]

Not a child a fetus.

So it will be what? A horse?

Apparently a horse's ass in some cases.

Really, so the baby will be a horse?

I love when libtards come to the realization that they can't answer that simple question

I love it when you can't stand the fact that the law in your own country says it's perfectly legal to murder a fetus. But you can't murder a 1 year old baby. There must be a difference.

So again.....for the third time now....why were people brought up on murder charges for killing a fetus? It's a very simple question and you're an "enlightened" liberal - so why can't you answer this for me?

 

[sealybobo]

Is there a reason you don't rejoice in a child's freedom to choose for themself?

Not a child a fetus.

So it will be what? A horse?

Apparently a horse's ass in some cases.

Really, so the baby will be a horse?

I love when libtards come to the realization that they can't answer that simple question

Here is where you should move:

Six nations – the Holy See, Malta, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Chile – do not allow abortion under any circumstances.

A further 13 countries have such tight controls upon abortion that for many it is an impossibility. Among these are nations such as Malawi, Iran and Haiti,

 

[hazlnut]

In recent news, Donald Trump got snookered by Chris Matthews with a hypothetical question about abortion. Chris got Donald to say that women should be punished if abortion was illegal.

For his entire campaign, Donald has seemed impervious to PC, until now. Now all of a sudden people seem to care about their abortion rights as it has negatively effected Donald in the polls. For you see, those who support Trump in large part are not really conservatives. They just want someone to kick start the economy and restore order at the border, so the abortion issue is like salt in their wounds because these same people don't want to be held financially responsible for their reproductive actions. For you see, all they care about is their money, just like Donald. In response, Trump has back peddled and said the question was a "gottcha" moment, which it was, but now refuses to talk about it other than saying he thinks it should be a state right issue.

Then enters Hillary. Hillary comes out and talks about the unborn as an "unborn person" and "unborn child". Big mistake in terms of the psychology of word play. She now is taking flack from both happy go lucky abortionists and those who oppose abortion. She then comes out and says that the "unborn children" have no Constitutional rights, BUT she thinks that there should be restrictions on abortion in the third trimester.

Wait.....wut?

What I find the most hilarious of all is that I know neither candidate gives much of a damn about the abortion issue, and it shows. Their lack of introspective rigor on the issue is shining before us, as both slide down in the polls. Their half/half squeamish stance on abortion is on full display for all to see.

But I thought Trump had a "good brain" and went to a great business school. How did he get snookered?

 

[P@triot]

Because chances are the woman who aborts them isn't going to be a good parent and isn't going to raise a good citizen. Plus we are over populated.

We are?!? Says who?!? You? You get to decide for all of society that we are "over populated"?

By the way - if we are "overpopulated" - how come the liberal population control freaks never volunteer to kill themselves to help be part of the solution? Right now - you are part of the problem that you claim exists. So rather than supporting killing babies, why don't people like yourself, Barack Obama, Hitlery Clinton, etc. kill yourselves?

 

[P@triot]

Not a child a fetus.

So it will be what? A horse?

Apparently a horse's ass in some cases.

Really, so the baby will be a horse?

I love when libtards come to the realization that they can't answer that simple question

Here is where you should move:

Six nations – the Holy See, Malta, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Chile – do not allow abortion under any circumstances.

A further 13 countries have such tight controls upon abortion that for many it is an impossibility. Among these are nations such as Malawi, Iran and Haiti,

That's where you should move. You're the one who hates the United States and violates the Constitution. I love the U.S. and I completely support the Constitution. Every letter of it.

 

[sealybobo]

So it will be what? A horse?

Apparently a horse's ass in some cases.

Really, so the baby will be a horse?

I love when libtards come to the realization that they can't answer that simple question

I love it when you can't stand the fact that the law in your own country says it's perfectly legal to murder a fetus. But you can't murder a 1 year old baby. There must be a difference.

So again.....for the third time now....why were people brought up on murder charges for killing a fetus? It's a very simple question and you're an "enlightened" liberal - so why can't you answer this for me?

They shouldn't have done that.

He was charged with first-degree murder in the death of Laci and second-degree murder in the death of their near-term son. Why wasn't it 1st degree murder of his son?

Those 12 jurors are not Supreme Court justices, are they? Does their decision set a precedence?

She was also a month away from giving birth. That baby may have been able to live outside the body on its own at that point.

Late term abortions are only done if the baby is going to be severely retarded or for the safety of the mother. It isn't legal to just decide a week before you give birth to get an abortion, is it? For no reason you can't walk into an abortion clinic a week before you are ready to give birth and say, "give me an abortion", are you? So that's why he was convicted of double murder. They shouldn't have done that but it's impossible to defend the scumbag for what he did so...

 

[P@triot]

I rejoice in The freedom to decide for myself. People who shouldn't be having kids not having kids.

Is there a reason you don't rejoice in a child's freedom to choose for themself?

Not a child a fetus.

Is there a reason you don't rejoice in a fetus's freedom to choose for themself?

Because chances are the woman who aborts them isn't going to be a good parent and isn't going to raise a good citizen.

So then she can give it up for adoption. I know someone in a similar situation and they are raising their grandchild because their daughter was not ready/capable. There are tons of options that don't include killing.

 

[sealybobo]

Because chances are the woman who aborts them isn't going to be a good parent and isn't going to raise a good citizen. Plus we are over populated.

We are?!? Says who?!? You? You get to decide for all of society that we are "over populated"?

By the way - if we are "overpopulated" - how come the liberal population control freaks never volunteer to kill themselves to help be part of the solution? Right now - you are part of the problem that you claim exists. So rather than supporting killing babies, why don't people like yourself, Barack Obama, Hitlery Clinton, etc. kill yourselves?

Nah. We will just abort our babies. What do you care? We're just going to raise them to be liberals scum, right? Would you go back 45 years and stop my mom from aborting?

And all you have to do is look at the joblessness in places like Detroit to figure out we are over populated. Sure it'd be better if they didn't get prego in the first place but if they do, abort.

 

[P@triot]

Those 12 jurors are not Supreme Court justices, are they? Does their decision set a precedence?

So you're saying those guys should not have been charged with murder then - right?

 

[sealybobo]

I rejoice in The freedom to decide for myself. People who shouldn't be having kids not having kids.

Is there a reason you don't rejoice in a child's freedom to choose for themself?

Not a child a fetus.

Is there a reason you don't rejoice in a fetus's freedom to choose for themself?

Because chances are the woman who aborts them isn't going to be a good parent and isn't going to raise a good citizen.

So then she can give it up for adoption. I know someone in a similar situation and they are raising their grandchild because their daughter was not ready/capable. There are tons of options that don't include killing.

If those options don't work for a woman she can always abort.

I know a woman who's parents refused to help so she had to go on welfare. You guys don't like welfare. So when you take that safety net away, expect more abortions.

 

[sealybobo]

Those 12 jurors are not Supreme Court justices, are they? Does their decision set a precedence?

So you're saying those guys should not have been charged with murder then - right?

Not double murder. But still bad enough to justify the death penalty.

It's like a hate crime. No need to charge anyone with a hate crime. Just charge Peterson for the crime he committed. He killed a pregnant woman. That should be enough.

 

[P@triot]

Nah. We will just abort our babies.

But that's not helping. You said we are already over populated. Killing babies doesn't help that problem. The only thing that helps that problem is terminating people already outside of the womb. So why don't liberals put their money where there mouth is and be part of the solution?

What do you care?

That's like saying why do I care that 12 law enforcement officers were shot in Dallas the other day or why do I care that a woman was raped somewhere last night. Because I'm not a Neanderthal and because I know that once we become a lawless nation- all is lost. And the Supremacy Clause establishes the U.S. Constitution the highest law in the land and it says we have the right to life.

We're just going to raise them to be liberals scum, right? Would you go back 45 years and stop my mom from aborting?

Not at all. I'm glad you're here having this discussion with me. It's been a joy. You're not snarky or rude. The world is a much better place because you're in it and USMB is a much better place because you're in it.

And all you have to do is look at the joblessness in places like Detroit to figure out we are over populated. Sure it'd be better if they didn't get prego in the first place but if they do, abort.

Yeah - Detroit is a mess. But that's because of liberal policy, not over population. There are cities all over America thriving and looking for people to fill vacant jobs. Just look at North Dakota. It's crazy up there. They are paying $25 per hour for entry level employees at McDonald's and Walmart and truck drivers are being paid over six-figures.

 

[P@triot]

Those 12 jurors are not Supreme Court justices, are they? Does their decision set a precedence?

So you're saying those guys should not have been charged with murder then - right?

Not double murder. But still bad enough to justify the death penalty.

It's like a hate crime. No need to charge anyone with a hate crime. Just charge Peterson for the crime he committed. He killed a pregnant woman. That should be enough.

Ok. Then we agree then. The law must be applied equally. If a woman can have an abortion without the father's consent than a father must absolutely be allowed by law to have an abortion without the mother's consent. So John Welden should not have been brought up on any charges.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I rejoice in The freedom to decide for myself. People who shouldn't be having kids not having kids.

Is there a reason you don't rejoice in a child's freedom to choose for themself?

Not a child a fetus.

So it will be what? A horse?

Apparently a horse's ass in some cases.

Really, so the baby will be a horse?

Doesn't matter what the fetus will be.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Those 12 jurors are not Supreme Court justices, are they? Does their decision set a precedence?

So you're saying those guys should not have been charged with murder then - right?

Not double murder. But still bad enough to justify the death penalty.

It's like a hate crime. No need to charge anyone with a hate crime. Just charge Peterson for the crime he committed. He killed a pregnant woman. That should be enough.

Ok. Then we agree then. The law must be applied equally. If a woman can have an abortion without the father's consent than a father must absolutely be allowed by law to have an abortion without the mother's consent. So John Welden should not have been brought up on any charges.

The law is applied equally. Men don't get pregnant.

 

[owebo]

Is there a reason you don't rejoice in a child's freedom to choose for themself?

Not a child a fetus.

So it will be what? A horse?

Apparently a horse's ass in some cases.

Really, so the baby will be a horse?

Doesn't matter what the fetus will be.

You seem to think it isn't a baby? So, what is it?