CDZ A thought on armed teachers - how we could make it work

[Taz]

I can't see any value in it all. Stop worrying about all the control freak bullshit and just let the teachers who want to carry, carry. Problem solved. Not one of these retarded lib freaks has came with anything that will stop it except the tired and worn out taking more guns away from people who had nothing to do with it.

Take a deep breath there, Mike. You will feel better soon.

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

As long as you continue to deny teachers a right to defend themselves and the kids YOU are responsible.

A society must be really sick if its only solution is to arm the teachers.

 

[Erinwltr]

I can't see any value in it all. Stop worrying about all the control freak bullshit and just let the teachers who want to carry, carry. Problem solved. Not one of these retarded lib freaks has came with anything that will stop it except the tired and worn out taking more guns away from people who had nothing to do with it.

Take a deep breath there, Mike. You will feel better soon.

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

That number is also largely propaganda, and has little to do with the actual school shootings we are discussing. When the list was published after the Kentucky school shooting, it included so bogus additions to the list. At least 2 of them were suicides by students. The fact that they used a gun was incidental. They would have done it anyway. One of the "school shootings" on that list is a pellet gun shooting of a school bus window. And one of the "school shootings" was a 30something year old man who committed suicide in the parking lot of an empty school. But the fact that he used a gun in an empty school parking lot makes it the same as some lunatic killing 12 or 17 kids? No. This kind of smear propaganda does no one any good.

Excellent quote by Mr. Booker.

 

[Correll]

So when teachers have to spend money out of their own pocket at virtually EVERY school, so the kids will have what they need, the answer is "No!". But when it comes to spending lots of money to arm teachers for a relatively rare occurrance, somehow the money is there?

Will these retired military "teachers" be able to teach? People spend years learning to do it, and the test scores are still slipping. People with no experience will be able to do the job?

We spend a lot on education. Where is the money going?

Well, for starters there are more than 3 million full-time teachers. Add support staff and admin, textbooks, library materials, administrative equipment, computers, utility bills, internet access, buses (main. & fuel) and it adds up quick.

per student spending.

Typical of what we do in this country. Throw money at an issue and expect that to solve the problem or improve an issue.

Throw money at a problem? When the average teacher has to spend $500 a year out of their own pockets (which are not bery deep to begin with), we can't be throwing much money at the problem.

THe money has been put into the system, more and more and MORE.

IF it is not being spent on the students, that is the fault of the education system, not "We", the people.

 

[Geaux4it]

Two of my female cousins are teachers and have CCW's. They believe it is a great idea. I would think if one of the teachers in Florida had been carrying illegally, and stopped the carnage, there would have been no charges brought fwd

Teachers who are willing should carry anyway

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

-Geaux

 

[debbiedowner]

My wife is a public school teacher - 21 years in

one of her co-workers is retired military, Air Force Major

my thought - EVERY public school should have one ex military officer for every 100 - 150 kids enrolled

these teachers would be specially licensed to carry a firearm at the school

this would be in addition to the SRO (School Resource Officer) & would provide backup and added protection; the SRO would be the "point man" and be "in charge" in an emergency situation

so - a school with 500 students would have an SRO (real police officer) and FIVE trained and armed teachers for protection and emergency situations - for a total of 6 people trained and armed to secure the school

these ex military teachers (could also be retired police, or similar field) would receive an additional $5,000 - $10,000 per year for their added responsibility (that works out to $250 - $500 a month in pay - seems fair) and would be responsible to attend training and anti terrorism instructions at least once a quarter - all of them get together and run training exorcises and study and practice best hiding places for students; best modes of exit, etc)

I could easily see a state like Alabama or Louisiana piloting and testing a system like this & I also think it would work - IE reduce the number of shootings/incidents; because the knowledge of the added security would serve as a deterrent - would make schools less of a soft target

many schools already have ex military on staff that could already participate

what do y'all think of that?

I do not totally oppose having trained teachers who are permitted to carry concealed. I do not want open carry in schools

Raises a lot of issues on level of training, ability to handle an active shooter situation and expectation of the ability of a teacher to confront a gunman with an AR-15 using only a handgun

It works in the movies where the good guy always gets the bad guy despite overwhelming odds. In real life, an innocent student could get killed or the teacher could be confused with the gunman when the police arrive

There is no training for someone shooting at you. It is pretty simple though for most people with any sense. If the shooting starts, take cover, or shoot back or a combination there of. In the current situation made possible by the government who protects us all, it plays out like this: The shooting starts, lots of people die.

Police go to weeks of training on how to engage a shooter and they still make mistakes
Much like police, an untrained teacher would be jumping at shadows and firing at anything that looks like a threat

An armed teacher could kill a shooter.....but there are also risks

There's always risks. And the cops train for weeks with NO ONE shooting at them. There is no training on how to be shot at. LOL jumping at shadows. If the shadow has a gun shoot it. But lets face it all you RL's want is a gun ban, and that will not stop shootings.

Why don't you volunteer your time and gun and go to school everyday big man.

 

[Taz]

I can't see any value in it all. Stop worrying about all the control freak bullshit and just let the teachers who want to carry, carry. Problem solved. Not one of these retarded lib freaks has came with anything that will stop it except the tired and worn out taking more guns away from people who had nothing to do with it.

Take a deep breath there, Mike. You will feel better soon.

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

That number is also largely propaganda, and has little to do with the actual school shootings we are discussing. When the list was published after the Kentucky school shooting, it included so bogus additions to the list. At least 2 of them were suicides by students. The fact that they used a gun was incidental. They would have done it anyway. One of the "school shootings" on that list is a pellet gun shooting of a school bus window. And one of the "school shootings" was a 30something year old man who committed suicide in the parking lot of an empty school. But the fact that he used a gun in an empty school parking lot makes it the same as some lunatic killing 12 or 17 kids? No. This kind of smear propaganda does no one any good.

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

 

[miketx]

Very interesting to say the least. Why do you see Alabama or Louisiana as easy testing grounds for said program?

Two states that I think would be receptive to the idea and be easier to pass this and test the idea

Texas already allows this on a smaller scale, but not as a matter of actual policy

Doesn't Texas lock the doors and station 2 or 3 teacher's, resource officers at front door with an overhead security camera and you have to pass through these people in to get into the school?

I like the idea of metal detector's and door locking after everyone reports to school.

I spoke with a resource officer yesterday at our local schools he said it would be a nightmare if every teacher had a gun. It would make it very difficult when a swat team arrived to distinguish legal gun carrying teachers from the bad guys. But maybe just a few trained ex military is a good idea.

Total gun banner nonsense. If a teacher takes the shooter out, what are they all gonna keep shooting at? You people get more ridiculous everyday. But dont worry, if the teachers do shoot the guy, the will know who the shooter is. He'll be the dead guy with the gun.

No you people don't know your ass from a hole in a ground. When there are 50 teachers shooting who the hell do the cops know who the real shooter is? Answer that asshat. Some schools are big enough that every teacher doesn't know the other teachers. Think about that clown.

Why are 50 teachers in different areas of the school gonna shoot at a killer no where near them that they can't see? lol Yeah, just pull their guns out and start shooting randomly. Sounds legit.

 

[WinterBorn]

We spend a lot on education. Where is the money going?

Well, for starters there are more than 3 million full-time teachers. Add support staff and admin, textbooks, library materials, administrative equipment, computers, utility bills, internet access, buses (main. & fuel) and it adds up quick.

per student spending.

Typical of what we do in this country. Throw money at an issue and expect that to solve the problem or improve an issue.

Throw money at a problem? When the average teacher has to spend $500 a year out of their own pockets (which are not bery deep to begin with), we can't be throwing much money at the problem.

THe money has been put into the system, more and more and MORE.

IF it is not being spent on the students, that is the fault of the education system, not "We", the people.

Then look at where the money is going. Require that a certain percentage of all education money goes to the classroom (supplies, teacher salaries ect). Maybe this could be a good time to examine where the money goes.

 

[Correll]

Very interesting to say the least. Why do you see Alabama or Louisiana as easy testing grounds for said program?

Two states that I think would be receptive to the idea and be easier to pass this and test the idea

Texas already allows this on a smaller scale, but not as a matter of actual policy

Doesn't Texas lock the doors and station 2 or 3 teacher's, resource officers at front door with an overhead security camera and you have to pass through these people in to get into the school?

I like the idea of metal detector's and door locking after everyone reports to school.

I spoke with a resource officer yesterday at our local schools he said it would be a nightmare if every teacher had a gun. It would make it very difficult when a swat team arrived to distinguish legal gun carrying teachers from the bad guys. But maybe just a few trained ex military is a good idea.

Total gun banner nonsense. If a teacher takes the shooter out, what are they all gonna keep shooting at? You people get more ridiculous everyday. But dont worry, if the teachers do shoot the guy, the will know who the shooter is. He'll be the dead guy with the gun.

No you people don't know your ass from a hole in a ground. When there are 50 teachers shooting who the hell do the cops know who the real shooter is? Answer that asshat. Some schools are big enough that every teacher doesn't know the other teachers. Think about that clown.

Your question reveals a complete lack of understanding of self defense.

 

[WinterBorn]

I can't see any value in it all. Stop worrying about all the control freak bullshit and just let the teachers who want to carry, carry. Problem solved. Not one of these retarded lib freaks has came with anything that will stop it except the tired and worn out taking more guns away from people who had nothing to do with it.

Take a deep breath there, Mike. You will feel better soon.

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

That number is also largely propaganda, and has little to do with the actual school shootings we are discussing. When the list was published after the Kentucky school shooting, it included so bogus additions to the list. At least 2 of them were suicides by students. The fact that they used a gun was incidental. They would have done it anyway. One of the "school shootings" on that list is a pellet gun shooting of a school bus window. And one of the "school shootings" was a 30something year old man who committed suicide in the parking lot of an empty school. But the fact that he used a gun in an empty school parking lot makes it the same as some lunatic killing 12 or 17 kids? No. This kind of smear propaganda does no one any good.

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

 

[rightwinger]

A lone policeman, armed with his service revolver is probably not going to engage a shooter. He is outgunned at that point. Normally they would call for backup

A single teacher, armed with a handgun, with little training is ill-equipped to do battle with an active shooter
If the opportunity arises, where he could get off a shot undetected, he may kill the shooter. But going head to head against an AR-15 is not adviseable

Mass shooters have been stopped by lone cops with their carry guns and/or single armed teachers.


There are people walking around today, lots of them, because mass shooters were stopped by such people way before "back up" would have arrived.

I didn't say it can't happen
But the expectation of untrained hero teachers is overrated

In the movies, the good guy always wins. In real life, mistakes are made....even by highly trained police officers

 

[JakeStarkey]

School teachers should not be a Quick Reaction Force. If an Instructor is CW, s/he should secure his/her classroom and hunker down.

The money needs to be in 'hardening' the entry points to as school and adding an extra SRO to each school.

 

[Taz]

Take a deep breath there, Mike. You will feel better soon.

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

That number is also largely propaganda, and has little to do with the actual school shootings we are discussing. When the list was published after the Kentucky school shooting, it included so bogus additions to the list. At least 2 of them were suicides by students. The fact that they used a gun was incidental. They would have done it anyway. One of the "school shootings" on that list is a pellet gun shooting of a school bus window. And one of the "school shootings" was a 30something year old man who committed suicide in the parking lot of an empty school. But the fact that he used a gun in an empty school parking lot makes it the same as some lunatic killing 12 or 17 kids? No. This kind of smear propaganda does no one any good.

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

 

[miketx]

A lone policeman, armed with his service revolver is probably not going to engage a shooter. He is outgunned at that point. Normally they would call for backup

A single teacher, armed with a handgun, with little training is ill-equipped to do battle with an active shooter
If the opportunity arises, where he could get off a shot undetected, he may kill the shooter. But going head to head against an AR-15 is not adviseable

Mass shooters have been stopped by lone cops with their carry guns and/or single armed teachers.


There are people walking around today, lots of them, because mass shooters were stopped by such people way before "back up" would have arrived.

I didn't say it can't happen
But the expectation of untrained hero teachers is overrated

In the movies, the good guy always wins. In real life, mistakes are made....even by highly trained police officers

Alright, you win. Let's let the killing continue. No skin off my nose. If that's the way you guys want it, so be it.

 

[WinterBorn]

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

That number is also largely propaganda, and has little to do with the actual school shootings we are discussing. When the list was published after the Kentucky school shooting, it included so bogus additions to the list. At least 2 of them were suicides by students. The fact that they used a gun was incidental. They would have done it anyway. One of the "school shootings" on that list is a pellet gun shooting of a school bus window. And one of the "school shootings" was a 30something year old man who committed suicide in the parking lot of an empty school. But the fact that he used a gun in an empty school parking lot makes it the same as some lunatic killing 12 or 17 kids? No. This kind of smear propaganda does no one any good.

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

 

[Correll]

Well, for starters there are more than 3 million full-time teachers. Add support staff and admin, textbooks, library materials, administrative equipment, computers, utility bills, internet access, buses (main. & fuel) and it adds up quick.

per student spending.

Typical of what we do in this country. Throw money at an issue and expect that to solve the problem or improve an issue.

Throw money at a problem? When the average teacher has to spend $500 a year out of their own pockets (which are not bery deep to begin with), we can't be throwing much money at the problem.

THe money has been put into the system, more and more and MORE.

IF it is not being spent on the students, that is the fault of the education system, not "We", the people.

Then look at where the money is going. Require that a certain percentage of all education money goes to the classroom (supplies, teacher salaries ect). Maybe this could be a good time to examine where the money goes.

Sure. I would love to.


Of course, the problem is that education funding is easy for demagogues.

 

[rightwinger]

My wife is a public school teacher - 21 years in

one of her co-workers is retired military, Air Force Major

my thought - EVERY public school should have one ex military officer for every 100 - 150 kids enrolled

these teachers would be specially licensed to carry a firearm at the school

this would be in addition to the SRO (School Resource Officer) & would provide backup and added protection; the SRO would be the "point man" and be "in charge" in an emergency situation

so - a school with 500 students would have an SRO (real police officer) and FIVE trained and armed teachers for protection and emergency situations - for a total of 6 people trained and armed to secure the school

these ex military teachers (could also be retired police, or similar field) would receive an additional $5,000 - $10,000 per year for their added responsibility (that works out to $250 - $500 a month in pay - seems fair) and would be responsible to attend training and anti terrorism instructions at least once a quarter - all of them get together and run training exorcises and study and practice best hiding places for students; best modes of exit, etc)

I could easily see a state like Alabama or Louisiana piloting and testing a system like this & I also think it would work - IE reduce the number of shootings/incidents; because the knowledge of the added security would serve as a deterrent - would make schools less of a soft target

many schools already have ex military on staff that could already participate

what do y'all think of that?

I do not totally oppose having trained teachers who are permitted to carry concealed. I do not want open carry in schools

Raises a lot of issues on level of training, ability to handle an active shooter situation and expectation of the ability of a teacher to confront a gunman with an AR-15 using only a handgun

It works in the movies where the good guy always gets the bad guy despite overwhelming odds. In real life, an innocent student could get killed or the teacher could be confused with the gunman when the police arrive

There is no training for someone shooting at you. It is pretty simple though for most people with any sense. If the shooting starts, take cover, or shoot back or a combination there of. In the current situation made possible by the government who protects us all, it plays out like this: The shooting starts, lots of people die.

Police go to weeks of training on how to engage a shooter and they still make mistakes
Much like police, an untrained teacher would be jumping at shadows and firing at anything that looks like a threat

An armed teacher could kill a shooter.....but there are also risks

There's always risks. And the cops train for weeks with NO ONE shooting at them. There is no training on how to be shot at. LOL jumping at shadows. If the shadow has a gun shoot it. But lets face it all you RL's want is a gun ban, and that will not stop shootings.

Again...it is easier said than done

An untrained teacher in a high stress situation would be quick to fire and make mistakes. The best we can say is an armed teacher is better than nothing

 

[Taz]

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

That number is also largely propaganda, and has little to do with the actual school shootings we are discussing. When the list was published after the Kentucky school shooting, it included so bogus additions to the list. At least 2 of them were suicides by students. The fact that they used a gun was incidental. They would have done it anyway. One of the "school shootings" on that list is a pellet gun shooting of a school bus window. And one of the "school shootings" was a 30something year old man who committed suicide in the parking lot of an empty school. But the fact that he used a gun in an empty school parking lot makes it the same as some lunatic killing 12 or 17 kids? No. This kind of smear propaganda does no one any good.

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

If you can't protect the children of your country, you live in a bankrupt state. What will be good for the children will also be good for everyone else.

 

[rightwinger]

School teachers should not be a Quick Reaction Force. If an Instructor is CW, s/he should secure his/her classroom and hunker down.

The money needs to be in 'hardening' the entry points to as school and adding an extra SRO to each school.

Agree...it all comes down to expectations

We would not expect a lone policeman to engage a shooter armed with an AR-15. They have learned how to handle shooters and rushing in, guns ablazing is not the way it is done

If we have armed teachers, we should prepare for the result where an armed teacher does absolutely nothing

 

[miketx]

My wife is a public school teacher - 21 years in

one of her co-workers is retired military, Air Force Major

my thought - EVERY public school should have one ex military officer for every 100 - 150 kids enrolled

these teachers would be specially licensed to carry a firearm at the school

this would be in addition to the SRO (School Resource Officer) & would provide backup and added protection; the SRO would be the "point man" and be "in charge" in an emergency situation

so - a school with 500 students would have an SRO (real police officer) and FIVE trained and armed teachers for protection and emergency situations - for a total of 6 people trained and armed to secure the school

these ex military teachers (could also be retired police, or similar field) would receive an additional $5,000 - $10,000 per year for their added responsibility (that works out to $250 - $500 a month in pay - seems fair) and would be responsible to attend training and anti terrorism instructions at least once a quarter - all of them get together and run training exorcises and study and practice best hiding places for students; best modes of exit, etc)

I could easily see a state like Alabama or Louisiana piloting and testing a system like this & I also think it would work - IE reduce the number of shootings/incidents; because the knowledge of the added security would serve as a deterrent - would make schools less of a soft target

many schools already have ex military on staff that could already participate

what do y'all think of that?

I do not totally oppose having trained teachers who are permitted to carry concealed. I do not want open carry in schools

Raises a lot of issues on level of training, ability to handle an active shooter situation and expectation of the ability of a teacher to confront a gunman with an AR-15 using only a handgun

It works in the movies where the good guy always gets the bad guy despite overwhelming odds. In real life, an innocent student could get killed or the teacher could be confused with the gunman when the police arrive

There is no training for someone shooting at you. It is pretty simple though for most people with any sense. If the shooting starts, take cover, or shoot back or a combination there of. In the current situation made possible by the government who protects us all, it plays out like this: The shooting starts, lots of people die.

Police go to weeks of training on how to engage a shooter and they still make mistakes
Much like police, an untrained teacher would be jumping at shadows and firing at anything that looks like a threat
An armed teacher could kill a shooter.....but there are also risks

There's always risks. And the cops train for weeks with NO ONE shooting at them. There is no training on how to be shot at. LOL jumping at shadows. If the shadow has a gun shoot it. But lets face it all you RL's want is a gun ban, and that will not stop shootings.

Again...it is easier said than done

An untrained teacher in a high stress situation would be quick to fire and make mistakes. The best we can say is an armed teacher is better than nothing

First couple of shooters getting their sorry ass killed by a teacher will be a great deterrent. And people carrying guns already are aware of what a situation like that can be like. There is no other thing that can be done that killing these sick bastards first won't solve. I've privately spoke to people at my old job that have killed people who deserved and they say it's like stepping on a bug.