CDZ A thought on armed teachers - how we could make it work

[Correll]

A lone policeman, armed with his service revolver is probably not going to engage a shooter. He is outgunned at that point. Normally they would call for backup

A single teacher, armed with a handgun, with little training is ill-equipped to do battle with an active shooter
If the opportunity arises, where he could get off a shot undetected, he may kill the shooter. But going head to head against an AR-15 is not adviseable

Mass shooters have been stopped by lone cops with their carry guns and/or single armed teachers.


There are people walking around today, lots of them, because mass shooters were stopped by such people way before "back up" would have arrived.

I didn't say it can't happen
But the expectation of untrained hero teachers is overrated

In the movies, the good guy always wins. In real life, mistakes are made....even by highly trained police officers

It sounded like you were saying that it never happened.

Maybe your belief that carry supporters are overrating the odds of a civilian stopping a shooter is a miscommunication on your part.

 

[miketx]

That number is also largely propaganda, and has little to do with the actual school shootings we are discussing. When the list was published after the Kentucky school shooting, it included so bogus additions to the list. At least 2 of them were suicides by students. The fact that they used a gun was incidental. They would have done it anyway. One of the "school shootings" on that list is a pellet gun shooting of a school bus window. And one of the "school shootings" was a 30something year old man who committed suicide in the parking lot of an empty school. But the fact that he used a gun in an empty school parking lot makes it the same as some lunatic killing 12 or 17 kids? No. This kind of smear propaganda does no one any good.

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

If you can't protect the children of your country, you live in a bankrupt state. What will be good for the children will also be good for everyone else.

You won't let the "children" be protected. You guys fight tooth and nail to keep schools gun free zones where body counts are guaranteed.

 

[Correll]

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

If you can't protect the children of your country, you live in a bankrupt state. What will be good for the children will also be good for everyone else.

You won't let the "children" be protected. You guys fight tooth and nail to keep schools gun free zones where body counts are guaranteed.

AND to NOT lock up dangerously crazy people.

 

[Taz]

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

If you can't protect the children of your country, you live in a bankrupt state. What will be good for the children will also be good for everyone else.

You won't let the "children" be protected. You guys fight tooth and nail to keep schools gun free zones where body counts are guaranteed.

..."shall not be infringed"... Putting an age limit is an infringement.

 

[OldLady]

School teachers should not be a Quick Reaction Force. If an Instructor is CW, s/he should secure his/her classroom and hunker down.

The money needs to be in 'hardening' the entry points to as school and adding an extra SRO to each school.

Agree...it all comes down to expectations

We would not expect a lone policeman to engage a shooter armed with an AR-15. They have learned how to handle shooters and rushing in, guns ablazing is not the way it is done

If we have armed teachers, we should prepare for the result where an armed teacher does absolutely nothing

I wonder how much help it would be to have armed teachers (a few of our schools have a teacher with a gun locked away) if the gunman didn't happen to start in her classroom.

 

[rightwinger]

A lone policeman, armed with his service revolver is probably not going to engage a shooter. He is outgunned at that point. Normally they would call for backup

A single teacher, armed with a handgun, with little training is ill-equipped to do battle with an active shooter
If the opportunity arises, where he could get off a shot undetected, he may kill the shooter. But going head to head against an AR-15 is not adviseable

Mass shooters have been stopped by lone cops with their carry guns and/or single armed teachers.


There are people walking around today, lots of them, because mass shooters were stopped by such people way before "back up" would have arrived.

I didn't say it can't happen
But the expectation of untrained hero teachers is overrated

In the movies, the good guy always wins. In real life, mistakes are made....even by highly trained police officers

It sounded like you were saying that it never happened.

Maybe your belief that carry supporters are overrating the odds of a civilian stopping a shooter is a miscommunication on your part.

I support having armed teachers who would be trained on how to handle an active shooter situation
Better than nothing

I just think we need to be aware of what we are getting. Teachers would have to have strict rules of engagement. If multiple teachers are armed, friendly fire is a possibility. I don't think we should expect teachers to be heroes in these situations. They are there to teach and not risk their lives

 

[rightwinger]

School teachers should not be a Quick Reaction Force. If an Instructor is CW, s/he should secure his/her classroom and hunker down.

The money needs to be in 'hardening' the entry points to as school and adding an extra SRO to each school.

Agree...it all comes down to expectations

We would not expect a lone policeman to engage a shooter armed with an AR-15. They have learned how to handle shooters and rushing in, guns ablazing is not the way it is done

If we have armed teachers, we should prepare for the result where an armed teacher does absolutely nothing

I wonder how much help it would be to have armed teachers (a few of our schools have a teacher with a gun locked away) if the gunman didn't happen to start in her classroom.

Some of these schools have had armed security guards where the guard did absolutely nothing

 

[miketx]

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

If you can't protect the children of your country, you live in a bankrupt state. What will be good for the children will also be good for everyone else.

You won't let the "children" be protected. You guys fight tooth and nail to keep schools gun free zones where body counts are guaranteed.

..."shall not be infringed"... Putting an age limit is an infringement.

Isn't that a "sensible restriction"? You RL's always talk about sensible gun laws, imirite?

 

[Taz]

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

If you can't protect the children of your country, you live in a bankrupt state. What will be good for the children will also be good for everyone else.

You won't let the "children" be protected. You guys fight tooth and nail to keep schools gun free zones where body counts are guaranteed.

..."shall not be infringed"... Putting an age limit is an infringement.

Isn't that a "sensible restriction"? You RL's always talk about sensible gun laws, imirite?

Never said that, I said let's arm the children, they have that right. Are you with me or against the 2nd Amendment?

 

[WinterBorn]

That number is also largely propaganda, and has little to do with the actual school shootings we are discussing. When the list was published after the Kentucky school shooting, it included so bogus additions to the list. At least 2 of them were suicides by students. The fact that they used a gun was incidental. They would have done it anyway. One of the "school shootings" on that list is a pellet gun shooting of a school bus window. And one of the "school shootings" was a 30something year old man who committed suicide in the parking lot of an empty school. But the fact that he used a gun in an empty school parking lot makes it the same as some lunatic killing 12 or 17 kids? No. This kind of smear propaganda does no one any good.

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

If you can't protect the children of your country, you live in a bankrupt state. What will be good for the children will also be good for everyone else.

The point of this thread is arming teachers or other school staff against mass shootings.

How will that help anyone but the people at the school? I am not opposed to gun ownership. I own a number of firearms myself.

Also, we haven't protected our children in decades. The infant mortality rate in the US is pitiful. A child born in Poland, Slovakia or Cuba is more likely to live to see its first birthday than a child born in the US. And we spend far more on healthcare. Are we already a bankrupt state?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Every teacher needs to take a gun course, and wear their guns in the classrooms and at all times while on campus. 30 teacher's shooting back at you would be a deterrent, and could save countless lives.
One door in, one door out, with a guard.
Not a student, then no entry.
Parents volunteer as hall and campus monitors.
Parents, monitor your children, and be aware of their social media.
Raise your children to respect their own life and the lives of others.

 

[Taz]

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

If you can't protect the children of your country, you live in a bankrupt state. What will be good for the children will also be good for everyone else.

The point of this thread is arming teachers or other school staff against mass shootings.

How will that help anyone but the people at the school? I am not opposed to gun ownership. I own a number of firearms myself.

Also, we haven't protected our children in decades. The infant mortality rate in the US is pitiful. A child born in Poland, Slovakia or Cuba is more likely to live to see its first birthday than a child born in the US. And we spend far more on healthcare. Are we already a bankrupt state?

Completely bankrupt. Especially morally.

 

[OldLady]

Every teacher needs to take a gun course, and wear their guns in the classrooms and at all times while on campus. 30 teacher's shooting back at you would be a deterrent, and could save countless lives.
One door in, one door out, with a guard.
Not a student, then no entry.
Parents volunteer as hall and campus monitors.
Parents, monitor your children, and be aware of their social media.
Raise your children to respect their own life and the lives of others.

Your last two sentences make absolute sense, the heart of the matter. Then the rest wouldn't matter.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

My wife is a public school teacher - 21 years in

one of her co-workers is retired military, Air Force Major

my thought - EVERY public school should have one ex military officer for every 100 - 150 kids enrolled

these teachers would be specially licensed to carry a firearm at the school

this would be in addition to the SRO (School Resource Officer) & would provide backup and added protection; the SRO would be the "point man" and be "in charge" in an emergency situation

so - a school with 500 students would have an SRO (real police officer) and FIVE trained and armed teachers for protection and emergency situations - for a total of 6 people trained and armed to secure the school

these ex military teachers (could also be retired police, or similar field) would receive an additional $5,000 - $10,000 per year for their added responsibility (that works out to $250 - $500 a month in pay - seems fair) and would be responsible to attend training and anti terrorism instructions at least once a quarter - all of them get together and run training exorcises and study and practice best hiding places for students; best modes of exit, etc)

I could easily see a state like Alabama or Louisiana piloting and testing a system like this & I also think it would work - IE reduce the number of shootings/incidents; because the knowledge of the added security would serve as a deterrent - would make schools less of a soft target

many schools already have ex military on staff that could already participate

what do y'all think of that?

One does not have to be ex-military or a former policeman to be competent to handle a firearm. All is needed is a little training for those that need it. But this and of itself is not going to solve the problem.............a three pronged approach is needed..........1. Force Schools to deal with bullies.......a major source of motivation for school shooters....they have been or are being bullied and the school does not deal with it. 2. Make sure mentally ill people cannot legally obtain weapons. 3. Arm the teachers and school administrators.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

Liberals consistently fail in regards to just about all of our social problems. They are part of the problem as in they help create more confusion which prevents a rational approach to the problem of violence in our schools. Look at all the liberals in hollywood who glorify and promote violence. Instead of zeroing in on gun control they should zero in on what actually motivates these shooters. Hollywood is a big part of the problem as well as the media....in a weeks time all the hoopla will be over and these troubled kids will see once again that no one is dealing or even attempting to find out what is really wrong such as the bullying they have to endure and which is the biggest factor in the majority of these incidents.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

So when teachers have to spend money out of their own pocket at virtually EVERY school, so the kids will have what they need, the answer is "No!". But when it comes to spending lots of money to arm teachers for a relatively rare occurrance, somehow the money is there?

Will these retired military "teachers" be able to teach? People spend years learning to do it, and the test scores are still slipping. People with no experience will be able to do the job?

That's why regular teachers should have a gun and CCW allowance.

Arming teachers would not be very expensive...for those who want simple answers this is one that is very simple and could be implemented relatively easily and at low cost.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

So when teachers have to spend money out of their own pocket at virtually EVERY school, so the kids will have what they need, the answer is "No!". But when it comes to spending lots of money to arm teachers for a relatively rare occurrance, somehow the money is there?

Will these retired military "teachers" be able to teach? People spend years learning to do it, and the test scores are still slipping. People with no experience will be able to do the job?

That's why regular teachers should have a gun and CCW allowance.

Armed teachers should not be required to conceal their weapons ...they should be in plain view so that any potential shooter would understand that his violence would be met with immediate force.

 

[rightwinger]

My wife is a public school teacher - 21 years in

one of her co-workers is retired military, Air Force Major

my thought - EVERY public school should have one ex military officer for every 100 - 150 kids enrolled

these teachers would be specially licensed to carry a firearm at the school

this would be in addition to the SRO (School Resource Officer) & would provide backup and added protection; the SRO would be the "point man" and be "in charge" in an emergency situation

so - a school with 500 students would have an SRO (real police officer) and FIVE trained and armed teachers for protection and emergency situations - for a total of 6 people trained and armed to secure the school

these ex military teachers (could also be retired police, or similar field) would receive an additional $5,000 - $10,000 per year for their added responsibility (that works out to $250 - $500 a month in pay - seems fair) and would be responsible to attend training and anti terrorism instructions at least once a quarter - all of them get together and run training exorcises and study and practice best hiding places for students; best modes of exit, etc)

I could easily see a state like Alabama or Louisiana piloting and testing a system like this & I also think it would work - IE reduce the number of shootings/incidents; because the knowledge of the added security would serve as a deterrent - would make schools less of a soft target

many schools already have ex military on staff that could already participate

what do y'all think of that?

One does not have to be ex-military or a former policeman to be competent to handle a firearm. All is needed is a little training for those that need it. But this and of itself is not going to solve the problem.............a three pronged approach is needed..........1. Force Schools to deal with bullies.......a major source of motivation for school shooters....they have been or are being bullied and the school does not deal with it. 2. Make sure mentally ill people cannot legally obtain weapons. 3. Arm the teachers and school administrators.

I disagree on a "little" training for armed teachers
Dealing with an active shooter is a difficult situation. Many cops can't handle it
There needs to be serious training and strict rules of engagement before we allow armed teachers

 

[rightwinger]

So when teachers have to spend money out of their own pocket at virtually EVERY school, so the kids will have what they need, the answer is "No!". But when it comes to spending lots of money to arm teachers for a relatively rare occurrance, somehow the money is there?

Will these retired military "teachers" be able to teach? People spend years learning to do it, and the test scores are still slipping. People with no experience will be able to do the job?

That's why regular teachers should have a gun and CCW allowance.

Armed teachers should not be required to conceal their weapons ...they should be in plain view so that any potential shooter would understand that his violence would be met with immediate force.

We don't need teachers flaunting their weapons in school

Makes dealings with students awkward

 

[miketx]

My wife is a public school teacher - 21 years in

one of her co-workers is retired military, Air Force Major

my thought - EVERY public school should have one ex military officer for every 100 - 150 kids enrolled

these teachers would be specially licensed to carry a firearm at the school

this would be in addition to the SRO (School Resource Officer) & would provide backup and added protection; the SRO would be the "point man" and be "in charge" in an emergency situation

so - a school with 500 students would have an SRO (real police officer) and FIVE trained and armed teachers for protection and emergency situations - for a total of 6 people trained and armed to secure the school

these ex military teachers (could also be retired police, or similar field) would receive an additional $5,000 - $10,000 per year for their added responsibility (that works out to $250 - $500 a month in pay - seems fair) and would be responsible to attend training and anti terrorism instructions at least once a quarter - all of them get together and run training exorcises and study and practice best hiding places for students; best modes of exit, etc)

I could easily see a state like Alabama or Louisiana piloting and testing a system like this & I also think it would work - IE reduce the number of shootings/incidents; because the knowledge of the added security would serve as a deterrent - would make schools less of a soft target

many schools already have ex military on staff that could already participate

what do y'all think of that?

One does not have to be ex-military or a former policeman to be competent to handle a firearm. All is needed is a little training for those that need it. But this and of itself is not going to solve the problem.............a three pronged approach is needed..........1. Force Schools to deal with bullies.......a major source of motivation for school shooters....they have been or are being bullied and the school does not deal with it. 2. Make sure mentally ill people cannot legally obtain weapons. 3. Arm the teachers and school administrators.

I disagree on a "little" training for armed teachers
Dealing with an active shooter is a difficult situation. Many cops can't handle it
There needs to be serious training and strict rules of engagement before we allow armed teachers

No matter how many times you are told that you cannot be trained for being shot at you keep repeating the same ignorant bullshit. Why is that? You don't want to keep killers out of schools do you? All you can do is try to keep your wits about you and shoot back. If someone has a gun in a school and is killing people or trying to, that should enough for even the most simple minded fool to know they are the threat and to shoot them.