A Thought Experiment

[Ravi]

Tough one.

What if the child was Hitler?

Or xsited1?

That would certainly change my answer.

 

[Father Time]

This thought experiment conjures up images of people performing human sacrifices to appease some volcano God.

 

[Fatality]

This thought experiment conjures up images of people performing human sacrifices to appease some volcano God.

yeah human sacrifice to the commie death cult to the tune of 50 million dead Americans to satiate their lust for blood.

 

[Rubber Hoser]

Does the kid in the closet have fast internet so he can dl porn? And does he have pillows? A fan? Flatscreen TV? Cuz then he'd be all set! A closet is just a very small room, it's what you make of it.

Oh, btw, as long as I'm happy, the kid can stay in the closet. Wtf do I care about someone else's kid?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

the child in the closet represents 50 million abortions so liberals can feel good about themselves

Right to the point,I dont know if they feel good or just aren't think they wont be inconvenienced , You never no what is on the other side of that decision .

 

[G.T.]

What if you can rationalize both answers:

The boy, in essence, is "suffering" as they say Jesus did, for the good of mankind (or this little village). But I'm guessing that's besides the point.

If there was a world where 1 man suffers and all-else strives, is that not better than,,,,say, a world where it's 50/50? 60/40? 70/30?

Think if you let him go, and you've now created 1,000's of persons' suffering as a result. Was that the right answer?

I can also see why it's so very wrong. There is no right answer here.

 

[Rubber Hoser]

Fat-ality thanked fitnah. The muslims stick together. What are you guys plotting to blow up next?

 

[Fatality]

Fat-ality thanked fitnah. The muslims stick together. What are you guys plotting to blow up next?

what does fitnah mean?

heres a clue shit head

http://www.geocities.com/ibniblis/fitnah.html

 

[xsited1]

You don't need companies to pay people more or give them more time off. You just need to make the time. Usually, the busiest people volunteer the most. They just make it a priority.

There will always be kids that fall through the cracks. You are searching for perfection and that cannot be achieved by human beings. It most certainly cannot be achieved by any government entity.

Oh, xsited, you're such an entrepreneur-worshipper. You're like my brother, in a way, who thinks successful people are somehow better than everyone else in some mysterious way: those busy people are just darn good people - I mean, anyone who works 40 hours, volunteers weekends, works on the house during the evening, helps the spouse clean up after dinner, runs errands, changes the oil in the car, gets to the bank before they close, goes grocery shopping, and somehow has time to spend raising their own children, is just a good person and should be a foster parent too. Hard work WILL achieve everything!

I don't imagine we can achieve perfection, but I think the non-profits don't have the resources to do what they do and take over what the government does as well. What's with you conservatives? You love the police and national security who enforce the laws in threatening and frequently violent ways; but hate those government services designed to help people like social services, medicare, welfare, medicaid, social security (though I can agree on that one since I ain't gonna see any of it when I'm 65), etc. Do you really believe that people give enough in charity to take care of all those less fortunate than ourselves? Do you just hate paying taxes unless you are going to directly benefit from paying those taxes? Sounds like greed to me.

Where did I say anyone was better than anyone else? Those are your words, not mine. First you call me a conservative and now this. You even say that I believe that 'hard work will achieve everything'. You're obviously more into projecting who you think I am than debating this issue. Why is that?

 

[Father Time]

This thought experiment conjures up images of people performing human sacrifices to appease some volcano God.

yeah human sacrifice to the commie death cult to the tune of 50 million dead Americans to satiate their lust for blood.

Fixed it for you

 

[Avatar4321]

I dont see how its possible to be happy and make a child suffer without doing something allerviate this. May as well speculate what a feathered mammal or a circular square would look like.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Some of you may have read "Those Who Walk Away From Omelas" by Ursula K. LeGuin, and understand the point she was making.

I want to use her story here to see how those of us on USMB respond to it, and perhaps get an idea why.

If you wish to read the whole short story, visit this site: http://harelbarzilai.org/words/omelas.txt

Here it is in paraphrased summary:

The citizens of the town of Omelas are happy. The fields are fruitful, they're economy productive, and each citizen lives with plenty. They work hard and everyone is responsible only for themselves which works well as everyone has what they need. Life is beautiful for each and every person, but...

The only reason why everything is going so well is because in the cellar of one of the large houses in the town of Omelas is a small storage closet and in this closet is a child. (I know there isn't any logic to that but this is just a thought experiement). The child is kept in the dark, uncomfortable closet, fed enough to survive, is somewhat mistreated, but for the most part ignored and neglected. Everyone in town is aware of the child and its suffering.

So as long as this child is kept in that room the citizens of Omelas live plentiful, productive, happy lives. But, each day one or a few of the citizens of Omelas leave never to return. Now why would that be? Why would they wish to leave what practically equates to a paradise or utopia?

If the vast majority of people in the town live long, peaceful lives without strife or lack of necessity just because one child suffers, isn't it worth it? If all the other children grow up healthy, strong, moral, educated, and happy, doesn't that outweigh the suffering of only one child?

If so, why do you think so?

If not, why do you believe that?

There are two conclusions that can be reached by how one responds to this story. The obvious one has to do with what one perceives as morally right or good, and the other I will reveal later.

Please respond with your opinions.

So if I feed the child i destroy everyone's good life and make everyone's life suck

If I dont feed the child i'm a total douchebag who has no moral compass.


I choose to leave town.

PEACE

 

[iagainsti]

If the vast majority of people in the town live long, peaceful lives without strife or lack of necessity just because one child suffers, isn't it worth it? If all the other children grow up healthy, strong, moral, educated, and happy, doesn't that outweigh the suffering of only one child?

If so, why do you think so?

If not, why do you believe that?

I say not...because can you truly be happy when you've seen that the price of your happiness is something like that?

It says in the story that their knowledge of the child suffering makes them appreciate their happiness more, and that was the one stumbling block for me. In my opinion, there's no way to rationalize the situation by saying that only one is suffering in order for many to benefit, but the fact that they keep the child in mind and use the knowledge to fully appreciate those benefits does give the "it's worth it" argument a little more credibility.

However, I think the truly moral ones in the story are the ones who walk away...they don't continue on living in prosperity despite their knowledge of the child's suffering, and they don't risk destroying the happiness of others by freeing the child (who, it can be rationalized, is probably already too damaged to appreciate freedom anyway).

So as long as this child is kept in that room the citizens of Omelas live plentiful, productive, happy lives. But, each day one or a few of the citizens of Omelas leave never to return. Now why would that be? Why would they wish to leave what practically equates to a paradise or utopia?

I think they leave to find their own kind of happiness, one that doesn't have to be based on someone else's suffering.

And I think this is a really great idea for a thread! I read this story in high school and really liked it.

 

[iagainsti]

This thought experiment conjures up images of people performing human sacrifices to appease some volcano God.

yeah human sacrifice to the commie death cult to the tune of 50 million dead Americans to satiate their lust for blood.

Fixed it for you

 

[PeterS]

Some of you may have read "Those Who Walk Away From Omelas" by Ursula K. LeGuin, and understand the point she was making.

I want to use her story here to see how those of us on USMB respond to it, and perhaps get an idea why.

If you wish to read the whole short story, visit this site: http://harelbarzilai.org/words/omelas.txt

Here it is in paraphrased summary:

The citizens of the town of Omelas are happy. The fields are fruitful, they're economy productive, and each citizen lives with plenty. They work hard and everyone is responsible only for themselves which works well as everyone has what they need. Life is beautiful for each and every person, but...

The only reason why everything is going so well is because in the cellar of one of the large houses in the town of Omelas is a small storage closet and in this closet is a child. (I know there isn't any logic to that but this is just a thought experiement). The child is kept in the dark, uncomfortable closet, fed enough to survive, is somewhat mistreated, but for the most part ignored and neglected. Everyone in town is aware of the child and its suffering.

So as long as this child is kept in that room the citizens of Omelas live plentiful, productive, happy lives. But, each day one or a few of the citizens of Omelas leave never to return. Now why would that be? Why would they wish to leave what practically equates to a paradise or utopia?

If the vast majority of people in the town live long, peaceful lives without strife or lack of necessity just because one child suffers, isn't it worth it? If all the other children grow up healthy, strong, moral, educated, and happy, doesn't that outweigh the suffering of only one child?

If so, why do you think so?

If not, why do you believe that?

There are two conclusions that can be reached by how one responds to this story. The obvious one has to do with what one perceives as morally right or good, and the other I will reveal later.

Please respond with your opinions.

In a free society each individual is their own sovereign. To restrict the rights of one is to restrict the rights of all. The morality of the action would be determined by whether the society was free or not...

 

[PeterS]

the child in the closet represents 50 million abortions so liberals can feel good about themselves

Actually the child represents your ignorance. The argument you are making is to keep the child in the closet. Suppose I am in kidney failure and you are a perfect match. Does my right to life give me a right to one of your kidneys or does your individual sovereignty give you freedom of choice that supersedes my respective rights? The argument that you are making is that we are not our own sovereigns; that is, my individual rights supersede yours. That being the case, why, for common good, shouldn't the child remain in the closet? Wouldn't it be immoral to let the child out and all of society suffer?

 

[Fatality]

the child in the closet represents 50 million abortions so liberals can feel good about themselves

Actually the child represents your ignorance. The argument you are making is to keep the child in the closet. Suppose I am in kidney failure and you are a perfect match. Does my right to life give me a right to one of your kidneys or does your individual sovereignty give you freedom of choice that supersedes my respective rights? The argument that you are making is that we are not our own sovereigns; that is, my individual rights supersede yours. That being the case, why, for common good, shouldn't the child remain in the closet? Wouldn't it be immoral to let the child out and all of society suffer?

shut the fuck up you idiot, the kid is your dirty little secret, its your imorality, its your shame

i would let the kid out and teach him to wage war on your ass for oppressing him

50 million dead to make fuckers like you feel good

 

[Rubber Hoser]

50 million dead to make fuckers like you feel good

So fat-ality, how would you force everyone to carry out their pregnancy? Big birthing prisons? Then a huge government run adoption service? Then a massive orphanage for all the kids that don't find homes, are too ugly or deformed...
And anyways, what do you care what other people do? As well, the world is over-polpulated as it is, do we really need your 50 million more? (and no, for all you simpletons, I don't advocate mass killing to solve the problem, as I'm sure some of you are dying to reply).

 

[editec]

If but only life were that simple.

Of course our current system insures that some children must live in the slums so that others can go to Choate.

This isn't iobvious to all of us?

Apparently not.

 

[iagainsti]

the child in the closet represents 50 million abortions so liberals can feel good about themselves

Actually the child represents your ignorance. The argument you are making is to keep the child in the closet. Suppose I am in kidney failure and you are a perfect match. Does my right to life give me a right to one of your kidneys or does your individual sovereignty give you freedom of choice that supersedes my respective rights? The argument that you are making is that we are not our own sovereigns; that is, my individual rights supersede yours. That being the case, why, for common good, shouldn't the child remain in the closet? Wouldn't it be immoral to let the child out and all of society suffer?

shut the fuck up you idiot, the kid is your dirty little secret, its your imorality, its your shame

i would let the kid out and teach him to wage war on your ass for oppressing him

50 million dead to make fuckers like you feel good

I thought he made a fairly good point there...did you actually read anything he said, or are you just gonna keep spitting out the same thing over and over no matter what else is said? That always makes for great conversation.

And since when does abortion make liberals feel good? I wasn't aware that all over the country, millions of liberals wake up early every morning to take their dogs for a walk down to the local Planned Parenthood and say, "Ahhhh...I love the sound of abortions in the morning!" What's the point of dragging the abortion issue into this at all? Do you HAVE a point?