A Reasonable Solution To The Gay Marriage Debate

[WinterBorn]

Winterborn, I did not make any arguments based on religion. Please re-read my original post and all of my comments for arguments that do not involve religion.

As for your second question, here is the answer:

"When you celebrate and embrace something that is abnormal and unhealthy, reason and common sense are turned on their heads. As a result, our popular culture has lost the ability to distinguish between, good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, healthy and unhealthy, constructive and destructive, considerate and rude, brave and cowardly, modest and lewd, vulgar and polite, acceptable and unacceptable, respectful and contemptuous, virtuous and shameful, tolerant and intolerant, open-minded and narrow-minded truth and deception, etc."

In today's popular culture, which rejects many social and spiritual restraints, I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance, gratitude and faith in God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking and self esteem.

IMHO, there can be no other possible outcome than our society and culture becoming more corrupt, greedy, lawless, poor, ignorant, powerless, and ultimately more restrained by our fears and/or our government. This is clearly witnessed by the current increase in crime, prisons, corruption, illiteracy, poverty, drug use, intolerance and governmental control in today's America.

Okay, you lost me immediately. "When you celebrate and embrace something that is unnatural and unhealthy."

No.

If you think being gay is a choice, I want to know how much of a chance you gave it before you decided you were straight.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVwjCppq82c]Are we born straight or gay? - Making of Me: John Barrowman - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

Gay is a choice PERIOD!!!! It is learned behavior and a mental deficiency.

Scientists have not determined this as a fact. Nice of you to save us all that research and stuff by just proclaiming it a choice.

I don't suppose you have any facts to back this up??

 

[AmericanFirst]

As a conservative, I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. Supporting gay marriage only proves the left is anti Christian.

lol A classic example of conservative ‘logic.’

The kids on the right must be overjoyed to have you on their team.

I hope they are, better than being on the idiot left.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Okay, you lost me immediately. "When you celebrate and embrace something that is unnatural and unhealthy."

No.

If you think being gay is a choice, I want to know how much of a chance you gave it before you decided you were straight.

Are we born straight or gay? - Making of Me: John Barrowman - BBC - YouTube

Gay is a choice PERIOD!!!! It is learned behavior and a mental deficiency.

Scientists have not determined this as a fact. Nice of you to save us all that research and stuff by just proclaiming it a choice.

I don't suppose you have any facts to back this up??

Scientists are not always right.

 

[WinterBorn]

I don't believe in any standards for "groups" in America. We are all individuals. Our constitution does not address groups, only individuals. We are all entitled to equal justice under the law. People with homosexual desires are not excluded from getting married. Gay activists are demanding that we redefine marriage. The redefinition of marriage is not a right. Marriage is not even mentioned in the constitution.

Since you make the claim that the government deals with individuals and not groups, then to you disagree with the SCOTUS overturning Virginia's interracial Civil Marriage restrictions since under the law each individual still had the right to marry, just that they couldn't marry someone outside their race?


Under your "individual" only evaluation, the SCOTUS would have erred in barring laws based on group classifications such as race.



>>>

You can not equate the choice of gay with race.

No one equated homosexuality with race. But they did equate the SCOTUS rulings based on group classifications in a race related case with group classifications in the case of gay marriage.

What they are equating is the group classifications, not race and homosexuality.

 

[WinterBorn]

Gay is a choice PERIOD!!!! It is learned behavior and a mental deficiency.

Scientists have not determined this as a fact. Nice of you to save us all that research and stuff by just proclaiming it a choice.

I don't suppose you have any facts to back this up??

Scientists are not always right.

But you are?

So share the facts you have that back up your claim?

 

[WorldWatcher]

I don't believe in any standards for "groups" in America. We are all individuals. Our constitution does not address groups, only individuals. We are all entitled to equal justice under the law. People with homosexual desires are not excluded from getting married. Gay activists are demanding that we redefine marriage. The redefinition of marriage is not a right. Marriage is not even mentioned in the constitution.

Since you make the claim that the government deals with individuals and not groups, then to you disagree with the SCOTUS overturning Virginia's interracial Civil Marriage restrictions since under the law each individual still had the right to marry, just that they couldn't marry someone outside their race?


Under your "individual" only evaluation, the SCOTUS would have erred in barring laws based on group classifications such as race.



>>>

You can not equate the choice of gay with race.

Civil Marriage isn't denied to same sex couples based on sexual orientation, it's denied based on gender. Last I checked gender was a biological condition just like race.


>>>>

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Since you make the claim that the government deals with individuals and not groups, then to you disagree with the SCOTUS overturning Virginia's interracial Civil Marriage restrictions since under the law each individual still had the right to marry, just that they couldn't marry someone outside their race?


Under your "individual" only evaluation, the SCOTUS would have erred in barring laws based on group classifications such as race.



>>>

You can not equate the choice of gay with race.

No one equated homosexuality with race. But they did equate the SCOTUS rulings based on group classifications in a race related case with group classifications in the case of gay marriage.

What they are equating is the group classifications, not race and homosexuality.

Correct:

We must conclude that Amendment 2 classifies homosexuals not to further a proper legislative end but to make them unequal to everyone else. This Colorado cannot do. A State cannot so deem a class of persons a stranger to its laws. Amendment 2 violates the Equal Protection Clause, and the judgment of the Supreme Court of Colorado is affirmed.

Romer, Governor of Colorado, et al. v. Evans et al., 517 U.S. 620 (1996).

Just as the amendment to Colorado’s constitution forbidding homosexuals access to anti-discrimination laws is un-Constitutional, so too is it a violation of the Equal Protection Clause to deny same-sex couples access to a state’s marriage laws.

 

[BDBoop]

Winterborn, I did not make any arguments based on religion. Please re-read my original post and all of my comments for arguments that do not involve religion.

As for your second question, here is the answer:

"When you celebrate and embrace something that is abnormal and unhealthy, reason and common sense are turned on their heads. As a result, our popular culture has lost the ability to distinguish between, good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, healthy and unhealthy, constructive and destructive, considerate and rude, brave and cowardly, modest and lewd, vulgar and polite, acceptable and unacceptable, respectful and contemptuous, virtuous and shameful, tolerant and intolerant, open-minded and narrow-minded truth and deception, etc."

In today's popular culture, which rejects many social and spiritual restraints, I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance, gratitude and faith in God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking and self esteem.

IMHO, there can be no other possible outcome than our society and culture becoming more corrupt, greedy, lawless, poor, ignorant, powerless, and ultimately more restrained by our fears and/or our government. This is clearly witnessed by the current increase in crime, prisons, corruption, illiteracy, poverty, drug use, intolerance and governmental control in today's America.

Okay, you lost me immediately. "When you celebrate and embrace something that is unnatural and unhealthy."

No.

If you think being gay is a choice, I want to know how much of a chance you gave it before you decided you were straight.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVwjCppq82c]Are we born straight or gay? - Making of Me: John Barrowman - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

Gay is a choice PERIOD!!!! It is learned behavior and a mental deficiency.

And you didn't watch the video, did you. The brain is hardwired BEFORE BIRTH.

I still want to know when and how you chose to be straight.

 

[BDBoop]

I don't believe in any standards for "groups" in America. We are all individuals. Our constitution does not address groups, only individuals. We are all entitled to equal justice under the law. People with homosexual desires are not excluded from getting married. Gay activists are demanding that we redefine marriage. The redefinition of marriage is not a right. Marriage is not even mentioned in the constitution.

Since you make the claim that the government deals with individuals and not groups, then to you disagree with the SCOTUS overturning Virginia's interracial Civil Marriage restrictions since under the law each individual still had the right to marry, just that they couldn't marry someone outside their race?


Under your "individual" only evaluation, the SCOTUS would have erred in barring laws based on group classifications such as race.



>>>

You can not equate the choice of gay with race.

I want to know all about your first gay experience, and what made you choose straight.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

And you didn't watch the video, did you.

Clearly not, that might expose him to facts.

 

[BDBoop]

And you didn't watch the video, did you.

Clearly not, that might expose him to facts.

Well, hell; what was I thinking!? We can't have THAT.

 

[MaryL]

This is issue is always interesting. Gay rights. Hmm. What is next.? Peeping tom rights. Pedophile rights. Bestiality rights. Spare me all the sarcastic replies. YES. Homosexuality is a perversion. It is a mental illness. I know, some "scientists" say Homosexuality ISN'T a mental dysfunction. That is so ironic, this same medical profession used to tout smoking as healthy. They used leeches to cure aliments. Men that perform oral or anal intercourse on each other are not a good example of healthy behavior by anyone. Don't accept this as normal. It is NOT. And gays all have the same rights as anyone else here on ANY other issue... Americans don't all want to sanction their brand of perversion as an alternative to folks that have healthy relationships that produce children. Narcissistic hedonism and confused sexuality doesn't add up to a viable lifestyle that deserves respect. There is no solution to this issue accept gays realize that they are sick and stop throwing temper tantrums. And, That won't happen as long as folks deny common sense and reason for fleeting sensibilities.

 

[WinterBorn]

This is issue is always interesting. Gay rights. Hmm. What is next.? Peeping tom rights. Pedophile rights. Bestiality rights. Spare me all the sarcastic replies. YES. Homosexuality is a perversion. It is a mental illness. I know, some "scientists" say Homosexuality ISN'T a mental dysfunction. That is so ironic, this same medical profession used to tout smoking as healthy. They used leeches to cure aliments. Men that perform oral or anal intercourse on each other are not a good example of healthy behavior by anyone. Don't accept this as normal. It is NOT. And gays all have the same rights as anyone else here on ANY other issue... Americans don't all want to sanction their brand of perversion as an alternative to folks that have healthy relationships that produce children. Narcissistic hedonism and confused sexuality doesn't add up to a viable lifestyle that deserves respect. There is no solution to this issue accept gays realize that they are sick and stop throwing temper tantrums. And, That won't happen as long as folks deny common sense and reason for fleeting sensibilities.

Some scientists? How about the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Associations? In other words, the largest organization of medical doctors and psychiatrists say homosexuality is not a mental illness.

And why is it so bad when men perform oral sex or have anal intercourse with each other, but we don't limit the benefits of straight couples who have oral sex or anal intercourse??

 

[syrenn]

Wow, Politics and national debates are not my business according to you. Your comment proves that liberals intend to stifle opposing views.

Did i say that it was none of your business? And since you are new here and know zero about me...why would you assume i am a liberal? Did i tell you to shut up and try and stifle you in any way?

You asked for a reasonable solution.... a reasonable solution is that you mind your business and let others mind theirs. I would not think that was so hard to understand. I used small words and not to many of them.... 4 to be exact.

Are you a liberal, conservative or something in between?

You asked for a reasonable solution.... i gave you one.

Does my being liberal or conservative or somewhere in between change that? You came out of the gate assuming anything other then your opinion of the way life should be ordered was on the opposite side of your fence, claiming my "view" was prof of liberals stifling opposing views.

Hypocrite much?

 

[BDBoop]

This is issue is always interesting. Gay rights. Hmm. What is next.? Peeping tom rights. Pedophile rights. Bestiality rights. Spare me all the sarcastic replies. YES. Homosexuality is a perversion. It is a mental illness. I know, some "scientists" say Homosexuality ISN'T a mental dysfunction. That is so ironic, this same medical profession used to tout smoking as healthy. They used leeches to cure aliments. Men that perform oral or anal intercourse on each other are not a good example of healthy behavior by anyone. Don't accept this as normal. It is NOT. And gays all have the same rights as anyone else here on ANY other issue... Americans don't all want to sanction their brand of perversion as an alternative to folks that have healthy relationships that produce children. Narcissistic hedonism and confused sexuality doesn't add up to a viable lifestyle that deserves respect. There is no solution to this issue accept gays realize that they are sick and stop throwing temper tantrums. And, That won't happen as long as folks deny common sense and reason for fleeting sensibilities.

Slippery slope fallacy, MaryL.

If homosexuality is a perversion, then why is there so much of it found in nature?

 

[MaryL]

This is issue is always interesting. Gay rights. Hmm. What is next.? Peeping tom rights. Pedophile rights. Bestiality rights. Spare me all the sarcastic replies. YES. Homosexuality is a perversion. It is a mental illness. I know, some "scientists" say Homosexuality ISN'T a mental dysfunction. That is so ironic, this same medical profession used to tout smoking as healthy. They used leeches to cure aliments. Men that perform oral or anal intercourse on each other are not a good example of healthy behavior by anyone. Don't accept this as normal. It is NOT. And gays all have the same rights as anyone else here on ANY other issue... Americans don't all want to sanction their brand of perversion as an alternative to folks that have healthy relationships that produce children. Narcissistic hedonism and confused sexuality doesn't add up to a viable lifestyle that deserves respect. There is no solution to this issue accept gays realize that they are sick and stop throwing temper tantrums. And, That won't happen as long as folks deny common sense and reason for fleeting sensibilities.

Slippery slope fallacy, MaryL.

If homosexuality is a perversion, then why is there so much of it found in nature?

Slippery slope fallacy. Accepting gays on par with heterosexuality is a slippery slope you don't seem to mind. That is a really slippery there. You seem to buy this sophisticated con job gays are espousing. Do YOU equate homosexuality with your parent's love? You think SO? I feel sorry for anyone that does. I don't mean any disrepect to you, but that is how I feel.

 

[BDBoop]

This is issue is always interesting. Gay rights. Hmm. What is next.? Peeping tom rights. Pedophile rights. Bestiality rights. Spare me all the sarcastic replies. YES. Homosexuality is a perversion. It is a mental illness. I know, some "scientists" say Homosexuality ISN'T a mental dysfunction. That is so ironic, this same medical profession used to tout smoking as healthy. They used leeches to cure aliments. Men that perform oral or anal intercourse on each other are not a good example of healthy behavior by anyone. Don't accept this as normal. It is NOT. And gays all have the same rights as anyone else here on ANY other issue... Americans don't all want to sanction their brand of perversion as an alternative to folks that have healthy relationships that produce children. Narcissistic hedonism and confused sexuality doesn't add up to a viable lifestyle that deserves respect. There is no solution to this issue accept gays realize that they are sick and stop throwing temper tantrums. And, That won't happen as long as folks deny common sense and reason for fleeting sensibilities.

Slippery slope fallacy, MaryL.

If homosexuality is a perversion, then why is there so much of it found in nature?

Slippery slope fallacy. Accepting gays on par with heterosexuality is a slippery slope you don't seem to mind. That is a really slippery there. You seem to buy this sophisticated con job gays are espousing. Do YOU equate homosexuality with your parent's love? You think SO? I feel sorry for anyone that does. I don't mean any disrepect to you, but that is how I feel.

My parents had a horrible relationship. It's kept me single most of my adult life.

My sister has been with her partner for going on 20 years. There is nothing sick about their relationship. In fact, they face all the same little bickering squabbles, highs and lows that most couples face.

 

[WinterBorn]

This is issue is always interesting. Gay rights. Hmm. What is next.? Peeping tom rights. Pedophile rights. Bestiality rights. Spare me all the sarcastic replies. YES. Homosexuality is a perversion. It is a mental illness. I know, some "scientists" say Homosexuality ISN'T a mental dysfunction. That is so ironic, this same medical profession used to tout smoking as healthy. They used leeches to cure aliments. Men that perform oral or anal intercourse on each other are not a good example of healthy behavior by anyone. Don't accept this as normal. It is NOT. And gays all have the same rights as anyone else here on ANY other issue... Americans don't all want to sanction their brand of perversion as an alternative to folks that have healthy relationships that produce children. Narcissistic hedonism and confused sexuality doesn't add up to a viable lifestyle that deserves respect. There is no solution to this issue accept gays realize that they are sick and stop throwing temper tantrums. And, That won't happen as long as folks deny common sense and reason for fleeting sensibilities.

Slippery slope fallacy, MaryL.

If homosexuality is a perversion, then why is there so much of it found in nature?

Slippery slope fallacy. Accepting gays on par with heterosexuality is a slippery slope you don't seem to mind. That is a really slippery there. You seem to buy this sophisticated con job gays are espousing. Do YOU equate homosexuality with your parent's love? You think SO? I feel sorry for anyone that does. I don't mean any disrepect to you, but that is how I feel.

Do you think homosexuals are incapable of love? Do you think you were created by your parent's love? News flash, you were created when your parents gave in to lust and got naked and sweaty.

You see that is just another of the anti-homosexuality crowd's ideas. That heterosexuals feel emotional love and base all on that, while gays base everything on sex. It is absolute and utter nonsense.

My ex-wife is a lesbian. My work requires travel. Our three children were raised as much by her and her partner as by me, and spent more time with them. And they turned out great. All three are in stable relationships. All three graduated from the honors programs in high school. All three got scholarships. Two graduated with a bachelors degree, and one has his master's degree in aerospace engineering.

So how were they harmed by being raised by lesbians?? Can you please tell me that? Out of three kids we have 3 college grads who never had any disciplinary issues and are great people. Is this what you are afraid of?

 

[MaryL]

Slippery slope fallacy, MaryL.

If homosexuality is a perversion, then why is there so much of it found in nature?

Slippery slope fallacy. Accepting gays on par with heterosexuality is a slippery slope you don't seem to mind. That is a really slippery there. You seem to buy this sophisticated con job gays are espousing. Do YOU equate homosexuality with your parent's love? You think SO? I feel sorry for anyone that does. I don't mean any disrepect to you, but that is how I feel.

My parents had a horrible relationship. It's kept me single most of my adult life.

My sister has been with her partner for going on 20 years. There is nothing sick about their relationship. In fact, they face all the same little bickering squabbles, highs and lows that most couples face.

I am sorry to hear that. I have had this debate late at night with relatives around the fireplace, about such and such this or that relative that is gay, that relative that is transsexual and so on. My parents were not saints. They fought. Gays love each other, I think. Nothing wrong with love. I don't see homosexuals on par with heterosexuals. I just can't do it. Hetrosexuals, our parents, they transend this debate in a way gays can't.

 

[BDBoop]

Slippery slope fallacy. Accepting gays on par with heterosexuality is a slippery slope you don't seem to mind. That is a really slippery there. You seem to buy this sophisticated con job gays are espousing. Do YOU equate homosexuality with your parent's love? You think SO? I feel sorry for anyone that does. I don't mean any disrepect to you, but that is how I feel.

My parents had a horrible relationship. It's kept me single most of my adult life.

My sister has been with her partner for going on 20 years. There is nothing sick about their relationship. In fact, they face all the same little bickering squabbles, highs and lows that most couples face.

I am sorry to hear that. I have had this debate with late at night with relatives around the fireplace, about such and such this or that relative that is gay, that relative that is transsexual and so on. My parents were not saints. They fought. Gays love each other, I think. Nothing wrong with love. I don't see homosexuals on par with heterosexuals. I just can't do it. Hetrosexuals, our parents, they transend this debate in a way gays can't.

No, they really don't. People are people, period. There is nothing to be gained by trying to label them as "less than."