A quote from Abe Lincoln over Rich vs Poor--very TRUE--what say you liberals.

[Bfgrn]

Honestly, the Far Left can be just as fundamentally flawed and biased to the point of contradicting their own premise.

Some examples I've posted in one msg or another, ad infinitum (or ad nauseum):
1. Being prochoice and against prolife legislation as govt intrusion, but then supporting
the health care mandates that violate free choice (especially imposing requirements the govt has not even met or else threatening penalties if these aren't met).
2. Being anti-war and demanding diplomatic solutions instead of demonizing terrorists; yet namecalling, demonizing and waging war on Republican/conservative adversaries for the same reasons -- lack of faith that peace can be made with opposing groups and ideologies.
3. Insisting that ALL gays are naturally born that way and NONE can change (thus fighting an endless deadlock with people who claim that NO gays are natural and ALL are sinful).
Instead of acknowledging that in SOME cases of homosexuality, people are naturally inclined or born with this orientation and may not change, but some people are unnaturally influenced or reacting due to past abuse which could be healed to change their orientation.
4. Bashing Bush in order to organize politically to get other candidates in government, to such an extreme that it overrode the REAL issues behind the objections and was thus attacked as purely politically motivated (with namecalling like Unamerican or Communist);
then calling Tea Party and anti-Obama activists names like Racist and Nazis for lobbying against Obama to such an extreme it also overrides the VALID objections to his policies too!
5. Then the argument about abortion rights vs. gun rights; where conservatives who don't want govt interfering "at all" with gun rights will go to extreme measures to block proposed legislation they claim is not going to prevent the problem because criminals are going to get guns anyway (and liberals object and blame them for not taking responsibility); and when liberals who don't want govt interfering "at all" with abortion rights go to extreme measures to block any protective legislation, claiming people are going to get abortions anyway, then conservatives object and blame them for the same, etc.

I could go on, but these are the main ones I see the most, in one form or another.

The point is, there is a common failure of people on either the Right or Left to see when they "wax fundamentalist" on certain issues, that have an equivalent on the other side they find EQUALLY blindsided and annoying, when the shoe is on the other foot.

When they realize this is mutual, maybe there is a chance they will stop pushing those buttons and criticizing others, when they do the "EXACT SAME THING" when it comes to their sacred issues they react the same way to!

The refusal to deal with reality and facts clearly defines the Far Right.

The only thing "creating a violently insane political atmosphere" is the left's refusal to deal with reality and facts.

Barack Obama himself has tons of material in his past that clearly indicates he was born in Kenya. Yet, we're all supposed to ignore that and just believe whatever the left tells us.

Every nation in world history that had government controlled healthcare had some form of "Death Panels". When you have an entire nation to care for, and limited resources (ie money, physicians, facilities, etc.), you must make choices about who gets what care. Choices are the nice way of saying "rationing". And rationing is just the nice way of saying "death panels". Yet once again, we are expected to ignore facts, history, and common sense in favor for what ever the left tells us regarding their vision of utopia.

Finally, as far as Communism, well once again - that comes straight from Obama's own mouth and his history:

His mentor (by his own acknowledgement) was Frank Marshall Davis. Frank Marshall Davis was a card carrying member of the Communist Party USA (card carrying CP #47544).

“I actually believe in redistribution” - Senator Barack Obama, 1998

“I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody" - Candidate Barack Obama, 2008

“I mean, I do think at a certain point you’ve made enough money.” - President Barack Obama, 2010

This is but the smallest portion of Barack's history - all of which is 100% fact and all of which can be independently verified by anyone who cares to know the truth. The problem we have in America is that the left prefers utopia over facts/reality.

Your arguments have a lot of holes and false equivalencies emilynghiem. You are pandering.

 

[Bfgrn]

The Far Left had power in the 1960s then we destroyed that power. We will never let it rise up again. We will do the same to the Far Right.

And what did that liberal power create Jake? I've been around since Harry Truman was President, so I lived through a good portion of the liberal era that started with the New Deal and ended with the Great Society. It was America's finest moment. It was an era with huge economic growth and shared wealth, fantastic successes in technology, vast expansion of citizen freedoms and liberties and the growth of a middle class that defined this country and made America the 'city on the hill', the envy of the world.

That era ended at the end of the 1960's and the conservative era began. It has continued ever since. It has been a negative mirror image of the liberal era. We now lead the world only in the dubious like incarcerating human beings, killing innocent people and launching Hirohito sneak attacks on sovereign nations.

So my question Jake, what blame do Republicans and conservatives deserve? You can't have the power, profess 'personable responsibility', then turn around and blame those without power.

What was our debt during the liberal era Jake? JFK and LBJ faced a SURPLUS.

Where did our debt come from? When did massive debt become part of the American economy?

Reagan switched the federal government from what he critically called, a “tax and spend” policy, to a “borrow and spend” policy, where the government continued its heavy spending, but used borrowed money instead of tax revenue to pay the bills. The results were catastrophic. Although it had taken the United States more than 200 years to accumulate the first $1 trillion of national debt, it took only five years under Reagan to add the second one trillion dollars to the debt. By the end of the 12 years of the Reagan-Bush administrations, the national debt had quadrupled to $4 trillion!

 

[JakeStarkey]

LBJ was not far left. Step off, bfgrn.

GHWB was not far right. Step off, bfgrn.

We need keep the far left and the far right down, and we are not doing very well at it.

 

[P@triot]

As Abe Lincoln once said:

"Trickle down economics is a bunch of bullshit, if you cut taxes on the rich.....they just keep the money"

So the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is "a bunch of bullshit", uh?

The wealthy in this nation give generously like no other group of people in world history. Every university in this country has buildings named after wealthy people who donated (ie of their own free will) the money necessary to build those facilities.

Do you have any idea how many hospitals across the nation have facilities that bear the names of people who generously gave millions and millions of dollars?

Do you have any idea how much the wealthy have given to Shriners Hospitals so children could receive FREE healthcare????

Do you have any idea how much the wealthy have given to cancer research, AIDS research, and other medical research?

It's just a FACT that tax cuts for corporations, small business, and the wealthy results in more employment, more charity, more investing, and better conditions for everyone in the U.S.

The only thing that is "bullshit" is your blatant lie that the "rich just keep the money". And the people on this thread wonder why we have the current political climate we do? It's because of people just like you who hate others who were more successful and try to tear them down with lies.

Time to Step Up: Corporate Charity Accounted for Only 5% of Giving in 2011

There's a commercial running on television for a data delivery company where a woman who was late to knowing about a neighbor's newborn child is the loudest when acknowledging a gift sent by other neighbors.

That's just about the way the for-profit sector treats its philanthropy. "Look at us. Look at us. Aren't we great?" There is a conga line of companies lining up for the new "benefit corporation" status in California, constructed for companies that want a do-gooder label. For-profits all want to scream about how much they do for their communities and for philanthropy.

When the new GivingUSA numbers were posted this week and compared to recent events it was incredible to see that one stock transaction -- Facebook's initial public offering -- raised more money than was given by all of corporate America during 2011.

more

Of course - corporations have to make money for their greedy liberal stock holders. They don't have the luxury of passing out money. But you conveniently leave out the wealthy individual (another trait of the left - leaving out the individual in favor of the collective). Lets run the numbers on charity from PEOPLE - not corporations - and lets see what kind of jaw-dropping numbers you find. Bill Gates alone has given $65 billion in his lifetime. One man, a staggering $65 billion.

I have to ask - why is the left so interested in working numbers to make every issue appear different from what it is? Why can't we just have an honest conversation about the numbers?

If you notice in my original post, I never mentioned anything about buildings being named after corporations. I said they were named after PEOPLE. Individuals. Wealthy individuals who have given, and given, and given to charity. And for those amazing acts of kindness, they get villified as "evil" in return by Barack Obama, YOU, and the rest on the left. How sad.

 

[P@triot]

5. Then the argument about abortion rights vs. gun rights; where conservatives who don't want govt interfering "at all" with gun rights will go to extreme measures to block proposed legislation they claim is not going to prevent the problem because criminals are going to get guns anyway (and liberals object and blame them for not taking responsibility); and when liberals who don't want govt interfering "at all" with abortion rights go to extreme measures to block any protective legislation, claiming people are going to get abortions anyway, then conservatives object and blame them for the same, etc.

While you make some GREAT points in your post, there is a major flaw in this point (#5).

• First of all, the 2nd amendment makes owning guns a RIGHT by the US Constitution - the ultimate law of the land. There is no right to abortion - and there never has been.
  
  
• Second, gun advocates aren't making any case about the criminal. It's about the law abiding citizen. If we could really rid the world of guns, a criminal could still stab you to death. A criminal could still beat you to death with a baseball bat or a hammer. The gun is for DEFENSE - and F.B.I. stats prove that where conceal carry is permitted, crime plummets.
  
  
• Third, murder will occur no matter what, yet you've never heard a conservative claim we should legalize it because there is not stopping it. You simply cannot tolerate murder in any capacity. Abortion is just a liberal way of saying MURDER. Would abortions still occur if they were outlawed? Absolutely. Should we tolerate it for that reason? Absolutely not.

 

[P@triot]

The Far Left had power in the 1960s then we destroyed that power. We will never let it rise up again. We will do the same to the Far Right.

And what did that liberal power create Jake? I've been around since Harry Truman was President, so I lived through a good portion of the liberal era that started with the New Deal and ended with the Great Society. It was America's finest moment. It was an era with huge economic growth and shared wealth, fantastic successes in technology, vast expansion of citizen freedoms and liberties and the growth of a middle class that defined this country and made America the 'city on the hill', the envy of the world.

That era ended at the end of the 1960's and the conservative era began. It has continued ever since. It has been a negative mirror image of the liberal era. We now lead the world only in the dubious like incarcerating human beings, killing innocent people and launching Hirohito sneak attacks on sovereign nations.

So my question Jake, what blame do Republicans and conservatives deserve? You can't have the power, profess 'personable responsibility', then turn around and blame those without power.

What was our debt during the liberal era Jake? JFK and LBJ faced a SURPLUS.

Where did our debt come from? When did massive debt become part of the American economy?

Reagan switched the federal government from what he critically called, a “tax and spend” policy, to a “borrow and spend” policy, where the government continued its heavy spending, but used borrowed money instead of tax revenue to pay the bills. The results were catastrophic. Although it had taken the United States more than 200 years to accumulate the first $1 trillion of national debt, it took only five years under Reagan to add the second one trillion dollars to the debt. By the end of the 12 years of the Reagan-Bush administrations, the national debt had quadrupled to $4 trillion!

Funny, Barack Obama has added more to the national debt in 3.5 years than all US Presidents in history combined did during that same time, and yet you don't mention that.

The New Deal was the Raw Deal, and even the left knows it. They just won't admit. It's when the US abandoned Constitutional government, and that is simply unforgivable.

One simple question Bfgrn - if the rise of the liberal movement was so "good", then why did the Democrats feel the need to circumvent the US Constitution in every action it took? For example - Obamacare. If having health care were a right (or, if the federal government truly had the power to force citizens to engage in commerce), then why would the Democrats simply amend the Constitution to reflect that and then legally pass their legislation?

(Answer: because everything they are doing is WRONG and catastrophic to this country, and the American people know it. Therefore, the Democrats can't get the votes necessary to amend the constitution for their communist-like policies.)

 

[JakeStarkey]

False analogy of right to guns and right to abortion.

Abortion is not murder.

5. Then the argument about abortion rights vs. gun rights; where conservatives who don't want govt interfering "at all" with gun rights will go to extreme measures to block proposed legislation they claim is not going to prevent the problem because criminals are going to get guns anyway (and liberals object and blame them for not taking responsibility); and when liberals who don't want govt interfering "at all" with abortion rights go to extreme measures to block any protective legislation, claiming people are going to get abortions anyway, then conservatives object and blame them for the same, etc.

While you make some GREAT points in your post, there is a major flaw in this point (#5).

• First of all, the 2nd amendment makes owning guns a RIGHT by the US Constitution - the ultimate law of the land. There is no right to abortion - and there never has been.
  
  
• Second, gun advocates aren't making any case about the criminal. It's about the law abiding citizen. If we could really rid the world of guns, a criminal could still stab you to death. A criminal could still beat you to death with a baseball bat or a hammer. The gun is for DEFENSE - and F.B.I. stats prove that where conceal carry is permitted, crime plummets.
  
  
• Third, murder will occur no matter what, yet you've never heard a conservative claim we should legalize it because there is not stopping it. You simply cannot tolerate murder in any capacity. Abortion is just a liberal way of saying MURDER. Would abortions still occur if they were outlawed? Absolutely. Should we tolerate it for that reason? Absolutely not.

 

[Bfgrn]

LBJ was not far left. Step off, bfgrn.

GHWB was not far right. Step off, bfgrn.

We need keep the far left and the far right down, and we are not doing very well at it.

Your answers are getting shorter and more vague. You did not address anything I said. You are now reduced to chanting.

There has been a drastic shift to the right in America in my lifetime. What was once the political center has been ripped to the right Jake. It was bought and paid for by people who consider you and I as fodder. It is a combination of a lot of things, but none of them are good for democracy or will benefit the working men and women who are the backbone of We, the People. We are now being sneered at by the candidate you support, and you just nod your head...truly sad.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have had nothing worthwhile to say, bfgrn.

There is a far left in America, and more than once it threatened the stability of the country with its violence. It is not particularly dangerous at the moment because its folks are weak and cowardly.

 

[jtpr312]

Who gives a crap what liberals think of Abe Lincoln, those idiots still think he freed the slaves and was a paragon of love your fellow negro.

 

[Bfgrn]

You have had nothing worthwhile to say, bfgrn.

There is a far left in America, and more than once it threatened the stability of the country with its violence. It is not particularly dangerous at the moment because its folks are weak and cowardly.

Weak, cowardly and at the same time violent...a paradox of epic proportions.

When was this Jake? At Kent State when 4 honor students were violently gunned down in broad daylight?

 

[JakeStarkey]

That crowd was violent. Someone in that crowd fired a handgun prior to the NG volley. The UCSB riot that burned down a bank and killed a person. The bombing at the U of W killed a janitor. The weathermen. The tuffs at CSU at Fullerton who were so tuff that the Orange County riot squad demanding that snipers be set up before the squad deployed.

You are no more innocent that the Far Righties who believe there is only one good side, theirs. I am not impressed at all by your belligerence when you are so ignorant of basic facts. You would make a good Tea Bagger.

 

[Bfgrn]

That crowd was violent. Someone in that crowd fired a handgun prior to the NG volley. The UCSB riot that burned down a bank and killed a person. The bombing at the U of W killed a janitor. The weathermen. The tuffs at CSU at Fullerton who were so tuff that the Orange County riot squad demanding that snipers be set up before the squad deployed.

You are no more innocent that the Far Righties who believe there is only one good side, theirs. I am not impressed at all by your belligerence when you are so ignorant of basic facts. You would make a good Tea Bagger.

Your 'facts' are incorrect, so what does that make you Jake?

The first shots fired at Kent State came from Sgt. Myron Pryor, who turned and began firing at the students with his .45 pistol. None of the protesters had weapons.

The only fatality at Isla Vista was 22-year-old UCSB student Kevin Moran who was shot and killed. Although the police claimed the bullet originated from a sniper in the crowd, a ballistics test determined that it came from policeman's rifle. The incident was deemed an accident, and the officer was later exonerated.

The violence started as a group of students walked back toward Isla Vista after a speech by William Kunstler, police beat 22-year-old student Rich Underwood into submission and arrested him for carrying a bottle of wine they assumed was a Molotov cocktail.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves." --Abraham Lincoln


O.K. Liberals explain this one--

This is probably the best quote I have seen from any President. Apparently our politicians with all their Harvard Law degrees--still don't get it. This quote from someone that had to teach himself how to read & write while using a candle to illuminate the pages of his books so he could read.

So why did Mitt Romney decide to incite class hatred by classifying almost the entire lower half of income earners as government dependent who think of themselves as victims?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I said, "Someone in that crowd fired a handgun prior to the NG volley." Sgt Pryor's statement is problematic and not believed by many. Innocents died because of lefty rioting. Those are the facts, Bfgrn.

You only look silly when you mess with those who are better informed and more literate than you. Be polite, and I will take it easy on you.

That crowd was violent. Someone in that crowd fired a handgun prior to the NG volley. The UCSB riot that burned down a bank and killed a person. The bombing at the U of W killed a janitor. The weathermen. The tuffs at CSU at Fullerton who were so tuff that the Orange County riot squad demanding that snipers be set up before the squad deployed.

You are no more innocent that the Far Righties who believe there is only one good side, theirs. I am not impressed at all by your belligerence when you are so ignorant of basic facts. You would make a good Tea Bagger.

Your 'facts' are incorrect, so what does that make you Jake?

The first shots fired at Kent State came from Sgt. Myron Pryor, who turned and began firing at the students with his .45 pistol. None of the protesters had weapons.

The only fatality at Isla Vista was 22-year-old UCSB student Kevin Moran who was shot and killed. Although the police claimed the bullet originated from a sniper in the crowd, a ballistics test determined that it came from policeman's rifle. The incident was deemed an accident, and the officer was later exonerated.

The violence started as a group of students walked back toward Isla Vista after a speech by William Kunstler, police beat 22-year-old student Rich Underwood into submission and arrested him for carrying a bottle of wine they assumed was a Molotov cocktail.

 

[Bfgrn]

I said, "Someone in that crowd fired a handgun prior to the NG volley." Sgt Pryor's statement is problematic and not believed by many. Innocents died because of lefty rioting. Those are the facts, Bfgrn.

You only look silly when you mess with those who are better informed and more literate than you. Be polite, and I will take it easy on you.

That crowd was violent. Someone in that crowd fired a handgun prior to the NG volley. The UCSB riot that burned down a bank and killed a person. The bombing at the U of W killed a janitor. The weathermen. The tuffs at CSU at Fullerton who were so tuff that the Orange County riot squad demanding that snipers be set up before the squad deployed.

You are no more innocent that the Far Righties who believe there is only one good side, theirs. I am not impressed at all by your belligerence when you are so ignorant of basic facts. You would make a good Tea Bagger.

Your 'facts' are incorrect, so what does that make you Jake?

The first shots fired at Kent State came from Sgt. Myron Pryor, who turned and began firing at the students with his .45 pistol. None of the protesters had weapons.

The only fatality at Isla Vista was 22-year-old UCSB student Kevin Moran who was shot and killed. Although the police claimed the bullet originated from a sniper in the crowd, a ballistics test determined that it came from policeman's rifle. The incident was deemed an accident, and the officer was later exonerated.

The violence started as a group of students walked back toward Isla Vista after a speech by William Kunstler, police beat 22-year-old student Rich Underwood into submission and arrested him for carrying a bottle of wine they assumed was a Molotov cocktail.

Sorry Jake, you're dealing with someone who is not going to buy your crap. All your chest beating does is expose how insecure your really are. It is an epidemic among conservatives.

All you have to do to refute that first shots fired at Kent State came from Sgt. Myron Pryor is to produce a weapon and ballistics.

I'll be waiting Jake.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sorry, son, your cover is gone, and no one is buying you except the far left. I don't have to refute what has not been proved. That is your problem.

Some little lefty punk had a hand gun, provoked a fire fight with the NG, and the left is innocent.

Not buying your lying story, even all these years later.

 

[Bfgrn]

Sorry, son, your cover is gone, and no one is buying you except the far left. I don't have to refute what has not been proved. That is your problem.

Some little lefty punk had a hand gun, provoked a fire fight with the NG, and the left is innocent.

Not buying your lying story, even all these years later.

Jake, you are misinformed or lying. And worse than that, you are siding with the executioners. But, hey Jake, they were just 'leftists', not real Americans like you. Even though they were unarmed and gunned down in broad daylight, I'm sure we could find some crime they committed that deserved execution... maybe vandalism or some other 'leftist' 'capital' crime?

The 1975 Civil Trial and Captain Ron Snyder

After I wrote the article about Stuart Allen, saying he detected a second and actual order to fire (which no newspaper in the country, including the Daily Kent Stater, covered) I heard from John Mangels, the Plain Dealer's science reporter. Mangels was the author of the three front-page stories that gave rise to the calls for a new investigation. That made him, as far as I am concerned, one of the unsung heroes of May 4. He reminded me that he interviewed Captain Ron Snyder for his initial story on May 9, 2010, and that Snyder (like Captain Martin and Sergeant Matthew McManus) challenged Allen's finding, claiming the preliminary order did not sound like an order someone in the military would give.

That had completely slipped my mind, probably because Ron "Cynanide" Snyder is not a source I ever gave much credence to. That is partially because Snyder was not even among the squad that opened fire that day and thus, was not in a position to know what really happened. His unit was on the other side of Taylor Hall when the shootings broke, and the building completely blocked his view.

Also, I still cannot get out of my head something said about Snyder after he originally told author James Michener, the Akron Beacon Journal, and a state grand jury that he confiscated a gun and brass knuckles off the body of slain student Jeffrey Miller. Snyder subsequently admitted he fabricated this claim because he wanted to make the victims seem dangerous, thereby making the shootings look justifiable. Snyder decided to come clean after the Justice Department started investigating this claim. I saw papers on Judge Frank Battisti's law clerk's desk suggesting the Justice Department seriously considered indicting him for perjury before the original state grand jury.

ref

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

 

[emilynghiem]

Of course the Far Left is as crazy, Emily, as is the Far Right.

Either the good people America crush both extremes, or one side or the other will lead us to slaughter.

What you fail to realize is that the "far left" has no power in this country. BOTH parties are right of center. It is a dangerous place to be.

Dear JakeS and Bfgrn:
Both the Left and the Right will bias their own media and information sources/networks to keep feeding the same propaganda to their respective followers en masse. The power to either keep exploiting conflicts by conveniently blaming the other group, or to SOLVE problems by promoting and replicating working programs as models, lies in these relationships and "circles of influence". All people have access to power this way. Whether or not we use it, or we defer authority and action to others to tell us what to think and do, reflects in our attitudes that in turn influence the people around us to act or not to act, and/or to depend on other people or groups.

Both Left and Right will complain that the other is controlling the masses through the media. We all have equal power to influence the people, relations and institutions within our circles, through our thoughts, words and actions. Fighting over power -- with fear-based competition and conflict with other groups, and oppressing people by lack of knowledge of how to use their existing resources to effect change "regardless" of what other people do and who holds office -- is part of the game that partisan politics takes advantage of. The best way I know to overcome this gameplaying, which feeds media biat as on both sides of any issue "conveniently polarized" to incite and divide, is to encourage people to find, align and focus on points of agreement and solutions both sides believe are effective approaches to a given problem, INSTEAD of focusing on unresolved faults or issues to discredit and justify rejecting the opposing side.

More of these issues will be corrected, and progress made in govt and social reform, by combining team efforts and resources to achieve common goals, in ways that no one opposes, if people are truly sincere about ending the problems being criticized, and are not just using them as an excuse to blame another group to gain political favor or power.

The real power to change comes from within people, and within groups; not forcing change from the outside which is naturally met with rejection and projected blame trying to force the opposing side to change instead. We know that does not work, but ends in deadlock. As long as we insist on continuing this way in conflict, we invite other people, groups, and especially govt to step in and make decisions for us. However, where we take responsibility BACK on ourselves for solving our own problems, and organize support and resources around things that work, that's where "people are the govt" and have authority to tell govt what to do that represents public interests, not vice versa where we depend on govt to rescue us from whatever "other group" we fear is trying to take over control and influence.

 

[JakeStarkey]

A liar tells part of the story and let's the rest go. Bfgrn, you are a liar,not uninformed. I will give you the opportunity to put in all of the information.

Go for it.

Sorry, son, your cover is gone, and no one is buying you except the far left. I don't have to refute what has not been proved. That is your problem.

Some little lefty punk had a hand gun, provoked a fire fight with the NG, and the left is innocent.

Not buying your lying story, even all these years later.

Jake, you are misinformed or lying. And worse than that, you are siding with the executioners. But, hey Jake, they were just 'leftists', not real Americans like you. Even though they were unarmed and gunned down in broad daylight, I'm sure we could find some crime they committed that deserved execution... maybe vandalism or some other 'leftist' 'capital' crime?

The 1975 Civil Trial and Captain Ron Snyder

After I wrote the article about Stuart Allen, saying he detected a second and actual order to fire (which no newspaper in the country, including the Daily Kent Stater, covered) I heard from John Mangels, the Plain Dealer's science reporter. Mangels was the author of the three front-page stories that gave rise to the calls for a new investigation. That made him, as far as I am concerned, one of the unsung heroes of May 4. He reminded me that he interviewed Captain Ron Snyder for his initial story on May 9, 2010, and that Snyder (like Captain Martin and Sergeant Matthew McManus) challenged Allen's finding, claiming the preliminary order did not sound like an order someone in the military would give.

That had completely slipped my mind, probably because Ron "Cynanide" Snyder is not a source I ever gave much credence to. That is partially because Snyder was not even among the squad that opened fire that day and thus, was not in a position to know what really happened. His unit was on the other side of Taylor Hall when the shootings broke, and the building completely blocked his view.

Also, I still cannot get out of my head something said about Snyder after he originally told author James Michener, the Akron Beacon Journal, and a state grand jury that he confiscated a gun and brass knuckles off the body of slain student Jeffrey Miller. Snyder subsequently admitted he fabricated this claim because he wanted to make the victims seem dangerous, thereby making the shootings look justifiable. Snyder decided to come clean after the Justice Department started investigating this claim. I saw papers on Judge Frank Battisti's law clerk's desk suggesting the Justice Department seriously considered indicting him for perjury before the original state grand jury.

ref

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus