A Double Standard

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by preemptingyou03, May 6, 2004.

  1. preemptingyou03
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    preemptingyou03 Member

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    This past week, the entire world was introduced to disturbing, appalling, and pathetic pictures of American soldiers humiliating and abusing Iraqi prisoners of war, in the Abu Ghraib prison south of Baghdad. The pictures prompted the military and the Departments of Defense and State to investigate, and these actions were condemned by every politician, including the president, on both sides of the political spectrum; as they should be. These pictures showed naked Iraqis, forced to being put in sexual positions, as well as a hooded man who was taped with wires and was forced to stand on a box. He was told if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted.

    These actions brought up a debate about what is and what isn’t acceptable in the interrogation of prisoners of war. The bottom line is these acts were the actions of six to twelve American soldiers, not the American military. They are not condoned by anyone in our country, for they do not represent American values and ideals.

    But even as President Bush expressed his sympathy to the Arab world on Arab TV and gave his apology to moderate Arab leaders and Iraqi citizens, and even as the American military immediately vowed to take action against these few individuals who did this, the French newspaper Le Monde has called American troops “Iraq’s new Saddam.” Let’s get something straight: over 700 American soldiers have died to free a nation from a ruthless tyrant. American taxpayers have spent hundreds of billions of dollars, and will continue to do so, to supply Iraq with enough food, water, electricity, power, and energy, to get their country up and running after three decades of neglect. The Iraqi government gassed and slaughtered over 750,000 civilians… and no uproar happened, yet six American individuals embarrassed some prisoners of war, and we’re the world’s biggest bully? When Saddam Hussein was asked in 1998, why he would order the rape of the wives of men who opposed him, he stated, “What else do you expect, if you oppose the regime?” Yet, when six Americans get too rambunctious, our entire government looks into the situation to hold these people accountable. We did not feed Iraqi civilians into wood chippers. We did not make civilians drink molten lead. We did not put a rat on their stomach, and place a kitchen pot on top of it. That was the man we were sent there to remove. While these actions of a few individuals are cruel and un-American, there is no comparison, much the way there is no perspective throughout the world.

    Just recently, Sudan won an election in the United Nation’s main human rights watchdog, even after all of the ethnic cleansing and genocide in Sudan’s Darfur region, where millions of non-Muslim Africans have been killed by the Islamic Sudanese government. Their government, not six individuals, did these actions. No uproar is heard. In fact, their actions are overlooked. Syria, a sponsor of terrorism, has a Security Council vote, and Libya, an oppressive dictatorship, is actually in charge of Human Rights within the United Nations. Saudi Arabia’s secret police recently locked the doors to a girl’s college dormitory, after it caught fire, out of fear the girls did not put on their veils before fleeing the burning building. Over 560 girls were locked in the dormitory when it burned down. No mention is made of that. Of course, bad behavior does not excuse bad behavior, but these backward countries have been legitimized, even after all the ethnic cleansing, genocide, mass murder, rape, and torture of millions of their citizens.

    While European and Arab media outlets are gleefully enjoying this opportunity to demonize all of America, no mention is made that when Iran, an enemy if there ever was an enemy, suffered a devastating earthquake killing thousands, it was the United States who offered to help. No mention is made that when a train crashed in communist North Korea, a nation actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons, it was the United States who offered help.

    Instead, there is a double standard. Instead, they focus in on the actions of six soldiers against ten or so prisoners. Nobody with a right mind condones what those six soldiers did to the Iraqi prisoners. But things have yet to be taken into context. In a war, irrationality can sometimes flourish, and people are bound to cross the line. These actions do not represent the majority of the brave and honorable American troops, who have been called to do unprecedented things. Americans are not just actively trying to secure and stabilize Iraq, but these 19 and 20 year old kids are being asked to pave roads, serve food, and build schools, and in one case, an American Marine was asked to coach an Iraqi high school soccer team. The undignified actions of a few should never taint the honorable and noble mission of the mass, and while we willingly continue to hold the highest standard for human rights, we are given the shortest leash. Is there a double standard? Yes. Will we complain to any large degree? No, that’s not our style.
     
  2. spillmind
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    spillmind Member

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    six soldiers? i'll bet that there are more occurances than this.
     
  3. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    You bet or you hope?
     
  4. preemptingyou03
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    preemptingyou03 Member

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    What percentage of American troops were involved in this? Out of 200,000 in the Middle East, 135,000 in Iraq...

    What is it, 10 guys? 20? 50? So it was .00001%, basically.

    Gimme a break. There's a double standard and you know it. Everyone loves to hate the military and economic superpower.
     
  5. preemptingyou03
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    preemptingyou03 Member

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    He hopes. Everyone who hates capitalism and Bush is gleefully enjoying this.

    49 Dems today didn't vote on a House Resolution that praised our troops, but called these acts terrible. What's up with that? Doesn't that make sense? I thought these acts were terrible, which they are, but our troops should be praised, yet Pelosi and Rangel or however you spell their names didn't vote to praise the majority of American troops. They just wanted to blast the actions to the POWs.

    These are the same people that when we show them the thousands of mass graves, they say, "Who cares? Where are the WMDs?"

    All of a sudden, they are Human Rights lovers... just like Sudan, Libya, and Syria, right?
     
  6. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    Selective Outrage. Yes Hannity said it, but it fits.
     
  7. Johnney
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    Johnney Senior Member

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    heres a question, how come it is when other countries dissregard the geneva convention its not a big deal, but when the US does it everynes panties are in a bunch?
    a little psy-ops never hurt anyone. so they were hooded and naked, big deal.
    as far as interrogations go, what ever it takes to get the job done and make sure im safe in my bed, your safe in your bed, and the US borders are safe. if someone has to get hurt in order for that to happen, then it has to happen. the end will justify the means.
     
  8. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    It's like I said in the other post regarding the double standard. People in america don't understand the main difference between the cultures of the east and middleast vs the west.

    Here in america, we have a guilt culture. The east and middle east is a shame culture. while it doesn't sound much different its actually a HUGE difference.
     
  9. Comrade
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    Comrade Senior Member

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    I wanted to point out to all sides in the debate over this issue, that, as a fact, the military investigation was well underway since January of this year, based upon allegation of this abuse made in November, 2003. These particular photos have only now become a matter of public domain in the process of an ongoing investigation, which had already placed in suspension a series of officers along the chain of command up the line including the commander of the prison.

    There is no scoop which inspired any ass-covering nonesense.

    I only mention this because of the lack of information in the media about the military investigation underway.
     
  10. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    originally posted by preemptingyou03

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2004/index.asp
    "H.RES.627
    Title: Deploring the abuse of persons in United States custody in Iraq, regardless of the circumstances of their detention, urging the Secretary of the Army to bring to swift justice any member of the Armed Forces who has violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice, expressing the deep appreciation of the Nation to the courageous and honorable members of the Armed Forces who have selflessly served, or are currently serving, in Operation Iraqi Freedom, and for other purposes.
    Sponsor: Rep Hunter, Duncan [CA-52] (introduced 5/5/2004) Cosponsors: (none)
    Related Bills: H.RES.628
    Latest Major Action: 5/6/2004 Rules Committee Resolution H. Res. 628 Reported to House. Rule provides for consideration of H. Res. 627 with 1 hour of general debate. Motion to recommit allowed. Measure will be considered read. Bill is closed to amendments"

    I share your views on the points you made in the basic post for this thread. But in regard to the resolution above, I would have to say that were I in congress, I too would have voted against it. The problem I have with the resolution is this phrase: "urging the Secretary of the Army to bring to swift justice any member of the Armed Forces who has violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice".

    The effects of this resolution would be to cheapen the process of military justice with political interference. It would taint any military judicial proceding with the real or perceived element of political pressure. It would also give those who may be found guilty an automatic basis for appeal. There is no place in a true justice system for political meddling.

    Picture yourself accused of a crime and congress sends a resolution to the prosecuting attorney that he should ensure "swift justice" for you. Feel that rope tightening?

    If they want to praise the troops, then praise the troops. If you want to pass a resolution critical of the acts committed on those prisoners, that's fine too. But don't mix the two. And leave the UCMJ alone. It has worked just fine for many decades without "help" from congress.
     

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