A Blow to the Muslim Brotherhood

[MHunterB]

When is anyone imagining that Egypt had a 'democracy' in any usual sense of the word?

 

[Trajan]

As usual the CIA and Mossad have done their dirty work on behest of the zionist cabal within the U.S. government.

This illegal coup is going to lead to the destabilization of Egypt for at least the next decade.

you're going to need to offer more than that or I cannot take your posts seriously, please provide some evidence, if it is so, it is so...but.....absent that?

 

[MHunterB]

"The Egyptian military's apparent ouster of the Muslim Brotherhood from power after just one troubled year in office deals a blow to the movement's push for influence in the region. It could mark the start of Islamists' decline as a political power in the region, but could also push some Islamists to give up on democracy and turn to violence. The Brotherhood has hemorrhaged support since Mohammed Morsi won the presidency 12 months ago with 51% of the popular vote. Under Brotherhood rule, crime has spiked, the economy has tanked, and the country's politics has grown dangerously polarized. The popular upswell of discontent with the Brotherhood and the movement's governing shortcomings has been acknowledged even to the movement's most defiant leaders.

The apparent ouster of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is the most dramatic example of a trend seen elsewhere in the region. The rapid ascendance of Islamist movements in Arab countries as a result of the Arab Spring uprisings in 2011, is giving way to backlash against those movements. In Tunisia, the assassination in February of a secular opposition figure split the ruling Ennahda Party and triggered an unprecedented outpouring of protest which forced the country's Islamist rulers to reshuffle the government and bow to some opposition demands."
Egyptian military ousts Morsi, suspends constitution - The Washington Post

This trend is seen throughout the region as questions arise as to what caused this decline in support coupled with where is this movement headed now. This failed experiment leaves behind the legacy that sharia cannot coexist with democratic principals where people need to have freedoms but are thwarted by "the imposition of the Islamist views propagated by the Muslim Brotherhood."

All theocracies fail miserably when it comes to governance.

so does communism....

Communism as implemented by any nation has been no different functionally from a theocracy, true.

 

[Connery]

"The Egyptian military's apparent ouster of the Muslim Brotherhood from power after just one troubled year in office deals a blow to the movement's push for influence in the region. It could mark the start of Islamists' decline as a political power in the region, but could also push some Islamists to give up on democracy and turn to violence. The Brotherhood has hemorrhaged support since Mohammed Morsi won the presidency 12 months ago with 51% of the popular vote. Under Brotherhood rule, crime has spiked, the economy has tanked, and the country's politics has grown dangerously polarized. The popular upswell of discontent with the Brotherhood and the movement's governing shortcomings has been acknowledged even to the movement's most defiant leaders.

The apparent ouster of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is the most dramatic example of a trend seen elsewhere in the region. The rapid ascendance of Islamist movements in Arab countries as a result of the Arab Spring uprisings in 2011, is giving way to backlash against those movements. In Tunisia, the assassination in February of a secular opposition figure split the ruling Ennahda Party and triggered an unprecedented outpouring of protest which forced the country's Islamist rulers to reshuffle the government and bow to some opposition demands."
Egyptian military ousts Morsi, suspends constitution - The Washington Post

This trend is seen throughout the region as questions arise as to what caused this decline in support coupled with where is this movement headed now. This failed experiment leaves behind the legacy that sharia cannot coexist with democratic principals where people need to have freedoms but are thwarted by "the imposition of the Islamist views propagated by the Muslim Brotherhood."

All theocracies fail miserably when it comes to governance.

Egypt was the jewel in the crown of "Islamic Democracy", a concept that appears to cancel each other out from the very start. There does not seem to be a balance between fundamentalism and democratic values. I do believe Morsi was sincere in his vision if not his efforts to truly establish Islamic Democracy. Indeed, the words of the 2004 European Court of Human Rights ring true in this situation where they "found that sharia was incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy… It considered that “sharia, which faithfully reflects the dogmas and divine rules laid down by religion, is stable and invariable. Principles such as pluralism in the political sphere or the constant evolution of public freedoms have no place in it. According to the Court, it was difficult to declare one’s respect for democracy and human rights while at the same time supporting a regime based on sharia, which clearly diverged from Convention values, particularly with regard to its criminal law and criminal procedure, its rules on the legal status of women and the way it intervened in all spheres of private and public life in accordance with religious precepts.”
http://www.iilj.org/courses/documents/refahpartisivturkey.pdf

In this setting the only truths that are spoken point to an oppressive and overbearing government that controls every aspect of a person's life. The promises of democratic freedoms or rights for women are illusory and create despair and resentment. The enemy then becomes those who are in power rather than any foreign power and society is at a standstill. The region is unstable much of it due to Islamic Democracy.

 

[Sunni Man]

As usual the CIA and Mossad have done their dirty work on behest of the zionist cabal within the U.S. government.

This illegal coup is going to lead to the destabilization of Egypt for at least the next decade.

you're going to need to offer more than that or I cannot take your posts seriously, please provide some evidence, if it is so, it is so...but.....assent that?

As with most dramatic political events.

It takes years, or even decades, before the 'true story' behind the event is disclosed to the public.

 

[Sunshine]

"The Egyptian military's apparent ouster of the Muslim Brotherhood from power after just one troubled year in office deals a blow to the movement's push for influence in the region. It could mark the start of Islamists' decline as a political power in the region, but could also push some Islamists to give up on democracy and turn to violence. The Brotherhood has hemorrhaged support since Mohammed Morsi won the presidency 12 months ago with 51% of the popular vote. Under Brotherhood rule, crime has spiked, the economy has tanked, and the country's politics has grown dangerously polarized. The popular upswell of discontent with the Brotherhood and the movement's governing shortcomings has been acknowledged even to the movement's most defiant leaders.

The apparent ouster of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is the most dramatic example of a trend seen elsewhere in the region. The rapid ascendance of Islamist movements in Arab countries as a result of the Arab Spring uprisings in 2011, is giving way to backlash against those movements. In Tunisia, the assassination in February of a secular opposition figure split the ruling Ennahda Party and triggered an unprecedented outpouring of protest which forced the country's Islamist rulers to reshuffle the government and bow to some opposition demands."
Egyptian military ousts Morsi, suspends constitution - The Washington Post

This trend is seen throughout the region as questions arise as to what caused this decline in support coupled with where is this movement headed now. This failed experiment leaves behind the legacy that sharia cannot coexist with democratic principals where people need to have freedoms but are thwarted by "the imposition of the Islamist views propagated by the Muslim Brotherhood."

All theocracies fail miserably when it comes to governance.

Egypt was the jewel in the crown of "Islamic Democracy", a concept that appears to cancel each other out from the very start. There does not seem to be a balance between fundamentalism and democratic values. I do believe Morsi was sincere in his vision if not his efforts to truly establish Islamic Democracy. Indeed, the words of the 2004 European Court of Human Rights ring true in this situation where they "found that sharia was incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy… It considered that “sharia, which faithfully reflects the dogmas and divine rules laid down by religion, is stable and invariable. Principles such as pluralism in the political sphere or the constant evolution of public freedoms have no place in it. According to the Court, it was difficult to declare one’s respect for democracy and human rights while at the same time supporting a regime based on sharia, which clearly diverged from Convention values, particularly with regard to its criminal law and criminal procedure, its rules on the legal status of women and the way it intervened in all spheres of private and public life in accordance with religious precepts.”
http://www.iilj.org/courses/documents/refahpartisivturkey.pdf

In this setting the only truths that are spoken point to an oppressive and overbearing government that controls every aspect of a person's life. The promises of democratic freedoms or rights for women are illusory and create despair and resentment. The enemy then becomes those who are in power rather than any foreign power and society is at a standstill. The region is unstable much of it due to Islamic Democracy.

The Morsi regine was oppressive to women and to the Christian and Jewish minorities. I was actually in the Jewish synagogue and the Christian church in Cairo. They have been on my mind these last months as stories have unfolded about their persecution under this new so called democracy. Of course posting anything about that gets you called a bigot and racist, so those of us who have been and seen and know that those minorities were well tolerated before Arab Spring, just silently hope for something like this. I never expected it this soon.

 

[Sunshine]

When is anyone imagining that Egypt had a 'democracy' in any usual sense of the word?

Their voting in a theocracy has been hailed and justified as 'what the people want.' They do the same thing with Tibet. But they ignore that rights of the minorities in Egypt and in Tibet should count for something. Also, I'm sure there must be one in Tibet who doesn't want a theocracy there either. I realize the Vatican is a theocracy as the Holy See for the Catholic church. But it always has been and was recognized as a independent state through treaties with Italy in 1929. No one questions that theocracy, just as no one questions Mecca. But Egypt is not the Vatican, nor is it Mecca. When I was there in 2009, I learned that the three religions that were allowed by the government were Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. That got a little dicey under the Islamic theocracy. But the people have spoken. Again! Hooray for the people of Egypt!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy#Holy_See_.28Vatican_City.29

 

[Connery]

As usual the CIA and Mossad have done their dirty work on behest of the zionist cabal within the U.S. government.

This illegal coup is going to lead to the destabilization of Egypt for at least the next decade.

you're going to need to offer more than that or I cannot take your posts seriously, please provide some evidence, if it is so, it is so...but.....assent that?

As with most dramatic political events.

It takes years, or even decades, before the 'true story' behind the event is disclosed to the public.

Butt somehow you are in the know while the rest of us are held in suspense...

Do you have one scintilla of evidence or even some indicators that this situation is what you you describe?

 

[Connery]

All theocracies fail miserably when it comes to governance.

Egypt was the jewel in the crown of "Islamic Democracy", a concept that appears to cancel each other out from the very start. There does not seem to be a balance between fundamentalism and democratic values. I do believe Morsi was sincere in his vision if not his efforts to truly establish Islamic Democracy. Indeed, the words of the 2004 European Court of Human Rights ring true in this situation where they "found that sharia was incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy… It considered that “sharia, which faithfully reflects the dogmas and divine rules laid down by religion, is stable and invariable. Principles such as pluralism in the political sphere or the constant evolution of public freedoms have no place in it. According to the Court, it was difficult to declare one’s respect for democracy and human rights while at the same time supporting a regime based on sharia, which clearly diverged from Convention values, particularly with regard to its criminal law and criminal procedure, its rules on the legal status of women and the way it intervened in all spheres of private and public life in accordance with religious precepts.”
http://www.iilj.org/courses/documents/refahpartisivturkey.pdf

In this setting the only truths that are spoken point to an oppressive and overbearing government that controls every aspect of a person's life. The promises of democratic freedoms or rights for women are illusory and create despair and resentment. The enemy then becomes those who are in power rather than any foreign power and society is at a standstill. The region is unstable much of it due to Islamic Democracy.

The Morsi regine was oppressive to women and to the Christian and Jewish minorities. I was actually in the Jewish synagogue and the Christian church in Cairo. They have been on my mind these last months as stories have unfolded about their persecution under this new so called democracy. Of course posting anything about that gets you called a bigot and racist, so those of us who have been and seen and know that those minorities were well tolerated before Arab Spring, just silently hope for something like this. I never expected it this soon.

Thanks for your first hand perspective...

Funny thing is I did expect this from the day the MB came into power. No one or no power can quell the human spirit.

 

[Sunshine]

Egypt was the jewel in the crown of "Islamic Democracy", a concept that appears to cancel each other out from the very start. There does not seem to be a balance between fundamentalism and democratic values. I do believe Morsi was sincere in his vision if not his efforts to truly establish Islamic Democracy. Indeed, the words of the 2004 European Court of Human Rights ring true in this situation where they "found that sharia was incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy… It considered that “sharia, which faithfully reflects the dogmas and divine rules laid down by religion, is stable and invariable. Principles such as pluralism in the political sphere or the constant evolution of public freedoms have no place in it. According to the Court, it was difficult to declare one’s respect for democracy and human rights while at the same time supporting a regime based on sharia, which clearly diverged from Convention values, particularly with regard to its criminal law and criminal procedure, its rules on the legal status of women and the way it intervened in all spheres of private and public life in accordance with religious precepts.”
http://www.iilj.org/courses/documents/refahpartisivturkey.pdf

In this setting the only truths that are spoken point to an oppressive and overbearing government that controls every aspect of a person's life. The promises of democratic freedoms or rights for women are illusory and create despair and resentment. The enemy then becomes those who are in power rather than any foreign power and society is at a standstill. The region is unstable much of it due to Islamic Democracy.

The Morsi regine was oppressive to women and to the Christian and Jewish minorities. I was actually in the Jewish synagogue and the Christian church in Cairo. They have been on my mind these last months as stories have unfolded about their persecution under this new so called democracy. Of course posting anything about that gets you called a bigot and racist, so those of us who have been and seen and know that those minorities were well tolerated before Arab Spring, just silently hope for something like this. I never expected it this soon.

Thanks for your first hand perspective...

Funny thing is I did expect this from the day the MB came into power. No one or no power can quell the human spirit.

That is true. I think one of my Egyptian guides, Walid, may have been Christian. He said he was educated at a Catholic University in the US, but I don't recall which one. All 3 of our guides were Egyptian. They were VERY knowledgeable. I believed at the time I was there that all 3 of those major religions got along fairly well. When we visited the Mosque of Mohammed Ali (not the fighter), they had a newspaper article displayed about the day the Virgin Mary appeared in Egypt. It was just after the 6 day war, Walid said he believed that it was a true miracle, and that it served to calm and reassure the Egyptian people of their place in the world.

Our Lady of Zeitoun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I mean, seriously, you have to experience it and not just the above, there were many things that indicated the Egyptians could all live in peace. And I'll never forget the day the man in Arab dress at the Great Pyramid, helped me navigate through the rocks, saying 'you are my sister, I will help you.' I assumed he was Muslim. But he could have been anything as it was clear he was a paid part of the attraction.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Israel and the CIA were sabotaging everything they could behind the scenes to destroy the MB

Obama recently gave the Egyptian military 1.5 billion in weapons and support.

Which was in reality a pay off to oust Morsi and kick out the MB from power.

Wrong. Obama gave that to President Morsi representing the Egyptian Government, Sunni. It still didn't stop the Egyptian army from removing His Dictator Friend ( Morsi's own words - Obama is - our friend ) from power.

So there you have it.

The Egyptian people won out.

 

[Sunni Man]

So there you have it.

The Egyptian people won out.

Incorrect.

The only winner in this situation is Israel and zionist fascists who rule that apartheid nation.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The Morsi regine was oppressive to women and to the Christian and Jewish minorities. I was actually in the Jewish synagogue and the Christian church in Cairo. They have been on my mind these last months as stories have unfolded about their persecution under this new so called democracy. Of course posting anything about that gets you called a bigot and racist, so those of us who have been and seen and know that those minorities were well tolerated before Arab Spring, just silently hope for something like this. I never expected it this soon.

Thanks for your first hand perspective...

Funny thing is I did expect this from the day the MB came into power. No one or no power can quell the human spirit.

That is true. I think one of my Egyptian guides, Walid, may have been Christian. He said he was educated at a Catholic University in the US, but I don't recall which one. All 3 of our guides were Egyptian. They were VERY knowledgeable. I believed at the time I was there that all 3 of those major religions got along fairly well. When we visited the Mosque of Mohammed Ali (not the fighter), they had a newspaper article displayed about the day the Virgin Mary appeared in Egypt. It was just after the 6 day war, Walid said he believed that it was a true miracle, and that it served to calm and reassure the Egyptian people of their place in the world.

Our Lady of Zeitoun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I mean, seriously, you have to experience it and not just the above, there were many things that indicated the Egyptians could all live in peace. And I'll never forget the day the man in Arab dress at the Great Pyramid, helped me navigate through the rocks, saying 'you are my sister, I will help you.' I assumed he was Muslim. But he could have been anything as it was clear he was a paid part of the attraction.

I believe you are right. They could all live in peace if given the opportunity. I hope they put military on their borders to keep out the troublemakers and take back their nation completely. They could have a very bright future ahead of them if they are vigilant about it. The opportunities for them now are wide open. Their tourism could return very quickly if they stay on course here. I'd love to see a free, prosperous Egypt. - J.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

So there you have it.

The Egyptian people won out.

Incorrect.

The only winner in this situation is Israel and zionist fascists who rule that apartheid nation.

I'm sad to hear you see it this way, Sunni. I don't believe Israel has any designs on taking over Egypt though.

I'm surprised to hear you are against the will of the Egyptian people who came out in overwhelming support of being free of the tyrannical leadership Morsi tried to impose upon them. I thought you were for freedom, Sunni. Isn't that what you said about becoming an American? You are for freedom, right?

Egyptian people deserve to know what it is to be free too. This is a good thing. Could not have happened on a better day. Independence day! Indeed it is. - J.

 

[Connery]

The Morsi regine was oppressive to women and to the Christian and Jewish minorities. I was actually in the Jewish synagogue and the Christian church in Cairo. They have been on my mind these last months as stories have unfolded about their persecution under this new so called democracy. Of course posting anything about that gets you called a bigot and racist, so those of us who have been and seen and know that those minorities were well tolerated before Arab Spring, just silently hope for something like this. I never expected it this soon.

Thanks for your first hand perspective...

Funny thing is I did expect this from the day the MB came into power. No one or no power can quell the human spirit.

That is true. I think one of my Egyptian guides, Walid, may have been Christian. He said he was educated at a Catholic University in the US, but I don't recall which one. All 3 of our guides were Egyptian. They were VERY knowledgeable. I believed at the time I was there that all 3 of those major religions got along fairly well. When we visited the Mosque of Mohammed Ali (not the fighter), they had a newspaper article displayed about the day the Virgin Mary appeared in Egypt. It was just after the 6 day war, Walid said he believed that it was a true miracle, and that it served to calm and reassure the Egyptian people of their place in the world.

Our Lady of Zeitoun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I mean, seriously, you have to experience it and not just the above, there were many things that indicated the Egyptians could all live in peace. And I'll never forget the day the man in Arab dress at the Great Pyramid, helped me navigate through the rocks, saying 'you are my sister, I will help you.' I assumed he was Muslim. But he could have been anything as it was clear he was a paid part of the attraction.

I do not think the "people" would be at odds with each other. I do believe it is those who rule that create the dissension and place obstacles before those simply wish to live their lives, cherish their loved ones and coexist in harmony with their brothers and sisters. The former regime is a perfect example.

 

[Sunni Man]

Israel hated the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood was the political party which won the election 1 year ago.

And was working furiously behind the scenes to destabilize the elected government and forment a military coup.

And with the help of a 1.5 billion dollar bribe from the U.S. government to the military.

The budding Egyptian democracy was squished like a bug.

 

[MHunterB]

What about the TWENTY MILLION Egyptians who signed their names to recall petitions - they don't appear anywhere in Sunni's 'description' ......

 

[Trajan]

As usual the CIA and Mossad have done their dirty work on behest of the zionist cabal within the U.S. government.

This illegal coup is going to lead to the destabilization of Egypt for at least the next decade.

you're going to need to offer more than that or I cannot take your posts seriously, please provide some evidence, if it is so, it is so...but.....assent that?

As with most dramatic political events.

It takes years, or even decades, before the 'true story' behind the event is disclosed to the public.

not necessarily, given the dramatic events there is a proportionality to the swift change and paradigm shift in that a huge swing as we have seen here, would render some fingerprints that drive an event like this as it happened quickly- like the 7 deaths in that protest in November when Morsi tried to smother the constitution with his own agenda.

 

[Trajan]

Israel hated the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood was the political party which won the election 1 year ago.

And was working furiously behind the scenes to destabilize the elected government and forment a military coup.

And with the help of a 1.5 billion dollar bribe from the U.S. government to the military.

The budding Egyptian democracy was squished like a bug.

I'd say Morsi did a pretty good job on his own......the military didn't put those people in the streets, they stayed out of it till like the last tahir eruption, trying to keep the general peace, and again, it reached a critical mass and they did what they had to do.

 

[Sunni Man]

Only in Egypt is a military coup not a coup

For the first time in the history of the world, a coup is not a coup. The army take over, depose and imprison the democratically elected president, suspend the constitution, arrest the usual suspects, close down television stations and mass their armour in the streets of the capital. But the word ‘coup’ does not – and cannot – cross the lips of the Blessed Barack Obama. Nor does the hopeless UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon dare to utter such an offensive word. It’s not as if Obama doesn’t know what’s going on. Snipers in Cairo killed 15 Egyptians this week from a rooftop of the very university in which Obama made his ‘reach-out’ speech to the Muslim world in 2009.

Is this reticence because millions of Egyptians demanded just such a coup – they didn’t call it that, of course – and thus became the first massed people in the world to demand a coup prior to the actual coup taking place? Is it because Obama fears that to acknowledge it’s a coup would force the US to impose sanctions on the most important Arab nation at peace with Israel? Or because the men who staged the coup might forever lose their 1.5 billion subvention from the US – rather than suffer a mere delay -- if they were told they’d actually carried out a coup.

And there is one salient fact about the events of the last 48 hours in Egypt. No one is happier – no one more satisfied nor more conscious of the correctness of his own national struggle against ‘Islamists’ and ‘terrorists’ -- than Assad. The West has been wetting itself to destroy Assad – but does absolutely nothing when the Egyptian army destroys its democratically-elected president for lining up with Assad’s armed Islamist opponents. The army called Morsi’s supporters “terrorists and fools”. Isn’t that just what Bashar calls his enemies? No wonder Assad told us yesterday that no one should use religion to gain power. Hollow laughter here -- offstage, of course.

But this doesn’t let Obama off the hook. Those Western leaders who are gently telling us that Egypt is still on the path to “democracy”, that this is an “interim” period – like the ‘interim’ Egyptian government concocted by the military – and that millions of Egyptians support the coup that isn’t a coup, have to remember that Morsi was indeed elected in a real, Western-approved election.

Israel, however, must be pleased. It knows a coup when it sees one – and it’s now back playing its familiar role as the only ‘democracy’ in the Middle East, and with the kind of neighbours it understands: military rulers. And if Egypt’s wealthy military king-makers are getting a nifty $1.5 billion dollars a year from Washington – albeit postponed -- they are certainly not going to tamper with their country’s peace treaty with Israel, however unpopular it remains with the people for whom it supposedly staged the coup-that-wasn’t.

When is a military coup not a military coup? When it happens in Egypt, apparently - Comment - Voices - The Independent