A Better Way: Tax Reform (Individual)

g5000

Diamond Member
Nov 26, 2011
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First things first. This is a complicated subject. If you have the attention span of a Tweet, please do not participate.

Secondly, this tax reform plan has nothing to do with Trump. The plan was written long before the election.

The Republican Party has created something they call "A Better Way". Under Speaker Ryan's leadership, six committees were formed in the House. Those six committees were formed to address:

1. Poverty
2. National Security
3. The Economy
4. The Constitution
5. Health Care
6. Tax Reform

You can read each committee's plan here: A Better Way

Since this topic is about the Tax Reform plan, you can go directly to it here: https://abetterway.speaker.gov/_assets/pdf/ABetterWay-Tax-PolicyPaper.pdf

As it is 30 pages long, and addresses both Individual and Corporate taxes, I am splitting this into two threads, with this one on Individual taxes first. I will touch on some of the corporate stuff, but only a little. But I must say the corporate tax scheme has a gigantic bombshell in it.

The reason I am starting this topic now is that the GOP is about to start pushing legislation for tax reform very soon, and it will be built on this Better Way plan.

So, to begin. Many of you know I have been griping about tax expenditures for years and years. I have tried to educate the pseudocons about this trillion dollar lie, and show them just how far off the Conservative reservation they are, all to no avail. They have been too long conditioned to be welfare queens when it comes to tax expenditures, having no clue they are active participants in the robbery of their own bank accounts.

As you read the Better Way tax plan, you see I am vindicated. Big time.

One of the things I have endlessly pointed out is that every tax expenditure (deduction, credit, exemption) comes out of someone else's pocket, making them no different than food stamps. Innumerate pseudocons have virulently denied this, claiming a deduction means "I get to keep more of my own money". That is a lie. Every deduction has to be made up for by higher tax rates, which means it is paid for by every taxpayer.

And we see this over and over again in A Better Way:

As the Task Force worked to develop smart reforms, we asked ourselves two questions about each policy or provision: “Will this policy reform grow our economy?” and “Is it worth raising taxes on everyone else to include this provision?”

When they talk about "provisions", they mean tax expenditures. Deductions, credits, exemptions.

First, the American people were fed up with the tax code. It was a complicated mess of multiple brackets, high rates, and special-interest provisions. As President Reagan described it, the code had become a “haven for special interests and tax manipulators, but an impossible frustration for everybody else.

More:

Problem #2: The Current Code Delivers Special Interest Subsidies and Crony Capitalism. The tax code is littered with hundreds of preferences and subsidies that pick winners and losers and create complexity. Instead of free-market competition that rewards success, our tax code directs resources to politically favored interests, creating a drag on economic growth and job creation. In fact, Washington encourages individuals and businesses to make investment decisions based not on the most promising new technologies and innovations, but instead on the promise of tax savings. Many of these tax preferences, sometimes referred to as “tax expenditures,” are special-interest giveaways that are masked as tax breaks instead of direct grants. For fiscal year 2016, such “spending” through the tax code amounts to more than $1.4 trillion, or almost three-fourths of the amount of revenue raised by the entire Federal income tax. When Washington picks winners and losers with the tax code, the American people ultimately pay higher tax rates and keep less of their hard-earned money.


The long and the short of it is that the GOP plan eliminates almost all individual tax expenditures, save two. Unfortunately, they kept the Mortgage Interest Deduction (MID), which increases the cost of your house and must be paid for with higher tax rates. However, the real estate lobby spends $110 million a year on lobbying and campaign contributions to keep the MID alive. In return, they and the banks and the homebuilders get $80 billion in returns on their investment.

Nevertheless, this is a great start. It is a massive reduction in tax expenditures.

Thank you very much. Finally, finally, finally, finally some sanity is being restored.

In return for eliminating all those tax expenditures, the tax plan reduces tax rates.

What's more:

This Blueprint will consolidate the current seven tax brackets to three brackets and will lower the top individual income tax rate to 33 percent. Going forward, these income tax brackets will be indexed for inflation.

2qk3tdk.jpg


More to come.
 
The National Taxpayer Advocate’s recommendation to Congress was simple: “Permanently repeal the AMT.” This echoed the recommendation to repeal the AMT that was included in a report on tax simplification issued by the Joint Committee on Taxation in 2001.

This Blueprint follows these recommendations and repeals the individual AMT.



They also include a Postcard Tax Return, a la Ted Cruz:

160r0gi.jpg
 
The new larger standard deduction will be $24,000 for married individuals filing jointly, $18,000 for single individuals with a child in the household, and $12,000 for other individuals. These amounts will be adjusted annually for inflation.

In addition, the Blueprint will consolidate the child credit and personal exemptions for dependents into an increased child credit of $1,500. The first $1,000 will be refundable as under current law. A non-refundable credit of $500 also will be allowed for non-child dependents.

The marriage penalty that exists in the current-law phase-out of the child credit will be eliminated, so that married couples will be able to earn up to $150,000 before their child credits start phasing out.

r8atr4.jpg
 
A better way:

Repeal the 16th amendment, abolish the IRS, cut federal spending back to the ratio prior to 1913, and Murica lives happily ever after.
 
To simplify tax filings further for middle-income families, this Blueprint reflects the elimination of all itemized deductions except the mortgage interest deduction and the charitable contribution deduction.
 
I am happy most tax expenditures are being eliminated. However, the banking, homebuilding, and real estate lobbies managed to keep the MID alive, which is disappointing.

The MID drives up the cost of housing. Your deduction is cancelled out by having to borrow more for your loan. This benefits homebuilders, bankers, and realtors. You are being robbed. The MID is a massive $80 billion a year transfer of wealth from home buyers up the food chain.

Why Now's the Time to Kill the Mortgage Interest Deduction

Proponents of the deduction argue that it's a key component to keeping home prices up.

Do you hear that? An open admission the deduction drives up the cost of housing!

As much as homebuilders argue that eliminating the deduction would hurt them, economists agree that the biggest impact would be on the highest-priced homes, with more reasonably priced real estate seeing little or no impact from getting rid of the deduction.

Homebuilders whining about losing their government tit.
 
why not just end our wars on crime, drugs, poverty, and terror to end our income tax?
We spend twice as much on tax expenditures as we do on welfare. It is ridiculous to blame the poor for our federal debt.
 
For all those pseudocons who denied and denied and denied tax expenditures don't come out of the pockets of other people:

Numerous other exemptions, deductions, and credits for individuals riddle the tax code, making it less fair for those who cannot take advantage of such provisions and more complicated for everyone. These special-interest provisions require higher tax rates to compensate for the lost revenue, thus raising taxes on others and hurting the economy by reducing the incentives to work, save, and invest.

As I've told you tards literally hundreds of times, your deductions are no different than food stamps. They are paid for by taxpayers.

And you aren't even benefiting from them as you have been led to believe. You are being robbed, and defending your own robbery!
 
What's particularly ironic about all this is that Republicans are by far the biggest offenders when it comes to inserting these "special provisions" in the tax code which has run it up to 70,000 pages.

Tax expenditures are a way to increase spending without the rubes catching on. That's why it's a GOP favorite.

But I am glad to finally see some sanity from the GOP in this plan.
 
I am happy most tax expenditures are being eliminated. However, the banking, homebuilding, and real estate lobbies managed to keep the MID alive, which is disappointing.

The MID drives up the cost of housing. Your deduction is cancelled out by having to borrow more for your loan. This benefits homebuilders, bankers, and realtors. You are being robbed. The MID is a massive $80 billion a year transfer of wealth from home buyers up the food chain.

Why Now's the Time to Kill the Mortgage Interest Deduction

Proponents of the deduction argue that it's a key component to keeping home prices up.

Do you hear that? An open admission the deduction drives up the cost of housing!

As much as homebuilders argue that eliminating the deduction would hurt them, economists agree that the biggest impact would be on the highest-priced homes, with more reasonably priced real estate seeing little or no impact from getting rid of the deduction.

Homebuilders whining about losing their government tit.
I really do not think that the real estate lobby has anything to do with the continued MID. Most homeowners would flip their shit if that free candy was taken away and most of them vote. I think that congress is somewhat adverse to touching that because of the impact it could have with the voter base.

There are a lot of other deductions that have powerful lobbies but few have the expansive visibility with the voters as does the MID.

The long and the short of it is that the GOP plan eliminates almost all individual tax expenditures, save two.
Well, it might be nit picky but that is not really the case. Child tax and earned income credit are also expenditures and they are to remain. IMHO, for the exact same reasons that the MID will remain - people whine a lot about other peoples deductions but don't you dare touch theirs.

With that said, I will believe it when I actually see it. I have no faith that the congress will actually limit their ability to pander to special interests as that is where they are all able to massively enrich themselves. It is sorely needed but as unlikely as congress legislating a pay cut for themselves.
 
I am happy most tax expenditures are being eliminated. However, the banking, homebuilding, and real estate lobbies managed to keep the MID alive, which is disappointing.

The MID drives up the cost of housing. Your deduction is cancelled out by having to borrow more for your loan. This benefits homebuilders, bankers, and realtors. You are being robbed. The MID is a massive $80 billion a year transfer of wealth from home buyers up the food chain.

Why Now's the Time to Kill the Mortgage Interest Deduction

Proponents of the deduction argue that it's a key component to keeping home prices up.

Do you hear that? An open admission the deduction drives up the cost of housing!

As much as homebuilders argue that eliminating the deduction would hurt them, economists agree that the biggest impact would be on the highest-priced homes, with more reasonably priced real estate seeing little or no impact from getting rid of the deduction.

Homebuilders whining about losing their government tit.
I really do not think that the real estate lobby has anything to do with the continued MID. Most homeowners would flip their shit if that free candy was taken away and most of them vote. I think that congress is somewhat adverse to touching that because of the impact it could have with the voter base.

There are a lot of other deductions that have powerful lobbies but few have the expansive visibility with the voters as does the MID.

I have no doubt most people would "flip their shit", as you say, if the MID was taken away. I've seen here hundreds of times. They scream like welfare queens at the mere suggestion.



The long and the short of it is that the GOP plan eliminates almost all individual tax expenditures, save two.
Well, it might be nit picky but that is not really the case. Child tax and earned income credit are also expenditures and they are to remain.

I stand corrected. I meant "itemized deductions". All are being eliminated, save two.

IMHO, for the exact same reasons that the MID will remain - people whine a lot about other peoples deductions but don't you dare touch theirs.

Of all the tax expenditures, the EITC is the only one proven to increase production. For that reason, I'm fine with it.

All tax expenditures are governmental behavioral control, and grossly tilt the playing field to the advantage of a chosen few, at the expense of everyone else.

With that said, I will believe it when I actually see it. I have no faith that the congress will actually limit their ability to pander to special interests as that is where they are all able to massively enrich themselves. It is sorely needed but as unlikely as congress legislating a pay cut for themselves.
I have a video link which supports your lack of faith, actually. I am saving it for the thread I plan on creating for the Republican corporate tax reform plan. The reality of special interests being able to force their provisions into the tax code is what finally led the Republicans to come up with a bombshell solution.

The one thing I have been saying all these years is that it does not matter what kind of tax scheme you have (Fair Tax, Flat Tax, etc) it is all meaningless if you don't ban tax expenditures first.
 
If our priority is to lower taxes; then, it cannot be real times of war sufficient to deny and disparage our Individual and civil liberty.
I have no idea what you mean. Please elaborate.
 
With Ryan/TrumpCare going down in flames, Paul Ryan will now move on to tax reform, so this topic deserves a reboot.

I will create a topic about the GOP plan for corporate tax reform in the next day or so. It's a doozy.
 
First things first. This is a complicated subject. If you have the attention span of a Tweet, please do not participate.

Secondly, this tax reform plan has nothing to do with Trump. The plan was written long before the election.

The Republican Party has created something they call "A Better Way". Under Speaker Ryan's leadership, six committees were formed in the House. Those six committees were formed to address:

1. Poverty
2. National Security
3. The Economy
4. The Constitution
5. Health Care
6. Tax Reform

You can read each committee's plan here: A Better Way

Since this topic is about the Tax Reform plan, you can go directly to it here: https://abetterway.speaker.gov/_assets/pdf/ABetterWay-Tax-PolicyPaper.pdf

As it is 30 pages long, and addresses both Individual and Corporate taxes, I am splitting this into two threads, with this one on Individual taxes first. I will touch on some of the corporate stuff, but only a little. But I must say the corporate tax scheme has a gigantic bombshell in it.

The reason I am starting this topic now is that the GOP is about to start pushing legislation for tax reform very soon, and it will be built on this Better Way plan.

So, to begin. Many of you know I have been griping about tax expenditures for years and years. I have tried to educate the pseudocons about this trillion dollar lie, and show them just how far off the Conservative reservation they are, all to no avail. They have been too long conditioned to be welfare queens when it comes to tax expenditures, having no clue they are active participants in the robbery of their own bank accounts.

As you read the Better Way tax plan, you see I am vindicated. Big time.

One of the things I have endlessly pointed out is that every tax expenditure (deduction, credit, exemption) comes out of someone else's pocket, making them no different than food stamps. Innumerate pseudocons have virulently denied this, claiming a deduction means "I get to keep more of my own money". That is a lie. Every deduction has to be made up for by higher tax rates, which means it is paid for by every taxpayer.

And we see this over and over again in A Better Way:

As the Task Force worked to develop smart reforms, we asked ourselves two questions about each policy or provision: “Will this policy reform grow our economy?” and “Is it worth raising taxes on everyone else to include this provision?”

When they talk about "provisions", they mean tax expenditures. Deductions, credits, exemptions.

First, the American people were fed up with the tax code. It was a complicated mess of multiple brackets, high rates, and special-interest provisions. As President Reagan described it, the code had become a “haven for special interests and tax manipulators, but an impossible frustration for everybody else.

More:

Problem #2: The Current Code Delivers Special Interest Subsidies and Crony Capitalism. The tax code is littered with hundreds of preferences and subsidies that pick winners and losers and create complexity. Instead of free-market competition that rewards success, our tax code directs resources to politically favored interests, creating a drag on economic growth and job creation. In fact, Washington encourages individuals and businesses to make investment decisions based not on the most promising new technologies and innovations, but instead on the promise of tax savings. Many of these tax preferences, sometimes referred to as “tax expenditures,” are special-interest giveaways that are masked as tax breaks instead of direct grants. For fiscal year 2016, such “spending” through the tax code amounts to more than $1.4 trillion, or almost three-fourths of the amount of revenue raised by the entire Federal income tax. When Washington picks winners and losers with the tax code, the American people ultimately pay higher tax rates and keep less of their hard-earned money.


The long and the short of it is that the GOP plan eliminates almost all individual tax expenditures, save two. Unfortunately, they kept the Mortgage Interest Deduction (MID), which increases the cost of your house and must be paid for with higher tax rates. However, the real estate lobby spends $110 million a year on lobbying and campaign contributions to keep the MID alive. In return, they and the banks and the homebuilders get $80 billion in returns on their investment.

Nevertheless, this is a great start. It is a massive reduction in tax expenditures.

Thank you very much. Finally, finally, finally, finally some sanity is being restored.

In return for eliminating all those tax expenditures, the tax plan reduces tax rates.

What's more:

This Blueprint will consolidate the current seven tax brackets to three brackets and will lower the top individual income tax rate to 33 percent. Going forward, these income tax brackets will be indexed for inflation.

2qk3tdk.jpg


More to come.
Damn you g5000 you are gullible.

Do you believe everything you hear/read ???

There are only two relevant principles of taxation at work here in the USA.

To wit:

1 - Democrats raise taxes on the rich.

2 - Republicans give tax cuts to the rich.

That's all you need to know.

Trump wants to get rid of the alt min tax that Jimmy Carter introduced back in 1979 so Trump can get a $31 million dollar rebate on his $151 million of income per year.

That's all he wants.

See #2 above.
 
With Ryan/TrumpCare going down in flames, Paul Ryan will now move on to tax reform, so this topic deserves a reboot.

I will create a topic about the GOP plan for corporate tax reform in the next day or so. It's a doozy.
If Ryan fokks up tax reform like he fokked up Trumpcare then don't worry, nothing in the Internal Revenue Code will change.
 

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