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I don't want the debt ceiling raised either, however, my silly grasp on reality tells me that we don't have much choice at this juncture.
And my silly grasp on reality tells me their is always a choice. We are going to have to fact the fact that we cannot indefinitely extend the debt without paying the price, and I think it would be better to face the facts now then 10 years down the road when the world refuses to let us extend the debt.
I also wonder just how bad actually refusing to borrow more money would be if we do not default on the existing debt.
I don't want the debt ceiling raised either, however, my silly grasp on reality tells me that we don't have much choice at this juncture.
And my silly grasp on reality tells me their is always a choice. We are going to have to fact the fact that we cannot indefinitely extend the debt without paying the price, and I think it would be better to face the facts now then 10 years down the road when the world refuses to let us extend the debt.
I also wonder just how bad actually refusing to borrow more money would be if we do not default on the existing debt.
Interest rates would spike because the bond market wouldn't believe that the US government would honor it's existing bonds.
The question is who wouldn't you pay? Considering that borrowing finances about a third of all spending, SS checks won't arrive, doctors and hospitals won't get paid, and money to the troops will dry up. There is no scenario under those circumstances that are good.
Not too realistic, especially where the most want cuts, but telling:
Public strongly opposes debt ceiling increase: Reuters/Ipsos | Reuters
Public strongly opposes debt ceiling increase: Reuters/Ipsos
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By Andy Sullivan
WASHINGTON | Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:23am EST
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. public overwhelmingly opposes raising the country's debt limit even though failure to do so could hurt America's international standing and push up borrowing costs, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Wednesday.
Some 71 percent of those surveyed oppose increasing the borrowing authority, the focus of a brewing political battle over federal spending. Only 18 percent support an increase
The poll underscores the tough task ahead for U.S. lawmakers as the debt nears its current ceiling of $14.3 trillion. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner last week warned that a failure to raise the borrowing limit in the coming months could lead to "catastrophic economic consequences".
Republicans, who won control of the House of Representatives in November on a promise to scale back government, hope to pair any debt-ceiling hike with a commitment from President Barack Obama to reduce long-term spending...
71%, don't get it.
71%, don't get it.
We agree on something.
I definately don't want the debt ceiling raised personally.
However, I dont want us defaulting on our debts that we have incurred either as this would destroy whats left of our economy, our nations wealth, and our nation as a whole.
.
Then you just get dollars with no value.
I don't want the debt ceiling raised either, however, my silly grasp on reality tells me that we don't have much choice at this juncture.
And my silly grasp on reality tells me their is always a choice. We are going to have to fact the fact that we cannot indefinitely extend the debt without paying the price, and I think it would be better to face the facts now then 10 years down the road when the world refuses to let us extend the debt.
I also wonder just how bad actually refusing to borrow more money would be if we do not default on the existing debt.
Interest rates would spike because the bond market wouldn't believe that the US government would honor it's existing bonds.
The question is who wouldn't you pay? Considering that borrowing finances about a third of all spending, SS checks won't arrive, doctors and hospitals won't get paid, and money to the troops will dry up. There is no scenario under those circumstances that are good.
And my silly grasp on reality tells me their is always a choice. We are going to have to fact the fact that we cannot indefinitely extend the debt without paying the price, and I think it would be better to face the facts now then 10 years down the road when the world refuses to let us extend the debt.
I also wonder just how bad actually refusing to borrow more money would be if we do not default on the existing debt.
Interest rates would spike because the bond market wouldn't believe that the US government would honor it's existing bonds.
The question is who wouldn't you pay? Considering that borrowing finances about a third of all spending, SS checks won't arrive, doctors and hospitals won't get paid, and money to the troops will dry up. There is no scenario under those circumstances that are good.
Show me a mother fucking DRASTIC cut in spending in all the areas that I believe both the left and the right will agree can sustain cuts, and then I'll have no problem raising the debt limit one last time so the blowback of default is avoided. But along with all of that, I want a comprehensive BINDING agreement that from hence forth, spending will require no further debt ceiling raise in the future.
And my silly grasp on reality tells me their is always a choice. We are going to have to fact the fact that we cannot indefinitely extend the debt without paying the price, and I think it would be better to face the facts now then 10 years down the road when the world refuses to let us extend the debt.
I also wonder just how bad actually refusing to borrow more money would be if we do not default on the existing debt.
Interest rates would spike because the bond market wouldn't believe that the US government would honor it's existing bonds.
The question is who wouldn't you pay? Considering that borrowing finances about a third of all spending, SS checks won't arrive, doctors and hospitals won't get paid, and money to the troops will dry up. There is no scenario under those circumstances that are good.
How would that be different than the current talk about downgrading the US credit rating because the bond market does not believe that the government can honor its existing bonds? The only reason that bond rates are not currently spiking is the Treasury is printing money to buy bonds, and I see no way that will not cause more problems than any potential default.
This is something that needs to be dealt with, and indiscriminately raisng the debt limit every time we get close to reaching it only delays the inevitable.
Not too realistic, especially where the most want cuts, but telling:
Public strongly opposes debt ceiling increase: Reuters/Ipsos | Reuters
Public strongly opposes debt ceiling increase: Reuters/Ipsos
*
* Twitter Tweet This
* LinkedInShare on LinkedIn
* Facebook Share on Facebook
* 5diggsdigg
Related News
* Obama approval rises as economy improves: Reuters/Ipsos poll
Wed, Jan 12 2011
* Analysis: Bond market in spotlight as budget battle looms
Mon, Jan 10 2011
* Republicans acknowledge debt limit should rise
Thu, Jan 6 2011
* Republicans acknowledge debt limit should rise
Thu, Jan 6 2011
* House budget chairman says deeper cuts ahead
Thu, Jan 6 2011
Analysis & Opinion
* Washington Extra Its genetic
* 5 retirement security threats to watch in 2011
By Andy Sullivan
WASHINGTON | Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:23am EST
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. public overwhelmingly opposes raising the country's debt limit even though failure to do so could hurt America's international standing and push up borrowing costs, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Wednesday.
Some 71 percent of those surveyed oppose increasing the borrowing authority, the focus of a brewing political battle over federal spending. Only 18 percent support an increase
The poll underscores the tough task ahead for U.S. lawmakers as the debt nears its current ceiling of $14.3 trillion. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner last week warned that a failure to raise the borrowing limit in the coming months could lead to "catastrophic economic consequences".
Republicans, who won control of the House of Representatives in November on a promise to scale back government, hope to pair any debt-ceiling hike with a commitment from President Barack Obama to reduce long-term spending...
I guess that's why Bush never put his wars on the books ..or TARP. That's why Americans bought that crap about how Iraqi oil would pay for the invasion...
Interest rates would spike because the bond market wouldn't believe that the US government would honor it's existing bonds.
The question is who wouldn't you pay? Considering that borrowing finances about a third of all spending, SS checks won't arrive, doctors and hospitals won't get paid, and money to the troops will dry up. There is no scenario under those circumstances that are good.
How would that be different than the current talk about downgrading the US credit rating because the bond market does not believe that the government can honor its existing bonds? The only reason that bond rates are not currently spiking is the Treasury is printing money to buy bonds, and I see no way that will not cause more problems than any potential default.
This is something that needs to be dealt with, and indiscriminately raisng the debt limit every time we get close to reaching it only delays the inevitable.
The difference is that suddenly not paying one third of your bills would create a massive seizure of the financial system.
There is zero evidence that Treasury rates are not spiking because of QE2. Most analysis has concluded that the affect of QE2 has interest rates 0.1%-0.3% lower than they would have been. In fact, rates have been rising since QE2 began, with the long end of the curve rising 1%, which is consistent with rising economic growth.
But you didn't answer the question. Who do you not pay? And I mean, not pay soon?
How would that be different than the current talk about downgrading the US credit rating because the bond market does not believe that the government can honor its existing bonds? The only reason that bond rates are not currently spiking is the Treasury is printing money to buy bonds, and I see no way that will not cause more problems than any potential default.
This is something that needs to be dealt with, and indiscriminately raisng the debt limit every time we get close to reaching it only delays the inevitable.
The difference is that suddenly not paying one third of your bills would create a massive seizure of the financial system.
There is zero evidence that Treasury rates are not spiking because of QE2. Most analysis has concluded that the affect of QE2 has interest rates 0.1%-0.3% lower than they would have been. In fact, rates have been rising since QE2 began, with the long end of the curve rising 1%, which is consistent with rising economic growth.
But you didn't answer the question. Who do you not pay? And I mean, not pay soon?
And not paying more a bit later is a better choice because? Paying in dollars that are not worth anything is better choice?
The situation is screwed no matter what, there are only bad alternatives.
The bond rates are rising because inflation expectations, not economic growth. But wasn't the whole purpose of QE2 to LOWER interest rates? Anyway rising interest rates are no proof of economic recovery. The unemployment numbers tell different story. So far there has been minimal recovery, and how much of that is going to be destroyed when the rates raise we can only guess.
Anyway that is my 2c on the issue.
Interest rates would spike because the bond market wouldn't believe that the US government would honor it's existing bonds.
The question is who wouldn't you pay? Considering that borrowing finances about a third of all spending, SS checks won't arrive, doctors and hospitals won't get paid, and money to the troops will dry up. There is no scenario under those circumstances that are good.
How would that be different than the current talk about downgrading the US credit rating because the bond market does not believe that the government can honor its existing bonds? The only reason that bond rates are not currently spiking is the Treasury is printing money to buy bonds, and I see no way that will not cause more problems than any potential default.
This is something that needs to be dealt with, and indiscriminately raisng the debt limit every time we get close to reaching it only delays the inevitable.
The difference is that suddenly not paying one third of your bills would create a massive seizure of the financial system.
There is zero evidence that Treasury rates are not spiking because of QE2. Most analysis has concluded that the affect of QE2 has interest rates 0.1%-0.3% lower than they would have been. In fact, rates have been rising since QE2 began, with the long end of the curve rising 1%, which is consistent with rising economic growth.
But you didn't answer the question. Who do you not pay? And I mean, not pay soon?
The difference is that suddenly not paying one third of your bills would create a massive seizure of the financial system.
There is zero evidence that Treasury rates are not spiking because of QE2. Most analysis has concluded that the affect of QE2 has interest rates 0.1%-0.3% lower than they would have been. In fact, rates have been rising since QE2 began, with the long end of the curve rising 1%, which is consistent with rising economic growth.
But you didn't answer the question. Who do you not pay? And I mean, not pay soon?
And not paying more a bit later is a better choice because? Paying in dollars that are not worth anything is better choice?
The situation is screwed no matter what, there are only bad alternatives.
The bond rates are rising because inflation expectations, not economic growth. But wasn't the whole purpose of QE2 to LOWER interest rates? Anyway rising interest rates are no proof of economic recovery. The unemployment numbers tell different story. So far there has been minimal recovery, and how much of that is going to be destroyed when the rates raise we can only guess.
Anyway that is my 2c on the issue.
It is hard to argue that a long-term solution exists without tax increases. I know that flies in the face of the dogma of the last few years, but it's realistic. We have a massive empire to maintain and big problems at home to boot.
Tariffs (best solution by far IMO), fuel tax, VAT, or just good ol'fashioned income tax increases - You are correct that if we resolve to vilify and reject all of them, we will only be postponing the problem.
Shrinking the size of government is not impossible, but quite implausible. The only contemporary POTUS to do so was Clinton, and today's cons still chastise him for it.
Either tax increases or cuts to government spending will injure a still-fragile economy, so I'm afraid that for now, deficit spending is our only option.
Why do I have to answer who not to pay when I have had the position for years that we should not be blindly pushing up the debt? You have been putting off the inevitable for years, and want to continue doing the same thing. You are the one that has to deal with the consequences of your decisions, I already am.
Why do I have to answer who not to pay when I have had the position for years that we should not be blindly pushing up the debt? You have been putting off the inevitable for years, and want to continue doing the same thing. You are the one that has to deal with the consequences of your decisions, I already am.
You have to answer because those are the consequences of what you are proposing.
Who doesn't get their social security check? Which doctors don't get paid? Which army units aren't getting their armor?
Those are all real-world consequences of not funding what is by law to be paid, not to mention instantly imposing a 9% real decline in GDP and wreaking havoc and chaos in the financial markets.
How would that be different than the current talk about downgrading the US credit rating because the bond market does not believe that the government can honor its existing bonds? The only reason that bond rates are not currently spiking is the Treasury is printing money to buy bonds, and I see no way that will not cause more problems than any potential default.
This is something that needs to be dealt with, and indiscriminately raisng the debt limit every time we get close to reaching it only delays the inevitable.
The difference is that suddenly not paying one third of your bills would create a massive seizure of the financial system.
There is zero evidence that Treasury rates are not spiking because of QE2. Most analysis has concluded that the affect of QE2 has interest rates 0.1%-0.3% lower than they would have been. In fact, rates have been rising since QE2 began, with the long end of the curve rising 1%, which is consistent with rising economic growth.
But you didn't answer the question. Who do you not pay? And I mean, not pay soon?
And not paying more a bit later is a better choice because? Paying in dollars that are not worth anything is better choice?
The situation is screwed no matter what, there are only bad alternatives.
The bond rates are rising because inflation expectations, not economic growth. But wasn't the whole purpose of QE2 to LOWER interest rates - meaning even bernanke understands that rising rates don't mean a thing? Anyway rising interest rates are no proof of economic recovery. The unemployment numbers tell different story. So far there has been minimal recovery, and how much of that is going to be destroyed when the rates raise we can only guess.
The spin seems to be lower/higher interest rates both tell a good story(Low intrerest = success of QE, rising economy due to low interest rates, high interest rates = rising economy due to high interest rates). IMO higher interest rates with no sign of recovery tell the worst possible story - stagflation. THis is especially true since the interest rates have been artificially kept low - rising interest rates may mean a new collapse of all the cards.
Anyway that is my 2c on the issue.
Why do I have to answer who not to pay when I have had the position for years that we should not be blindly pushing up the debt? You have been putting off the inevitable for years, and want to continue doing the same thing. You are the one that has to deal with the consequences of your decisions, I already am.
You have to answer because those are the consequences of what you are proposing.
Who doesn't get their social security check? Which doctors don't get paid? Which army units aren't getting their armor?
Those are all real-world consequences of not funding what is by law to be paid, not to mention instantly imposing a 9% real decline in GDP and wreaking havoc and chaos in the financial markets.
