7 states pass marriage amendments

[glockmail]

The key question is: Why. Why must it be that one adult is male and the other adult is female in order for the couple to get a marriage license? .....

Because marraige is a covenant sanctioned by God.

 

[mattskramer]

Because marraige is a covenant sanctioned by God.

Okay. So you believe that God sanctioned marriage. Look. God is a myth. Are civil marriage ceremonies really marriages? Can atheists get married?

Let us legislate from the Bible. Oh boy could I create some interesting laws that way.

 

[glockmail]

..... Look. God is a myth. .....

If so a myth held by the Founders of your country as well as the vast majority of your fellow countrymen. You live in a democracy: get over it.

 

[mattskramer]

If so a myth held by the Founders of your country as well as the vast majority of your fellow countrymen. You live in a democracy: get over it.

Many things held our nation together. The belief in God (basically a placebo) was a small factor. Cheap labor (slavery) and land (practically taken from the “Native Americans”) were two very big things that kept America strong in its youth. We live in a Republic. Get over it.

 

[glockmail]

Many things held our nation together. The belief in God (basically a placebo) was a small factor. ... .

Held? As in past tense?

Our belief in God was used as the justification for declaring independence from England (DOI, 2nd P, 1st sentence). I wouldn't call that a small thing.

 

[MissileMan]

Held? As in past tense?

Our belief in God was used as the justification for declaring independence from England (DOI, 2nd P, 1st sentence). I wouldn't call that a small thing.

Bullshit! England believed in God and was in no way trying to stop anyone in the colonies from believing in God either. Next thing you know, you'll claim the American Revolution was a holy war.

 

[glockmail]

Bullshit! England believed in God and was in no way trying to stop anyone in the colonies from believing in God either. Next thing you know, you'll claim the American Revolution was a holy war.

Temper, temper!

The King of England bastardized Christianity by claiming that he was given his authority by God. Then he claimed that the colonists did not have the same rights as the citizens of England, which could only be taxed by their elected representatives.

 

[MissileMan]

Temper, temper!

The King of England bastardized Christianity by claiming that he was given his authority by God. Then he claimed that the colonists did not have the same rights as the citizens of England, which could only be taxed by their elected representatives.

The colonies each had their own religions that weren't controlled at all by the Church of England. The American Revolution was about government, not religion.

 

[glockmail]

The colonies each had their own religions that weren't controlled at all by the Church of England. The American Revolution was about government, not religion.

**(points to signature line)** :happy2:

 

[MissileMan]

**(points to signature line)** :happy2:

**(points to post #165)**

 

[glockmail]

**(points to post #165)**

"[J]ustification for declaring independence" [not equal] "The American Revolution was about ... religion".

 

[MissileMan]

"[J]ustification for declaring independence" [not equal] "The American Revolution was about ... religion".

If you say so...but I'd say you're guilty of implausible deniability.

 

[glockmail]

If you say so...but I'd say you're guilty of implausible deniability.

I'd say you fell head first into the famous and deadly Glock-trap of assuming I said something that I did not. :happy2:

 

[MissileMan]

I'd say you fell head first into the famous and deadly Glock-trap of assuming I said something that I did not. :happy2:

Yeah, it's an assumption of enormous magnitude to equate a "belief in God" with "religion".

 

[mattskramer]

Held? As in past tense?

Our belief in God was used as the justification for declaring independence from England (DOI, 2nd P, 1st sentence). I wouldn't call that a small thing.

The American Revolution was justified by various reasons – Freedom to practice the religion of our choice, within reason, was just one of them. Another reason was for political representation.

 

[glockmail]

The American Revolution was justified by various reasons – Freedom to practice the religion of our choice, within reason, was just one of them. Another reason was for political representation.

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

The capitalization here is very important; the words are well chosen, powerful, and direct:

1. Truths are codified; obvious; known to all.
2. Man is not a man or men, but the species of Man. This simple phrase defies the authority of the King merely by nature of his birth.
3. God (the Creator) gave Men certain Rights- not some king or government.

This is the justification made to defy the authority of the King of England. The main body of the Declaration reads like a listing of crimes perpetrated by the King upon his subjects, further defining the reasons necessary for forming a new government.

 

[glockmail]

Yeah, it's an assumption of enormous magnitude to equate a "belief in God" with "religion".

As I pointed out to Matts, the Founders understood that God gave Man the authority over government. The King of England bastardized religion through the Anglican Church to assume authority over Men- an unnatural and unacceptable arrangement. There is no preference given to any specific religion, only a undeniable belief in God, and His authority over Man.

 

[MissileMan]

As I pointed out to Matts, the Founders understood that God gave Man the authority over government. The King of England bastardized religion through the Anglican Church to assume authority over Men- an unnatural and unacceptable arrangement. There is no preference given to any specific religion, only a undeniable belief in God, and His authority over Man.

The bastardization of the Anglican Church had nothing to do with the American Revolution. The members of the colonies were free to, and did, practice their religions as they saw fit and were in no way tied to the Church of England. Your statement "was the justification" is disproven quite easily by the fact that these same men designed a secular government when given the opportunity.

 

[glockmail]

The bastardization of the Anglican Church had nothing to do with the American Revolution. The members of the colonies were free to, and did, practice their religions as they saw fit and were in no way tied to the Church of England. Your statement "was the justification" is disproven quite easily by the fact that these same men designed a secular government when given the opportunity.

The bastardization of Christianity by the King of England did indeed cause the Founders to revolt, and they used the facts of the Kings usurpations, along with Man's governance by God alone, to justify their actions.

 

[mattskramer]

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

The capitalization here is very important; the words are well chosen, powerful, and direct:

1. Truths are codified; obvious; known to all.
2. Man is not a man or men, but the species of Man. This simple phrase defies the authority of the King merely by nature of his birth.
3. God (the Creator) gave Men certain Rights- not some king or government.

This is the justification made to defy the authority of the King of England. The main body of the Declaration reads like a listing of crimes perpetrated by the King upon his subjects, further defining the reasons necessary for forming a new government.

Didn’t non-Christians revolt against England? Didn’t people who were not interested in religious issues revolt against England? Weren’t there some people who simply did not like the fact that they were being severely taxed without being adequately represented?

Whatever the stated reason, it was good that the revolution was done and that we are free from England. I question the declaration of independence. Since I have my doubts about the existence of a creator, I doubt that man was endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights. Perhaps the revolutionaries did the right thing for the wrong reason. Oh well. No one is perfect.

Anyway, getting back to the notion that we should not allow gay marriage because God ordained that marriage is to be limited to couples of the opposite sex is silly. Let us create more limitations and laws based on the Bible. I bet that I could come up with some interesting rules.

Polygamy (many wives) and concubinage (a woman living with a man to whom she is not married) were regularly practiced in the Old Testament. Neither is ever condemned by the New Testament (with the questionable exceptions of I Timothy 3:2,12 and Titus 1:6). Jesus teaching about marital union in Mark 10:6-8 is no exception, since he quotes Gen. 2:24 as his authority (the man and the woman will become "one flesh"), and this text was never understood in Israel as excluding polygamy. A man could become "one flesh" with more than one woman, through the act of sexual intercourse. We know from Jewish sources that polygamy continued to be practiced within Judaism for centuries following the New Testament period. So if the Bible allowed polygamy and concubinage, why don't we?

Check out: http://www.bridges-across.org/ba/wink.htm