6000 Veterans Commited Suicide Last Year!

[Divine Wind]

North Korea ?

China has more to worry about from North Korea than us. I'm thinking either China itself or regional war in the Middle East. The Arab Spring, if it can be sustained, reduces the chances of a major war in that region of the world.

Not necessarily, it all depends on the governments that rise up to take the place of the ones that fall. New Islamic governments could rise up in Syria, Libya and Yemen and that is NOT good for us at all.

Always a possibility, but those fighting for freedom from their current governments are unlikely to trade a secular dictatorship for a religious dictatorship.

 

[High_Gravity]

China has more to worry about from North Korea than us. I'm thinking either China itself or regional war in the Middle East. The Arab Spring, if it can be sustained, reduces the chances of a major war in that region of the world.

Not necessarily, it all depends on the governments that rise up to take the place of the ones that fall. New Islamic governments could rise up in Syria, Libya and Yemen and that is NOT good for us at all.

Always a possibility, but those fighting for freedom from their current governments are unlikely to trade a secular dictatorship for a religious dictatorship.

You never know, alot of the rebels in Libya are militants with an extremist background with Al Qaeda links, the government they prop up may be even more restrictive and intolerant than Gaddafis regime.

 

[California Girl]

China has more to worry about from North Korea than us. I'm thinking either China itself or regional war in the Middle East. The Arab Spring, if it can be sustained, reduces the chances of a major war in that region of the world.

Not necessarily, it all depends on the governments that rise up to take the place of the ones that fall. New Islamic governments could rise up in Syria, Libya and Yemen and that is NOT good for us at all.

Always a possibility, but those fighting for freedom from their current governments are unlikely to trade a secular dictatorship for a religious dictatorship.

I wouldn't bet on that one.

 

[KissMy]

YouTube - ‪6000 Veterans Commited Suicide Last Year!‬‏

That's the government healthcare system for you.

 

[Divine Wind]

Not necessarily, it all depends on the governments that rise up to take the place of the ones that fall. New Islamic governments could rise up in Syria, Libya and Yemen and that is NOT good for us at all.

Always a possibility, but those fighting for freedom from their current governments are unlikely to trade a secular dictatorship for a religious dictatorship.

You never know, alot of the rebels in Libya are militants with an extremist background with Al Qaeda links, the government they prop up may be even more restrictive and intolerant than Gaddafis regime.

Libya is dicey. Egypt less so. Saudi Arabia could go sour if the current regime doesn't lighten up and move in a direction of freedom. A controlled reform is always better than anarchy because anarchy is so unpredictable.

 

[High_Gravity]

Always a possibility, but those fighting for freedom from their current governments are unlikely to trade a secular dictatorship for a religious dictatorship.

You never know, alot of the rebels in Libya are militants with an extremist background with Al Qaeda links, the government they prop up may be even more restrictive and intolerant than Gaddafis regime.

Libya is dicey. Egypt less so. Saudi Arabia could go sour if the current regime doesn't lighten up and move in a direction of freedom. A controlled reform is always better than anarchy because anarchy is so unpredictable.

The thing is from our point of view a repressive Islamic government is a bad thing, however for alot of people in the Middle East it is what they want, we have to stop looking at this from an American point of view but from the point of view of a unedcuated Muslim male in the region, I say uneducated because alot of them are in those countries. For them an Islamic regime is like saying to us free lap dances and wings at the strip club.

 

[Divine Wind]

The thing is from our point of view a repressive Islamic government is a bad thing, however for alot of people in the Middle East it is what they want, we have to stop looking at this from an American point of view but from the point of view of a unedcuated Muslim male in the region, I say uneducated because alot of them are in those countries. For them an Islamic regime is like saying to us free lap dances and wings at the strip club.

While I agree that, due to circumstances, people may favor a dictatorship over freedom, those situations are usually very dire ones. After the collapse of the Soviet Union and the turmoil that followed, some Russians openly asked for a return to communist rule simply because it was able to keep order. The same in the Balkans after Yugoslavia collapsed upon the departure of the Soviets. Some in Iraq wished for a return of Saddam when the succeeding regime couldn't keep the power and water running nor control the mayhem in the streets.

As Fareed Zakaria points out in his book, [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Future-Freedom-Illiberal-Democracy-Abroad/dp/0393047644"]The Future of Freedom[/ame], "some poor countries have become democracies. But when countries become democratic at low levels of development, their democracy usually dies....a democratic country that has a per capita income of under $1500 (in today's dollars), the regime on average had a life expectancy of just eight years. With between $1500 and $3000 it survived on average for about eighteen years. Above $6,000 it became highly resilient."

In order to survive, democracy needs a specific standard of living since people who are starving or barely surviving focus more on survival than personal rights.

 

[High_Gravity]

The thing is from our point of view a repressive Islamic government is a bad thing, however for alot of people in the Middle East it is what they want, we have to stop looking at this from an American point of view but from the point of view of a unedcuated Muslim male in the region, I say uneducated because alot of them are in those countries. For them an Islamic regime is like saying to us free lap dances and wings at the strip club.

While I agree that, due to circumstances, people may favor a dictatorship over freedom, those situations are usually very dire ones. After the collapse of the Soviet Union and the turmoil that followed, some Russians openly asked for a return to communist rule simply because it was able to keep order. The same in the Balkans after Yugoslavia collapsed upon the departure of the Soviets. Some in Iraq wished for a return of Saddam when the succeeding regime couldn't keep the power and water running nor control the mayhem in the streets.

As Fareed Zakaria points out in his book, [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Future-Freedom-Illiberal-Democracy-Abroad/dp/0393047644"]The Future of Freedom[/ame], "some poor countries have become democracies. But when countries become democratic at low levels of development, their democracy usually dies....a democratic country that has a per capita income of under $1500 (in today's dollars), the regime on average had a life expectancy of just eight years. With between $1500 and $3000 it survived on average for about eighteen years. Above $6,000 it became highly resilient."

In order to survive, democracy needs a specific standard of living since people who are starving or barely surviving focus more on survival than personal rights.

I really don't think countries like Iraq and Afghanistan are compatible with democracy because they are primitive cultures dominated by Islam, they don't understand nor want our democracy, most people there would be fine living under an Islamic theocracy. If they truly wanted a democratic state they would embrace our efforts to help them rebuild, not launch rockets and mortars at us.

 

[Divine Wind]

I really don't think countries like Iraq and Afghanistan are compatible with democracy because they are primitive cultures dominated by Islam, they don't understand nor want our democracy, most people there would be fine living under an Islamic theocracy. If they truly wanted a democratic state they would embrace our efforts to help them rebuild, not launch rockets and mortars at us.

First, there are many modern nations with citizens whose primary religion is Islam. Turkey is even a member of NATO and an associate member of the EU. Although Iran is currently run by a bunch of overzealous clerics, the majority of Iranians are middle-class moderates with an appreciation of western culture. They are ripe for becoming a democracy even if it takes a short civil war to attain it.

Most Islamic nations, however, are too poor to sustain a democracy. A few have the wealth of petro-dollars which go, disproportionately to to a ruling elite (something we're seeing in the US?), but most don't have great natural resources to exploit. They'll have to build up their economies the old-fashioned way using what few resources they have to build up infrastructure and industry.

Agreed that those who wasted their resources shooting at us are not going down the path of democracy.

 

[High_Gravity]

I really don't think countries like Iraq and Afghanistan are compatible with democracy because they are primitive cultures dominated by Islam, they don't understand nor want our democracy, most people there would be fine living under an Islamic theocracy. If they truly wanted a democratic state they would embrace our efforts to help them rebuild, not launch rockets and mortars at us.

First, there are many modern nations with citizens whose primary religion is Islam. Turkey is even a member of NATO and an associate member of the EU. Although Iran is currently run by a bunch of overzealous clerics, the majority of Iranians are middle-class moderates with an appreciation of western culture. They are ripe for becoming a democracy even if it takes a short civil war to attain it.

Most Islamic nations, however, are too poor to sustain a democracy. A few have the wealth of petro-dollars which go, disproportionately to to a ruling elite (something we're seeing in the US?), but most don't have great natural resources to exploit. They'll have to build up their economies the old-fashioned way using what few resources they have to build up infrastructure and industry.

Agreed that those who wasted their resources shooting at us are not going down the path of democracy.

Those Islamic countries like Turkey and even the UAE, Qatar etc that are modern because for the most part their citizens are educated, they have high percentages of high school graduates and alot of the Gulf Arabs come to the US and the West for university studies, so they return home with a different way of thinking. Countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan are different because a huge chunk of their populations are illiterate, backwards and uneducated and they are the feeding grounds for Islamic Militants, that is why there are so many rabid foaming at the mouth Islamic militant madrassas preaching hate in Pakistan and Afghanistan, the people don't know better. Countries like Turkey and the UAE don't have that because the people are more educated thus they can see through the bullshit of a lying through the mouth imam.

 

[bill5]

So......getting back to the military suicides topic.....

 

[Divine Wind]

Those Islamic countries like Turkey and even the UAE, Qatar etc that are modern because for the most part their citizens are educated, they have high percentages of high school graduates and alot of the Gulf Arabs come to the US and the West for university studies, so they return home with a different way of thinking. Countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan are different because a huge chunk of their populations are illiterate, backwards and uneducated and they are the feeding grounds for Islamic Militants, that is why there are so many rabid foaming at the mouth Islamic militant madrassas preaching hate in Pakistan and Afghanistan, the people don't know better. Countries like Turkey and the UAE don't have that because the people are more educated thus they can see through the bullshit of a lying through the mouth imam.

Agreed on the value of education. The same goes for infrastructure and the aforementioned per capita income. Obviously some people, in order to better subjugate the inhabitants in those countries, would prefer to destroy schools and kill educators in order to keep the inhabitants ignorant. During the times of slavery in the United States it was against the law to teach slaves how to read for exactly the same reason. This is why educating the population in these parts of the world is so important.

 

[High_Gravity]

Those Islamic countries like Turkey and even the UAE, Qatar etc that are modern because for the most part their citizens are educated, they have high percentages of high school graduates and alot of the Gulf Arabs come to the US and the West for university studies, so they return home with a different way of thinking. Countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan are different because a huge chunk of their populations are illiterate, backwards and uneducated and they are the feeding grounds for Islamic Militants, that is why there are so many rabid foaming at the mouth Islamic militant madrassas preaching hate in Pakistan and Afghanistan, the people don't know better. Countries like Turkey and the UAE don't have that because the people are more educated thus they can see through the bullshit of a lying through the mouth imam.

Agreed on the value of education. The same goes for infrastructure and the aforementioned per capita income. Obviously some people, in order to better subjugate the inhabitants in those countries, would prefer to destroy schools and kill educators in order to keep the inhabitants ignorant. During the times of slavery in the United States it was against the law to teach slaves how to read for exactly the same reason. This is why educating the population in these parts of the world is so important.

Yup in Iraq teachers and Doctors are being targetted by insurgents for the same reasons as well, these fuck heads know that people that know how to think for themselves are alot less likely to buy in to their bullshit rhetoric and agenda.

 

[Caroljo]

Not necessarily, it all depends on the governments that rise up to take the place of the ones that fall. New Islamic governments could rise up in Syria, Libya and Yemen and that is NOT good for us at all.

Always a possibility, but those fighting for freedom from their current governments are unlikely to trade a secular dictatorship for a religious dictatorship.

You never know, alot of the rebels in Libya are militants with an extremist background with Al Qaeda links, the government they prop up may be even more restrictive and intolerant than Gaddafis regime.

Yup...and we're helping them!

 

[theHawk]

The right thinks it not enough so they will vote against raising the debt limit which will cause these numbers to rise

Yea, I am sure people really care about a vote against raising the debt limit, which by the way failed since the debt ceiling was raised successfully.

But don't let that little factoid prevent you from being the biggest moron on this site.


Of course its never entered into your pea-sized mind that if people are so upset with the economy that leads them to suicide you might want to actually point "blame" at the people in charge - Democrats.

 

[bill5]

So......getting back to the military suicides topic.....

 

[Divine Wind]

Always a possibility, but those fighting for freedom from their current governments are unlikely to trade a secular dictatorship for a religious dictatorship.

You never know, alot of the rebels in Libya are militants with an extremist background with Al Qaeda links, the government they prop up may be even more restrictive and intolerant than Gaddafis regime.

Yup...and we're helping them!

We helped the commies fight the fascists in WWII. We supported dictators to fight Marxism in South and Central America. It's not a nice choice, but it's the better choice. There are terrorist elements among the Libyan rebels, but the Libyan rebels are not all terrorists. Most just want to be free of Gadhaffi. It's a step in the right direction. Our part is minimal since we're busy elsewhere. This is mostly a French and English support operation.

 

[uscitizen]

Sounds like the arguments about our early Vietnam involvement.

 

[Caroljo]

You never know, alot of the rebels in Libya are militants with an extremist background with Al Qaeda links, the government they prop up may be even more restrictive and intolerant than Gaddafis regime.

Yup...and we're helping them!

We helped the commies fight the fascists in WWII. We supported dictators to fight Marxism in South and Central America. It's not a nice choice, but it's the better choice. There are terrorist elements among the Libyan rebels, but the Libyan rebels are not all terrorists. Most just want to be free of Gadhaffi. It's a step in the right direction. Our part is minimal since we're busy elsewhere. This is mostly a French and English support operation.

Not minimal enough since we have some military fighting on the ground, which Obama lied about. But that's for another time....
We just have our soldiers spread out so thin no wonder so many come back with problems!

 

[High_Gravity]

You never know, alot of the rebels in Libya are militants with an extremist background with Al Qaeda links, the government they prop up may be even more restrictive and intolerant than Gaddafis regime.

Yup...and we're helping them!

We helped the commies fight the fascists in WWII. We supported dictators to fight Marxism in South and Central America. It's not a nice choice, but it's the better choice. There are terrorist elements among the Libyan rebels, but the Libyan rebels are not all terrorists. Most just want to be free of Gadhaffi. It's a step in the right direction. Our part is minimal since we're busy elsewhere. This is mostly a French and English support operation.

I personally wanted to sit this one out, we are already in 2 other conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan not to mention we pretty much came to an agreement with Gaddafi before this all happened and removed Libya from the state terrorism list.