Your Constitution.

[BONDI BOY]

One of the great rights of the U.S. constitution is your freedom of speach clause. So if the main purpose of the ocupation is to bring about a free and democratic society in Iraq then why has the U.S. banned the al-Hawza newspaper, isnt this aplying double standards and setting a bad example of democracy for the people of Iraq.

 

[kcmcdonald]

because this paper is killing american and killing those who would cooperate with the americans. Freedom of speach is a right given to those who can use it. The US would shut down a newspaper in a secound if it advocated killing the Bush Admin. Freedom of speach does not permit all speach.

 

[Hobbit]

I can't remember who made this quote, but I'm going to use it anyway.

"Freedom is the right to be wrong, not to do wrong."

Any constitutional freedom can be revoked as long as it is done through due process of law.

 

[AtlantaWalter]

Originally posted by BONDI BOY
One of the great rights of the U.S. constitution is your freedom of speach clause. So if the main purpose of the ocupation is to bring about a free and democratic society in Iraq then why has the U.S. banned a newspaper in Iraq, isnt this aplying double standards and setting a bad example of democracy for the people of Iraq.

We'll give them freedom of speech like we gave it to postwar Germany.You can say whatever you want as long as it agrees with what we say the history books should say, regardless of the truth. I think the following article demonstrates the democratic freedom of speech Germans enjoy:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n4p-2_Toben.html


German Court Sentences Australian Holocaust Skeptic [Fredrick Töben]
Dr. Töben Free After Seven Months In Custody
Dr. Fredrick Töben, an Australian scholar and educator, is free after seven months in German prison for having disputed Holocaust extermination allegations. He was taken into custody in Mannheim on April 8, 1999, and detained, without bail, until his trial in November. Töben, 55, is a leading Holocaust revisionist writer and publicist in Australia, where he founded and (until his arrest) directed the Adelaide Institute, an important revisionist research and publishing center.

At the conclusion of the three-day trial on November 10, 1999, a Mannheim district court found Töben guilty on charges of incitement to racial hatred, insulting the memory of the dead, and public denial of genocide, because he had disputed Holocaust extermination claims in writings sent to persons in Germany. Presiding Judge Klaus Kern said that there is no doubt that Töben is guilty of "denying the Holocaust," and that because there is no sign that he would relent his views and activities, a prison sentence was required. The court then sentenced him to ten months imprisonment.




Merely voicing one's opinion against the Holohoax is reason for incarceration in Germany!!! Are they so afraid that the truth may come out that they have to make it against the law to have open debate? Good damned thing we gave them democracy; I hope we do better with the Iraqis.

 

[BONDI BOY]

Originally posted by kcmcdonald
because this paper is killing american and killing those who would cooperate with the americans. Freedom of speach is a right given to those who can use it. The US would shut down a newspaper in a secound if it advocated killing the Bush Admin. Freedom of speach does not permit all speach.

Oh realy. The K.K.K. have also killed many Americans, yet they are still able to exercise there constitutional rights. They continue to spurt out ignorant and harmfull propaganda.
Or is there rubish o.k.

 

[BONDI BOY]

Originally posted by Hobbit
I can't remember who made this quote, but I'm going to use it anyway.

"Freedom is the right to be wrong, not to do wrong."

Any constitutional freedom can be revoked as long as it is done through due process of law.

I hope your not suggesting due process be used to remove your right to freedom of speach.

 

[sitarro]

You're right BondiBoy ,
The coalition shouldn't have shutdown the paper . Instead I would have rather seen an accidental explosion that would have accidentally flattened the building , and make it look like Osama did it . That would have been much better .

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by BONDI BOY
I hope your not suggesting due process be used to remove your right to freedom of speach.

Bondi, let’s clear up some misunderstandings you have about the nature of the US Constitution.

“We the People” applies to those under US legal jurisdiction only. The founders were very much aware of the realities of foreign policy, and by no means had written into law that hostile foreign powers should be granted the same rights guaranteed to a US citizen living in our borders.

The USA does not recognize a 1st Amendment right to Iraqi supporters of Al-Sadr’s militia to assemble, or publish to incite, nor carry arms per the second amendment and shoot dead nine US citizen soldiers.

Not even the ACLU can support this, being the American Civil Liberties Union.

Oh realy. The K.K.K. have also killed many Americans, yet they are still able to exercise there constitutional rights. They continue to spurt out ignorant and harmfull propaganda.
Or is there rubish o.k.

You have watched far too many American movies or seem to think that regulating hate speech is a wise policy for government. In any case I’m happy to say any fool can still make a fool of himself, here in America.

And what is it with the K.K.K. and foreign perceptions? Does the K.K.K. even have a website link these days?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by BONDI BOY
One of the great rights of the U.S. constitution is your freedom of speach clause.

Now please tell me how OUR constitution applies to Iraq during a time of war.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by BONDI BOY
I hope your not suggesting due process be used to remove your right to freedom of speach.

Due process has always been used to remove violent speech. Contrary to your opinion, the KKK does not have the right to say whatever they want. The courts have stated that some of their actions are not protected by the first ammendment.

 

[Hobbit]

There are also anti-obscenity laws that prevent certain harmful types of speech from being said. You are also not allowed your freedom of speech to endanger others, such as telling someone to kill someone else or yell 'fire' in a crowded theater.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

Those are good points. How could the Constitution apply in those cases when it's not even happening in the USA? That makes no sense. Also, there are limits to it (ever heard of libel? The example about yelling 'fire' in a theater is a classic example) even in this country.

 

[OCA]

There is no freedom of speech in a combat zone period! End of story

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Hobbit
I can't remember who made this quote, but I'm going to use it anyway.

"Freedom is the right to be wrong, not to do wrong."

Any constitutional freedom can be revoked as long as it is done through due process of law.

Prove it.

 

[Hobbit]

What do you want, more examples?

Ordering somebody to kill somebody else is harmful, and those people can be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit murder, revoking their freedom of speech.

People whose religious beliefs clash with previously established laws (such as a cult around here that claimed smoking pot was part of their religion or when Muslims decide that their religion tells them to kill people) are denied their freedom to religion, as it is seen as harmful to others.

Freedom of the press can be revoked when the press attempts to reveal classified information. Remember the who Geraldo thing?

Freedom to assemble can be revoked is those assembled violate any laws or are occupying a piece of land reserved for another purpose or if they assemble on private property.

The right to petition can be revoked if your petitioning tactics are deemed "harrassment."

That takes care of the first ammendment. Let's continue.

Your right to bear arms is revoked if you are ever convicted of a felony.

Ammendment 3 includes a "but in a manner to be prescribed by law" clause.

Your right against search and seziures is revoked by search warrants or if your house is a crime scene, along with 'probable cause' by police. Unreasonable is a highly subjective term.

Double Jeapordy can be violated if it is deemed that there was no 'jeapordy' in the first trial (trial was rigged, etc.), and the Grand Jury process is left out of military court.

There have been several revocations of speedy trial and trial in the jurisdiction in which it was committed.

Jury trials for matters greater than $25 have been bypassed by settlements all the time.

Excessive, cruel, and unusual are all subjective. Many argue that they're violated on a daily basis.

Ammendment 9 is rather vague, and many argue that these rights have been violated. Right to privacy is one such right, and is violated if you are on suicide watch or in prison.

The U.S. has taken powers from the states through legal means on many points. The fact that the U.S. has supreme command over the military is one of these.

Ok, I've gone through the Bill of Rights and given examples of how every one can be violated by due process. Shall I continue about how the government uses prison 'slave labor' or how convicted felons have no right to vote. Maybe I should include how women are discluded from front line military service, despite the women's sufferage ammendment. These are rights, but when you use those rights to be a danger to others, they are revoked...by due process of law.

 

[NewGuy]

You still have not proved how a Constitutional right may be taken away. Forget your examples of lower level law. Nothing supercedes the Constitution. Prove Constitutionally, that a Constitutional right may be suspended.

That is all I ask.

 

[Hobbit]

Ok, another quick example. The constitution gives you the, now follow me here, CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to bear arms. If you commit a felony in this country, you are no longer allowed to own a weapon of any kind unless a court deems that it is a necessary tool for your everyday life. Thus your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to bear arms has been indefinitely revoked. I mean, do I need to go find a convicted felon so he can tell you that he no longer has the right to bear arms or vote or do I have to track down and quote the statutes.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Hobbit
Ok, another quick example. The constitution gives you the, now follow me here, CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to bear arms. If you commit a felony in this country, you are no longer allowed to own a weapon of any kind unless a court deems that it is a necessary tool for your everyday life. Thus your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to bear arms has been indefinitely revoked. I mean, do I need to go find a convicted felon so he can tell you that he no longer has the right to bear arms or vote or do I have to track down and quote the statutes.

You still didn't do it. That is lower level superceding higher. That is illegal.

Follow the bouncing ball:

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

This means that the Constitution cannot be used against its self to deny rights.

The Constitution also claims to be the highest authority. Where do you see it claiming a right can be taken away?

 

[Hobbit]

Have you never heard the "due process of law" clause in the Constitution? Go get an education.

Now, you're saying it's illegal for a lower court to override the Constitution, but the court is not overriding the constitution. It's using, here's that clause again, due process of law to revoke an abused Constitutional right. The fact that this happens EVERY DAY seems to have escaped you. Go find a convict and ask him if he can vote or own a gun. I guarantee you the answer will be 'no.'

You also may or may not have heard of press agents being imprisoned for failure to reveal sources. A right to conceal sources falls under freedom of the press, since it aids them in their job. However, if the people have extreme interest in knowing the identity of the person, e.g. person is a witness to a crime, the freedom of the press can be revoked and the reporter can be compelled to reveal the identity of the source.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Hobbit
Have you never heard the "due process of law" clause in the Constitution? Go get an education.

Educate me. Show me the text in the Constitution about this "due process of law" overriding Constitutional authority.

You also may or may not have heard of press agents being imprisoned for failure to reveal sources. A right to conceal sources falls under freedom of the press, since it aids them in their job. However, if the people have extreme interest in knowing the identity of the person, e.g. person is a witness to a crime, the freedom of the press can be revoked and the reporter can be compelled to reveal the identity of the source. [/B]

This doesn't prove anything is constitutional. You are grasping at straws.

Again, show me this "due process of law" you hinge everything on.