You want to see real CHAOS? How about an electoral college tie - 269 to 269

[Vrenn]

And unless they change the rules. Any one member of the house can unseat the speaker of the house.
And until a new speaker is elected, no business can be conducted other than that needed to elect a speaker.

Don't you just love it when the House is taken over by the insane asylum residents?

 

[postman]

Counting electoral votes in the Senate doesn't give the VP a vote in the electoral college.

Article I, Section 3, Clause 4:

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

The constitution is ambiguous on that point.

And there's only 2 weeks to get a court to rule on it before the VP pick of the senate becomes acting president.

 

[Vrenn]

Article I, Section 3, Clause 4:

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

The constitution is ambiguous on that point.

And there's only 2 weeks to get a court to rule on it before the VP pick of the senate becomes acting president.

And the Loons may deliver us from chaos. Imagine, a President Walz? Or how about the nightmare of a President Vance. It may be time to move back the the cave.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It absolutely does. The house can't conduct any business without a speaker of the house.

The 12th Amendment doesn't mention the Speaker, it mentions the states.

The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote;

Are you under the impression that a Democrat member of the House can unseat a Republican Speaker and force the Republicans to pick a new one?

Or is your scenario a Republican House member unseating the Speaker before
a vote for President?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Article I, Section 3, Clause 4:

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

The constitution is ambiguous on that point.

And there's only 2 weeks to get a court to rule on it before the VP pick of the senate becomes acting president.

No, it is not ambiguous on the fact that a VP can break a Senate tie but not an Electoral College tie.

Or that the House delegations vote to pick the President, not the VP.

 

[martybegan]

A better term would be House delegations from each state.

For example, Kentucky has all Republicans except for one House seat. The vote would be for Trump. The same for the state of Tennessee, where only one Representative is Democrat. They would also vote for Trump.

Good point, it could be confusing if at the State level the legislature is also called a House.

 

[Kondor3]

What I didn't see was. If the there is a tie in the Senate for VP then who breaks the tie as there would be no sitting VP?

Just leave the position vacant and if something happens to POTUS the leader of the House takes over?

My guess is, if the Vice President is ineligible to serve as the tie-breaker, that the President Pro Temp of the Senate assumes the tie-breaker role...

 

[Auld Phart]

Don't you just love it when the House is taken over by the insane asylum residents?

we saw that in 2007, and again in 2019

 

[CrazyTrader55]

Maybe not. A read of the constitution says

Article I, Section 3, Clause 4:

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

If the count is 269 to 269 (equally divided) the VP could invoke the constitutional clause and cast the deciding vote.

And there would only be 2 weeks to prove different.

That's not the way it works.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, it is not ambiguous on the fact that a VP can break a Senate tie but not an Electoral College tie.

This is correct - a 269-269 EC tie is not broken by the VP.
The Constitution has a procedure for addressing a non-majority result in the EC and the VP has nothing to do with it.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My guess is, if the Vice President is ineligible to serve as the tie-breaker, that the President Pro Temp of the Senate assumes the tie-breaker role...

No. the President pro-tempore is an elected Senator and has their own vote, not another tiebreaker.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Article I, Section 3, Clause 4:

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

The constitution is ambiguous on that point.

And there's only 2 weeks to get a court to rule on it before the VP pick of the senate becomes acting president.

You need to get familiar with the 12th amendment.

 

[CowboyTed]

Article I, Section 3, Clause 4:

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

The constitution is ambiguous on that point.

And there's only 2 weeks to get a court to rule on it before the VP pick of the senate becomes acting president.

What is ambiguous?

Senate tied, ie 50 -50... Then President of the Senate get vote...

 

[postman]

Are you under the impression that a Democrat member of the House can unseat a Republican Speaker and force the Republicans to pick a new one?

Or is your scenario a Republican House member unseating the Speaker before
a vote for President?

Any member of the house can

How a speaker of the House can be ousted with a 'motion to vacate'

Speaker Kevin McCarthy made concessions to the far right to get his job, including changing the rules to allow any member of Congress to force a vote to remove him.

www.nbcnews.com

How a speaker of the House can be ousted with a 'motion to vacate'

One was a rule change to allow just a single member to try to force him from office.

Under the new House rules passed Monday, only one member of Congress — Democrat or Republican — is needed to bring a "motion to vacate," which forces a vote on removing the speaker. That would need only a simple majority of the House to pass to oust McCarthy.

 

[CowboyTed]

This is correct - a 269-269 EC tie is not broken by the VP.
The Constitution has a procedure for addressing a non-majority result in the EC and the VP has nothing to do with it.

Don't think so...

In case of a tie,
the new Congress coming in votes on who is President (amount top 3)
the new Senate selects the VP from top 2. IF there is a tie then the President VP breaks the tie. The Senate convenes on the 3rd of Jan and Old admin still in charge.

That is how I understand it...


The bookies have it as a Democrat House and a GOP Senate...

This would mean Harris and JD Vance as the President and VP..

 

[JohnDB]

Wisconsin is going to break that tie....especially when it falls for Trump along with PA

 

[Auld Phart]

What is ambiguous?

Senate tied, ie 50 -50... Then President of the Senate get vote...

Senate tied, ie 50 -50...

no, 25-25

and what are the odds it will be a tie?

Republicans as a rule carry more states than Democrats.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Please don't post unless you know what you are talking about.
Nebraska has 5 electoral votes.

How Many Electoral College Votes Does Each U.S. State Have? | Britannica

Every U.S. presidential election is determined by the electoral college. Find out how many votes each state has.

www.britannica.com

Ignore him. I did a while ago.

My computer stopped crying and needing a diaper change.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Don't think so...

In the case of a 26-269 tie. the election of the President goes to the house, and the election of the VP goes to the senate.
Thus:
A 269-269 EC tie is not broken by the VP.
The Constitution has a procedure for addressing a non-majority result in the EC and the VP has nothing to do with it.

In case of a tie,
the new Congress coming in votes on who is President (amount top 3)
the new Senate selects the VP from top 2. IF there is a tie then the President VP breaks the tie. The Senate convenes on the 3rd of Jan and Old admin still in charge.
That is how I understand it...

Right.
the VP doe snot break the 269-269 tie.
Just like I said.

The bookies have it as a Democrat House and a GOP Senate..
This would mean Harris and JD Vance as the President and VP..

Probably not.
The house as whole does not vote for President -- each state delegation gets 1 vote, and 26 votes wins.
Last I looked, 30 states have a GOP majority among their house members.

 

[postman]

No, it is not ambiguous on the fact that a VP can break a Senate tie but not an Electoral College tie.

Or that the House delegations vote to pick the President, not the VP.

That's not what the text of the Constitution says.

12th Amendment
the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;

Article I
The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.