Zone1 YHWH(Jehovah)

[ding]

I'm not sure which prophesies you refer to but everything we know about YHWH comes from YHWH. The ancient Israelites didn't believe there was only one god, that belief only came much, much later.

No. It was fully adopted until later. It began when polytheism was the dominant belief. It's really no different than any new belief in that regard.

 

[BS Filter]

Yes because satan Fathers lies.

Watchtower heresies and lies, 1914, 1935, 1975, blood transfusions. Years ago the organization forbid organ transplants, then one day they changed their mind. Gee, I guess God changed His mind. Oh, just one problem with that. God doesn't change his mind. Too bad for the folks who were told God was against organization transplants. What if God changes His mind about blood transfusions?

 

[BS Filter]

What didnt you understand when God said--I am YHWH(Jehovah) beside --ME-- there is no other God--Me not we.

No problem. I believe in one God. Jesus said: "Before Abraham was, I Am". Father, Son, Holy Spirit. One.

 

[BS Filter]

This is only 12 minutes. This poor lady. You can see the anguish. Thank God she got out.

 

[zaangalewa]

I'm not sure which prophesies you refer to but everything we know about YHWH comes from YHWH. The ancient Israelites didn't believe there was only one god, that belief only came much, much later.

Ever heard anything from pharao Akhenaten? His monotheism meant also monogamy and equality of women. Only because monogamy and equality of women are still not realized worldwide this not means monotheism, monogamy and equality of women are a wrong inspiration from god in Akhenaten and Nefertiti nearly 3500 years ago.

 

[alang1216]

No. It was fully adopted until later. It began when polytheism was the dominant belief. It's really no different than any new belief in that regard.

I don't follow you. Did you drop a word or two?

 

[ding]

I don't follow you. Did you drop a word or two?

Just an apostrophe and an "n" and a "t"

You aren't the first person to argue this. It's a silly argument to argue the Hebrews weren't monotheists.

 

[alang1216]

Just an apostrophe and an "n" and a "t"

You aren't the first person to argue this. It's a silly argument to argue the Hebrews weren't monotheists.

You mean besides the fact there's no evidence they were?

 

[ding]

You mean besides the fact there's no evidence they were?

You mean besides the OT.

 

[alang1216]

You mean besides the OT.

The book where it says "you will have no other gods before me"?

 

[alang1216]

Just an apostrophe and an "n" and a "t"

You aren't the first person to argue this. It's a silly argument to argue the Hebrews weren't monotheists.

Talk to an archeologist. Early Jews often had multiple shrines in their homes.

 

[zaangalewa]

You mean besides the fact there's no evidence they were?

One moment - about what do you speak here? That Hebrews = Jews do not exist? The Jews are the "oldest" people of the world who follow continiously their traditions since thousands of years. All other people in the world are following much younger traditions and have much more difficulties to be able to say who had been their cultural ancestors some thousand years ago.

 

[zaangalewa]

Talk to an archeologist. Early Jews often had multiple shrines in their homes.

So what? Hindu are a whole universe of different religions and gods. But they say their gods are only manifestations of only one god. And which kind of shrines? A "shrine" with the US-American flag for example not means who has such a shrine is not a Christian. And if someone has a rabbit's foot - on the "pagan" reason to be able to ban misfortune - then this means only that someone is superstitious and not that he is not a monotheist.

 

[zaangalewa]

The book where it says "you will have no other gods before me"?

You do not understand what's written there. From my point of view the most modern innovations of this tradition which is written there means that it exist three results of logic (or mathematics): "true", "false" and "not knowable". And it means it makes not a big sense to ask whether god exists or not exists. Even if he should not exist now in this second then he will perhaps create himselve in five seconds and has existed since ever. We are creation - god is creator. What was "before" the big bang? Nothing - not even a "before"! But how was god able to make everything - also all "gods" whatever this is - out of this nothing? The basic problem in this context is: Why is something at all and not only nothing? From all things which I am able to believe and not to believe in whatever life on whatever place and time: It is impossible for me to believe that such a gigantic universe exists all around us and this all makes not any sense. Without this gigantic universe we could not live. But it is not god - god is more - much more.

 

[Red Front]

No problem. I believe in one God. Jesus said: "Before Abraham was, I Am". Father, Son, Holy Spirit. One.

If you're an Evangelical Christian skip this post, don't read it, it will strip you of your cherished delusions about YHWH and of course, that would be a tragedy for you, due to your indifference to the facts. I would suggest you place me on ignore.

For the truth-seekers, read on. BS filter needs to fix or replace his filter. Let's read his "proof-text" in context:

(8:53) " 'Surely you are not greater than our father Abraham, who died?' ... (54) Jesus answered, 'If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, "He is our God"; (55) and you have not come to know him, but I know him; and if I say that I do not know him I shall be a liar like you, but I do know him, and keep his word. (56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it and was glad.' (57) The Jews therefore said to him, 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?' (58) Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.' (59) Therefore they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple." - John 8:53-59

Some Trinitarians, like "BS filter", claim that Jesus was declaring himself to be YHWH because he said "I AM" ("ego eimi" in the original NT Greek) in John 8:58.

Their reasoning goes like this:

Exodus 3:14 in some English Bible translations has YHWH revealing himself as "I AM WHO I AM" and "I AM." So, they say, Jesus' statement at John 8:58 shows him revealing himself by the same exclusive title (name? description?) as YHWH ("I AM" at Exodus 3:14) and, therefore, he is literally, ontologically, YHWH!

Furthermore, some of these Trinitarians say, the Jews understood perfectly that Jesus was claiming to be YHWH when he used those two words because they immediately took up stones to kill him. But these Jews had already decided beforehand to kill Jesus (John 7:1, 25). They needed no further incentives. Nothing that Jesus said or did at this point would have made any difference to them.

If the Jews had really understood the phrase "I AM" (ego eimi) to mean the speaker was claiming to be YHWH and that they should therefore kill him, they would have immediately stoned Jesus at John 8:24 or :28. (The actual Greek in the ancient Bible manuscripts is identical to John 8:58, ego eimi, but many English Bible translations properly add "he" so that it can be understood as "I am he" rather than "I AM", in English.)

We know that even his disciples didn't believe Jesus was God simply because he said ego eimi, for he identified himself to them with these same words at John 6:20 (usually rendered into English as "It is I"), and their reaction was certainly not that of those who had come into the presence of God! You can see the parallel of that event in John's gospel in Matt. 14:27. Did they consider Jesus YHWH there? No.

The words ego eimi formed a phrase that was in very common use by first-century Christians and Jews and in New Testament scriptures. It was certainly not understood (by Jews or Christians) as declaring one's Godhood. If it could have been understood that way, we can be sure the Jews would have never applied it to themselves (as they did so frequently)!

Notice, for example, how the former blind man (John 9:9) actually identifies himself by saying "ego eimi," but none of the other Jews present, even for a moment, understood him to be claiming to be YHWH!

And Jesus earlier ( in John 6:20 mentioned above) clearly identified himself by saying to his frightened disciples: ego eimi. None of his disciples considered that to mean that Jesus was claiming to be God. In fact, most trinitarian-translated Bibles render Jesus’ words identifying himself here as “It is I.” E.g., ASV; AMP; CJB; DARBY; DRA; ESV; GNT; GNV; HCSB; ISV; JB; KJV; KJ21; TLB; MEV; MLB; MOUNCE; NAB; NASB; NCV; NEB; NET; NIV; NKJV; NLV; NRSV; REB; RSV; WEB; and WE.

It is simply impossible that the Jews would say Jesus was claiming to be the Almighty God. It is virtually certain, instead, that one of three things was meant by the phrase "before Abraham came into being ego eimi" spoken by Jesus at John 8:58:


(1) "Even before Abraham was born, I was (the Christ)."

(2) "I existed before Abraham was born."("I was"; "I existed"; "I have been")

(3) "I came into existence before Abraham was even born."


Why Stones?

As for the charge that the Jews were going to stone him because he claimed to be God, we should be aware that the Jews stoned people for many offenses. For example, a person pretending to be a "wizard" was to be stoned to death according to the Law (Lev. 20:27 - KJV, RSV, ASV, LB). Today's Dictionary of the Bible, 1982 ed., tells us:

"Wizard, a pretender to supernatural knowledge and power .... such a one was forbidden on pain of death to practice his deceptions ... Lev. 20:26, 27." - p. 654.

We also know that some of the Jews wanted Jesus killed for blasphemy because he admitted to being the Messiah (Christ) - see Matt 26:59-68 and footnotes for Matt 26:65 and Luke 22:71 in The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan Publ., 1985.

"But powerful forces in the Jewish congregation, jealous of his popularity, incensed by his denunciation of some of them, and bitterly critical of his disregard for formalism, his willingness to violate some of the minor laws of the Jews, and his heretical claim that he was the Son of God, repudiated him, conspired to kill him, saw him crucified, and after his death, persecuted his followers." - The Portable World Bible, Viking Press, p. 230.

It was even forbidden for others to say that Jesus was the Messiah - John 9:22. And, in fact, that was obviously why Stephen was stoned to death.

In Acts 7:55-58, Stephen looked up into heaven "and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and he said, 'Behold, I see the heavens opened and the Son of man [synonymous with the Messiah, not God] standing at the right hand of God.' But they [the Jews] ... cast him out of the city, and stoned him." - RSV.

Stephen was stoned, not because he claimed to be God, nor because he claimed Jesus was God (quite the contrary, in fact, as his quoted statement clearly shows: Jesus "standing at the right hand of God") but because he was proclaiming Jesus to be the Messiah (Christ)! See The NIV Study Bible footnotes for Acts 7:56 and Mk 8:31.


The New American Bible, St. Joseph edition, tells us in a footnote for Acts 7:55 -

"Stephen affirms to the Sanhedrin that the prophecy Jesus made before them has been fulfilled (Mk 14:62)."

And Mk 14:61-64 shows Jesus declaring he is the Christ and that the Jews will see him (the son of man) at the right hand of God. This "blasphemy" of claiming to be the Messiah (whom the Jews never considered to be God) caused the Jews to condemn Jesus to death - see footnotes for Mk 14:61, 63 in The NIV Study Bible. Also, the trinitarian publican, The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible also tells us about the Messiah expected by the Jews at this time:

"The figure of the 'Son of Man' ... was, moreover, in accord with ... that of a pre-existent, heavenly angelic being who, at the end time, will appear at the side of God as judge of the world." - p. 364, Vol. 3, Abingdon Press, 1962.


Therefore, when Jesus claimed, at John 8:58, to have lived long before his first-century human existence, the Jews could have perceived him as a false prophet, or a self-proclaimed "wizard," or, more likely, as one claiming to be the Christ or Messiah (the Son of Man) and tried to stone him because of that.

​

"I Was the Christ"

The Gospel writers have clearly shown Jesus applying the term ego eimi to himself and meaning "I am the Christ."

Mark 13:6 shows Jesus saying, "I am he [literally just ego eimi alone, 'I AM']" - What did he mean there in Mark's gospel? He was conveying that he is the Christ, not YHWH GOD. The parallel account at Luke 21:8 agrees.

The other parallel account by Matthew shows what Jesus actually meant by the "absolute" ego eimi in those parallel accounts of Mark and Luke:


"I am the Messiah" - Matt. 24:5 - NEB.


So we see Jesus using the "absolute" ego eimi at Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:8 (see any interlinear). And Matthew explains that Jesus means "I am the Messiah"!

Also see John 8:24, Living Bible - "I am the Messiah,"

The Living Bible is a popular, Evangelical, Trinitarian translation.

Notice how Jesus admitted to being the Messiah when the Jews decided to kill him: "'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' 'I am" [ego eimi],' said Jesus." - Mark 14:61-62. Again the 'absolute' ego eimi ("I am") as used by Jesus means "I am the Christ" and spurs the Jews to condemn him to die!

In fact, even some trinitarian scholars have admitted that they believe that Jesus' statements at John 8:56 and 8:58 are statements proclaiming himself to be the Messiah. Trinitarian scholar William Barclay admits in his popular Daily Study Bible Series:

"So when Jesus said that Abraham had seen his day, he was making a deliberate claim that he was the Messiah. He was really saying 'I am the Messiah Abraham saw in his vision.' " - p. 35, The Gospel of John, Vol. 2, 1975, The Westminster Press. (Cf. footnote for Jn 8:56 in The New Oxford Annotated Bible, 1973 ed., Oxford University Press.)


And famous trinitarian scholar Robert Young (Young's Analytical Concordance to the Holy Bible) in explaining John 8:58 tells us that Jesus was proclaiming himself by these words (ego eimi) to be "the promised Messiah." (Young's Concise Critical Bible Commentary, p. 61, 1977 ed., Baker Book House.)

When we analyze the "parallel" (according to some Trinitarians) uses of ego eimi by Jesus found in the Gospel of John "which culminate in the 'I Am' of John 8:58," we find they all show Jesus' identity (as "Jesus" or "the Christ")! If these are really "parallel" uses of ego eimi by Jesus, as many Trinitarians insist, then 8:58 should be understood as "I am [or 'have been'] the Christ"!

[The phrase "I, I am" {ego eimi} occurs many other times in the New Testament, and; is often translated as "I am he" or some equivalent ("I am he" in Mark 13:6; Luke 21:8; John 13:19; 18:5, 6, 8; "it is I" in Matt 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20 and; "I am the one I claim to be" in John 8:24, 28.).

It is obvious that these translations are quite correct, but it is interesting that the phrase is translated as "I am," ONLY once i.e. in John 8:58.

THE FOLLOWING ARE ALL TRINITARIAN PUBLICATIONS:

(1) “I HAVE BEEN”[4] - alternate reading in 1960 thru 1973 reference editions of NASB
(2) “I HAVE BEEN” - The New Testament, G. R. Noyes
(3) “I HAVE BEEN” - “The Four Gospels” According to the Sinaitic Palimpsest, A. S. Lewis
(4) “I HAVE ALREADY BEEN” - The Unvarnished New Testament
(5) “I HAVE EXISTED” - The Bible, A New Translation, Dr. James Moffatt
(6) “I EXISTED” - The New Testament in the Language of Today, 1964 ed., Beck
(7) “I EXISTED” - An American Translation, Goodspeed
(8) “I EXISTED” - The New Testament in the Language of the People, Williams
(9) “I EXISTED” - New Simplified Bible
(10) “I WAS IN EXISTENCE” - Living Bible
(11) “I WAS ALIVE” - The Simple English Bible
(12)“I WAS” - Holy Bible - From the Ancient Eastern Text, Lamsa
(13)“I WAS” - Young’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1st ed. (Also see Young’s Concise Critical Commentary, p. 61 of “The New Covenant.”).
(14) “I WAS” - The Syriac New Testament, Jas. Murdock
(15) “I WAS” - H. T. Anderson
(16) “I WAS” - Twentieth Century New Testament
(17) "I EXISTED" - New Living Translation (NLT)


The Living New Testament:

"The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born."

The 20th Century New Testament:

"before Abraham existed I was."

Parker, P.G. Clarified N.T.:

Jesus answered, before Abraham existed, I existed.

Cotton Patch Version (1970):

To this Jesus replied, I existed before Abraham was born.

Good News for the World (1969)

Jesus answer, I tell you the truth. I already was before Abraham was born.

New Believers Bible, New Living Translation:

"I existed before Abraham was even born."

The New Testament, Kleist and Lilly:

"I am here-and I was before Abraham."

Wakefield, G. N.T. (1795)

Jesus said unto them: Verily verily I say unto you, before Abraham was born, I am He.

The Curetonian Version of the Four Gospels, Burkitt & The Old Georgian Version of the Gospel of John, Blake & Briere:

"Before Abraham came to be, I was."

The New Testament Or Rather the New Covenant, Sharpe:

"I was before Abraham was born."

The New Testament, Stage:

"Before Abraham came to be, I was."

The Documents of the New Testament, Wade:

"Before Abraham came into being, I have existed."

Noli, M.F.S. N.T. (1961)

Jesus answered them: Well, well, I tell you, I existed before Abraham was born.

The Concise Gospel and The Acts, Christianson:

"I existed even before Abraham was born."

The Original New Testament, Schonfield: "I tell you for a positive fact, I existed before Abraham was born."

The Complete Gospels Annotated Scholars Version,
Miller: "I existed before there was an Abraham."

Swann, G. N.T. (1947)

Jesus said to them, verily, verily I say unto you, I existed before Abraham was born

International English Version (2001)

"I was alive before Abraham was born"

In conclusion:

I predict that BS filter and his Trinitarian brethren will just dismiss everything you just read with one quick wave of their magical hermeneutical wand. Essentially, they don't care if the evidence completely refutes their cherished assertions and delusions. The Evangelicals aren't ignorant, they're indifferent and have no concern or respect for facts or truth.

 

[alang1216]

I doubt that is the reason.

I love how you think you know me.

 

[BS Filter]

If you're an Evangelical Christian skip this post, don't read it, it will strip you of your cherished delusions about YHWH and of course, that would be a tragedy for you, due to your indifference to the facts. I would suggest you place me on ignore.

For the truth-seekers, read on. BS filter needs to fix or replace his filter. Let's read his "proof-text" in context:

(8:53) " 'Surely you are not greater than our father Abraham, who died?' ... (54) Jesus answered, 'If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, "He is our God"; (55) and you have not come to know him, but I know him; and if I say that I do not know him I shall be a liar like you, but I do know him, and keep his word. (56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it and was glad.' (57) The Jews therefore said to him, 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?' (58) Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.' (59) Therefore they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple." - John 8:53-59

Some Trinitarians, like "BS filter", claim that Jesus was declaring himself to be YHWH because he said "I AM" ("ego eimi" in the original NT Greek) in John 8:58.

Their reasoning goes like this:

Exodus 3:14 in some English Bible translations has YHWH revealing himself as "I AM WHO I AM" and "I AM." So, they say, Jesus' statement at John 8:58 shows him revealing himself by the same exclusive title (name? description?) as YHWH ("I AM" at Exodus 3:14) and, therefore, he is literally, ontologically, YHWH!

Furthermore, some of these Trinitarians say, the Jews understood perfectly that Jesus was claiming to be YHWH when he used those two words because they immediately took up stones to kill him. But these Jews had already decided beforehand to kill Jesus (John 7:1, 25). They needed no further incentives. Nothing that Jesus said or did at this point would have made any difference to them.

If the Jews had really understood the phrase "I AM" (ego eimi) to mean the speaker was claiming to be YHWH and that they should therefore kill him, they would have immediately stoned Jesus at John 8:24 or :28. (The actual Greek in the ancient Bible manuscripts is identical to John 8:58, ego eimi, but many English Bible translations properly add "he" so that it can be understood as "I am he" rather than "I AM", in English.)

We know that even his disciples didn't believe Jesus was God simply because he said ego eimi, for he identified himself to them with these same words at John 6:20 (usually rendered into English as "It is I"), and their reaction was certainly not that of those who had come into the presence of God! You can see the parallel of that event in John's gospel in Matt. 14:27. Did they consider Jesus YHWH there? No.

The words ego eimi formed a phrase that was in very common use by first-century Christians and Jews and in New Testament scriptures. It was certainly not understood (by Jews or Christians) as declaring one's Godhood. If it could have been understood that way, we can be sure the Jews would have never applied it to themselves (as they did so frequently)!

Notice, for example, how the former blind man (John 9:9) actually identifies himself by saying "ego eimi," but none of the other Jews present, even for a moment, understood him to be claiming to be YHWH!

And Jesus earlier ( in John 6:20 mentioned above) clearly identified himself by saying to his frightened disciples: ego eimi. None of his disciples considered that to mean that Jesus was claiming to be God. In fact, most trinitarian-translated Bibles render Jesus’ words identifying himself here as “It is I.” E.g., ASV; AMP; CJB; DARBY; DRA; ESV; GNT; GNV; HCSB; ISV; JB; KJV; KJ21; TLB; MEV; MLB; MOUNCE; NAB; NASB; NCV; NEB; NET; NIV; NKJV; NLV; NRSV; REB; RSV; WEB; and WE.

It is simply impossible that the Jews would say Jesus was claiming to be the Almighty God. It is virtually certain, instead, that one of three things was meant by the phrase "before Abraham came into being ego eimi" spoken by Jesus at John 8:58:


(1) "Even before Abraham was born, I was (the Christ)."

(2) "I existed before Abraham was born."("I was"; "I existed"; "I have been")

(3) "I came into existence before Abraham was even born."


Why Stones?

As for the charge that the Jews were going to stone him because he claimed to be God, we should be aware that the Jews stoned people for many offenses. For example, a person pretending to be a "wizard" was to be stoned to death according to the Law (Lev. 20:27 - KJV, RSV, ASV, LB). Today's Dictionary of the Bible, 1982 ed., tells us:

"Wizard, a pretender to supernatural knowledge and power .... such a one was forbidden on pain of death to practice his deceptions ... Lev. 20:26, 27." - p. 654.

We also know that some of the Jews wanted Jesus killed for blasphemy because he admitted to being the Messiah (Christ) - see Matt 26:59-68 and footnotes for Matt 26:65 and Luke 22:71 in The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan Publ., 1985.

"But powerful forces in the Jewish congregation, jealous of his popularity, incensed by his denunciation of some of them, and bitterly critical of his disregard for formalism, his willingness to violate some of the minor laws of the Jews, and his heretical claim that he was the Son of God, repudiated him, conspired to kill him, saw him crucified, and after his death, persecuted his followers." - The Portable World Bible, Viking Press, p. 230.

It was even forbidden for others to say that Jesus was the Messiah - John 9:22. And, in fact, that was obviously why Stephen was stoned to death.

In Acts 7:55-58, Stephen looked up into heaven "and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and he said, 'Behold, I see the heavens opened and the Son of man [synonymous with the Messiah, not God] standing at the right hand of God.' But they [the Jews] ... cast him out of the city, and stoned him." - RSV.

Stephen was stoned, not because he claimed to be God, nor because he claimed Jesus was God (quite the contrary, in fact, as his quoted statement clearly shows: Jesus "standing at the right hand of God") but because he was proclaiming Jesus to be the Messiah (Christ)! See The NIV Study Bible footnotes for Acts 7:56 and Mk 8:31.


The New American Bible, St. Joseph edition, tells us in a footnote for Acts 7:55 -

"Stephen affirms to the Sanhedrin that the prophecy Jesus made before them has been fulfilled (Mk 14:62)."

And Mk 14:61-64 shows Jesus declaring he is the Christ and that the Jews will see him (the son of man) at the right hand of God. This "blasphemy" of claiming to be the Messiah (whom the Jews never considered to be God) caused the Jews to condemn Jesus to death - see footnotes for Mk 14:61, 63 in The NIV Study Bible. Also, the trinitarian publican, The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible also tells us about the Messiah expected by the Jews at this time:

"The figure of the 'Son of Man' ... was, moreover, in accord with ... that of a pre-existent, heavenly angelic being who, at the end time, will appear at the side of God as judge of the world." - p. 364, Vol. 3, Abingdon Press, 1962.


Therefore, when Jesus claimed, at John 8:58, to have lived long before his first-century human existence, the Jews could have perceived him as a false prophet, or a self-proclaimed "wizard," or, more likely, as one claiming to be the Christ or Messiah (the Son of Man) and tried to stone him because of that.

​

"I Was the Christ"

The Gospel writers have clearly shown Jesus applying the term ego eimi to himself and meaning "I am the Christ."

Mark 13:6 shows Jesus saying, "I am he [literally just ego eimi alone, 'I AM']" - What did he mean there in Mark's gospel? He was conveying that he is the Christ, not YHWH GOD. The parallel account at Luke 21:8 agrees.

The other parallel account by Matthew shows what Jesus actually meant by the "absolute" ego eimi in those parallel accounts of Mark and Luke:


"I am the Messiah" - Matt. 24:5 - NEB.


So we see Jesus using the "absolute" ego eimi at Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:8 (see any interlinear). And Matthew explains that Jesus means "I am the Messiah"!

Also see John 8:24, Living Bible - "I am the Messiah,"

The Living Bible is a popular, Evangelical, Trinitarian translation.

Notice how Jesus admitted to being the Messiah when the Jews decided to kill him: "'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' 'I am" [ego eimi],' said Jesus." - Mark 14:61-62. Again the 'absolute' ego eimi ("I am") as used by Jesus means "I am the Christ" and spurs the Jews to condemn him to die!

In fact, even some trinitarian scholars have admitted that they believe that Jesus' statements at John 8:56 and 8:58 are statements proclaiming himself to be the Messiah. Trinitarian scholar William Barclay admits in his popular Daily Study Bible Series:

"So when Jesus said that Abraham had seen his day, he was making a deliberate claim that he was the Messiah. He was really saying 'I am the Messiah Abraham saw in his vision.' " - p. 35, The Gospel of John, Vol. 2, 1975, The Westminster Press. (Cf. footnote for Jn 8:56 in The New Oxford Annotated Bible, 1973 ed., Oxford University Press.)


And famous trinitarian scholar Robert Young (Young's Analytical Concordance to the Holy Bible) in explaining John 8:58 tells us that Jesus was proclaiming himself by these words (ego eimi) to be "the promised Messiah." (Young's Concise Critical Bible Commentary, p. 61, 1977 ed., Baker Book House.)

When we analyze the "parallel" (according to some Trinitarians) uses of ego eimi by Jesus found in the Gospel of John "which culminate in the 'I Am' of John 8:58," we find they all show Jesus' identity (as "Jesus" or "the Christ")! If these are really "parallel" uses of ego eimi by Jesus, as many Trinitarians insist, then 8:58 should be understood as "I am [or 'have been'] the Christ"!

[The phrase "I, I am" {ego eimi} occurs many other times in the New Testament, and; is often translated as "I am he" or some equivalent ("I am he" in Mark 13:6; Luke 21:8; John 13:19; 18:5, 6, 8; "it is I" in Matt 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20 and; "I am the one I claim to be" in John 8:24, 28.).

It is obvious that these translations are quite correct, but it is interesting that the phrase is translated as "I am," ONLY once i.e. in John 8:58.

THE FOLLOWING ARE ALL TRINITARIAN PUBLICATIONS:

(1) “I HAVE BEEN”[4] - alternate reading in 1960 thru 1973 reference editions of NASB
(2) “I HAVE BEEN” - The New Testament, G. R. Noyes
(3) “I HAVE BEEN” - “The Four Gospels” According to the Sinaitic Palimpsest, A. S. Lewis
(4) “I HAVE ALREADY BEEN” - The Unvarnished New Testament
(5) “I HAVE EXISTED” - The Bible, A New Translation, Dr. James Moffatt
(6) “I EXISTED” - The New Testament in the Language of Today, 1964 ed., Beck
(7) “I EXISTED” - An American Translation, Goodspeed
(8) “I EXISTED” - The New Testament in the Language of the People, Williams
(9) “I EXISTED” - New Simplified Bible
(10) “I WAS IN EXISTENCE” - Living Bible
(11) “I WAS ALIVE” - The Simple English Bible
(12)“I WAS” - Holy Bible - From the Ancient Eastern Text, Lamsa
(13)“I WAS” - Young’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1st ed. (Also see Young’s Concise Critical Commentary, p. 61 of “The New Covenant.”).
(14) “I WAS” - The Syriac New Testament, Jas. Murdock
(15) “I WAS” - H. T. Anderson
(16) “I WAS” - Twentieth Century New Testament
(17) "I EXISTED" - New Living Translation (NLT)


The Living New Testament:

"The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born."

The 20th Century New Testament:

"before Abraham existed I was."

Parker, P.G. Clarified N.T.:

Jesus answered, before Abraham existed, I existed.

Cotton Patch Version (1970):

To this Jesus replied, I existed before Abraham was born.

Good News for the World (1969)

Jesus answer, I tell you the truth. I already was before Abraham was born.

New Believers Bible, New Living Translation:

"I existed before Abraham was even born."

The New Testament, Kleist and Lilly:

"I am here-and I was before Abraham."

Wakefield, G. N.T. (1795)

Jesus said unto them: Verily verily I say unto you, before Abraham was born, I am He.

The Curetonian Version of the Four Gospels, Burkitt & The Old Georgian Version of the Gospel of John, Blake & Briere:

"Before Abraham came to be, I was."

The New Testament Or Rather the New Covenant, Sharpe:

"I was before Abraham was born."

The New Testament, Stage:

"Before Abraham came to be, I was."

The Documents of the New Testament, Wade:

"Before Abraham came into being, I have existed."

Noli, M.F.S. N.T. (1961)

Jesus answered them: Well, well, I tell you, I existed before Abraham was born.

The Concise Gospel and The Acts, Christianson:

"I existed even before Abraham was born."

The Original New Testament, Schonfield: "I tell you for a positive fact, I existed before Abraham was born."

The Complete Gospels Annotated Scholars Version,
Miller: "I existed before there was an Abraham."

Swann, G. N.T. (1947)

Jesus said to them, verily, verily I say unto you, I existed before Abraham was born

International English Version (2001)

"I was alive before Abraham was born"

In conclusion:

I predict that BS filter and his Trinitarian brethren will just dismiss everything you just read with one quick wave of their magical hermeneutical wand. Essentially, they don't care if the evidence completely refutes their cherished assertions and delusions. The Evangelicals aren't ignorant, they're indifferent and have no concern or respect for facts or truth.

Why don't you give us the link from where you copied and pasted that load of propaganda.

 

[ding]

The book where it says "you will have no other gods before me"?

Yes, how else would you suggest they tell the account of the transition from polytheism to monotheism?

Of course the gods before you would be your worshiping created things instead of the creator. Which you are free to do but will never be satisfied by because you were made for more. In fact, that's the reason you are here. You aren't satisfied. You just haven't figured it out yet. That's why you have no peace.

 

[ding]

Talk to an archeologist. Early Jews often had multiple shrines in their homes.

Again... polytheism preceded monotheism. It didn't change overnight. It took time. Just like every other truth that is discovered.

 

[ding]

I love how you think you know me.

I never claimed to know everything about you, just this. You aren't here because you don't understand. You are here because you disagree and want to convince others to disagree; to show how superior you are to them. Apparently it's how you entertain yourself. I play golf instead of going to atheist websites.