Yet another reason to go electric in vehicles

[Leo123]

This thread seems to be much more about America rejecting the EV market, than a debate over which country is leading the way. America must make it's choice and then everybody might be able to get on the same page?

China leads the way in coal fired electric generation.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

It's not going to be cheaper, it's running out. There's only about 40 more years at best left in the total world supply.

Are you a time traveler? We already went through this bullshit fifty years ago.
Get back to the 70’s where you belong.
(And bet on NC St in the 1974 NCAA tournament)

 

[Donald H]

The market will sort it out. The government will fuck it up.

Yeah Bill, that's the way it usually works!

But in China the government has upstaged the market and made a very critical choice. If they're wrong on EV's then they'll take a huge hit.

And if they're right, as is becoming suspiciously so, they take control over another market.

Funny isn't it, how a communist government makes the heavy decisions so quickly!

And for you Bill, because you show interest, I'll just add that China is producing the very highest quality EV's for the top end market, as well as the most affordable for the bottom end!

 

[Jarlaxle]

I'm sorry...are you attempting to stumble upon a point?

 

[Samofvt]

Yeah, yet another unknown factor.....Will they ever be able to shorten the charge time for a full charge? I mean, who wants to wait 8 hours for a full charge or even 35 minutes for a full charge when you can pump a tank of gas in just a few minutes.
[snip]

Agree. It just doesn't seem feasible with current technology. When they invent something like a miniature nuclear power plant that can generate large amounts of electricity and fit in the trunk, then hands down everyone will switch to that EV.

In the meantime, storing high energy content fuel and burning in an engine is a lot more feasible. Others here pointed out hydrogen fuel cells. There are also ways to synthesize gasoline-like fuel from raw materials, not the least of which has been developed by ExxonMobil: Coal to Clean Gasoline. There are other similar technologies available today, and I have no doubt more will be developed in the future.

If you really want to maximize efficiency, the hybrid cars seem like the best compromise. Pure EV? No chance at success on a massive scale.

 

[Donald H]

China leads the way in coal fired electric generation.

It's good that you are demonstrating environmental concerns Leo, as well as concerns over AGW!

 

[Leo123]

It's good that you are demonstrating environmental concerns Leo, as well as concerns over AGW!

It's good that you are demonstrating the need for fossil fuel generated electricity to support your green fantasy.

 

[Donald H]

Agree. It just doesn't seem feasible with current technology. When they invent something like a miniature nuclear power plant that can generate large amounts of electricity and fit in the trunk, then hands down everyone will switch to that EV.

China has the 'charging time' already covered.
Both capitalists and commies think of everything, but commies put the plan into action much more quickly when the government can make the decision overnight and put the plan into action tomorrow.
Unfortunately, the people aren't allowed to think it over and make their decision at the ballot box in six or eight months! ;-(

 

[Donald H]

It's good that you are demonstrating the need for fossil fuel generated electricity to support your green fantasy.

That's sort of beside the point Leo. China is winning the race for EV's on the road, regardless of how much coal is burned in the process.

My personal preference is that they don't resort to coal/do resort to coal, but they obviously don't care about my green agenda.

So we can agree on one thing Leo.

China bad! Bad China for burning coal! Bad!

 

[Captain Caveman]

Consumer demand controls industry, and progress happens. Ask any unemployed harpooner.

The costs of producing electricity from dirty fuels is currently either remaining stable or rising due to the costs of carbon capture and storage.

Overall costs of producing electricity from solar and wind are projected to continue to fall. Battery costs are also expected to fall.

(The added costs of CCS technologies has almost doubled the cost of both gas and coal electricity generation.)

As the world moves towards a future no longer dependent on dinosaur juice, new coal power plants are becoming more expensive to finance, thus making them less likely to be built.

Pay attention to those who have expertise and a vested interest, not to ideologues blowing gas:

Hitherto oil-dependent Saudi Arabia has instituted a renewable energy policy - "Vision 2030" - a strategic framework to reduce its economic dependence on its ever-depleting oil supply.

Norway has been a prosperous nation for quite some time, and hydropower has been the basis of its industrial development and prosperity for more than 100 years. Its plan to reduce its use of fossil fuels even further is not an unproven, quixotic pipe dream. For one of those, see Soyuz.

Where are the visionaries investing for the future? Elon Musk had the perspicacity to establish Tesla in 2003. He created countless jobs and spearheaded technological and engineering feats that dirty-fuelers had scoffed at.

In recent decades the cost of wind and solar power generation has dropped dramatically. This is one reason that the U.S. Department of Energy projects that renewable energy will be the fastest-growing U.S. energy source through 2050.

MSN

www.msn.com

View attachment 581562
If this is your vision of the future, you're going to be disappointed.​

When you read down your post, you think, "Wow, amazing". But if you look beyond that, as for example, prices are expected to come down, but Tesla keeps increasing prices.

Tesla increases Model Y prices again as new incentives are coming

Tesla has again increased the price of the Model Y in the US (the eighth time this year), and it...

electrek.co

Some countries can do hydro, some can't. It's something that can't easily appear in a short timeframe.

Technology and mankind will move on. EV's are not the saviour as you think, they only reduce your car co2 output by 17% to 30%.

This depletion of oil idea has been going on for decades, if you know someone who works in that field, they don't share your sentiments on oil. So either you or they are right, I can only believe those that actually drill for it, sorry.

Wind and solar are simply not the answer, they can't replace fossil and nuclear entirely, and unfortunately for the pro Greeners, renewables will not save their planet.

 

[Donald H]

EVs are the future no matter how much Con Luddites scream, moan and throw tantrums.

Of course they are John!
But don't you get the feeling that America is gambling on that not being true?
While at the same time China is taking a huge gamble on EV's!

Or am I wrong on America gambling against EV's being the future? Maybe it's nothing more than the Trump side or the conservative side taking a sour grapes position? Americans do love their really big gas engines.

 

[Leo123]

That's sort of beside the point Leo. China is winning the race for EV's on the road, regardless of how much coal is burned in the process.

My personal preference is that they don't resort to coal/do resort to coal, but they obviously don't care about my green agenda.

So we can agree on one thing Leo.

China bad! Bad China for burning coal! Bad!

I don't support pushing EVs for the sake of having more EVs than China. The EV is not a better car than a gas fueled car. As I said, I believe both can have their place in the market but, not to the detriment of what is more economical and/or convenient etc., for the average consumer. Drop the 'green' crap and let the market decide.

 

[Decus]

China has the 'charging time' already covered.
Both capitalists and commies think of everything, but commies put the plan into action much more quickly when the government can make the decision overnight and put the plan into action tomorrow.
Unfortunately, the people aren't allowed to think it over and make their decision at the ballot box in six or eight months! ;-(

China's last "Great Leap Forward" resulted in tens of millions of Chinese dying. Mao was just as fast as Xi in decision-making and failing to consult Chinese citizens.

"One government document that has been internally circulated and seen by a former Communist Party official now at Princeton University says that 80 million died unnatural deaths -- most of them in the famine following the Great Leap Forward."

"This figure comes from the Tigaisuo, or the System Reform Institute, which was led by Zhao Ziyang, the deposed Communist Party chief, in the 1980s to study how to reform Chinese society."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/07/17/how-many-died-new-evidence-suggests-far-higher-numbers-for-the-victims-of-mao-zedongs-era/01044df5-03dd-49f4-a453-a033c5287bce/

.

 

[Donald H]

When you read down your post, you think, "Wow, amazing". But if you look beyond that, as for example, prices are expected to come down, but Tesla keeps increasing prices.

Tesla increases Model Y prices again as new incentives are coming

Tesla has again increased the price of the Model Y in the US (the eighth time this year), and it...

electrek.co

Some countries can do hydro, some can't. It's something that can't easily appear in a short timeframe.

Technology and mankind will move on. EV's are not the saviour as you think, they only reduce your car co2 output by 17% to 30%.

This depletion of oil idea has been going on for decades, if you know someone who works in that field, they don't share your sentiments on oil. So either you or they are right, I can only believe those that actually drill for it, sorry.

Wind and solar are simply not the answer, they can't replace fossil and nuclear entirely, and unfortunately for the pro Greeners, renewables will not save their planet.

Tesla produced over 54,000 EV's during 2021,


in China.


Nuclear is going to be a part of the Green, but maybe just a lighter shade of green. Because it's absolutely necessary that the planet goes green.

 

[Donald H]

I don't support pushing EVs for the sake of having more EVs than China. The EV is not a better car than a gas fueled car. As I said, I believe both can have their place in the market but, not to the detriment of what is more economical and/or convenient etc., for the average driver. Trash the 'green' crap and let the market decide.

You're missing the point Leo. The market isn't deciding, the market was and is footdragging.

The Chinese communist government has decided much quicker than the market could ever decide.

Supply and demand is relative to capitalism Leo, not communism. Neither Americans or Canadians make a mistake on that!

Communism appears to have created the demand and then is quickly fulfilling the demand to catch up.

 

[iceberg]

I don’t pay a fucking penny to coal generation.

Yea ya do.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Tesla produced over 54,000 EV's during 2021,


in China.


Nuclear is going to be a part of the Green, but maybe just a lighter shade of green. Because it's absolutely necessary that the planet goes green.

The planet won't go green, it cannot go green, it's impossible to go green. What ever you try to do, it's not green. Going EV is not green, instead of 100% vehicle pollution, you will drop to 70% to 83% polluting. Still high.

 

[Leo123]

You're missing the point Leo. The market isn't deciding, the market was and is footdragging.

The Chinese communist government has decided much quicker than the market could ever decide.

Supply and demand is relative to capitalism Leo, not communism. Neither Americans or Canadians make a mistake on that!

Communism appears to have created the demand and then is quickly fulfilling the demand to catch up.

No Don, people largely aren't buying evs, that is not foot dragging that is the market meeting the greater demand for gas fueled vehicles. Sorry, I am not for central government creating a market demand that's why Communism never really works.

 

[Donald H]

China's last "Great Leap Forward" resulted in tens of millions of Chinese dying. Mao was just as fast as Xi in decision-making and failing to consult Chinese citizens.



.

I can easily see how China will suffer the loss of millions or billions if they have gambled wrong on the EV market of the future. Only my millions or billions aren't people, even though there will be a human cost if they've gambled wrong.

But why would this have anything to do with millions of Chinese dying, or even millions of people in foreign lands dying under American bombs?

 

[Leo123]

The planet won't go green, it cannot go green, it's impossible to go green. What ever you try to do, it's not green. Going EV is not green, instead of 100% vehicle pollution, you will drop to 70% to 83% polluting. Still high.

Building EVs is not green as well.