Yes Yes Yes!

[Gunny]

And if you believe everything Willow says, I think there's still a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

This information has been available for at least a couple days. Here's the first link that popped up with a simple google search:

Take Action - Health Care Bill Outlaws Private Insurance, Benefits Illegal Immigrants

*sigh*

It doesn't outlaw private insurance.

And please link to the portion of the bill itself that benefits illegal immigrants.

The benefit is an intangible. Of course it wouldn't be included in the language of the bill. You can't be this dumb, so you must just be obtuse.

 

[Meister]

And if you believe everything Willow says, I think there's still a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

This information has been available for at least a couple days. Here's the first link that popped up with a simple google search:

Take Action - Health Care Bill Outlaws Private Insurance, Benefits Illegal Immigrants

*sigh*

It doesn't outlaw private insurance.

And please link to the portion of the bill itself that benefits illegal immigrants.

"sigh"

Your right it doesn't outlaw private insurance....but it does "persuade" businesses to drop healthcare coverage, so people will be forced to take on government run insurance. Also, cancel your private insurance and see how many options you have.

By the way....the illegals will be covered under the Obama's bill....also we will be forced to pay for voluntary abortions for all who want one. This bill is being sold as vague as it can possibly be....that's not by accident...just like the stimulus bill, and look what we ended up with. Oh yeah, change-hope-transparency

"sigh"

 

[Caligirl]

I don't think we can tax them effectively for any number of reasons. We give them health care because it is the right thing to do. The fact that americans are as compassionate as we are is a point in our favor.

 

[Emma]

No, I read just fine. Perhaps you need assistance as I asked for a link to the section of the bill.

Text of H.R.3200 as Introduced in House:... OpenCongress

Here's a link to the bill itself as it made it through the House. The section you want is section 102, it's not very far down at all. and reads thusly if you don't want to dig through the whole bill:

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

16
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(b) Grace Period for Current Employment-based Health Plans-CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(1) GRACE PERIOD-CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

2
(A) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(B) EXCEPTION FOR LIMITED BENEFITS PLANS- Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the following:CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(i) Any coverage described in section 3001(a)(1)(B)(ii)(IV) of division B of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Public Law 111-5).CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(ii) Excepted benefits (as defined in section 733(c) of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974), including coverage under a specified disease or illness policy described in paragraph (3)(A) of such section.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(iii) Such other limited benefits as the Commissioner may specify.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

4
In no case shall an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the coverage or benefits described in clauses (i) through (iii) be treated as acceptable coverage under this divisionCommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(2) TRANSITIONAL TREATMENT AS ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE- During the grace period specified in paragraph (1)(A), an employment-based health plan that is described in such paragraph shall be treated as acceptable coverage under this division.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(c) Limitation on Individual Health Insurance Coverage-CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

5
(1) IN GENERAL- Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(2) SEPARATE, EXCEPTED COVERAGE PERMITTED- Excepted benefits (as defined in section 2791(c) of the Public Health Service Act) are not included within the definition of health insurance coverage. Nothing in paragraph (1) shall prevent the offering, other than through the Health Insurance Exchange, of excepted benefits so long as it is offered and priced separately from health insurance coverage.

The first couple of sections make it clear that if you have insurance BEFORE Obamacare goes into effect you can keep it, BUT the insurer isn't allowed to take on any new clients after Day 1 that the bill goes into effect (meaning if you change jobs you either pay COBRA fees or you hop onto Obamacare because you're new job won't be able to add you to their policy) and that insurer's can't change policies once Obamacare goes into effect either. Meaning if your needs change you can't change your insurance to meet those needs.

No, it doesn't.

Do you know what "grandfathered" means, btw?

 

[Emma]

do we have access to the bill? transparency and all that shit?? another laugh another lie,, what's knew???

Yep. I have them saved in my bookmarks folder. Now if you will be so kind as to point out the section you're referencing, and if it is from the House or Senate version. Thanks.

i did already,, not my fault you can't read it.shrug.

Not in this thread you didn't.

A link to the BILL. Not a blog or news article. The actual section of the BILL that backs your claim. Thanks.

 

[Meister]

I don't think we can tax them effectively for any number of reasons. We give them health care because it is the right thing to do. The fact that americans are as compassionate as we are is a point in our favor.

Spoken like a true californian. By the way aren't the illegals a big problem with the economy of California. Just keep being compassionate to people breaking the law....you people will go bankrupt yet. I think your bonds are at or just above junk bond status, just keep handing the money out. What a goofball.

 

[Emma]

This information has been available for at least a couple days. Here's the first link that popped up with a simple google search:

Take Action - Health Care Bill Outlaws Private Insurance, Benefits Illegal Immigrants

*sigh*

It doesn't outlaw private insurance.

And please link to the portion of the bill itself that benefits illegal immigrants.

The benefit is an intangible. Of course it wouldn't be included in the language of the bill. You can't be this dumb, so you must just be obtuse.

I'm not the one claiming the bill benefits illegals. I don't expect it to be labeled that blatantly, of course. But I am asking for the section of the BILL that they feel renders these benefits.

Thanks.

 

[Emma]

This information has been available for at least a couple days. Here's the first link that popped up with a simple google search:

Take Action - Health Care Bill Outlaws Private Insurance, Benefits Illegal Immigrants

*sigh*

It doesn't outlaw private insurance.

And please link to the portion of the bill itself that benefits illegal immigrants.

"sigh"

Your right it doesn't outlaw private insurance....but it does "persuade" businesses to drop healthcare coverage, so people will be forced to take on government run insurance. Also, cancel your private insurance and see how many options you have.

By the way....the illegals will be covered under the Obama's bill....also we will be forced to pay for voluntary abortions for all who want one. This bill is being sold as vague as it can possibly be....that's not by accident...just like the stimulus bill, and look what we ended up with. Oh yeah, change-hope-transparency

"sigh"

Perhaps YOU can reference the section of either bill that backs what you claim here.

 

[Meister]

*sigh*

It doesn't outlaw private insurance.

And please link to the portion of the bill itself that benefits illegal immigrants.

"sigh"

Your right it doesn't outlaw private insurance....but it does "persuade" businesses to drop healthcare coverage, so people will be forced to take on government run insurance. Also, cancel your private insurance and see how many options you have.

By the way....the illegals will be covered under the Obama's bill....also we will be forced to pay for voluntary abortions for all who want one. This bill is being sold as vague as it can possibly be....that's not by accident...just like the stimulus bill, and look what we ended up with. Oh yeah, change-hope-transparency

"sigh"

Perhaps YOU can reference the section of either bill that backs what you claim here.

"sigh"

I'll tell you what Emma, I will give you the sources and you can do your own damn research on it and then tell me I'm wrong. Sit back, get a cup of jo'. I'm not going to play your fuckin game, but will give you the sources.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
InsideCatholic.com - Abortion Services Included in Health-Care Bill
Health Care Bill Outlaws Private Insurance, Benefits Illegal Immigrants | Editorial

you know you could have googled it yourself....but being a left wingnut, I know you would rather have somebody do it for you.

 

[auditor0007]

Ummm, do we tax illegals to begin with? Not sure how they would fill out the forms without SS #s etc.....

you do know of course they voted to give 12 million illegals free health care?? now they have voted not to hold them to the same standards as the US of KKKA citizen.. do ya get it now???

Illegals should be given minimal treatment to stabilize their condition and then deported immediately.

 

[AllieBaba]

Ummm, do we tax illegals to begin with? Not sure how they would fill out the forms without SS #s etc.....

I could tell you. We provide health care all the time to ppl without ss #s.

 

[MaggieMae]

And if you believe everything Willow says, I think there's still a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

This information has been available for at least a couple days. Here's the first link that popped up with a simple google search:

Take Action - Health Care Bill Outlaws Private Insurance, Benefits Illegal Immigrants

What is today??? you link was published July 20th.. And we are to believe via the naysayer libtard that this has already been voted down?? that's not what Cavuto said,, said it passed today.. thanks for the link..







Take Action Health Care Bill Outlaws Private Insurance, Benefits Illegal Immigrants
Increase Grassroots Pressure on Congress to Defeat ObamaCare!
July 20, 2009

Your representatives need to hear from you this week as the liberal Majority continues to plow ahead with their rush to "reform" health care on Capitol Hill! The legislation is hitting a few road blocks along the way, including written opposition from 40 Blue Dog (conservative) House Democrats and 22 additional Democrats.

Last week, the House Ways and Means Committee and the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pension (HELP) Committee voted on and approved their respective health care bills - that is, President Obama's proposed legislation for a government takeover of the American health care system.

Although the Senate bill, sponsored by Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) has not yet been released for the public to read, the House bill, misleadingly named the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 (H.R. 3200) is a whopping 1,018 pages long which will cost an estimated $1.5 trillion and is projected to force 114 million of Americans to lose their current health insurance, despite repeated promises by President Obama to the contrary.

The proposed health care bills, in their current form, aim to accomplish the following:

* Outlaw private individual health coverage. On page 16 of H.R. 3200, in section 102 entitled Protecting the Choice to Keep Current Coverage, the bill clearly states, "the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the bill becomes law. As verified by the House Ways and Means Committee last week, this provision means that this health care bill itself will kill the market for private individual coverage by not allowing any new policies to be written after the public option becomes law.

* Mandate taxpayer funding of abortion on a massive scale. H.R. 3200 authorizes a new appointed committee to recommend minimum benefits that all heath insurers would be required to offer in their plans. Unless the abortion procedure is explicitly excluded, abortions will be covered by national health care, forcing American taxpayers to pay for hundreds of thousands of abortions each year. 19 pro-life Democrats sent a letter to Nancy Pelosi stating their opposition to abortion being covered by a public plan: "We cannot support any health-care-reform proposal unless it explicitly excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or subsidized health-insurance plan."

* Expand Medicaid and exempt illegal aliens from mandates. Approximately 15-22 percent of the 46 million residents in the U.S. without health coverage are illegal aliens. The current Senate bill expands Medicaid and loosens tax credit eligibility requirements, which will be a magnet for illegal enrollment and fraud. Even worse, illegal aliens are exempted from the mandate to buy health insurance, which means that lawful Americans will have to pay a fine for not purchasing insurance, but illegals will be off the hook. Thus, they have no reason to buy their own coverage or stop receiving taxpayer-funded health services at clinics, emergency rooms, etc.

* Punish success and destroy jobs. The House bill imposes a 5.4 percent surtax on incomes over $280,000, which is a crushing blow to small businesses, which create most jobs. In addition, Democrats have proposed more than $800 billion in new tax hikes, and according to Obama's own economic advisors, the business tax hikes alone will destroy up to 4.7 million (more) jobs. Back in 1989, Larry Summers stated, "There is no sense in which benefits will become 'free' just because the government mandates that employers offer them to workers...so [they] are likely to create unemployment."
health ca

The House version was released on JULY 14, 2009. Cavuto, et al., continue to misrepresent everything to their herd. THIS IS NOT A DONE DEAL, and NOWHERE are illegal aliens afforded benefits even under the House bill, nor any of the other 16 that have been considered over the past several months. They ALL specifically say coverage will be for ELIGIBLE people, and illegal aliens aren't ELIGIBLE for anything except hospital emergency care. You can click on fact sheets and download the House version here.

Ezra Klein - The House Releases Its Health-Care Reform Bill

 

[MaggieMae]

This information has been available for at least a couple days. Here's the first link that popped up with a simple google search:

Take Action - Health Care Bill Outlaws Private Insurance, Benefits Illegal Immigrants

*sigh*

It doesn't outlaw private insurance.

And please link to the portion of the bill itself that benefits illegal immigrants.

sigh,, reading is a skill for you to work on developing maybe?




# Expand Medicaid and exempt illegal aliens from mandates. Approximately 15-22 percent of the 46 million residents in the U.S. without health coverage are illegal aliens. The current Senate bill expands Medicaid and loosens tax credit eligibility requirements, which will be a magnet for illegal enrollment and fraud. Even worse, illegal aliens are exempted from the mandate to buy health insurance, which means that lawful Americans will have to pay a fine for not purchasing insurance, but illegals will be off the hook. Thus, they have no reason to buy their own coverage or stop receiving taxpayer-funded health services at clinics, emergency rooms, etc.

That's from your petitiion link, Willow, not the bill itself. Nowhere therein does it say anything of the sort. Stop being so gullible by believing everything the ankle biters force-feed you.

 

[MaggieMae]

*sigh*

It doesn't outlaw private insurance.

And please link to the portion of the bill itself that benefits illegal immigrants.

sigh,, reading is a skill for you to work on developing maybe?




# Expand Medicaid and exempt illegal aliens from mandates. Approximately 15-22 percent of the 46 million residents in the U.S. without health coverage are illegal aliens. The current Senate bill expands Medicaid and loosens tax credit eligibility requirements, which will be a magnet for illegal enrollment and fraud. Even worse, illegal aliens are exempted from the mandate to buy health insurance, which means that lawful Americans will have to pay a fine for not purchasing insurance, but illegals will be off the hook. Thus, they have no reason to buy their own coverage or stop receiving taxpayer-funded health services at clinics, emergency rooms, etc.

No, I read just fine. Perhaps you need assistance as I asked for a link to the section of the bill.

That particular analysis is so bizarre. First off, if "illegal immigrants" were allowed to enter the public program, they would be admitting they are illegal, so they're not about to come out of the shadows until they ARE legal. Second, receiving emergency room care is not going to be eliminated for illegal immigrants, or anyone else who needs it, no matter what. It's a moot point.

 

[MaggieMae]

sigh,, reading is a skill for you to work on developing maybe?




# Expand Medicaid and exempt illegal aliens from mandates. Approximately 15-22 percent of the 46 million residents in the U.S. without health coverage are illegal aliens. The current Senate bill expands Medicaid and loosens tax credit eligibility requirements, which will be a magnet for illegal enrollment and fraud. Even worse, illegal aliens are exempted from the mandate to buy health insurance, which means that lawful Americans will have to pay a fine for not purchasing insurance, but illegals will be off the hook. Thus, they have no reason to buy their own coverage or stop receiving taxpayer-funded health services at clinics, emergency rooms, etc.

No, I read just fine. Perhaps you need assistance as I asked for a link to the section of the bill.

do we have access to the bill? transparency and all that shit?? another laugh another lie,, what's knew???

Um, yes we do--just as soon as it was released on JULY 14th, not JULY 20th. In fact, Navy1960 broke it down in parts for discussion in another thread. LOOK!!!!!!!! If you can tear yourself away from FOXNEWS that is!!

 

[MaggieMae]

This information has been available for at least a couple days. Here's the first link that popped up with a simple google search:

Take Action - Health Care Bill Outlaws Private Insurance, Benefits Illegal Immigrants

*sigh*

It doesn't outlaw private insurance.

And please link to the portion of the bill itself that benefits illegal immigrants.

The benefit is an intangible. Of course it wouldn't be included in the language of the bill. You can't be this dumb, so you must just be obtuse.

eligible
Adjective

1. meeting the requirements or qualifications needed: he may be eligible for free legal services

2. Old-fashioned desirable as a spouse [Latin eligere to elect]
eligibility n
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006

 

[MaggieMae]

This information has been available for at least a couple days. Here's the first link that popped up with a simple google search:

Take Action - Health Care Bill Outlaws Private Insurance, Benefits Illegal Immigrants

*sigh*

It doesn't outlaw private insurance.

And please link to the portion of the bill itself that benefits illegal immigrants.

"sigh"

Your right it doesn't outlaw private insurance....but it does "persuade" businesses to drop healthcare coverage, so people will be forced to take on government run insurance. Also, cancel your private insurance and see how many options you have.

By the way....the illegals will be covered under the Obama's bill....also we will be forced to pay for voluntary abortions for all who want one. Oh please, Meister-- yesterday you were sane. Now you've walked yourself back. This bill is being sold as vague as it can possibly be....that's not by accident...just like the stimulus bill, and look what we ended up with. Oh yeah, change-hope-transparency
Still refuse to check the transparency, POSTED DAILY at this link, I see.
"sigh"

Follow the Stimulus Money - ProPublica

 

[MaggieMae]

Ummm, do we tax illegals to begin with? Not sure how they would fill out the forms without SS #s etc.....

I could tell you. We provide health care all the time to ppl without ss #s.

Like any other similar program, they would be required to produce some proof that they are income eligible to receive a government subsidy to join the public plan, or even to buy one at the lower premium rate. Do you think that even the public plan won't ask for any information other than a name?

 

[twogreen2c]

I think I want to become an illegal. I have neighbors who are Mexicans. I'm sure they can show me the ropes and teach me some Spanish. When you figure all the taxes citizens are paying now and how much we are going to get slammed going forward, one may do well working at illegal immigrant wages.

 

[Meister]

*sigh*

It doesn't outlaw private insurance.

And please link to the portion of the bill itself that benefits illegal immigrants.

"sigh"

Your right it doesn't outlaw private insurance....but it does "persuade" businesses to drop healthcare coverage, so people will be forced to take on government run insurance. Also, cancel your private insurance and see how many options you have.

By the way....the illegals will be covered under the Obama's bill....also we will be forced to pay for voluntary abortions for all who want one. Oh please, Meister-- yesterday you were sane. Now you've walked yourself back. This bill is being sold as vague as it can possibly be....that's not by accident...just like the stimulus bill, and look what we ended up with. Oh yeah, change-hope-transparency
Still refuse to check the transparency, POSTED DAILY at this link, I see.
"sigh"

Follow the Stimulus Money - ProPublica

That post was from yesterday, Maggie. I think I did back up what I was saying with sources.... and it is vague because no one is talking about specifics to the American people....and they want to vote on it...right..call me crazy, This is why the bill is being hung up, and Americans aren't really buying into it. When the stimulus bill was passed, it wasn't transparent, hell they threw stuff in it the night before the vote....you call that transparent...just like the cap and trade bill, stuff was thown in the night before. Your not talking to the choir Maggie, your talking to someone that looks at this administration for what it is. Just like a typical administration that isn't forthcoming in it's actions. You think that I'm not being honest? Might look at yourself and ask that.