Wow................

[RetiredGySgt]

Great speech by Robert Ingersoll, this guy had a great Liberal mind.

"I hate to think that all this (slavery)was done under the Constitution of the United States, under the flag of my country, under the wings of the eagle.

The flag was not then what it is now. It was a mere rag in comparison. The eagle was a buzzard, and the Constitution sanctioned the greatest crime of the world.

I wonder that you—the black people—have forgotten all this. I wonder that you ask a white man to address you on this occasion, when the history of your connection with the white race is written in your blood and tears—is still upon your flesh, put there by the branding-iron and the lash.

I feel like asking your forgiveness for the wrongs that my race has inflicted upon yours. If, in the future, the wheel of fortune should take a turn, and you should in any country have white men in your power, I pray you not to execute the villainy we have taught you.

One word in conclusion. You have your liberty—use it to benefit your race. Educate yourselves, educate your children, send teachers to the South. Let your brethren there be educated. Let them know something of art and science. Improve yourselves, stand by each other, and above all be in favor of liberty the world over."

Address to the Colored People (XHTML) ? Antislavery Literature Project

Oh my gosh. The founding "eagle" was a "buzzard?" If not for that founding eagle and the early flag you likely wouldn't be enjoying your freedom of speech today. The past is the past. Time to stop wallowing in it. Stirring a pot of spilt milk is a waste of everyone's time and it's counterproductive. You race-baiters aren't fooling me!!

Those were Robert Ingersoll's words, did you somehow "miss" or avoid the entire context of what he was saying? I agree that the "past is the past" but do you have an aversion for true American History? Robert Ingersoll was a Liberal and a Republican, he fought for the Union Army. He was an Abolitionist and a strong advocate of FREEDOM and Civil Liberties for EVERYONE.

How is showing the brilliant works of a WHITE MAN who was for FREEDOM and LIBERTY, suddenly "race baiting"? People who don't know history and it's lessons, are doomed to repeat it. How is learning about the founding of this country and how it evolved into what we have today; " a waste of everyone's time and it's counterproductive. "?

Black History month, that's right they have a whole month to themselves, was last month. Where were you? As for your claim this is just about history, please do me the favor of not pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining.

 

[katsteve2012]

Blowing up liberals guilt trip on white slavery...

Did Black People Own Slaves?

100 Amazing Facts About the Negro: Yes -- but why they did and how many they owned will surprise you.

By: Henry Louis Gates Jr. (Yes, THAT Professor Gates, the obuma " The Police acted stupidly" one!)

Posted: March 4 2013 12:03 AM

One of the most vexing questions in African-American history is whether free African Americans themselves owned slaves. The short answer to this question, as you might suspect, is yes, of course; some free black people in this country bought and sold other black people, and did so at least since 1654, continuing to do so right through the Civil War. For me, the really fascinating questions about black slave-owning are how many black "masters" were involved, how many slaves did they own and why did they own slaves?


The answers to these questions are complex, and historians have been arguing for some time over whether free blacks purchased family members as slaves in order to protect them -- motivated, on the one hand, by benevolence and philanthropy, as historian Carter G. Woodson put it, or whether, on the other hand, they purchased other black people "as an act of exploitation," primarily to exploit their free labor for profit, just as white slave owners did. The evidence shows that, unfortunately, both things are true. The great African-American historian, John Hope Franklin, states this clearly: "The majority of Negro owners of slaves had some personal interest in their property." But, he admits, "There were instances, however, in which free Negroes had a real economic interest in the institution of slavery and held slaves in order to improve their economic status."


In a fascinating essay reviewing this controversy, R. Halliburton shows that free black people have owned slaves "in each of the thirteen original states and later in every state that countenanced slavery," at least since Anthony Johnson and his wife Mary went to court in Virginia in 1654 to obtain the services of their indentured servant, a black man, John Castor, for life.


And for a time, free black people could even "own" the services of white indentured servants in Virginia as well. Free blacks owned slaves in Boston by 1724 and in Connecticut by 1783; by 1790, 48 black people in Maryland owned 143 slaves. One particularly notorious black Maryland farmer named Nat Butler "regularly purchased and sold Negroes for the Southern trade," Halliburton wrote.


Perhaps the most insidious or desperate attempt to defend the right of black people to own slaves was the statement made on the eve of the Civil War by a group of free people of color in New Orleans, offering their services to the Confederacy, in part because they were fearful for their own enslavement: "The free colored population [native] of Louisiana … own slaves, and they are dearly attached to their native land … and they are ready to shed their blood for her defense. They have no sympathy for abolitionism; no love for the North, but they have plenty for Louisiana … They will fight for her in 1861 as they fought [to defend New Orleans from the British] in 1814-1815."


These guys were, to put it bluntly, opportunists par excellence: As Noah Andre Trudeau and James G. Hollandsworth Jr. explain, once the war broke out, some of these same black men formed 14 companies of a militia composed of 440 men and were organized by the governor in May 1861 into "the Native Guards, Louisiana," swearing to fight to defend the Confederacy. Although given no combat role, the Guards -- reaching a peak of 1,000 volunteers -- became the first Civil War unit to appoint black officers.....


When New Orleans fell in late April 1862 to the Union, about 10 percent of these men, not missing a beat, now formed the Native Guard/Corps d'Afrique to defend the Union. Joel A. Rogers noted this phenomenon in his 100 Amazing Facts: "The Negro slave-holders, like the white ones, fought to keep their chattels in the Civil War." Rogers also notes that some black men, including those in New Orleans at the outbreak of the War, "fought to perpetuate slavery."...

So much more of interest here...

Black Slave Owners: Did They Exist? - The Root

They were certainly a very small minority of Black people. As you can see from what you quoted above; the majority of those Black slave owners "had a personal interest" (meaning family) in the slaves that they "owned". The FACT is that the MAJORITY of slave owner both numerically and per capita were White people, the institution of slavery in this country was enacted by........White people. Mr. Ingersoll stated it quite plainly in the quote I posted.

You should read this piece:
Volume 11 | The Ingersoll Times

700000 white people died to end slavery. Ohh and it ended in 1866. That's right not a single person alive today was a slave or a slave owner. Not one single white person, in USA, today has any reason to feel bad about slavery as NONE of them had ANYTHING to do with it.

You want to feel guilty for something that ended 148 years ago, be my guest but don't expect me or a majority to feel sorry about something we had nothing to do with.

Where did you read that "700,000 white people died to end slavery?"

 

[Pheonixops]

Oh my gosh. The founding "eagle" was a "buzzard?" If not for that founding eagle and the early flag you likely wouldn't be enjoying your freedom of speech today. The past is the past. Time to stop wallowing in it. Stirring a pot of spilt milk is a waste of everyone's time and it's counterproductive. You race-baiters aren't fooling me!!

Those were Robert Ingersoll's words, did you somehow "miss" or avoid the entire context of what he was saying? I agree that the "past is the past" but do you have an aversion for true American History? Robert Ingersoll was a Liberal and a Republican, he fought for the Union Army. He was an Abolitionist and a strong advocate of FREEDOM and Civil Liberties for EVERYONE.

How is showing the brilliant works of a WHITE MAN who was for FREEDOM and LIBERTY, suddenly "race baiting"? People who don't know history and it's lessons, are doomed to repeat it. How is learning about the founding of this country and how it evolved into what we have today; " a waste of everyone's time and it's counterproductive. "?

Black History month, that's right they have a whole month to themselves, was last month. Where were you? As for your claim this is just about history, please do me the favor of not pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining.

Wow!

Robert Ingersoll was a White guy and a Republican.

I was here last month, what about you? Here I am giving much respect to a Republican (Rober Ingersoll) and highlighting some of his works, and a Republican (You) by either party affiliation and or voting habits (I would assume), is upset that I am doing so. Go figure.

I don't think that you guys can poke holes in what he said, so you would rather do what you are doing right now.

Here's an alleged "hero" of both Republicans and conservatives introducing Mr Ingersoll before he gave his speech:

"The Hon. Frederick Douglass introduced him as follows:



Abou Ben Adhem—(may his tribe increase!)

Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,

And saw within the moonlight of his room,

Making it rich and like a lily in bloom,

An angel writing in a book of gold:

Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold;

And to the presence in the room he said,

“What writest thou?” The vision raised its head,

And, with a look made all of sweet accord,

Answered, “The names of those who love the Lord.”

“And is mine one?” asked Abou. “Nay, not so,”

Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,

But cheerily still; and said, “I pray thee, then,

Write me as one that loves his fellow-men.”

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night

It came again, with a great wakening light,

And showed the names whom love of God had blest;

And, lo! Ben Adhem’s name led all the rest.



I have the honor to introduce Robert G. Ingersoll."

Here's his speech:

ADDRESS ON THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT.

 

[Pheonixops]

I think that this thread is starting to demonstrate that the Republicans and conservatives today are not the same as the Republicans of yesteryear that they lay claim to. Look at the hostile responses that they have given about what a Union Colonel, Abolitionist, and Republican wrote. Some have described it as "race baiting", some tried to whitewash the history of slavery, one has even called this great American and Republican, as well as a Patriot who fought to free the slaves, that person even referred to him as a "pussy", not once but twice!


Too FUCKING FUNNY!

 

[Darkwind]

Pushing, coming to shoving, the results were that only 1.4 % of the population owned slaves, and of that .2-.3% were black! Now, as we know, many white "OWNERS" treated their slaves as household members, Take Jefferson for example, there's a whole offshoot of his line that are black people, originally fathered by him. Did he mistreat any of his slaves, or do you suppose the young black woman who gave birth to his child didn't have relations with him willingly?...I can't find any information that he mistreated anyone...can you?

When you're a slave, dipshit, you don;t get to "agree" to rape.

As for your other piles of crap:

The lie that only very few southerners owned slaves is a particularly rampant one in the Lost Cause meme.

Heard time and time again is the apology to somehow cast the southerners who went to war as fighting only for a noble cause, and not to protect slavery.

But when you consider more than one on four rebels who took up arms against the North came from slaveholding families (and one in two in a few other states) it presents a different picture.

One could say, yes, well, those were families - just because pop owned the slave, doesn't mean the boys did too.

However, that slave labor on their property, in some form or another, helped provide them food, shelter and money, and also helped formulate their future wealth they could, and most often did, inherit.

Slave labor provided so much of just about everything when it came to the commerce of the South.

The vast majority of slaveholding families (just shy of 90%) had under 20 slaves, 50% under 5. Now consider the sheer volume of slaves: Just shy of 4 million. Out of a total 9 million populace.

Slavery was everywhere, and touched their lives in every way -- they were full up to the brim in it, immersed in it, and that is why the "most southerners didn't own slaves" -- while true in raw numbers -- belies the notion in actuality those boys were fighting to preserve what they knew was literally their lifeblood.

Now Paper Mache, are you sure you haven't PLAGIARIZED any of that article you posted? BTW, the NORTH seems perfectly fine to go along with slavery until the south's economic power started to threaten the Norths power structure

Now, what about the PLAGIARISM of the CIC and his sidekick?

Actually, the slave issue didn't really come to a head until the westward expansion of the country in which the south felt that the number of states that were slave free threatened the number of states that allowed slavery and became an issue with the balance of power in the Senate, which at that time favored the South.

 

[Vigilante]

No, I don't know that, where did you get that information from, some neo-confederate revisionist website? I think that you need to read the actual accounts of the slaves who suffered through slavery. Why not start with Frederick Douglass' account. If slaves had it so "good" why were they constantly trying to find ways to get their freedom? Why was Frederick Douglass' an abolitionist?

As with any group, some had it better, some had it worse. Was death by another tribesman a better ending while in Africa, perhaps even eaten?

I think that you need to educate yourself by reading actual accounts from slaves and the brutality and debauchery they faced as such. If they allegedly had it better as slaves here in America, why did they try to escape and yearn to return to Africa? Have you ever read about the conditions on those slave ships? At least when they were slaves in Africa, they had the chance to return to their tribe or country.

In Africa, most tribes were at war with other tribes, men were constantly getting killed in those wars. When captured tribesmen were either killed outright or made slaves for the other tribes. This was black on black slavery. Was it worse here being beaten when you didn't do what the master wanted, and let's face facts masters weren't likely to KILL THEIR INVESTMENTS, that would be illogical! BUT, other tribes certainly weren't so restrained!

 

[Vigilante]

Hey, Paper Mache.....Still nothing about the President and V.P.'s plagiarism?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

They were certainly a very small minority of Black people. As you can see from what you quoted above; the majority of those Black slave owners "had a personal interest" (meaning family) in the slaves that they "owned". The FACT is that the MAJORITY of slave owner both numerically and per capita were White people, the institution of slavery in this country was enacted by........White people. Mr. Ingersoll stated it quite plainly in the quote I posted.

You should read this piece:
Volume 11 | The Ingersoll Times

700000 white people died to end slavery. Ohh and it ended in 1866. That's right not a single person alive today was a slave or a slave owner. Not one single white person, in USA, today has any reason to feel bad about slavery as NONE of them had ANYTHING to do with it.

You want to feel guilty for something that ended 148 years ago, be my guest but don't expect me or a majority to feel sorry about something we had nothing to do with.

Where did you read that "700,000 white people died to end slavery?"

You may want to read up on your civil war history after all this is supposedly a history thread.

 

[Pheonixops]

As with any group, some had it better, some had it worse. Was death by another tribesman a better ending while in Africa, perhaps even eaten?

I think that you need to educate yourself by reading actual accounts from slaves and the brutality and debauchery they faced as such. If they allegedly had it better as slaves here in America, why did they try to escape and yearn to return to Africa? Have you ever read about the conditions on those slave ships? At least when they were slaves in Africa, they had the chance to return to their tribe or country.

In Africa, most tribes were at war with other tribes, men were constantly getting killed in those wars. When captured tribesmen were either killed outright or made slaves for the other tribes. This was black on black slavery. Was it worse here being beaten when you didn't do what the master wanted, and let's face facts masters weren't likely to KILL THEIR INVESTMENTS, that would be illogical! BUT, other tribes certainly weren't so restrained!

Please provide a citation proving any of that garbage. Sure they had wars, sure they traded slaves, but it wansn't like the Tarzan movie you are trying to describe.

Masters and White people certainly DID kill slaves, there were PLENTY of laws that gave the slave a death penalty. One would be striking the master back or striking a white man.

 

[Vigilante]

I think that you need to educate yourself by reading actual accounts from slaves and the brutality and debauchery they faced as such. If they allegedly had it better as slaves here in America, why did they try to escape and yearn to return to Africa? Have you ever read about the conditions on those slave ships? At least when they were slaves in Africa, they had the chance to return to their tribe or country.

In Africa, most tribes were at war with other tribes, men were constantly getting killed in those wars. When captured tribesmen were either killed outright or made slaves for the other tribes. This was black on black slavery. Was it worse here being beaten when you didn't do what the master wanted, and let's face facts masters weren't likely to KILL THEIR INVESTMENTS, that would be illogical! BUT, other tribes certainly weren't so restrained!

Please provide a citation proving any of that garbage. Sure they had wars, sure they traded slaves, but it wansn't like the Tarzan movie you are trying to describe.

Masters and White people certainly DID kill slaves, there were PLENTY of laws that gave the slave a death penalty. One would be striking the master back or striking a white man.

What was the price of a strong slave back in the 1800-1860 period? Tribal war, try a Google for diverse links to it!

Hmmm. I found this "The average price of a bondsman, regardless of age, sex, or condition, rose from approximately $400 in 1850 to nearly $800 by 1860. During the late 1850s, prime male field hands aged eighteen to thirty cost on the average $1,200, and skilled slaves such as blacksmiths often were valued at more than $2,000. In comparison, good Texas cotton land could be bought for as little as six dollars an acre."

THAT was a LOT of money to KILL back then!

And another find from Wiki answers....$ 1000 in 1860 would cost $ 23594.24 in 2009....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I was wrong 590000 white men died to free the slaves in the civil war and 30000 black men.

https://www.phil.muni.cz/~vndrzl/amstudies/civilwar_stats.htm

Another 400000 were wounded.

 

[paperview]

More than a million casualties caused by the Souths desire to preserve and protect human bondage.

Is that not enough?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

More than a million casualties caused by the Souths desire to preserve and protect human bondage.

Is that not enough?

Slavery still exists. Both in Africa and women around the world.

 

[Vigilante]

More than a million casualties caused by the Souths desire to preserve and protect human bondage.

Is that not enough?

Slavery still exists. Both in Africa and women around the world.

But that's not liberal guilt! It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy when dealing with American slavery, yet they care little for what you have described!

 

[paperview]

More than a million casualties caused by the Souths desire to preserve and protect human bondage.

Is that not enough?

Slavery still exists. Both in Africa and women around the world.

Illegal atrocities will always exist.

Surprise!

 

[Vigilante]

More than a million casualties caused by the Souths desire to preserve and protect human bondage.

Is that not enough?

Slavery still exists. Both in Africa and women around the world.

Illegal atrocities will always exist.

Surprise!

But this is happening now in Africa, and to women all over the world...not over 140 years ago, Paper Mache!

 

[katsteve2012]

What, NO BIG RED LETTERS?..... Come on you can do better than that, where's the RACIST, BIGOT, HOMOPHOBE, SEXIST remarks that the faggot subversives are so famous for? I just put a nail in the wall of your brain, did you feel it, or being brain dead you can't feel anything?...Oh, this mornings entertainment is getting better,

"Lol" is right. Someone objecting to the allegation of being a "homophobe" by referring to someone as a "faggot" in response to it, has got to be one of the most humorous statements of all time.

Well, I TRIED, glad to see someone got a chuckle out of it! Even a subversive!

I have good reason to believe that your attempt at "humor" was not intentional and was more of a "Freudian Slip". So please don't flatter yourself.

 

[katsteve2012]

I think that this thread is starting to demonstrate that the Republicans and conservatives today are not the same as the Republicans of yesteryear that they lay claim to. Look at the hostile responses that they have given about what a Union Colonel, Abolitionist, and Republican wrote. Some have described it as "race baiting", some tried to whitewash the history of slavery, one has even called this great American and Republican, as well as a Patriot who fought to free the slaves, that person even referred to him as a "pussy", not once but twice!


Too FUCKING FUNNY!

Indeed. I would think that those here who routinely castigate the Democratic party as "The Party of Slavery" and uphold the Republicans as "The Party of Freedom and Morality" (although the date stamp on that title expired decades ago) would be thrilled with your thread.

Speaking for myself, I think both parties currently leave much to be desired.

 

[Vigilante]

"Lol" is right. Someone objecting to the allegation of being a "homophobe" by referring to someone as a "faggot" in response to it, has got to be one of the most humorous statements of all time.

Well, I TRIED, glad to see someone got a chuckle out of it! Even a subversive!

I have good reason to believe that your attempt at "humor" was not intentional and was more of a "Freudian Slip". So please don't flatter yourself.

Would FAGERAL be funnier?

 

[katsteve2012]

700000 white people died to end slavery. Ohh and it ended in 1866. That's right not a single person alive today was a slave or a slave owner. Not one single white person, in USA, today has any reason to feel bad about slavery as NONE of them had ANYTHING to do with it.

You want to feel guilty for something that ended 148 years ago, be my guest but don't expect me or a majority to feel sorry about something we had nothing to do with.

Where did you read that "700,000 white people died to end slavery?"

You may want to read up on your civil war history after all this is supposedly a history thread.

Been there and done that numerous times. You might want to re read whatever source you got the number 700,000 from. Unless you imagined it.

You do realize that one side fought to preserve the Union which resulted in slavery ending, and one side fought for states rights which included preserving the institution of slavery?

The combined deaths of the Union and Confederate side from combat wounds and disease were around 640,000, and in case you did not know it, there were some black soldiers in that number as well.

American Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Black Soldiers in the Civil War