Wow, yet another problem with windmills that I didn't know about.

[progressive hunter]

they passed that hurdle yrs ago,,,the good ones produce far more than they take to make them,,,

Oh really? I admit it's been years since I read up on them...I'll check that out.

Thanks for the info!

this is just one of many links I found,,,

Solar Panels Produce Far More Energy Than They Consume | EarthTechling


I will say I think that solar is a great idea in many places but it will never be a full replacement,,why every house in phoenix doesnt have solar panels confuses me

So I actually know someone who has family in Arizona. Their experience was they installed a large number on the roof, and some rodents of some sort, or birds, damaged the panel, resulting in a short that burned out the entire array. They lost all the money, and determined to never do it again. You have to have the array work for decades, for it to pay off. If something damages it before then, or if you wire something wrong, or it breaks for any reason... you are just screwed.

The companies that sell these, know to be very careful about what the warranty covers.

decades my ass,,,

and all those problems and warranty issue apply to any product

Well.... yes.

Decades.. yes. If you think you are going to make back the money on a solar panel in 5 years... you are insane.

Here in Ohio, the cost of electricity is 9 cents per kilowatt hour. A one kilowatt solar panel pack, is $1,230. Divide 1230 / 0.09 = 13666. Your 1 kw solar panels, need to produce at least 13,666 kilowatts, and that just covers the cost of the panels.

According to PVWatts Calculator (government website) I can expect these panels to produce roughly 1,320 kilowatts a year.

13666 / 1320 = 10 years.

Here's the kicker.... that's just for the panels. That doesn't include all the wiring, the power inverters, the batteries, the control system. Nothing. The panels alone, you are lucky to break even in 10 years. By the way, that doesn't include installation. Hope you are good climbing on your own roof, and drilling holes, and installing an electrical network.

For an entire off grid kit.... $3,166. Decades. That's how long it's going to take to break even.

So just to do some quick numbers for Arizona. $3,166 full kit / 11 cents per kwh = 28,780.
A 1 KW system in Arizona should produce on average about 1700 kwh per year.
28780 / 1700 = 17 years to break even. Almost two decades.

So once again, as it has for the last 10 years I've checked the numbers on solar panels, it still even to this day, takes decades to break even on them... assuming they continue to function for decades.

and all those problems and warranty issue apply to any product

While true... there is a huge difference between my computer, or my TV, and buying a solar panel.

I'm not trying to make money... or in this case... save money, by buying a TV. If my TV burns out after 10 years.... I'm good. I just buy another one. I wasn't trying to somehow make a return on my investment.

If my solar panels burn out after 10 years.... then I literally flushed money down the drain, for no benefit.

A TV, I gain a benefit from it, all during the time it is running, in the form of entertainment.

When a solar panel is operating, nothing is different in my life, than if there is no solar panel.

The only benefit to it's existence, is if I end up with a net saving of money, on my investment.

Thus if the solar panel does not last long enough to make that Return On Investment (ROI), then I honestly would have gotten more use from my money, by taking my cash outside, and setting on fire, and roasting a hot dog over the burning bills.

If the solar panels are damaged by dust, which shorts it out, or by rodents, or by a hail damage, or a tree limb, or anything else.... then I am out thousands of dollars for absolutely nothing.

theres a world of difference between decades and 5 yrs,,,


and as I said it makes sense in pheonix cant speak for ohio,,,

 

[Andylusion]

And this isn't surprising either when you look at the power generation numbers.

Which you obviously haven't done...

What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source?
U.S. electricity generation by source, amount, and share of total in 2018

What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)​

Those were the exact numbers I was looking at. After billions on billions of dollars spent, barely 6.6% of the total power production in the entire country?

That's a fail dude.

 

[Andylusion]

Oh really? I admit it's been years since I read up on them...I'll check that out.

Thanks for the info!

this is just one of many links I found,,,

Solar Panels Produce Far More Energy Than They Consume | EarthTechling


I will say I think that solar is a great idea in many places but it will never be a full replacement,,why every house in phoenix doesnt have solar panels confuses me

So I actually know someone who has family in Arizona. Their experience was they installed a large number on the roof, and some rodents of some sort, or birds, damaged the panel, resulting in a short that burned out the entire array. They lost all the money, and determined to never do it again. You have to have the array work for decades, for it to pay off. If something damages it before then, or if you wire something wrong, or it breaks for any reason... you are just screwed.

The companies that sell these, know to be very careful about what the warranty covers.

decades my ass,,,

and all those problems and warranty issue apply to any product

Well.... yes.

Decades.. yes. If you think you are going to make back the money on a solar panel in 5 years... you are insane.

Here in Ohio, the cost of electricity is 9 cents per kilowatt hour. A one kilowatt solar panel pack, is $1,230. Divide 1230 / 0.09 = 13666. Your 1 kw solar panels, need to produce at least 13,666 kilowatts, and that just covers the cost of the panels.

According to PVWatts Calculator (government website) I can expect these panels to produce roughly 1,320 kilowatts a year.

13666 / 1320 = 10 years.

Here's the kicker.... that's just for the panels. That doesn't include all the wiring, the power inverters, the batteries, the control system. Nothing. The panels alone, you are lucky to break even in 10 years. By the way, that doesn't include installation. Hope you are good climbing on your own roof, and drilling holes, and installing an electrical network.

For an entire off grid kit.... $3,166. Decades. That's how long it's going to take to break even.

So just to do some quick numbers for Arizona. $3,166 full kit / 11 cents per kwh = 28,780.
A 1 KW system in Arizona should produce on average about 1700 kwh per year.
28780 / 1700 = 17 years to break even. Almost two decades.

So once again, as it has for the last 10 years I've checked the numbers on solar panels, it still even to this day, takes decades to break even on them... assuming they continue to function for decades.

and all those problems and warranty issue apply to any product

While true... there is a huge difference between my computer, or my TV, and buying a solar panel.

I'm not trying to make money... or in this case... save money, by buying a TV. If my TV burns out after 10 years.... I'm good. I just buy another one. I wasn't trying to somehow make a return on my investment.

If my solar panels burn out after 10 years.... then I literally flushed money down the drain, for no benefit.

A TV, I gain a benefit from it, all during the time it is running, in the form of entertainment.

When a solar panel is operating, nothing is different in my life, than if there is no solar panel.

The only benefit to it's existence, is if I end up with a net saving of money, on my investment.

Thus if the solar panel does not last long enough to make that Return On Investment (ROI), then I honestly would have gotten more use from my money, by taking my cash outside, and setting on fire, and roasting a hot dog over the burning bills.

If the solar panels are damaged by dust, which shorts it out, or by rodents, or by a hail damage, or a tree limb, or anything else.... then I am out thousands of dollars for absolutely nothing.

theres a world of difference between decades and 5 yrs,,,


and as I said it makes sense in pheonix cant speak for ohio,,,

Um... none of my calculations based on government sources, stated electrical prices, and costs of equipment, came out to 5 years. 15 to 20 years is the consistent answer, based on the numbers. That's decades.

 

[francoHFW]

Windmills and solar panels are net energy negative.

It takes more energy (from oil) to build them than they give back in their usable life time.

Which means they are NOT an energy source!

Yet another "great" idea from the leftist-greenies! What's next? Run cars on coal? (which is what electricity is produced from)..

That is not true.
They do have about a 10 year pay back time, but they last more than 20 years.
I have done solar and wind many times, and they are very low maintenance in general.
There are some 50 years old that are going strong yet.

Windmills are extremely high maintenance. If you claim otherwise you don't know what you are talking about. Solar modules are in general light maintenance dependent.

They must be cleaned regularly otherwise the dust that accumulates will cut efficiency by over 50%.

LOL and how clean are oil refineries and fracking in our groundwater and the air that you breathe with all these gas powered cars? Do you enjoy oil spills like BP and Exxon Valdez and every few days as far as pipelines and railroads are concerned?this voluntary switch over to clean energy would work a lot better if we didn't have 30% of the country brainwashed into believing it is a communist plot, right super duper hater dupe? The Chevy volt was probably the greatest car in history, won the car of the year awards on both sides of the Atlantic oh, but you Chumps believe there was a communist plot. Absolute idiocy LOL. Nobody is saying you can't have a gas-powered car if you want one. They certainly are not taking away my Alfa Romeo. Duke duke duke duke Duke of Earl... Sorry about that it's picking up on the Buffalo bills weekday MSG program. Duke Williams man remember that name. And I would like to nominate the Buffalo bills as the NFL team that comes from the most highly Democratic City. Just guessing. And yes that is because it is highly black, meaning is not all that liberal they certainly know where the bullshiting bigots are.....

 

[francoHFW]

Windmills cause cancer and kill little birdies

Drill baby, drill!

We have 400 windmills within 20 miles here and you are full of s*** if you believe that stuff....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Windmills and solar panels are net energy negative.

It takes more energy (from oil) to build them than they give back in their usable life time.

Which means they are NOT an energy source!

Yet another "great" idea from the leftist-greenies! What's next? Run cars on coal? (which is what electricity is produced from)..

That is not true.
They do have about a 10 year pay back time, but they last more than 20 years.
I have done solar and wind many times, and they are very low maintenance in general.
There are some 50 years old that are going strong yet.

Windmills are extremely high maintenance. If you claim otherwise you don't know what you are talking about. Solar modules are in general light maintenance dependent.

They must be cleaned regularly otherwise the dust that accumulates will cut efficiency by over 50%.

LOL and how clean are oil refineries and fracking in our groundwater and the air that you breathe with all these gas powered cars? Do you enjoy oil spills like BP and Exxon Valdez and every few days as far as pipelines and railroads are concerned?this voluntary switch over to clean energy would work a lot better if we didn't have 30% of the country brainwashed into believing it is a communist plot, right super duper hater dupe? The Chevy volt was probably the greatest car in history, won the car of the year awards on both sides of the Atlantic oh, but you Chumps believe there was a communist plot. Absolute idiocy LOL. Nobody is saying you can't have a gas-powered car if you want one. They certainly are not taking away my Alfa Romeo. Duke duke duke duke Duke of Earl... Sorry about that it's picking up on the Buffalo bills weekday MSG program. Duke Williams man remember that name. And I would like to nominate the Buffalo bills as the NFL team that comes from the most highly Democratic City. Just guessing. And yes that is because it is highly black, meaning is not all that liberal they certainly know where the bullshiting bigots are.....

What fossil fuels are you still using?

 

[MarathonMike]

Don't bury them. Make a monument to Green Energy out of them, so that we can gaze at the stupidity every day.

 

[francoHFW]

Windmills and solar panels are net energy negative.

It takes more energy (from oil) to build them than they give back in their usable life time.

Which means they are NOT an energy source!

Yet another "great" idea from the leftist-greenies! What's next? Run cars on coal? (which is what electricity is produced from)..

That is not true.
They do have about a 10 year pay back time, but they last more than 20 years.
I have done solar and wind many times, and they are very low maintenance in general.
There are some 50 years old that are going strong yet.

Windmills are extremely high maintenance. If you claim otherwise you don't know what you are talking about. Solar modules are in general light maintenance dependent.

They must be cleaned regularly otherwise the dust that accumulates will cut efficiency by over 50%.

LOL and how clean are oil refineries and fracking in our groundwater and the air that you breathe with all these gas powered cars? Do you enjoy oil spills like BP and Exxon Valdez and every few days as far as pipelines and railroads are concerned?this voluntary switch over to clean energy would work a lot better if we didn't have 30% of the country brainwashed into believing it is a communist plot, right super duper hater dupe? The Chevy volt was probably the greatest car in history, won the car of the year awards on both sides of the Atlantic oh, but you Chumps believe there was a communist plot. Absolute idiocy LOL. Nobody is saying you can't have a gas-powered car if you want one. They certainly are not taking away my Alfa Romeo. Duke duke duke duke Duke of Earl... Sorry about that it's picking up on the Buffalo bills weekday MSG program. Duke Williams man remember that name. And I would like to nominate the Buffalo bills as the NFL team that comes from the most highly Democratic City. Just guessing. And yes that is because it is highly black, meaning is not all that liberal they certainly know where the bullshiting bigots are.....

What fossil fuels are you still using?

once again you get the award for the stupidest bulshit and questions ever. If I believed in ignoring you would be number one on my list. Shut the hell up. LOL.

 

[francoHFW]

Don't bury them. Make a monument to Green Energy out of them, so that we can gaze at the stupidity every day.

Is there a respected media outlet that has this ridiculous story? We have 400 wind turbines within 20 miles and we have never seen any parts being taken away again... The birds are not being killed, there's no problem with radio TV interference, cancer my ass. You people know so much garbage propaganda and your propaganda machine never retracts any of this crap.... Brainwashed functional morons.... How about that big dust problem with solar panels? LOL OMG

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Windmills and solar panels are net energy negative.

It takes more energy (from oil) to build them than they give back in their usable life time.

Which means they are NOT an energy source!

Yet another "great" idea from the leftist-greenies! What's next? Run cars on coal? (which is what electricity is produced from)..

That is not true.
They do have about a 10 year pay back time, but they last more than 20 years.
I have done solar and wind many times, and they are very low maintenance in general.
There are some 50 years old that are going strong yet.

Windmills are extremely high maintenance. If you claim otherwise you don't know what you are talking about. Solar modules are in general light maintenance dependent.

They must be cleaned regularly otherwise the dust that accumulates will cut efficiency by over 50%.

LOL and how clean are oil refineries and fracking in our groundwater and the air that you breathe with all these gas powered cars? Do you enjoy oil spills like BP and Exxon Valdez and every few days as far as pipelines and railroads are concerned?this voluntary switch over to clean energy would work a lot better if we didn't have 30% of the country brainwashed into believing it is a communist plot, right super duper hater dupe? The Chevy volt was probably the greatest car in history, won the car of the year awards on both sides of the Atlantic oh, but you Chumps believe there was a communist plot. Absolute idiocy LOL. Nobody is saying you can't have a gas-powered car if you want one. They certainly are not taking away my Alfa Romeo. Duke duke duke duke Duke of Earl... Sorry about that it's picking up on the Buffalo bills weekday MSG program. Duke Williams man remember that name. And I would like to nominate the Buffalo bills as the NFL team that comes from the most highly Democratic City. Just guessing. And yes that is because it is highly black, meaning is not all that liberal they certainly know where the bullshiting bigots are.....

What fossil fuels are you still using?

once again you get the award for the stupidest bulshit and questions ever. If I believed in ignoring you would be number one on my list. Shut the hell up. LOL.

You're whining like a little *****, but still using fossil fuels.

That's awesome!

 

[francoHFW]

So there is no respected media with this story, so this is stupid bulshit propaganda as always, super duper dupes. You're the worst voters in the world and the propaganda machine is the worst thing that has happened in my lifetime since 1951....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So there is no respected media with this story, so this is stupid bulshit propaganda as always, super duper dupes. You're the worst voters in the world and the propaganda machine is the worst thing that has happened in my lifetime since 1951....

So says the supertwat.

 

[francoHFW]

So there is no respected media with this story, so this is stupid bulshit propaganda as always, super duper dupes. You're the worst voters in the world and the propaganda machine is the worst thing that has happened in my lifetime since 1951....

So says the supertwat.

Prove me wrong, brainwashed functional moron. Cut the crap. LOL

 

[Kilroy2]

Englund is chief technology officer for Global Fiberglass Solutions (GFS), a Bothell, Wash.-based company that is hoping to make some of its own green by recycling the blades into pellets and boards. The company has developed – and is scaling up – a plant in Sweetwater, Texas to recycle fiberglass from wind turbine blades and other sources.

It can be done but it still in its infancy and you go to be willing to do it instead of taking the easy way out of burying it

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So there is no respected media with this story, so this is stupid bulshit propaganda as always, super duper dupes. You're the worst voters in the world and the propaganda machine is the worst thing that has happened in my lifetime since 1951....

So says the supertwat.

Prove me wrong, brainwashed functional moron. Cut the crap. LOL

You said fossil fuels are bad, but still use them.

That's not wrong? DURR

You said that "honest scientists" said in 12 years warming is irreversible if we do nothing.

That's not wrong? Prove it. DURR

No comment on Germans paying triple the rate we do for power?

Hehe

 

[francoHFW]

So there is no respected media with this story, so this is stupid bulshit propaganda as always, super duper dupes. You're the worst voters in the world and the propaganda machine is the worst thing that has happened in my lifetime since 1951....

So says the supertwat.

Prove me wrong, brainwashed functional moron. Cut the crap. LOL

You said fossil fuels are bad, but still use them.

That's not wrong? DURR

You said that "honest scientists" said in 12 years warming is irreversible if we do nothing.

That's not wrong? Prove it. DURR

No comment on Germans paying triple the rate we do for power?

Hehe

Liar and brain-washed functional moron. Great job. Lol....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So there is no respected media with this story, so this is stupid bulshit propaganda as always, super duper dupes. You're the worst voters in the world and the propaganda machine is the worst thing that has happened in my lifetime since 1951....

So says the supertwat.

Prove me wrong, brainwashed functional moron. Cut the crap. LOL

You said fossil fuels are bad, but still use them.

That's not wrong? DURR

You said that "honest scientists" said in 12 years warming is irreversible if we do nothing.

That's not wrong? Prove it. DURR

No comment on Germans paying triple the rate we do for power?

Hehe

Liar and brain-washed functional moron. Great job. Lol....

Hypocritical **** says what?

 

[daveman]

Who woulda thunk it? Windmills really, really, suck!


Waste management experts estimate they’ll take hundreds of years to biodegrade






Hundreds of giant windmill blades are being shipped to a landfill in Wyoming to be buried because they simply can’t be recycled.Local media reports several wind farms in the state are sending over 900 un-reusable blades to the Casper Regional Landfill to be buried.


While nearly 90 percent of old or decommissioned wind turbines, like the motor housing, can be refurbished or at least crushed, fiberglass windmill blades present a problem due to their size and strength.



Landfill begins burying non-recyclable Wind Turbine Blades

I've known about these problems for a decade now. It's ridiculous how much of the "pro-Green Energy" people are completely ignorant about how toxic and polluting their 'green-energy' is.

The wind mill blades are made of extremely dangerous fiber glass, which can't be reused, or destroyed, because destroying them would send deadly fiberglass dust into the air. Additionally, the blades wear out constantly. And have to be replaced all the time, just like the generator, and electrical system has be replaced as well.

The same is true, of solar panels. Solar panels have tons of heavy metals in them, and yet can't be recycled, or melted down, or anything. They end up just polluting the ground in some landfill.

It's just amazing how bafflingly ignorant the 'eco-nuts' are. They run around screaming that Republicans want polluted air and water and so on, and yet they themselves are the biggest polluters.

Also, the left insists we use ethanol in our gasoline...despite the fact that the corn grown to make ethanol is responsible for a huge hypoxic area in the Gulf of Mexico.

Large 2019 dead zone in Gulf of Mexico

A dead zone of oxygen-depleted waters forms every summer in the Gulf of Mexico in response to nutrient runoff from the Mississippi River watershed. Scientists have been tracking the summer dead zone for 33 years now, and they have found that this year’s area of low oxygen waters extends for 6,952 square miles (18,006 square km). It is the 8th largest dead zone ever recorded.
​

Not to mention, ethanol production of fuel is a net energy loss.

Professor Ted Patzek, a geoengineering professor at UC Berkley, initially calculated that producing ethanol results in a 65% energy loss. When he looked at it in more detail, including things like fuel used to produce fertilizer, waste water costs, energy used in transportation and other energies involved in ethanol production he concluded that energy consumption may be as high as six times that produced.
​

But, hey...the environment doesn't matter. All that matters is liberals feel good about themselves.

Republicans and Democrats criticize EPA decision on ethanol waivers

I have almost always opposed ethanol production. It really doesn't make any sense.

But the Midwest loves it- both Democrats and Republicans.

I've never heard an "environmentalist" speak against it.

 

[daveman]

He is correct. Solar panels take at least 12 years to pay for themselves . Solar is best used off grid. I have a solar system I built almost 30 years ago. It took 24 years to pay for itself, but I live in the mountains so they are almost useless in the winter.

off grid is one of the best, but combined with a grid tie system they work great and depending on use and location they can pay for themselves in less than 10 yrs, and due to the advance in tech they can make you a profit,,,

I do think the solar farm idea is not the way to go,

The only way you can make a profit is via subsidy. I actually have one so my experience ain't theoretical.

Also not up to date.....
You Can Qualify For Free Home Solar Panels
You can actually get solar panels installed on your home at absolutely no charge to you. But wait, that's not all, not only can you get solar panels installed for free you also get dramatically reduced monthly electricity bills with fixed rates for as long as 25 years.
View attachment 283263
mySolar Home Solar › free-ho...
Free Home Solar Panels - mySolar

They also have much better cheaper solar panels now than they did 25 years ago....

Where do you think the money comes for those "free" solar panels?

Good gosh but you're one stupid little hater dupe!

good gosh but you are a brainwashed functional moron. You see how I use the political insult instead of a stupid personal insult, super duper? your propaganda machine is a disgrace and the biggest story in politics last 30 years. The silent majority is now the loudmouth brainwashed functional moron majority LOL and yes we will have to tax the rich more to make our Society Fair again.

Oh, shut the **** up, you stupid Commie.

 

[francoHFW]

off grid is one of the best, but combined with a grid tie system they work great and depending on use and location they can pay for themselves in less than 10 yrs, and due to the advance in tech they can make you a profit,,,

I do think the solar farm idea is not the way to go,

The only way you can make a profit is via subsidy. I actually have one so my experience ain't theoretical.

Also not up to date.....
You Can Qualify For Free Home Solar Panels
You can actually get solar panels installed on your home at absolutely no charge to you. But wait, that's not all, not only can you get solar panels installed for free you also get dramatically reduced monthly electricity bills with fixed rates for as long as 25 years.
View attachment 283263
mySolar Home Solar › free-ho...
Free Home Solar Panels - mySolar

They also have much better cheaper solar panels now than they did 25 years ago....

Where do you think the money comes for those "free" solar panels?

Good gosh but you're one stupid little hater dupe!

good gosh but you are a brainwashed functional moron. You see how I use the political insult instead of a stupid personal insult, super duper? your propaganda machine is a disgrace and the biggest story in politics last 30 years. The silent majority is now the loudmouth brainwashed functional moron majority LOL and yes we will have to tax the rich more to make our Society Fair again.

Oh, shut the **** up, you stupid Commie.

your blind brainwashed love and admiration for our greedy idiot brainwashing Rich GOP assholes is touching, super duper LOL