Would a Progressive Society be a Free Society?

[bripat9643]

Wrong.
Communism is where the population pools some of its resources into making the means of production that they then own as a group.
They then share profits and management.

Stalin and Lenin were absolute capitalists instead, because they shared nothing with those whose money they took, and they were instead totally profit motivated for themselves.

For communism to exist, the means of production have to communally owned.
Nothing was communally owned under Stalin or Mao, but instead were owned by the central committee.
That is identical to the capitalism of any monarchy.
Stalin and Mao can claim to be anything and it does make it so.
The definition of communism requires communal, collective, and cooperative ownership and management, which obviously was NOT the case under Stalin or Mao.
Instead they were the wealthy elite of a capitalist dicatorship.

But by the way, your claim, "Stalin ... ordered their crops burned and the ground salted", is an absolute ridiculous lie.
The crops were Stalin's profits, so that is the last thing he would have done.
If he wanted to starve the Kulaks, he would have just waited to confiscate the harvest, not burn it and deprive himself of the profits.

Sure they did. They all got a share in the gold they mined in Siberia. Just because it was all spent on tanks and bombers doesn't mean they didn't get a share of it.

 

[bripat9643]

Not at all.
Lots of countries realize that it is in the best interests of their whole society if new production can get the financing they need. And the public can provide that financing through shared tax revenue if the people want.
Like in European countries, where the government invests in companies and gets board members in return.
For example, the government of Sweden owns about 50% of Volvo.
REAL communism has NEVER failed, and really there is no way it could.
The danger comes not from popular communism, but from private capitalist corruption.

We call that system "fascism."

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong.
Democrats are being progressively taken over by large multi national corporations, which are insanely capitalist.
Look at all the things becoming unaffordable, like health care, education, housing, etc.
The wealthy elite made health insurance an expensive monopoly, higher education went from $100/semester to $15k/semester in 50 years, and wealthy landlords are buying up 70% of all new housing.
The democratic party has obviously been taken over by capitalists.
Nothing at all communist about them.
If they were communists, we would have had public health care decades ago,

Government is the most heavily involved in all the industries you've named, but somehow capitalism is responsible for the high cost?

 

[bripat9643]

That is a silly interpretation of the word "progressive" since the Founders called themselves "progressives" for wanting individual rights instead of royal decrees that were the previous precedent.
The word "progressive" just means improved changes, and has no negative connotation.
Do you want to be "conservative" of old ways like slavery, monarchies, etc.?

The founders called themselves "progressive?" I suppose you have some evidence for this claim.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wrong.
Democrats are being progressively taken over by large multi national corporations, which are insanely capitalist.
Look at all the things becoming unaffordable, like health care, education, housing, etc.
The wealthy elite made health insurance an expensive monopoly, higher education went from $100/semester to $15k/semester in 50 years, and wealthy landlords are buying up 70% of all new housing.
The democratic party has obviously been taken over by capitalists.
Nothing at all communist about them.
If they were communists, we would have had public health care decades ago,

They didn't have the power or the money for healthcare. Last time they thought about healthcare the CBO ran the numbers, and it would cost us as much as our current budget for everything. It can't be done.

The government is taking over industry little by little. Now industry is basing their operations on Democrat agendas like climate change, keeping records of firearms purchases, forcing their employees to get shots and to attend CRT classes. Making sure they employ enough weirdos and freaks.

Yes, the Democrat party was taken over by the Communists 20 years ago or so, and that's why they are taking over industry one step at a time.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No they want to censor incredibly divisive totally discredited stupid anti American election fraud propaganda. And a lot of other baloney about pedophile Democrats vaccine hoax pandemic hoax global warming hoax. Good for nothing garbage that you believe lol AA RR GG HHH....

Are you stupid or something? Why do you think free speech is protected in our Constitution? Because all speech is welcome, not just what the commies approve of. If the only free speech we are allowed is what the Communists allow, then we don't have free speech, now do we?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well of course, they have totally disappeared, they basically have a web page. Maybe a telephone number. Lol because nobody is interested in communism anymore here except for nuts... communist countries had a living wage healthcare daycare paid parental leave cheap college and training great infrastructure and vacations but they also had dictatorship. Socialist countries have all those things but are democracies . Everybody knows that in the world except for English speaking dupes . Winston Churchill is alive and well . England got socialism of a cheap sort anyway after World War Two period but the United states is the only modern country that doesn't have it because socialism is those things and not much more, in fact if we had health care they would call us socialist but we still have people in GOP backwaters that have nothing.

You're damn right, and we will keep fighting against Socialism/ Communism to our dying breaths.

 

[francoHFW]

Are you stupid or something? Why do you think free speech is protected in our Constitution? Because all speech is welcome, not just what the commies approve of. If the only free speech we are allowed is what the Communists allow, then we don't have free speech, now do we?

The ignoramuses of the GOP base are hypnotized by television and Internet just like the ignoramuses of 1930 Germany were hypnotized by the radio broadcasts and giant speeches of Adolf. You're out of your tiny little mind. What we need is better education and enough with the clickbait and punditry of fox MSNBC and CNN. Although CNN and MSNBC don't actually lie like fox does, but they do give way too much respect for absolute garbage GOP scumbags and BS. All they care about is controversy and ratings. Try watching a news program, which fox admits it is not, they say they are propaganda and no reasonable person would believe them, and that is how they win in court. You're unbelievable. And you have plenty of company poor America....

 

[Rigby5]

I don't care what it means, I care about how they conduct themselves. All kinds of evidence on how they want to silence any speech from the right from social media to colleges across the country.

Progressive for Democrats means progress towards Communism and a single-party country forever.

What it means matters because by controlling words, the wealthy control what we think we want.
When Sweden invested in 50% of the capital to create Volvo, did that make Sweden a dictatorship?
Of course not.
A dictatorship is when a wealthy elite prohibits power to the majority, so that they can unfairly profit from them.
That is exactly what capitalism always tends toward.
Every single dictatorship, monarchy, feudal authoritarian state has always been profit motivated capitalism.

Communism and socialism are the exact opposite, with joint ventures that then require popular input.
The false impression created by propaganda, is that communism and socialism somehow mean no elections and a dictatorship.
That is not only wrong, but the opposite of the truth, since the risk of dictatorship comes from the profit motivated, wealthy elite, controlling the masses by propaganda and government officials by bribes.
With communism there should not be any wealthy elite, because everyone would be profiting equally from joint ventures.
Communism and socialism require a democratic republic, where the population then chooses what ventures they would like to communally invest in.

 

[Rigby5]

Absolutely totally irrelevant to reality. Communists don't exist except with a gun to their head China Vietnam and Cuba. What is relevant is that the GOP is a disgrace and a gigantic giveaway to the greedy idiot rich and they do it by the worst propaganda crap ever seen in this country by far.

Wrong.
Communism is the nature order of all human societies, and will always exist even in our ultra capitalist society, in family units.
The ONLY way you are ever going to get rid of the "greedy idiot rich" and their control over the media, is by competing against them with public ventures we all profit equally from.

 

[Rigby5]

Well of course, they have totally disappeared, they basically have a web page. Maybe a telephone number. Lol because nobody is interested in communism anymore here except for nuts... communist countries had a living wage healthcare daycare paid parental leave cheap college and training great infrastructure and vacations but they also had dictatorship. Socialist countries have all those things but are democracies . Everybody knows that in the world except for English speaking dupes . Winston Churchill is alive and well . England got socialism of a cheap sort anyway after World War Two period but the United states is the only modern country that doesn't have it because socialism is those things and not much more, in fact if we had health care they would call us socialist but we still have people in GOP backwaters that have nothing.

Communism can ONLY exist in a democracy, just like socialism.
Whenever you have a dictatorship, that is always capitalist because it is profit motivated.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What it means matters because by controlling words, the wealthy control what we think we want.
When Sweden invested in 50% of the capital to create Volvo, did that make Sweden a dictatorship?
Of course not.
A dictatorship is when a wealthy elite prohibits power to the majority, so that they can unfairly profit from them.
That is exactly what capitalism always tends toward.
Every single dictatorship, monarchy, feudal authoritarian state has always been profit motivated capitalism.

Communism and socialism are the exact opposite, with joint ventures that then require popular input.
The false impression created by propaganda, is that communism and socialism somehow mean no elections and a dictatorship.
That is not only wrong, but the opposite of the truth, since the risk of dictatorship comes from the profit motivated, wealthy elite, controlling the masses by propaganda and government officials by bribes.
With communism there should not be any wealthy elite, because everyone would be profiting equally from joint ventures.
Communism and socialism require a democratic republic, where the population then chooses what ventures they would like to communally invest in.

Socialism is the last step to Communism. Look at what the commies are trying to do now. They want a blanket amnesty for every illegal in this country. Giving them 20, 30, 40 million more votes means we will be a single-party country with no actual opposition. That means we will slip past Socialism right to Communism.

 

[francoHFW]

Communism can ONLY exist in a democracy, just like socialism.
Whenever you have a dictatorship, that is always capitalist because it is profit motivated.

The dictatorship of the proletariat is still a dictatorship. You are on some kind of hypothetical level that the real world does never reach. Communism is always a dictatorship with secret police that owns everything and it doesn't work. Always turns corrupt and violent. Like all dictatorships. I lived under generalissimo Francisco Franco a few times. There was always two soldiers or cops with submachine guns if you ever did anything wrong on the road and you paid your fine right there or die lol, no judges no trials. He was a Nazi by any other name

 

[francoHFW]

Wrong.
Communism is the nature order of all human societies, and will always exist even in our ultra capitalist society, in family units.
The ONLY way you are ever going to get rid of the "greedy idiot rich" and their control over the media, is by competing against them with public ventures we all profit equally from.

Or elect Democrats for crying out loud enough to give them power for a while....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Or elect Democrats for crying out loud enough to give them power for a while....

They've had two years, and look at the disaster this country is now. Hit a record in US gasoline prices, highest number of border encounters by the BP in history, highest inflation in 40 years, highest interest rates in 14 years, people who planned on retiring last and this year can't because of the stock market hit causing IRA's to lose trillions, and it's just starting.

 

[Rigby5]

Sure they did. They all got a share in the gold they mined in Siberia. Just because it was all spent on tanks and bombers doesn't mean they didn't get a share of it.

I never heard of any Siberian workers getting high pay in Russia.
There was no "profit sharing", so it was not at all communist.
The wealthy capitalists got their dacha on the Black Sea, and workers got almost nothing.
If there is not equal sharing, its not communism.

 

[Rigby5]

The dictatorship of the proletariat is still a dictatorship. You are on some kind of hypothetical level that the real world does never reach. Communism is always a dictatorship with secret police that owns everything and it doesn't work. Always turns corrupt and violent. Like all dictatorships. I lived under generalissimo Francisco Franco a few times. There was always two soldiers or cops with submachine guns if you ever did anything wrong on the road and you paid your fine right there or die lol, no judges no trials. He was a Nazi by any other name

Wrong.
The "proletariat" is everyone in a classless workers society, so Marx was obviously defining a democratic republic.
There really is no way to do communism without a democratic republic.
It is totally impossible, and we can tell because Stalin has to murder every single one of the actual communists.

And clearly Fancisco Franco's Spain was extremely capitalist.
It was Fascists, like Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany.
That is as anti-Communist as one can possibly get.
They did not even allow trade unions.
The rebels fighting against Franco were the communists.

 

[Rigby5]

Or elect Democrats for crying out loud enough to give them power for a while....

If you are saying that all politicians and government become more corrupt over time, that I would agree with.
But that has nothing to do with communism.
Communism has to be a democratic republic, with wealth sharing, so is the least corrupt to begin with.

 

[Rigby5]

They've had two years, and look at the disaster this country is now. Hit a record in US gasoline prices, highest number of border encounters by the BP in history, highest inflation in 40 years, highest interest rates in 14 years, people who planned on retiring last and this year can't because of the stock market hit causing IRA's to lose trillions, and it's just starting.

I do not particularly like the way things are, but lets not exaggerate.

High gasoline prices are not inflation, but due to economic sanctions against Russia.
Inflation is when prosperity is so high that people compete to buy more goods.

And interest rates are ridiculously low.

 

[Rigby5]

Socialism is the last step to Communism. Look at what the commies are trying to do now. They want a blanket amnesty for every illegal in this country. Giving them 20, 30, 40 million more votes means we will be a single-party country with no actual opposition. That means we will slip past Socialism right to Communism.

Come on.
Immigration is about cheap labor, so is something capitalists want, and has nothing to do with economic systems like capitalism, communism, or socialism.
Economic systems have nothing to do with how you choose political representatives.
I live in New Mexico, with lots of Hispanic natives and immigrants, and they tend to be more republican than democrat.