World reacts angrily - Who Cares? WHAH!

[-Cp]

World reacts angrily
Tancredo's threats against Muslim holy sites spark criticism

By M.E. Sprengelmeyer, Rocky Mountain News
July 20, 2005

WASHINGTON - From Turkey, from Russia and from the desk of Howard Dean - angry reaction to Rep. Tom Tancredo's threat against Muslim holy sites came from around the world Tuesday.

In Ankara, Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul blasted Tancredo's comments suggesting the United States could "take out" holy sites, including Mecca, if Islamic terrorists detonated nuclear bombs in U.S. cities.

"This was nothing but a fanatic speaking completely personally, irresponsibly and without thought of how far his statements would reach or what kind of problems they would create," Gul said, according to an Anatolia news agency report quoted by The Associated Press.

Despite an international outcry, the Colorado Republican continued to stand by his comments Tuesday, saying he did not intend to offend moderate Muslims during last week's interview with Florida radio talk show host Pat Campbell.

During the WFLA broadcast, Campbell referred to a report that Islamic terrorists hoped to strike several U.S. cities with nuclear weapons and he asked Tancredo how the United States could respond.

"Well, what if you said something like - if this happens in the United States, and we determine that it is the result of extremist, fundamentalist Muslims, you know, you could take out their holy sites," Tancredo answered.

"You're talking about bombing Mecca," Campbell said.

"Yeah," Tancredo responded.

He went on to say that he was "just throwing out some ideas" but that an "ultimate threat" might have to be met with an "ultimate response."

In Moscow, Russian parliament member Konstantin Kosachev denounced the remarks during a news conference.

"It's quite obvious that statements like the one just made by the U.S. lawmaker play into the terrorists' hands as they stir international strife and may lead to the emergence of new . . . suicide bombers," Kosachev said, according to the Russian news and information agency, Novosti.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Adam Ereli called Tancredo's remarks "insulting to Islam" and said they do not represent the U.S. government position to "respect the dignity and sanctity of other religions."

The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee and the Interfaith Alliance added their own denunciations.

Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, issued a statement calling Tancredo "utterly careless."

"Remarks threatening the destruction of holy sites akin to the Vatican or Jerusalem do nothing to win the hearts and minds of Muslims in the United States and abroad," Dean said.

Several groups have demanded that Tancredo apologize, but he rejected that call again Tuesday.

"One of the things I rail about quite often . . . is this sort of slavish adherence to political correctness that prevents us from talking about the world in which we live in real terms," Tancredo said.

On a day when he had hoped to be spreading the word about his new immigration reform legislation, he hunkered in his Capitol Hill office writing a lengthy talking-points memo explaining his Mecca comments.

"Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I believe something good can happen" as a result of the dialogue, Tancredo said. "As we begin to discuss this issue forthrightly and realize the horrendous consequences of continuing on the confrontational path we are on, perhaps we can use this to begin steps in a different direction."

He hopes his remarks spur moderate Muslims to identify and stop radicals before they get involved in terrorism.

Ironically, on the day Turkey's foreign minister was blasting Tancredo in Ankara, his country's U.S. ambassador, Osman Faruk Logoglu, had a prearranged meeting to talk to Tancredo about legislation pending in the International Relations Committee.

They touched on the Mecca comments only briefly, Tancredo said.

"The guy said, 'You know how these things get spun in the press,' " Tancredo said. "He was being very diplomatic."

The ambassador's office did not return phone messages seeking comment.

By the time the day was over, Tancredo had done numerous radio and cable television interviews. While he defended his comments on Fox News, black and white pictures of atomic blasts were shown on the screen.

Tancredo spokesman Will Adams celebrated his birthday Tuesday while fielding dozens of phone calls from reporters as far away at the United Arab Emirates.

Again, his boss was unapologetic.

"He signed up," Tancredo said. "He's in for the duration."

Tancredo's critics

Others who have criticized Rep. Tom Tancredo's remarks about Muslim holy sites:

• Mohammad Noorzai, coordinator of the Colorado Muslim Council

• The Council on American-Islamic Relations

• U.S. State Department spokesman Adam Ereli

• The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee

• The Interfaith Alliance

• Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean

• Online extra: To read a transcript of Tancredo's comments and to listen to the audio, click on Today's links at RockyMountainNews.com.


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3939704,00.html

 

[Gabriella84]

As a bitter old man with no real life options left in front of you, I can see why you wouldn't care if the U.S. pisses off the entire world. You can withdraw to your bunker and draw protection from your family militia.
The rest of us would enjoy living here a while.

 

[Merlin1047]

World reacts angrily
Tancredo's threats against Muslim holy sites spark criticism

By M.E. Sprengelmeyer, Rocky Mountain News
July 20, 2005

WASHINGTON - From Turkey, from Russia and from the desk of Howard Dean - angry reaction to Rep. Tom Tancredo's threat against Muslim holy sites came from around the world Tuesday.

In Ankara, Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul blasted Tancredo's comments suggesting the United States could "take out" holy sites, including Mecca, if Islamic terrorists detonated nuclear bombs in U.S. cities.

"This was nothing but a fanatic speaking completely personally, irresponsibly and without thought of how far his statements would reach or what kind of problems they would create," Gul said, according to an Anatolia news agency report quoted by The Associated Press.

Moronic, smartass replies from certain parties notwithstanding, it makes me wonder why moslems find this statement so offensive while having no problem whatever with the bombing of the WTC and the murder of over 3000 people. I wonder why they don't get upset at the suicide bombers who murdered and maimed people in London.

But let one American make a questionable statement and all the ragheads have their asses in the rafters. Let them take their hypocritical double standard and stuff it sideways.

 

[Gabriella84]

Moronic, smartass replies from certain parties notwithstanding, it makes me wonder why moslems find this statement so offensive while having no problem whatever with the bombing of the WTC and the murder of over 3000 people. I wonder why they don't get upset at the suicide bombers who murdered and maimed people in London.

A great many Muslim group DID express condemnation of the Sept. 11 attacks, the attacks in Spain, the attacks in Bali and the attacks in London. They DO condemn the continued suicide bombings in Iraq.
The problem is, like I said before, there is NO central Muslim belief. They are fractured into thousands of groups. Some are very peaceful, some are very militant. They have been known to fight amongst each other.
The news media enjoys focusing on the militant groups. They don't want to hear from the groups that want the militant groups gone.
The multitude of Muslim clerics are too busy jockeying for position and power to care about the others. They will never unite for any cause, regardless of what anyone says. They haven't agreed on anything for 6,000 years.
The only true Islamic leader is Allah. And he hasn't been around for a while.

 

[dilloduck]

A great many Muslim group DID express condemnation of the Sept. 11 attacks, the attacks in Spain, the attacks in Bali and the attacks in London. They DO condemn the continued suicide bombings in Iraq.
The problem is, like I said before, there is NO central Muslim belief. They are fractured into thousands of groups. Some are very peaceful, some are very militant. They have been known to fight amongst each other.
The news media enjoys focusing on the militant groups. They don't want to hear from the groups that want the militant groups gone.
The multitude of Muslim clerics are too busy jockeying for position and power to care about the others. They will never unite for any cause, regardless of what anyone says. They haven't agreed on anything for 6,000 years.
The only true Islamic leader is Allah. And he hasn't been around for a while.

damn---good post !

 

[pegwinn]

As a bitter old man with no real life options left in front of you, I can see why you wouldn't care if the U.S. pisses off the entire world. You can withdraw to your bunker and draw protection from your family militia.
The rest of us would enjoy living here a while.

Speaking of living here for a while, did you notice he was talking about a reprisal in the event of a NUCLEAR attack? Me, if we got nuked by terrorists I would turn the entire ME outside of Israel into a sheet of glass.

A great many Muslim group DID express condemnation of the Sept. 11 attacks, the attacks in Spain, the attacks in Bali and the attacks in London. They DO condemn the continued suicide bombings in Iraq.
The problem is, like I said before, there is NO central Muslim belief. They are fractured into thousands of groups. Some are very peaceful, some are very militant. They have been known to fight amongst each other.
The news media enjoys focusing on the militant groups. They don't want to hear from the groups that want the militant groups gone.
The multitude of Muslim clerics are too busy jockeying for position and power to care about the others. They will never unite for any cause, regardless of what anyone says. They haven't agreed on anything for 6,000 years.
The only true Islamic leader is Allah. And he hasn't been around for a while.

Now you see that makes sense. And the only logical argument I can muster is that this is an ISLAMIC issue as much as anything. So if the ISLAMIC peoples cannot unite to solve the problem, they will continue to get lumped in with the bad apples. Before you tell me that my answer is morally wrong, oh well. It is factually correct. And the first part of solving the problem is loading the gun right?

 

[Annie]

Excuse me here all you feel good Islamic apologists. There has been absolutely no problem in their communications of Fatwas or jihads. There has been no miscommunications regarding the foreign fighters. There is no problem in saying bin Laden doesn't 'speak' for Islam or that Islam is a 'peaceful religion.' So why the hell is there so many damn problems in saying, "Knock it off or our lands are going to be turned to glass?"

 

[Gabriella84]

There has been absolutely no problem in their communications of Fatwas or jihads. There has been no miscommunications regarding the foreign fighters. There is no problem in saying bin Laden doesn't 'speak' for Islam or that Islam is a 'peaceful religion.' So why the hell is there so many damn problems in saying, "Knock it off or our lands are going to be turned to glass?"

If you look it who is issuing the fatwas or jihads, it is ALWAYS individual clerics. Who only speak for themselves and not for everyone.
What everyone STILL refuses to consider is how fractured the Islamic community. If Bush or Blair speak, you know they represent the U.S. and England, as their elected leaders. No one elects a Muslim cleric. They merely seize control.
They do not have "lands." They have territories. The cleric of a town in Northern Iraq does care squat about the cleric of a town in Southern Iraq. They don't get together for coffee. They don't run around visiting each other like the leaders of the Western World do.

It's a like a brush fire. You might be fighting hundreds of different lines of fire. If Bush or Blair communicated with one cleric and got him to restrain all his militant opposition, it won't mean squat to the cleric in the next town.
Instead of trying to destroy Islam as a whole, the West needs to identify which factions are the radical ones, then go after them. It won't be easy, as they can easily get up and move.

 

[-Cp]

A great many Muslim group DID express condemnation of the Sept. 11 attacks, the attacks in Spain, the attacks in Bali and the attacks in London.

How many is "a great many"?

 

[Gunny]

Speaking of living here for a while, did you notice he was talking about a reprisal in the event of a NUCLEAR attack? Me, if we got nuked by terrorists I would turn the entire ME outside of Israel into a sheet of glass.



Now you see that makes sense. And the only logical argument I can muster is that this is an ISLAMIC issue as much as anything. So if the ISLAMIC peoples cannot unite to solve the problem, they will continue to get lumped in with the bad apples. Before you tell me that my answer is morally wrong, oh well. It is factually correct. And the first part of solving the problem is loading the gun right?

I couldn't have said that better myself. I don't care how many factions or triibes or sects or whatever there are of them. The fact is, these good muslims we keep hearing about AIN'T DOING SHIT to police their own ranks.

While I am not for waging war against those not raising a hand against us, they are the ones who are going to get hurt by THEIR inaction when doubt comes into play. Because when doubt comes into play, so does the SAW.

 

[archangel]

If you look it who is issuing the fatwas or jihads, it is ALWAYS individual clerics. Who only speak for themselves and not for everyone.
What everyone STILL refuses to consider is how fractured the Islamic community. If Bush or Blair speak, you know they represent the U.S. and England, as their elected leaders. No one elects a Muslim cleric. They merely seize control.
They do not have "lands." They have territories. The cleric of a town in Northern Iraq does care squat about the cleric of a town in Southern Iraq. They don't get together for coffee. They don't run around visiting each other like the leaders of the Western World do.

It's a like a brush fire. You might be fighting hundreds of different lines of fire. If Bush or Blair communicated with one cleric and got him to restrain all his militant opposition, it won't mean squat to the cleric in the next town.
Instead of trying to destroy Islam as a whole, the West needs to identify which factions are the radical ones, then go after them. It won't be easy, as they can easily get up and move.

Here I will put it in terms even you should be able to understand...there are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world...65 million of them are radicals..if ya put it into medical terms...say 5 million are a wound..you can put neosporin on the wound...and kill the infection...however if 60 million remaining germs migrate to the blood stream..well the doctor has no choice but to go the IV mass anti-body treatment...it is more expensive and you risk normal cell damage...but once the infection enters the blood stream the doc has no choice...........

 

[007]

Lets put it this way... "if the United States was attacked by terrorists setting off one or several in different locations, nuclear devices, and killed Americans totalling in the millions, WE WOULD HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO RETALIATE WITH A NUCLEAR RESPONSE".

If we didn't, the world would see us as WEAK, and think that we have CAVED IN to the terrorists will, that we are finally no longer the super power of the world, that we have been BEATEN.

Well I don't know where you come from little gabby girl, but if ATOMIC BOMBS go off INSIDE America, and MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE KILLED, it's like this junior, THE MOTHER FUCKING FIGHT IS ON, YOU'VE FUCKED WITH US AND FUCKED WITH US, AND NOW YOU'VE PUSHED US TOO FAR! What the President said before, "you're either with us, or you're against us", will be the cry of the land, and the fucking WORLD better wake up and smell the coffee, because WITHOUT America, THIS WORLD ISN'T SHIT, and if you don't fight WITH US, THERE AIN'T GOING TO BE SHIT LEFT!

I'm sick and tired of the whole sons a bitchin muslin everything. I think they're all a bunch of fucking rag headed extremist jerk offs. Their brethren can SAW THE FUCKING HEAD OFF of a perfectly INNOCENT person and they're OK with that, but let ONE AMERICAN make a threating SOUND, and they all got their damn undies in a bundle. Well FUCK THAT, and FUCKING KILL THEM ALL IF THEY SCREW WITH AMERICA!

I'm SICK TO DEATH of these asshole rag heads and the middle east. I'm also sick of the incredibly empty headed moron imbicilic liberal apologetic idiots who take every possible opportunity to DEFEND these shit bags, (gabby), and then turn around and kick the shit out of America at every opportunity with pleasure, (gabby). Well here's a suggestion gabby, get the fuck out of America and go over there. March your little liberal ass right up to them and tell the rag heads how you've been sticking up for them back in America, and lets see where that gets you. You know what? They'll SAW YOUR FUCKING HEAD OFF TOO! No lose there though, it was empty anyway.

 

[Gunny]

Lets put it this way... "if the United States was attacked by terrorists setting off one or several in different locations, nuclear devices, and killed Americans totalling in the millions, WE WOULD HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO RETALIATE WITH A NUCLEAR RESPONSE".

If we didn't, the world would see us as WEAK, and think that we have CAVED IN to the terrorists will, that we are finally no longer the super power of the world, that we have been BEATEN.

Well I don't know where you come from little gabby girl, but if ATOMIC BOMBS go off INSIDE America, and MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE KILLED, it's like this junior, THE MOTHER FUCKING FIGHT IS ON, YOU'VE FUCKED WITH US AND FUCKED WITH US, AND NOW YOU'VE PUSHED US TOO FAR! What the President said before, "you're either with us, or you're against us", will be the cry of the land, and the fucking WORLD better wake up and smell the coffee, because WITHOUT America, THIS WORLD ISN'T SHIT, and if you don't fight WITH US, THERE AIN'T GOING TO BE SHIT LEFT!

I'm sick and tired of the whole sons a bitchin muslin everything. I think they're all a bunch of fucking rag headed extremist jerk offs. Their brethren can SAW THE FUCKING HEAD OFF of a perfectly INNOCENT person and they're OK with that, but let ONE AMERICAN make a threating SOUND, and they all got their damn undies in a bundle. Well FUCK THAT, and FUCKING KILL THEM ALL IF THEY SCREW WITH AMERICA!

I'm SICK TO DEATH of these asshole rag heads and the middle east. I'm also sick of the incredibly empty headed moron imbicilic liberal apologetic idiots who take every possible opportunity to DEFEND these shit bags, (gabby), and then turn around and kick the shit out of America at every opportunity with pleasure, (gabby). Well here's a suggestion gabby, get the fuck out of America and go over there. March your little liberal ass right up to them and tell how you've been sticking up for them back in America, and lets see where that gets you. You know what? They'll SAW YOUR FUCKING HEAD OFF TOO! No lose there though, it was empty anyway.

Who do you think will be screeching the loudest "You didn't protect us" if and/or when it happens? After changing their pants from shitting all over themselves, the lefties will be cowering in their corners, blaming it on Bush and demanding his head for not protecting their sorry little asses.

 

[Abbey Normal]

If you look it who is issuing the fatwas or jihads, it is ALWAYS individual clerics. Who only speak for themselves and not for everyone.
What everyone STILL refuses to consider is how fractured the Islamic community. If Bush or Blair speak, you know they represent the U.S. and England, as their elected leaders. No one elects a Muslim cleric. They merely seize control.
...

Are you sure about that? Here is a post on topic from No1toVote4 in the "Yes and No" thread in this forum:

"...The silence is deafening, Theregular. I cannot get much more deafening before we begin to realize that the religion was not hijacked, it was given away with enthusiasm to religious leaders that are voted for at the mosques.
Here is a nice link for you:
http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.or...20Democracy.htm
Pay particular attention to the part in Democratic Systems in Islam where they vote for their religious leaders and therefore by having such leaders as those who will advocate such action in their name they have chosen to be part of the atrocity.
They, the Muslims, agree to let these people continue in the leadership of their religion because they too must advocate such action. This peaceful religion seems to become less peaceful by the moment when people begin to realize that they have elected these terrorists to lead them and to speak for them, and the problem becomes much larger and more difficult to encompass."

 

[Gabriella84]

there are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world...65 million of them are radicals

Pale Rambo, take a sedative and come back when you are not a character out of Dr. Strangelove.

 

[theim]

As a bitter old man with no real life options left in front of you, I can see why you wouldn't care if the U.S. pisses off the entire world. You can withdraw to your bunker and draw protection from your family militia.
The rest of us would enjoy living here a while.

Maybe you can withdraw to your Commune in the Sierra Nevada with the rest of your granola-munching brethren. Then you can get away from all those capitalist pigs.

Nobody will miss you.

 

[Gabriella84]

Maybe you can withdraw to your Commune in the Sierra Nevada with the rest of your granola-munching brethren. Then you can get away from all those capitalist pigs.

WTF? That certainly came out of left field. Are you on drugs? :alco:

 

[CSM]

What I think has been missed in this discussion is the fact that the world is outraged about a comment regarding the nuking of Mecca but is very apathetic about the event that would trigger such an action, namely, the nuking of a city in the US. Where is the outrage over that? You dont hear it because it isn't there.

Why haven't Turkey,Russia and Howard Dean (those named in the first sentence of the article) jumped up and expressed their outrage and indignation that some pundit would even suggest the terrorists would detonate a nuclear bomb in ANY country, much less the US? You know why...they know damned well the terrorists would do such a thing.

There is something very sick and twisted about a planet whose population gets upset about a callous remark by a single individual, but passively condones the wrongful actions of the fanatics that would destroy their very existence if they could.

 

[Annie]

What I think has been missed in this discussion is the fact that the world is outraged about a comment regarding the nuking of Mecca but is very apathetic about the event that would trigger such an action, namely, the nuking of a city in the US. Where is the outrage over that? You dont hear it because it isn't there.

Why haven't Turkey,Russia and Howard Dean (those named in the first sentence of the article) jumped up and expressed their outrage and indignation that some pundit would even suggest the terrorists would detonate a nuclear bomb in ANY country, much less the US? You know why...they know damned well the terrorists would do such a thing.

There is something very sick and twisted about a planet whose population gets upset about a callous remark by a single individual, but passively condones the wrongful actions of the fanatics that would destroy their very existence if they could.

Interesting, I've just finished reading a related essay on this very topic by a 'liberal' newspaper editor on how his thinking has changed since 9/11. Interesting because he allowed himself to think about what was being said; by his colleagues, friends, and even himself. Interesting because he addresses the 'root causes' and 'moral equivalency' arguements. If anyone has 10 minutes to look over, it's worth your time:

http://donklephant.com/2005/07/20/my-left-behind/

 

[CSM]

Great article...well worth reading indeed!