Women and minorities represent less than 10% of pilots, yet were factors in four out of eight crashes (50%).

[Correll]

Can you identify the flaw in your argument? What about his argument?

How about just the 4 out 8 means 50% of airline crashes are due to DEI hires. That's what your title says - that minorities & women make up only 10% of the commercial airline pilot workforce yet are responsible for 50% of the crashes?

And what about prior to 1963 when the pilots were 100% male & white (or in the very least 0% Black & 0% female)? Who and what caused THOSE crashes?

NOT dei.

So... oooh, I get it.

You are interpreting an attack on DEI as an attack on non-whites....

That's a you thing. Over here, in this thread, on this site, the issue is DEI and how it lowers standards, leading to deaths.

Your ...inside your brain, where it is just an attack on non-whites, that's just between you and you. Try not to derail this thread with... crazy talk.


Please and thank you.

 

[Correll]

Yeah I wouldn't be going around calling anyone an idiot when you're the one answering a rhetorical question, trying to make a point.

If the answer to a rhetorical question sheds important light on a problem, that makes it relevant.

That you though the question was ... not relevant, that just shows the disconnect between what is going on in your brain, and reality.

 

[Correll]

That was already answered (several times). When stuff was 100% white, of course, naturally, 100% of all crashes were due to white pilots.

But airlines have made QUANTUM LEAPS in safety since the 1970s-1980s as problem after poblem was identified and designed out, fly-by-wire came in, and computer control took over.

What the OP is talking about is TODAY:

Women and minorities now make up 10% of the total pilot reservoir yet HALF of all recent crashes have been under their watch.

Now, not all crashes are due to pilot error---- some crashes, stuff just goes wrong; it would not much matter WHO was the pilot if a wing or engine falls off...

And planes are designed now to try to PREVENT pilots from doing stupid stuff (like trying to take off without the flaps extended). Still, the fact that HALF of all crashes is with female and minority pilots looks pretty statistically significant to me and not just a matter of sexism nor racism.

The other poster doesn't understand that the issue is dei.

In his mind, this is just an attack on non-whites. He is making counter points to show that non-whites are not hte only people to have accidents.

His obsession with RACE is making it, so that he isn't really hearing us at all. He CAN'T hear us over the voices in his head.

 

[Hafar1014]

Do you actually believe this article? And the guy who wrote it is a law school graduate but not a practicing attorney and I can readily see why, if this article is an example of his critical thinking skills.

4 accidents out of 8 accidents huh? Over what period of time? Why not 4 accidents out of all of them, do you know how to even determine that?

I don't know what is more comical, his article or you all are gobbling it up the way you are.

U.S. Commercial Airline Crashes With Fatalities (Pre-1963)​

1930s​

1. 1931 – TWA Flight 599 – Kansas – 8 dead
2. 1933 – United Air Lines Trip 23 – Indiana – 7 dead
3. 1935 – TWA Flight 6 – Missouri – 5 dead
4. 1937 – United Airlines Trip 23 – Utah – 19 dead
5. 1938 – United Airlines Flight 1 – California – 10 dead

1940–1945​

1. 1940 – Pennsylvania Central Airlines Trip 19 – Virginia – 25 dead
2. 1941 – Eastern Air Lines Flight 21 – Georgia – 8 dead
3. 1942 – American Airlines Flight 28 – California – 22 dead
4. 1943 – American Airlines Flight 63 – Tennessee – 20 dead
5. 1944 – TWA Flight 3 – Nevada – 24 dead

1946–1949​

1. 1946 – United Airlines Flight 521 – New York – 17 dead
2. 1946 – American Airlines Flight 96 – Tennessee – 39 dead
3. 1947 – United Airlines Flight 608 – Utah – 52 dead
4. 1947 – United Airlines Flight 623 – Maryland – 17 dead
5. 1948 – United Airlines Flight 624 – Pennsylvania – 47 dead (incl. ground fatalities)
6. 1949 – Eastern Air Lines Flight 537 – Washington, DC – 59 dead

1950–1955​

1. 1950 – Northwest Orient Flight 2501 – Lake Michigan – 58 dead
2. 1951 – United Airlines Flight 610 – Wyoming – 66 dead
3. 1953 – American Airlines Flight 723 – Ohio – 22 dead
4. 1955 – United Airlines Flight 629 – Colorado – 44 dead (bombing)

1956–1962​

1. 1956 – Grand Canyon Mid-Air Collision (UA 718 / TWA 2) – Arizona – 128 dead
2. 1959 – Braniff Flight 542 – Texas – 34 dead
3. 1960 – United 826 / TWA 266 Mid-Air Collision – New York – 134 dead (incl. ground fatalities)
4. 1961 – United Airlines Flight 859 – Colorado – 17 dead
5. 1962 – American Airlines Flight 1 – New York – 95 dead

So if DEI is allegedly responsible for four airline accidents in recent years (with 2009 as an outlier), what was causing the dozens of fatal U.S. airline crashes before 1963, when airlines had not yet hired a single Black or female pilot?

All 25 of these crashes happened when:

• Cockpits were 100% white
• 100% male
• Long before “DEI,” affirmative action, or diversity hiring existed in aviation

The original post never controlled for mechanical failure. So what he ha sis an invalid correlation.

 

[Correll]

The original post never controlled for mechanical failure. So what he ha sis an invalid correlation.

It's only 8 accidents. We could look to see if they were from mechanical failure.

 

[Hafar1014]

It's only 8 accidents. We could look to see if they were from mechanical failure.

If thats the case he cant blame the pilots. We do know Boeing had problems

 

[Correll]

If thats the case he cant blame the pilots. We do know Boeing had problems

The obvious assumption is that mechanical problems should hit randomly, not doing anything with the pilots.

Though with such a small sample size, yes, random chance COULD sway the results.


Personally, I made up my mind about dei years ago, so I am feeling no motive to check.

Anyone else feel like spending the MINUTES, it would take to check out the 8 accidents?

 

[DonGlock26]

Can you identify the flaw in your argument? What about his argument?

How about just the 4 out 8 means 50% of airline crashes are due to DEI hires. That's what your title says - that minorities & women make up only 10% of the commercial airline pilot workforce yet are responsible for 50% of the crashes?

And what about prior to 1963 when the pilots were 100% male & white (or in the very least 0% Black & 0% female)? Who and what caused THOSE crashes?

Are you saying that the below statement is untrue?

I analyzed every US commercial flight crash with onboard fatalities attributed to pilot error since 2000: Women and minorities represent less than 10% of pilots, yet were factors in four out of eight crashes (50%).

Despite Trump’s efforts, airline DEI programs are still risking people’s lives

Three million Americans will board a plane today assuming the pilot earned that seat through merit. They shouldn’t. For decades, airlines have subordinated safety to diversity quotas. The Federal A…

nypost.com

 

[DonGlock26]

It's only 8 accidents. We could look to see if they were from mechanical failure.

Apparently, he is using crashes found to have been caused by pilot error.

I analyzed every US commercial flight crash with onboard fatalities attributed to pilot error since 2000: Women and minorities represent less than 10% of pilots, yet were factors in four out of eight crashes (50%).

Despite Trump’s efforts, airline DEI programs are still risking people’s lives

Three million Americans will board a plane today assuming the pilot earned that seat through merit. They shouldn’t. For decades, airlines have subordinated safety to diversity quotas. The Federal A…

nypost.com

 

[Correll]

Apparently, he using crashes found to have been caused by pilot error.

Oh, thanks. I missed that. Cool.

So, yeah, this does not look good for DEI.

 

[DonGlock26]

The original post never controlled for mechanical failure. So what he ha sis an invalid correlation.

His study was of crashes attributed to human error. He should do a follow up article detailing the crashes.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Can you disprove his stats?

If you can produce a clean, verifiable dataset that includes the race and gender of the pilot-in-command for every commercial airline accident since 1963, then we could at least assess whether it is even theoretically possible for race or gender to be evaluated as factors — notwithstanding the fact that the NTSB does not consider these attributes because they are non-causal which is precisely why no such dataset exists to my knowledge.

What we do know with certainty is that the pilots-in-command in commercial airline accidents prior to 1963 were exclusively white and male, because that is what law and airline policy required at the time. This was prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, when the United States was still legally segregated and women and Black pilots were structurally excluded from commercial airline cockpits.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

His study was of crashes attributed to human error. He should do a follow up article detailing the crashes.

It can't just be human error, it has to be pilot error. There are a lot of "humans" involved in the process of getting a flight from point A to point B and because they are human are susceptible to making a mistake.

 

[SeaMajor7]

The demented LEFT are stuck on FEELINGS.
One of the worst of those is envy.
How DARE white people succeed in life by EARNING their way through it. No no no, they MUST be knocked down a peg or two hundred.
So standards are lowered and less QUALIFIED box checkers are included because reasons, and destruction ensues.
Talent, merit, and intelligence be damned, they've got. FEELINGS to address, and boxes to check.
Not only that, but this whole notion has led to outright and open REPULTION of white people in general.
Look what the demented LEFT have done with the Super Bowl: A direct and HUGE middle finger to American culture right in our FACES. It's ******* ridiculous.
Anyway, DEI is all about destroying society.
Destroy
Everything
Intentionally

 

[Hafar1014]

The demented LEFT are stuck on FEELINGS.
One of the worst of those is envy.
How DARE white people succeed in life by EARNING their way through it. No no no, they MUST be knocked down a peg or two hundred.
So standards are lowered and less QUALIFIED box checkers are included because reasons, and destruction ensues.
Talent, merit, and intelligence be damned, they've got. FEELINGS to address, and boxes to check.
Not only that, but this whole notion has led to outright and open REPULTION of white people in general.
Look what the demented LEFT have done with the Super Bowl: A direct and HUGE middle finger to American culture right in our FACES. It's ******* ridiculous.
Anyway, DEI is all about destroying society.
Destroy
Everything
Intentionally

DEI Is about covering up the total failure of democrat socuial policies

 

[SeaMajor7]

DEI Is about covering up the total failure of democrat socuial policies

It's redundant lunacy right there.

 

[Care4all]

Since 2000, he clearly stated that.

The point was that DEI lowers standards. Thus looking at accidents from BEFORE dei would not be relevant.

Yes, I suspect that he does understand teh concept of linear time and can select out CURRENT TIME PERIOD from ANCIENT HISTORY.







Like I said, yeah, the point is about DEI. DEI wasn't a thing in the 1930s. It is retarded to bring up accidents from then.

If the point was something like, "ONLY NON-WHITES HAVE ACCIDENTS", then your counter point would have been brilliant and hit like a freight train.

In the real world, it's shit talk.

Which is pretty much all libs have, when it comes time for them to defend DEI.


Because DEI does lower standards. We all know it.

ANd it is racist discrimination and oppression of whites.

Which is WHY you like it.

The title of the thread was CLEARLY shit talk, not News vine Mary's imo. You don't see that in the title?

 

[Correll]

The title of the thread was CLEARLY shit talk, not News vine Mary's imo. You don't see that in the title?

I see that you asserted a claim. I see nothing to back up the claim.

The OP cited evidence. You have not addressed the evidence.

So.... thanks for.... being present, I guess.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Having been a Navy Flier (back end), thinking about the OP what I'd like to see is some more data.

Let go back 50 years (1975) or even 40 years (1985) when supposedly planes got much more advanced and idiot proof.

Now provide data on ALL commerical airline mishaps (not just picking 8) as a function of two criteria:

• Experience in years of the cockpit crew, and
• Flight House of the cockpit crew,
• BONUS DATA POINT: Hours in model for the cockpit crew.

Then let's see the results.

Wanna bet that younger crews in terms of experience and flight hours (with bonus data of model) have higher accident rates then more experienced cockpit crews.

So now when you think through it, since pilots were historicially dominated by white males (as a percentage of active pilots) changes in women and minorities would (as a percentage of the target population) would tend towards younger and less experienced.

Is there a statistically significant change based on women and minorities compared to white males with similar experience (age, flight hours, and model hours)?

Remember this isn't about anecdotal one offs, this is a statistical evaluation of a specific target population (cockpit crews in commercial airlines).

WW

 

[PeterPilot]

DonGlock26

I have a few younger friends currently still flying for the various airlines. For several years they talk about the subject of your post. I agree.

However another big factor in airline incidents and accidents in these last 5 years is that the FAA and the airlines happily violated long established medical standards and pushed the experimental mRNA clot shots. Robert Snow of American Airlines became quite vocal about it several years ago. Others too.