Women and combat....not a good idea...

[2aguy]

I'm kind of split on this one. Kurdish women have been kicking Islamic state ass so it's possible. But could the average American woman do it? Not so sure...

They have no choice....and how effective are they or would they be against a modern trained military force?

Like whom? Like the Ruskies who have used women in actual combat during war and they still managed to win... Israelis also...

Again, only because there was no choice. And they worked as snipers, a different category of fighter. Israel stopped using women in combat roles.

 

[2aguy]

The Kurdish women fighters are an extremely effective fighting force and have proven themselves so. The Kurdish men respect them as such. You are just another sexist. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fuck you. Women are different from men physically. You should have taken some biology courses.

 

[Moonglow]

I'm kind of split on this one. Kurdish women have been kicking Islamic state ass so it's possible. But could the average American woman do it? Not so sure...

They have no choice....and how effective are they or would they be against a modern trained military force?

Like whom? Like the Ruskies who have used women in actual combat during war and they still managed to win... Israelis also...

Again, only because there was no choice. And they worked as snipers, a different category of fighter. Israel stopped using women in combat roles.

Women take on combat roles at the fortified farms in Israel...

 

[Moonglow]

The Kurdish women fighters are an extremely effective fighting force and have proven themselves so. The Kurdish men respect them as such. You are just another sexist. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fuck you. Women are different from men physically. You should have taken some biology courses.

They are different, yet still can kill....evidently you have a prejudice, how many years did you serve, or do you have a prejudice against being a soldier?

 

[2aguy]

I'm kind of split on this one. Kurdish women have been kicking Islamic state ass so it's possible. But could the average American woman do it? Not so sure...

They have no choice....and how effective are they or would they be against a modern trained military force?

I think either gender can be trained to kill, but can any culture?


As you can tell it can be done. But would American culture ALLOW it to be done?

Big difference between a combat soldier and a sniper.
Anyone can be taught to shoot straight.

True enough but the will to kill is yet another. We are not talking some clinic we ARE talking facing death. Theirs or yours and as a whole American women have never faced that.

True,but I've never felt squeamish about killing. Whether it be a deer or my enemy.
I know my wife could drop an enemy of our country without blinking,of course she's a country girl who knows how to shoot and hunt.
I'll never forget the day she proved to me she can actually shoot a beer can in mid air from the hip.....
Color me shocked and impressed.

For the sake of this article, we aren't just talking killing, or pulling trigger we are talking about getting that rifle where it needs to be day after day in a combat environment. That is where the difference is. Anyone can be a good shot, it is carrying that rifle mile after mile, with heavy equipment, no food, no sleep and all the other details of combat that are the problem.

 

[2aguy]

I'm kind of split on this one. Kurdish women have been kicking Islamic state ass so it's possible. But could the average American woman do it? Not so sure...

They have no choice....and how effective are they or would they be against a modern trained military force?

Like whom? Like the Ruskies who have used women in actual combat during war and they still managed to win... Israelis also...

Again, only because there was no choice. And they worked as snipers, a different category of fighter. Israel stopped using women in combat roles.

Women take on combat roles at the fortified farms in Israel...

Again, they are in a static position....shooting isn't the problem......we are talking about actually seeking out and engaging an enemy in harsh conditions.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

This article is a good look at the problem with women in combat roles...and no, they aren't talking about women in combat, but women as fighters taking the fight to the enemy, killing and surviving to attack again....

Putting Women in Combat -- Ineffective Terrible Idea National Review Online

Another common argument is that women are already dying in combat zones, so it’s only fair to formalize what they are doing. But this debate is not about the supreme sacrifice that 144 servicewomen have made in combat zones since 9/11, but how effective women can be in doing a different job — projecting combat power, killing the enemy, and surviving to fight another day. The women who have died in service to their country need to be honored, but they should not be honored by increasing the chances that other servicemen and women will die as well.

As former Marine Jude Eden writes in the April 2015 edition of Military Review, “Being in the combat zone, dangerous as it is, is still worlds away from the door-kicking offensive missions of our combat units.” Being killed in a crash or by an IED is not the same as surviving physically demanding combat patrols carrying combat loads of 60 to 140 pounds, which challenge even men’s superior endurance and strength. A willingness to die for one’s country is a noble and a necessary condition for effective combat soldiers, but it is far from sufficient.

***********************

So why do men and women perform so differently in combat-related tasks? First, physiologically and psychologically, women and men are significantly different. Men are not simply bigger women with different plumbing. Men’s blood carries 10 to 12 percent more oxygen per liter than does a women’s; and men’s VO2 max, a measure of the top rate of oxygen consumption, is 40 to 60 percent greater than that of women. An average fit man will weigh about 23 percent more, have 50 percent more muscle mass, and carry 10 percent less body fat than an average fit woman. Pound for pound, men have thicker skulls, bigger, stronger necks, hearts that are 17 percent larger, and bones that are both bigger and denser. Despite being much heavier, men’s vertical leap is nearly 50 percent greater than that of women. In terms of reflexes and reaction times, men significantly outperform women. When confronted with immediate danger, studies suggest men are “more likely than women to take action.” Women are far more likely to experience motion sickness and vertigo. In the Navy women go on sick call 60 to 70 percent more frequently.

For the kind of violent events and situations found on the battlefield, women are far more likely to develop post-traumatic stress disorder and experience the symptoms for a longer duration than men. Despite the gender-specific ability to handle the pain of childbirth, “study after study” conclusively shows that men have a much higher overall tolerance for pain than women. Individually, any one of above differences could make the difference between life and death. In the combat environment, the differences between men and women in speed, strength, endurance, agility, physical resiliency, and psychological resiliency represents an unbridgeable gap — and the impact on the battlefield is dramatic.Read more at: Putting Women in Combat -- Ineffective Terrible Idea National Review Online

Most American women are willing to kill their own children. I say turn em loose on the bad guys.

 

[2aguy]

The Kurdish women fighters are an extremely effective fighting force and have proven themselves so. The Kurdish men respect them as such. You are just another sexist. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fuck you. Women are different from men physically. You should have taken some biology courses.

They are different, yet still can kill....evidently you have a prejudice, how many years did you serve, or do you have a prejudice against being a soldier?

I was in the infantry in the National Guard, did my basic and AIT at Fort Benning. I saw guys who couldn't even make the basic infantry training. Did you guys read the article....have you thought about this at all.....?

 

[Moonglow]

The Kurdish women fighters are an extremely effective fighting force and have proven themselves so. The Kurdish men respect them as such. You are just another sexist. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fuck you. Women are different from men physically. You should have taken some biology courses.

They are different, yet still can kill....evidently you have a prejudice, how many years did you serve, or do you have a prejudice against being a soldier?

I was in the infantry in the National Guard, did my basic and AIT at Fort Benning. I saw guys who couldn't even make the basic infantry training. Did you guys read the article....have you thought about this at all.....?

I was doing basic at Fart Jackson SC when they started letting females into the regular Army, my wife was one week behind me at basic, enjoyed seeing her on Sunday at the chapel...But we were not combat infantry, she was a 96G and I was a 27E..
No she could not make it as a bush beater but I know of other women that could..

 

[Slyhunter]

This article is a good look at the problem with women in combat roles...and no, they aren't talking about women in combat, but women as fighters taking the fight to the enemy, killing and surviving to attack again....

Putting Women in Combat -- Ineffective Terrible Idea National Review Online

Another common argument is that women are already dying in combat zones, so it’s only fair to formalize what they are doing. But this debate is not about the supreme sacrifice that 144 servicewomen have made in combat zones since 9/11, but how effective women can be in doing a different job — projecting combat power, killing the enemy, and surviving to fight another day. The women who have died in service to their country need to be honored, but they should not be honored by increasing the chances that other servicemen and women will die as well.

As former Marine Jude Eden writes in the April 2015 edition of Military Review, “Being in the combat zone, dangerous as it is, is still worlds away from the door-kicking offensive missions of our combat units.” Being killed in a crash or by an IED is not the same as surviving physically demanding combat patrols carrying combat loads of 60 to 140 pounds, which challenge even men’s superior endurance and strength. A willingness to die for one’s country is a noble and a necessary condition for effective combat soldiers, but it is far from sufficient.

***********************

So why do men and women perform so differently in combat-related tasks? First, physiologically and psychologically, women and men are significantly different. Men are not simply bigger women with different plumbing. Men’s blood carries 10 to 12 percent more oxygen per liter than does a women’s; and men’s VO2 max, a measure of the top rate of oxygen consumption, is 40 to 60 percent greater than that of women. An average fit man will weigh about 23 percent more, have 50 percent more muscle mass, and carry 10 percent less body fat than an average fit woman. Pound for pound, men have thicker skulls, bigger, stronger necks, hearts that are 17 percent larger, and bones that are both bigger and denser. Despite being much heavier, men’s vertical leap is nearly 50 percent greater than that of women. In terms of reflexes and reaction times, men significantly outperform women. When confronted with immediate danger, studies suggest men are “more likely than women to take action.” Women are far more likely to experience motion sickness and vertigo. In the Navy women go on sick call 60 to 70 percent more frequently.

For the kind of violent events and situations found on the battlefield, women are far more likely to develop post-traumatic stress disorder and experience the symptoms for a longer duration than men. Despite the gender-specific ability to handle the pain of childbirth, “study after study” conclusively shows that men have a much higher overall tolerance for pain than women. Individually, any one of above differences could make the difference between life and death. In the combat environment, the differences between men and women in speed, strength, endurance, agility, physical resiliency, and psychological resiliency represents an unbridgeable gap — and the impact on the battlefield is dramatic.Read more at: Putting Women in Combat -- Ineffective Terrible Idea National Review Online

Most American women are willing to kill their own children. I say turn em loose on the bad guys.

Most?

 

[shadow355]

This article is a good look at the problem with women in combat roles...and no, they aren't talking about women in combat, but women as fighters taking the fight to the enemy, killing and surviving to attack again....

Putting Women in Combat -- Ineffective Terrible Idea National Review Online

Another common argument is that women are already dying in combat zones, so it’s only fair to formalize what they are doing. But this debate is not about the supreme sacrifice that 144 servicewomen have made in combat zones since 9/11, but how effective women can be in doing a different job — projecting combat power, killing the enemy, and surviving to fight another day. The women who have died in service to their country need to be honored, but they should not be honored by increasing the chances that other servicemen and women will die as well.

As former Marine Jude Eden writes in the April 2015 edition of Military Review, “Being in the combat zone, dangerous as it is, is still worlds away from the door-kicking offensive missions of our combat units.” Being killed in a crash or by an IED is not the same as surviving physically demanding combat patrols carrying combat loads of 60 to 140 pounds, which challenge even men’s superior endurance and strength. A willingness to die for one’s country is a noble and a necessary condition for effective combat soldiers, but it is far from sufficient.

***********************

So why do men and women perform so differently in combat-related tasks? First, physiologically and psychologically, women and men are significantly different. Men are not simply bigger women with different plumbing. Men’s blood carries 10 to 12 percent more oxygen per liter than does a women’s; and men’s VO2 max, a measure of the top rate of oxygen consumption, is 40 to 60 percent greater than that of women. An average fit man will weigh about 23 percent more, have 50 percent more muscle mass, and carry 10 percent less body fat than an average fit woman. Pound for pound, men have thicker skulls, bigger, stronger necks, hearts that are 17 percent larger, and bones that are both bigger and denser. Despite being much heavier, men’s vertical leap is nearly 50 percent greater than that of women. In terms of reflexes and reaction times, men significantly outperform women. When confronted with immediate danger, studies suggest men are “more likely than women to take action.” Women are far more likely to experience motion sickness and vertigo. In the Navy women go on sick call 60 to 70 percent more frequently.

For the kind of violent events and situations found on the battlefield, women are far more likely to develop post-traumatic stress disorder and experience the symptoms for a longer duration than men. Despite the gender-specific ability to handle the pain of childbirth, “study after study” conclusively shows that men have a much higher overall tolerance for pain than women. Individually, any one of above differences could make the difference between life and death. In the combat environment, the differences between men and women in speed, strength, endurance, agility, physical resiliency, and psychological resiliency represents an unbridgeable gap — and the impact on the battlefield is dramatic.Read more at: Putting Women in Combat -- Ineffective Terrible Idea National Review Online

Bull Schit.

Women are in the Military Police roles, which involve escorting vehicles ( Convoy Escort ) in combat zones. They are allowed in Explosive Ordinance Disposal...which is a role in Combat Zones. WOMEN ALREADY PERFORM tasks and jobs in combat zones. I addressed this issue ( women in combat ) in the first book I have written ( a military spy book ) ; and in the first portion of the second book I have started ( written ) on.

When I worked overseas....I worked with some women whom were genius material, and one particular female Lieutenant I knew could shoot the pants off most men. She hit the gym every once and awhile, and boxed. I got to spar with her on one instance....it was educational.

Certain women can do certain jobs - non combat and combat. Some men can do combat jobs and some cannot. What about the green 18 year old male, whom is only 5'7" tall and weighs 120 pounds?

YOU NEED TO LOOK on the other side of the fence. ONE NEEDS to compare one and two. ONE NEEDS to keep and open mind about this topic and not be narrow minded.

Research all the articles and video on YOUTUBE where a female Police Officer kicked some guys butt, OR SHOT him full of holes. I say a video about a year or so ago of a female officer shooting her Glock 22 into a car that was trying to run he down. The driver - the only occupant, did not survive. Kudos to her.

I have worked alongside some really smart and capable women in the military, mostly overseas. Women who worked long hours, worked well with counterparts,, and dine what needed to be done = TO ACCOMPLISH THE MISSION !. Missed sleep, missed meals, missed off time. They pulled their weight and then some. Being able to be depended on and to be reliable.....accounts for something in the Military.....and life !

The article and topic in question......IS FLAWED in some peoples eyes.


Shadow 355

 

[waltky]

Womens gets to get in combat...

Pentagon chief to military: Open all combat jobs to women
December 3, 2015 WASHINGTON (AP) — After three years of study and debate, Defense Secretary Ash Carter ordered the military Thursday to open all military jobs to women, removing the final barriers that kept women from serving in combat, including the most dangerous and grueling commando posts.

His landmark decision rebuffed requests by the Marine Corps to exclude women from certain infantry and combat jobs and signaled a formal recognition that thousands of women served, and many were wounded or killed, in the last 14 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. "We are a joint force, and I have decided to make a decision which applies to the entire force," Carter told a news conference. But he acknowledged some concerns. "Implementation won't happen overnight. And while at the end of the day this will make us a better and stronger force, there still will be problems to fix and challenges to overcome. We shouldn't diminish that."

Carter said the military can no longer afford to exclude half the population from high-risk military posts. He said that any man or woman who meets the standards should be able to serve, and he gave the armed services 30 days to submit plans to make the historic change. Carter's order opens the final 10 percent of military positions to women — a total of about 220,000 jobs. And it allows them to serve in the most demanding and difficult jobs, including as special operations forces, such as the Army Delta units and Navy SEALs.

U.S. Rep. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., one of the first Army women to fly combat missions in the 2003-2011 Iraq war, welcomed the decision. "I didn't lose my legs in a bar fight — of course women can serve in combat," said Duckworth, whose helicopter was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. "This decision is long overdue." Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona and head of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said Congress will review the data and the decision. Over the past few years, women have steadily moved into many jobs previously open only to men, including on Navy submarines, in Army artillery units, and as Night Stalkers, the elite special operations helicopter crews, best known for flying the Navy SEALS into Osama bin Laden's compound in 2011.

MORE

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Womens gets to get in combat...

Pentagon chief to military: Open all combat jobs to women
December 3, 2015 WASHINGTON (AP) — After three years of study and debate, Defense Secretary Ash Carter ordered the military Thursday to open all military jobs to women, removing the final barriers that kept women from serving in combat, including the most dangerous and grueling commando posts.

His landmark decision rebuffed requests by the Marine Corps to exclude women from certain infantry and combat jobs and signaled a formal recognition that thousands of women served, and many were wounded or killed, in the last 14 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. "We are a joint force, and I have decided to make a decision which applies to the entire force," Carter told a news conference. But he acknowledged some concerns. "Implementation won't happen overnight. And while at the end of the day this will make us a better and stronger force, there still will be problems to fix and challenges to overcome. We shouldn't diminish that."

Carter said the military can no longer afford to exclude half the population from high-risk military posts. He said that any man or woman who meets the standards should be able to serve, and he gave the armed services 30 days to submit plans to make the historic change. Carter's order opens the final 10 percent of military positions to women — a total of about 220,000 jobs. And it allows them to serve in the most demanding and difficult jobs, including as special operations forces, such as the Army Delta units and Navy SEALs.

U.S. Rep. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., one of the first Army women to fly combat missions in the 2003-2011 Iraq war, welcomed the decision. "I didn't lose my legs in a bar fight — of course women can serve in combat," said Duckworth, whose helicopter was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. "This decision is long overdue." Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona and head of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said Congress will review the data and the decision. Over the past few years, women have steadily moved into many jobs previously open only to men, including on Navy submarines, in Army artillery units, and as Night Stalkers, the elite special operations helicopter crews, best known for flying the Navy SEALS into Osama bin Laden's compound in 2011.

MORE

If I was still a youngster you couldnt get me to join the military in a combat role for any reason in light of this development.

 

[Moonglow]

Womens gets to get in combat...

Pentagon chief to military: Open all combat jobs to women
December 3, 2015 WASHINGTON (AP) — After three years of study and debate, Defense Secretary Ash Carter ordered the military Thursday to open all military jobs to women, removing the final barriers that kept women from serving in combat, including the most dangerous and grueling commando posts.

His landmark decision rebuffed requests by the Marine Corps to exclude women from certain infantry and combat jobs and signaled a formal recognition that thousands of women served, and many were wounded or killed, in the last 14 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. "We are a joint force, and I have decided to make a decision which applies to the entire force," Carter told a news conference. But he acknowledged some concerns. "Implementation won't happen overnight. And while at the end of the day this will make us a better and stronger force, there still will be problems to fix and challenges to overcome. We shouldn't diminish that."

Carter said the military can no longer afford to exclude half the population from high-risk military posts. He said that any man or woman who meets the standards should be able to serve, and he gave the armed services 30 days to submit plans to make the historic change. Carter's order opens the final 10 percent of military positions to women — a total of about 220,000 jobs. And it allows them to serve in the most demanding and difficult jobs, including as special operations forces, such as the Army Delta units and Navy SEALs.

U.S. Rep. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., one of the first Army women to fly combat missions in the 2003-2011 Iraq war, welcomed the decision. "I didn't lose my legs in a bar fight — of course women can serve in combat," said Duckworth, whose helicopter was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. "This decision is long overdue." Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona and head of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said Congress will review the data and the decision. Over the past few years, women have steadily moved into many jobs previously open only to men, including on Navy submarines, in Army artillery units, and as Night Stalkers, the elite special operations helicopter crews, best known for flying the Navy SEALS into Osama bin Laden's compound in 2011.

MORE

If I was still a youngster you couldnt get me to join the military in a combat role for any reason in light of this development.

Hmmm, so you'd rather hang with dudes, gotcha...

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Womens gets to get in combat...

Pentagon chief to military: Open all combat jobs to women
December 3, 2015 WASHINGTON (AP) — After three years of study and debate, Defense Secretary Ash Carter ordered the military Thursday to open all military jobs to women, removing the final barriers that kept women from serving in combat, including the most dangerous and grueling commando posts.

His landmark decision rebuffed requests by the Marine Corps to exclude women from certain infantry and combat jobs and signaled a formal recognition that thousands of women served, and many were wounded or killed, in the last 14 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. "We are a joint force, and I have decided to make a decision which applies to the entire force," Carter told a news conference. But he acknowledged some concerns. "Implementation won't happen overnight. And while at the end of the day this will make us a better and stronger force, there still will be problems to fix and challenges to overcome. We shouldn't diminish that."

Carter said the military can no longer afford to exclude half the population from high-risk military posts. He said that any man or woman who meets the standards should be able to serve, and he gave the armed services 30 days to submit plans to make the historic change. Carter's order opens the final 10 percent of military positions to women — a total of about 220,000 jobs. And it allows them to serve in the most demanding and difficult jobs, including as special operations forces, such as the Army Delta units and Navy SEALs.

U.S. Rep. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., one of the first Army women to fly combat missions in the 2003-2011 Iraq war, welcomed the decision. "I didn't lose my legs in a bar fight — of course women can serve in combat," said Duckworth, whose helicopter was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. "This decision is long overdue." Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona and head of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said Congress will review the data and the decision. Over the past few years, women have steadily moved into many jobs previously open only to men, including on Navy submarines, in Army artillery units, and as Night Stalkers, the elite special operations helicopter crews, best known for flying the Navy SEALS into Osama bin Laden's compound in 2011.

MORE

If I was still a youngster you couldnt get me to join the military in a combat role for any reason in light of this development.

Hmmm, so you'd rather hang with dudes, gotcha...

That your mind went straight to homo sex is telling......

 

[Spinster]

Big difference between a combat soldier and a sniper.
Anyone can be taught to shoot straight.[/QUOTE]

As a woman, I can shoot the hell out of my light little .22 long rifle, but know I wouldn't have the upper body strength for a heavy assault weapon. So, even though I can shoot mighty straight there's no way I could be a sniper like my dad was in WWII.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Big difference between a combat soldier and a sniper.
Anyone can be taught to shoot straight.

As a woman, I can shoot the hell out of my light little .22 long rifle, but know I wouldn't have the upper body strength for a heavy assault weapon. So, even though I can shoot mighty straight there's no way I could be a sniper like my dad was in WWII.[/QUOTE]

Sure you could.
You dont have to hold the weight of the weapon to shoot it(called offhand)you use a bipod or other object to rest the rifle on.

 

[I amso IR]

My take on this topic is as follows. Women should have every right to die, as that given and expected of men. They should have the same right to POW status as men. To insure this equality it is necessary to increase their numbers offered to the god of war. As a retired First Sergeant, US Army, my position is let them fight, and die, along side of their sisters and brothers. It is time for the women to pay the male price for equality. Death before dishonor!

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

My take on this topic is as follows. Women should have every right to die, as that given and expected of men. They should have the same right to POW status as men. To insure this equality it is necessary to increase their numbers offered to the god of war. As a retired First Sergeant, US Army, my position is let them fight, and die, along side of their sisters and brothers. It is time for the women to pay the male price for equality. Death before dishonor!

Thats all well and good but it has nothing to do with that.
My main concern is strength and endurance. If these women can display that they have both and they're equal to the task I'd be open to it,but that doesnt mean I'd like it.
I see women fighting as a last resort.

And I know I wouldnt want someone who wasnt up to the task trying to drag my shot ass to cover only to get us both killed.

 

[waltky]

Carter gettin' ready to draft womens...

DOD: Now That Women Can Serve in All Combat Roles They 'May' Need to Register for Selective Service
December 4, 2015 | Following his announcement that he is opening all positions in the U.S. military--including all combat positions--to women who can meet the standards, Defense Secretary Ash Carter was asked on Thursday if that means women will have to register with the Selective Service, just as men must do. "It may," he said.

A reporter asked Carter, "Mr. Secretary, does this decision now lead to a -- a greater debate about whether women need to register for Selective Service?" "It may do that, Phil," Carter replied. "That is a matter of legal dispute right now, and in fact, litigation. So...I don't know how that will turn out. "I--by the way-- the legal, that legal determination won't affect what I announce today; that is, our timetable for the implementation of the decisions I've announced today. But it is an issue that's out there. Unfortunately, it's subject to litigation." (As Courthouse News reported in July, a New Jersey woman is suing the Selective Service System on equal-protection grounds, arguing "there is no legitimate reason for the government to discriminate against the female class.")

"They'll be allowed to drive tanks, fire mortars, and lead infantry soldiers into combat. They'll be able to serve as Army Rangers and Green Berets, Navy SEALS, Marine Corps infantry, Air Force parajumpers and everything else that was previously open only to men. "And even more importantly, our military will be better able to harness the skills and perspectives that talented women have to offer. No exceptions was the recommendation of the secretary of the Army, the secretary of the Air Force, and the secretary of the Navy, as well as the chief of staff of the Army, chief of staff of the Air Force, chief of Naval operations, and the commander of U.S. Special Operations Command."

The Marine Corps, however, asked for a partial exception. It wanted to keep the infantry, machine gunner, and fire support reconnaissance men-only, but Carter said no. "We are a joint force, and I have decided to make a decision which applies to the entire force," he said. "I did review the Marine Corps data, surveys, studies, and also the recommendation of the commandant of the Marine Corps at the time, of course who was General Dunford, now our (Joint Chiefs) chairman, that certain Marine Corps specialties remain closed to women. I reviewed that information and I looked at it carefully. "I also heard from other leaders of other services who had studied similar issues in their own force, the recommendations of the other service secretaries and service chiefs, and I came to a different conclusion in respect of those specialties in the Marine Corps."

MORE