Zone1 Without God, right and wrong are just personal beliefs.

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Without God good and evil are just personal opinions, without any of those opinions being superior to the other. Stalin’s definition is just as valid as yours. And that opinion can change depending upon the circumstances.

It just becomes a slippery slope as broken, sinful society decays further from truth and integrity.

Instead of jst making up stuff, you might want to read up on the topic and understand what research and better developped minds have to say

Book Excerpt: GOOD WITHOUT GOD - TheHumanist.com

“It’s not easy to live a good life or be a good person—with or without a god,” writes Harvard Humanist Chaplain Greg Epstein in the introduction to his new book, Good Without God: What a Billion Nonreligious People Do Believe.” Tolerant, fair-minded people of all religions or none do not dwell...

thehumanist.com

A couple of excerpts....the whole thing is worth reading

It’s not easy to live a good life or be a good person—with or without a god,” writes Harvard Humanist Chaplain Greg Epstein in the introduction to his new book, Good Without God: What a Billion Nonreligious People Do Believe.” Tolerant, fair-minded people of all religions or none do not dwell on the question of whether we can be good without God,” Epstein continues. “The answer is yes. Period. Millions and millions of people are, every day. However, the question why we can be good without God is much more relevant and interesting. And the question of how we can be good without God is absolutely crucial. Those are the questions in this book—the essential questions asked and answered by Humanism.”

Another important and Humanistic alternative to prayer you don’t need me to tell you about—but which is important to mention—is the appreciation of nature and the arts. Just as frequent reminders of the importance of compassion and the golden rule can be helpful (see chapter 4), we secular people can’t be reminded too often that art and the natural world are always there waiting for us to appreciate and take part in them.

 

[dblack]

Without God good and evil are just personal opinions

Claims of what gods consider good and evil are also just personal opinions.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Evidence and reason are amoral, and relying on them doesn't always lead to a superior moral outcome.

Of course not. People make mistakes But the best morality will ALWAYS come from reason, as opposed to the alternatives.

So, always use reason. A very safe bet.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Evidence and reason are amoral, and relying on them doesn't always lead to a superior moral outcome. A lion is justified in committing infanticide and cannibalism because evidence and reason lead to the conclusion that he is more likely to spread his DNA by eliminating his rival's children and forcing his new pride of females into estrus.
There are many examples that can be given wherein reason and morality are at odds.

Logical Fallacy of the False Equivalency kind. Wild animals have few choices when it comes to survival. Humans generally do not need to kill each other to survive. When they do kill, it is often in the name of god and some perverted sense of morality, In other case it is motivated .not by reason and evidence, but the lack thereof

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Now, what factors of human wellbeing are objective? Are they better for the individual or mankind, and is it an objective positive that mankind even exists? It can be strongly argued that it is not a positive for the planet's ecosystems.

Here I may have to agree....... to a point. But the fact is that we are here and we have the ability to behave in a way that does no harm to others or the earth. Unfortunatly, there are those who mental defrcts, ignorace, greed and lust to control what they do, and it has nothing to do with a belief in god

 

[Blues Man]

Yet the atheists insist they know right and wrong.

They are mere opinions, none more valid than another.

Right and wrong do not need to be dictated by some god because they are arguments of reason.

Tell me do you think you would be a raping , murdering, pedophile and thief you weren't afraid of a god?

 

[dblack]

Right and wrong do not need to be dictated by some god because they are arguments of reason.

Tell me do you think you would be a raping , murdering, rapist if you weren't afraid of a god?

You might not want to know the answer.

 

[Blues Man]

You tell me. Where does it say murder and rape are wrong in the Buddhist faith?

Buddhism condemns violence in any form

And besides Buddhism isn;t a religion and worships no deity it's a humanist philosophy

 

[Blues Man]

In order to define evil, one must have a definition of good.
And ‘good’ is normally defined in the Judeo Christian faith.

When you name the good you create the evil for nothing can exist without the presence of its opposite.

 

[BreezeWood]

no different than those that base their religion and life on 2 individuals from 4000 years ago, abraham and moses who claimed to talk to the heavens without a shred of evidence and who's lies, the false 10 commandments of moses have been used to persecute and victimize the innocent - 2020. and abraham's hereditary idolatry.

Good to hear from the nether world!

that's the weatherman ... their false 10 commandments they use to persecute and victimize the innocent and make accusations against atheism where they have no more knowledge of the heavens than anyone else - of anyone else who has ever lived.

prove their worth, integrity - 2020 - provide the stone tablets etched in the heavens claimed by the liar moses or remove the phony commandments from all 3 desert bibles. and the hereditary idolatry of abraham.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

The word you are looking for is authoritative. And yes, it is.

Why?

 

[hadit]

Of course not. People make mistakes But the best morality will ALWAYS come from reason, as opposed to the alternatives.

So, always use reason. A very safe bet.

Selfishness is logical and reasonable. Genocide is also. So, no.

 

[hadit]

Logical Fallacy of the False Equivalency kind. Wild animals have few choices when it comes to survival. Humans generally do not need to kill each other to survive. When they do kill, it is often in the name of god and some perverted sense of morality, In other case it is motivated .not by reason and evidence, but the lack thereof

That sounds an awful lot like morality is subjective. If I am marooned on an island, for example, with 10 other people (two of whom are injured and cannot help the group in any way) and very limited supplies, reason would dictate that we kill the sick and injured, as they represent a net drain on everyone else. Morality dictates self-sacrifice for the good of others, reason dictates selfishness at the detriment of others.

 

[hadit]

Right and wrong do not need to be dictated by some god because they are arguments of reason.

Tell me do you think you would be a raping , murdering, pedophile and thief you weren't afraid of a god?

Let's turn that around and ask what prevents you from being a raping, murdering pedophile and thief if there is no God who gave you a conscience?

 

[Blues Man]

Let's turn that around and ask what prevents you from being a raping, murdering pedophile and thief if there is no God who gave you a conscience?

Humanistic reasoning.

All morals are based in humanism and religion has just coopted them and added sin and salvation to the concept.

 

[hadit]

Why?

1. Because it comes from God, as opposed to a selfish man.
2. Because it benefits all mankind, as opposed to a selfish man.
3. Because it matches up with what we instinctively understand is right.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

That sounds an awful lot like morality is subjective. If I am marooned on an island, for example, with 10 other people (two of whom are injured and cannot help the group in any way) and very limited supplies, reason would dictate that we kill the sick and injured, as they represent a net drain on everyone else. Morality dictates self-sacrifice for the good of others, reason dictates selfishness at the detriment of others.

Another False Equivalency Logical Fallacy. The limits of human compassion and selflessness are tested under extreme conditions and do not always hold up. I am talking about the normal course of human events where people do not have to choose between cannibalism and survival. Nothing that you have said remotely supports your position that morality is entirely subjective and regulated by an imaginary force outside of our selves and society

 

[hadit]

Another False Equivalency Logical Fallacy. The limits of human compassion and selflessness are tested under extreme conditions and do not always hold up. I am talking about the normal course of human events where people do not have to choose between cannibalism and survival. Nothing that you have said remotely supports your position that morality is entirely subjective and regulated by an imaginary force outside of our selves and society

It has been acceptable in human history for one tribe to commit genocide and completely enslave another tribe for a lot longer than it's been viewed as unacceptable. The same with eliminating the weakest members of the tribe when supplies become scarce. IOW, absent the presence of God, morality has been subjective and based in circumstances since the beginning of man. From whence comes the conscience?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

It has been acceptable in human history for one tribe to commit genocide and completely enslave another tribe for a lot longer than it's been viewed as unacceptable. The same with eliminating the weakest members of the tribe when supplies become scarce. IOW, absent the presence of God, morality has been subjective and based in circumstances since the beginning of man. From whence comes the conscience?

Were all of those tribes atheists? I don't think so

 

[hadit]

Were all of those tribes atheists? I don't think so

What's your point in saying that? My point is that morality without God's direction HAS BEEN subjective throughout human history.