WISCONSIN:'Constitutional crisis'...Senate Orders Arrest Of Missing Democrats

[Sarah G]

Seen the musical or listened to the song? Every pay close attention to the revolutionaries in the source material?

You just keep harping on socialism. Fear, baby fear!

Fear? Only what socialism does and how it is ALWAYS applied. It's history of destruction, torture, starvation and all the ills of the world are well documented. Fact is fact, socialism and all it's collectivist cousins are evil by nature.

Out of curiosity, can you name one successful application of socialism that created a utopia, wiping out need, want and hunger?

You're the one reducing this entire protest to the evil known as socialism. Rant away oh obtuse one.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Big Fitz fears what he does not understand. He clearly does not understand democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism, and the history of the United States. He can be dismissed as easily as the birfers are dismissed.

 

[DiveCon]

Big Fitz fears what he does not understand. He clearly does not understand democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism, and the history of the United States. He can be dismissed as easily as the birfers are dismissed.

as if a dipshit like you has even a remote grasp of any of that

 

[JakeStarkey]

Divecon fears what he does not understand. He clearly does not understand democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism, and the history of the United States. He can be dismissed as easily as the birfers are dismissed.

 

[DiveCon]

Divecon fears what he does not understand. He clearly does not understand democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism, and the history of the United States. He can be dismissed as easily as the birfers are dismissed.

wrong again jokey

 

[iggy pop]

'Constitutional crisis'
Senate orders arrest of missing Democrats

(Image FOX NEWS/AP )

[SNIP]

Senate Republicans Thursday ordered the forcible detention of their 14 Democratic colleagues, who fled the state two weeks ago to avoid a vote on Gov. Scott Walker's controversial budget repair bill.

It's unclear whether the resolution and warrants seeking to force the senators back to the Capitol are legal. The state constitution prohibits the arrest of legislators while in session unless they're suspected of committing felonies, treason or breach of the peace.

However, an attorney for Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, R-Juneau, said rounding up the senators is legal under a constitutional provision that allows the Senate to enforce its own rules.

[/SNIP]

This should be good...

Weren't these loads elcted to do a job? When you don't do your job you should be fired.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I see you continue to chop up my posts instead of writing whole responses. It causes a disconnected conversation. But I have come to expect that from the right because the truth is always their menace that needs to be obscured. Also, wasn't it you who chastises for name calling? Better take your own advice windbag.

And I see that you continue to emulate Obama and blather on incoherently rather than address the points I am making. But I have come to expect that from the left because they have always believed that if they drown poeple in bullshit no one will notice that they are not actually saying anything. By the way, I never chastise anyone for name calling. In fact, when people call me on calling them names I usually point out that telling them that they are spouting talking points is not calling them names. I am quite capable of calling people names, and will do so, I just rarely do. If I called you one you deserved it, in my opinion, so stop whining.

It's ironic that you accuse me of believing everything I read, then you proceed to spout everything Gov Walker says. If anything has become clear about Walker, he is a liar. It is also clear from his phone conversation and his actions since gaining office that he gained the power of Governor by hiding his real agenda from the people of Wisconsin.

If I am spouting everything Governor Walker says it must be because he is using the same facts I am to make his point. I have not read anything he is saying, nor have I listened to his speeches. Why should I? I am watching the very same battle being fought in California, and watching Democrats point out the facts.

Whatever happened in that phone conversation, Obama actually sent in troublemakers from across the country. The fact that I have not condemned him for using a tried and true political technique shows that I, at least, have honesty going for me. The fact that you condemn Walker for thinking about doing what Obama did, but say nothing about Obama doing, shows me you are a hack.

You accuse Obama of the same. So in the realm of your moral and ethical values, two wrongs make a right. But here's your problem; Obama didn't lie to gain office. He has done everything he said he was going to do during his campaign. If anyone should be disappointed with the President, it's liberals and progressives. Obama campaigned on health care reform, which he delivered, but he also said it must include a public option. Instead we got the early '90's Republican, Heritage Foundation generated Individual Mandate.

No, two wrongs do not make a right. However, one right, and another, more stance, do make a right. By the way, if you think only people who supported Obama have a right to be disappointed, I expect you to stop whining about everything Bush did, because I know you did not vote for him.

And it is also ironic that in the same realm of your moral and ethical values, personal responsibility doesn't apply to beloved right wing authority figures like Walker. The poor man is merely a victim of a prank caller. So anything he said during that conversation is null & void.

No it it not. Personal responsibility comes from one's actions. He admitted to thinking about sending in troublemakers, which would have been an acceptable, if sleazy, tactic. He did not do so. What, exactly, do you think I should hold him accountable for? Not doing something I personally consider sleazy? Would not that require me, if I was going to be intellectually honest, to hold Obama responsible for being sleazy, and not excuse it because he is not actually qualified to be in the position he is?

BTW, there is a response to Walker's claims about W.E.A. Trust. Should they get to respond? Probably not, because you have already decided that even though Walker has been caught lying, it really doesn't matter. He has provided you with the talking points you need.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Response to Governor Walker's Statements.

Governor Walker has stated that school districts are “forced” to buy from the WEA Trust.

* School boards bargain their benefits and carriers. The Trust only provides health insurance benefits to approximately 35% of public school employees in Wisconsin. Some of the largest school districts in Wisconsin such as Milwaukee, Madison, and Green Bay are self-insured or purchase from companies other than the Trust. Our contracts are with the school districts—not with the unions.

* Wisconsin’s health insurance industry is highly competitive and districts already solicit bids. The Trust gains and loses districts all the time. A recent example of this is the Kenosha Unified School District, which left the Trust and has returned, much due to our competitive pricing.

For example:
Trust rate increases have been BELOW national averages for the past three years. For the fourth year in a row the Trust has delivered a mid single-digit base rate increase.

Governor Walker has also stated, “If instead of being forced to buy from the WEA Trust, which is the teacher’s union health insurance company, school districts could buy off the state employee health care plan—they could save 68 million dollars.”

* School Districts are not forced to buy from the Trust and can already join the state health plan. Furthermore, the WEA Trust was chosen by the Wisconsin Group Insurance Board in 2010 to be in the State Group Health Insurance Program in 24 counties. The Trust was selected as a Tier One option, the lowest cost tier in the state plan. In order to be placed in Tier One in the state plan, the Trust must be extremely competitive. Our pricing is not an artificial price but comparable to what the Trust charges school districts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting. But why are you blaming Walker for something I got from a newspaper story? Does calling Walker a liar for something I never said he said make you a liar?

Just a point that you might want to consider. Just because the rates are below the national average, that does not mean they are actually competitive in the state. The fact that an official worded his statement to mention national average, when the article I read mentions that the prices are high for Wisconsin, makes me suspicious. It would make you suspicious too if you were honest. I really love that the trust manages to compete with itself. How, exactly, do they do that?

You said:
"So what? They have more benefits. And, as I have said before, government employment should not be a career, it should be a career move. People choose to go into government work as a career because they like the security. Earning a few dollars less for that security is part of the trade off."

This is beyond the pale. Because you have 'said it before', it is not social engineering and ignorance? You get to decide what should and shouldn't be another person's career? What their motivations should be? Based on what? Your twisted values? Really???

No, I get to point out that they made a choice when they went to work for the government, and that, if they choose to make a career out of government work, they get better job security, and better benefits. Whining about the fact that they get paid less on top of that is nothing but greed.

That is how personal responsibility actually works, just so you know.

YOU said:
"People choose to go into government work as a career because they like the security. Earning a few dollars less for that security is part of the trade off."

But that is not acceptable to YOU? What about THEM windbag, do they get to decide? And because they are not doing what YOU have decided is their calling, we have the right to slash their pay that YOU JUST ADMITTED is less?

He is not slashing their pay, he is asking them to pay contribute more to future benefits. Even with their increased contributions, they will still pay less than any other group of state workers, or federal government workers, do. What, exactly, is your beef again? Do you really expect me to support unadulterated greed at the expense of the middle class in Wisconsin?

So you want the schoolteacher who educates your children, the nurse who tends to you and your family in the hospital, the EMT's who rush to the scene of your car wreck and the snow plow driver who maneuvers by your parked car at 2 AM so you can get to work at 8AM to be rookies and entry level sorts. So they can move on to YOUR aspirations for them? To be what, a hedge fund manager, a pay day loan shark?

You really are stupid, aren't you? Teachers are free to work part time, and often take a teaching job so they can continue studying, at least the best ones do. Last time I looked, nurses were not state employees. As for snowplows, I understand they routinely wreck cars, because it is impossible to see them in snow drifts. Why should anyone pay top dollar to prevent the unpreventable?

It seems to me that what you want is to pay top dollar because you seem to think that no one will do these jobs unless you do. It does not work that way, and the best and the brightest will get better money elsewhere no matter how much you try to pay them. Personally, I would rather have people doing it that were there because that is what they want to be doing, not because they like the money.

What is really going on here is class warfare. This is an attack on the heart of what this nation was founded on, and the moral fabric of a civil society that resides in the citizens who are givers, not takers. NO ONE decides to become a schoolteacher, a nurse or an EMT for personal gain or to get rich monetarily.

Republicans have decided the only way to place the final nail in the coffin of the New Deal and what made America the envy of the world, a robust middle class, is to demonize the givers and hail the takers. That way they can do what conservatives have always done. Create an aristocracy. Since Reagan, Republicans have worked hard to recreate the plutocracy and aristocracy of the Gilded Age.

The LEAST patriotic takers in America today are the mega corporations like the Koch brothers who are one of the biggest polluters on the planet and Walker's puppeteers. They have sold out America and her people for personal gain. They have been able to internalize their profits and externalize their workforce and their costs, through years of buying government puppets like Walker.

Governor Walker has shown his hand, this is not about fiscal responsibility. The givers he is targeting are willing to give. They will comply with all his monetary demands. But that is not extracting enough for Walker and his corporate masters...he must extract every shred of self determination and dignity.

You are right that it is class warfare, you just have the sides wrong.

So I say to you and all the authoritarian followers and worshipers of the despot Walkers of the world...it will not stop with schoolteachers, nurses, EMT's, snowplow drivers or unions...

When the Nazis came for the schoolteachers,
I remained silent;
I was not a schoolteacher.

Actually, if the Nazi's ever do show up again, and go after idiots like you, I will be tempted to cheer them on. I hope that I will not, but I will honestly be tempted to do so, the world would be just a little more bearable without your constant whining.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Divecon fears what he does not understand. He clearly does not understand democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism, and the history of the United States. He can be dismissed as easily as the birfers are dismissed.

wrong again jokey

You are as credulous of stupidity as gstarz or any other birther or even bigrebnc. You are not as evil hearted as either of them, but you are very, very easily led by folks who do not care about you at all. I imagine it has generally been that way in your life.

 

[DiveCon]

Divecon fears what he does not understand. He clearly does not understand democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism, and the history of the United States. He can be dismissed as easily as the birfers are dismissed.

wrong again jokey

You are as credulous of stupidity as gstarz or any other birther or even bigrebnc. You are not as evil hearted as either of them, but you are very, very easily led by folks who do not care about you at all. I imagine it has generally been that way in your life.

you are a pathological LIAR
no one takes anything you say serious, at least not anyone with any brains

 

[Big Fitz]

You just keep harping on socialism. Fear, baby fear!

Fear? Only what socialism does and how it is ALWAYS applied. It's history of destruction, torture, starvation and all the ills of the world are well documented. Fact is fact, socialism and all it's collectivist cousins are evil by nature.

Out of curiosity, can you name one successful application of socialism that created a utopia, wiping out need, want and hunger?

You're the one reducing this entire protest to the evil known as socialism. Rant away oh obtuse one.

Can't help it if that's the essence to what is going on. The push to protect socialist advances.

 

[BenNatuf]

The word for the day...VALUE

WEA Trust delivers 93 cents on every dollar a member pays in the form of benefits. The private insurance cartels are being forced to spend 80 cents in the form of benefits by the new Affordable Care Act. It was necessary because Wall Street investors, who control the health insurance industry were severely punishing insurance companies that paid out too much for benefits. It is the root cause of the REAL death panels, insurance cartels denying coverage for severe illnesses.

National survey scores WEA Trust number one in Wisconsin.

Survey also ranks Wisconsin's school health plan third in the nation

http://www.weatrust.com/wea/weamain.nsf/dr_dlview/CAHPSrelease.pdf/$file/CAHPSrelease.pdf?OpenElement

WEA Trust: Not Your Typical Insurance Company

WEA Trust is the number one health insurance provider in the state of Wisconsin and the number two provider in the US, according to the recent 2009 Consumer Assessment of Healthcare Providers and Systems (CAHPS) survey, an independent national survey which includes hundreds of health plans across the country. The Trust has the advantage of serving a captive audience: it was created by the largest teacher’s union in the state, Wisconsin Educational Association Council (WEAC), to serve all public school districts with a WEAC affiliate, which total approximately 400 districts. From its inception nearly 40 years ago, the company has been striving to be a different kind of insurance company.

“Most people don’t trust their health insurance provider,” said CEO Fred Evert. “We aim to establish long-term relationships with our members to help them be as healthy, productive, and as financially secure as possible.”

He explained that this mission is achieved in part through the Trust’s emphasis on excellent customer service. The organization is exceedingly efficient: Evert said the company has historically delivered 93 cents on every dollar a member pays in the form of benefits. Furthermore, the company still has every call answered personally by a staff member during business hours and strives to have members transferred only once. The company also staffs extra hands before and after school hours when most teachers have time to call their insurance company.

Over the last few years, the Trust has made several investments in its infrastructure to augment its customer service, including adding 60,000 square feet of space to its campus and updating its state-of-the-art phone system. Evert added that he and his team emphasize the benefits of partnerships, such as those with Ingenix software or with the state’s Department of Public Instruction (DPI), in delivering innovative products and exceptional service—hallmarks of the Trust brand.

For example, the Trust underwrites the cost to place DPI’s anti-bullying curriculum in every middle school and high school in Wisconsin. Evert wrote an editorial that ran in all the major state newspapers to support this anti-bullying campaign, Safe and Respectful Schools, saying an unsafe school is not a healthy school. In addition to working to create safer learning environments for Wisconsin children, this partnership distinguishes the Trust as a different type of insurance company.

Through its partnership with Ingenix, the Trust uses a number of software programs to coordinate care for its members. Perhaps the most significant of these is CarePlanner Web, which allows the Trust to use claims information to identify individuals with serious medical risks. Evert said the company works with providers and members to improve quality of care and manage costs.

Evert was proud to report that because of the Trust’s innovative services and excellent service, it enjoys a member persistence rate of more than 95%. “We offer a variety of programs and services to help our members get the care they need at the right place, the right time, and at the right price,” he said.

Ensuring wellness
The Trust has a four-part wellness plan that uses technology and a personal touch to help members stay healthy. The first piece is an online health risk assessment. The company has implemented a number of incentives and educational campaigns about the benefits of such a test, and in 2007, a record 46,000 members took the assessment.

Another piece is the Ingenix ImpactPro software, which takes information from assessments and claims data to identify at-risk individuals. This allows the Trust to communicate with members and make sure they are using the resources that are available to them.

The third piece is a case management system, which includes a number of programs for members with different chronic diseases, like diabetes, cancer, or heart disease. These programs help members get the right care at the right time.

The fourth piece is a software system called Impact Intelligence, which allows the Trust to analyze claims data and work with providers to improve the quality of care. Evert said the company compares providers, partners with those who provide the highest quality care for the lowest cost, and then steers members toward them.

“The rising cost of healthcare necessitates that we choose to get care in the most efficacious and least costly settings, and this technology helps us guide members toward that,” said Evert.

Pending board approval later this year, the Trust plans to offer a new program with its wellness offerings: Trust Rewards. This program is designed to give members an incentive to engage in healthy practices and get regular screenings. The company already sends every member a birthday card on his or her 50th birthday to remind them to get a colonoscopy; Evert said screening rates improved by 22% from that simple measure alone.

The Trust also sponsors programs that include community outreach and education initiatives, like the Movin’ and Munchin’ program, which is in conjunction with the DPI. Through Movin’ and Munchin’, the company sponsors two Wisconsin Olympians to speak at school districts across the state, encouraging adults and kids to adopt healthy behaviors. With the help of the Trust, the program has increased participation nearly 400%, including 170 schools in 2008, up from 34 in 2007.

More at American Executive Magazine

I'd like that insurance too, but like the sate of WI I just can't afford it. Apparently the word for the day is largesse.

 

[BenNatuf]

Divecon fears what he does not understand. He clearly does not understand democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism, and the history of the United States. He can be dismissed as easily as the birfers are dismissed.

wrong again jokey

You are as credulous of stupidity as gstarz or any other birther or even bigrebnc. You are not as evil hearted as either of them, but you are very, very easily led by folks who do not care about you at all. I imagine it has generally been that way in your life.

You really should stop looking up words in a thesaurus to make yourself sound smarter; it's not working for you. Particularly, when your usage is ungrammatical.

"Credulous to stupidity", dumbass.

BTW Jokey, people who want you to "understand history" have an agenda they want you to support. One does not "understand" history, one knows it.

and

democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism

^^^one of these things is not like the others, one of these things is not the same^^^ can you guess which one?

Public schools?

 

[The T]

wrong again jokey

You are as credulous of stupidity as gstarz or any other birther or even bigrebnc. You are not as evil hearted as either of them, but you are very, very easily led by folks who do not care about you at all. I imagine it has generally been that way in your life.

You really should stop looking up words in a thesaurus to make yourself sound smarter; it's not working for you. Particularly, when your usage is ungrammatical.

"Credulous to stupidity", dumbass.

BTW Jokey, people who want you to "understand history" have an agenda they want you to support. One does not "understand" history, one knows it.

and

democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism

^^^one of these things is not like the others, one of these things is not the same^^^ can you guess which one?

Public schools?

Indeed. History is truth. Truth has no agenda.

 

[The T]

'Constitutional crisis'
Senate orders arrest of missing Democrats

(Image FOX NEWS/AP )

[SNIP]

Senate Republicans Thursday ordered the forcible detention of their 14 Democratic colleagues, who fled the state two weeks ago to avoid a vote on Gov. Scott Walker's controversial budget repair bill.

It's unclear whether the resolution and warrants seeking to force the senators back to the Capitol are legal. The state constitution prohibits the arrest of legislators while in session unless they're suspected of committing felonies, treason or breach of the peace.

However, an attorney for Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, R-Juneau, said rounding up the senators is legal under a constitutional provision that allows the Senate to enforce its own rules.

[/SNIP]

This should be good...

Weren't these loads elcted to do a job? When you don't do your job you should be fired.

And within that? The State of Wisconsin has prescribed ways of recalling lawmakers that fail to do their jobs. Recalls are already under way for a few of these wayward AWOL Statists for their shenanigans.

 

[Bfgrn]

I see you continue to chop up my posts instead of writing whole responses. It causes a disconnected conversation. But I have come to expect that from the right because the truth is always their menace that needs to be obscured. Also, wasn't it you who chastises for name calling? Better take your own advice windbag.

And I see that you continue to emulate Obama and blather on incoherently rather than address the points I am making. But I have come to expect that from the left because they have always believed that if they drown poeple in bullshit no one will notice that they are not actually saying anything. By the way, I never chastise anyone for name calling. In fact, when people call me on calling them names I usually point out that telling them that they are spouting talking points is not calling them names. I am quite capable of calling people names, and will do so, I just rarely do. If I called you one you deserved it, in my opinion, so stop whining.

It's ironic that you accuse me of believing everything I read, then you proceed to spout everything Gov Walker says. If anything has become clear about Walker, he is a liar. It is also clear from his phone conversation and his actions since gaining office that he gained the power of Governor by hiding his real agenda from the people of Wisconsin.

If I am spouting everything Governor Walker says it must be because he is using the same facts I am to make his point. I have not read anything he is saying, nor have I listened to his speeches. Why should I? I am watching the very same battle being fought in California, and watching Democrats point out the facts.

Whatever happened in that phone conversation, Obama actually sent in troublemakers from across the country. The fact that I have not condemned him for using a tried and true political technique shows that I, at least, have honesty going for me. The fact that you condemn Walker for thinking about doing what Obama did, but say nothing about Obama doing, shows me you are a hack.



No, two wrongs do not make a right. However, one right, and another, more stance, do make a right. By the way, if you think only people who supported Obama have a right to be disappointed, I expect you to stop whining about everything Bush did, because I know you did not vote for him.



No it it not. Personal responsibility comes from one's actions. He admitted to thinking about sending in troublemakers, which would have been an acceptable, if sleazy, tactic. He did not do so. What, exactly, do you think I should hold him accountable for? Not doing something I personally consider sleazy? Would not that require me, if I was going to be intellectually honest, to hold Obama responsible for being sleazy, and not excuse it because he is not actually qualified to be in the position he is?



Interesting. But why are you blaming Walker for something I got from a newspaper story? Does calling Walker a liar for something I never said he said make you a liar?

Just a point that you might want to consider. Just because the rates are below the national average, that does not mean they are actually competitive in the state. The fact that an official worded his statement to mention national average, when the article I read mentions that the prices are high for Wisconsin, makes me suspicious. It would make you suspicious too if you were honest. I really love that the trust manages to compete with itself. How, exactly, do they do that?



No, I get to point out that they made a choice when they went to work for the government, and that, if they choose to make a career out of government work, they get better job security, and better benefits. Whining about the fact that they get paid less on top of that is nothing but greed.

That is how personal responsibility actually works, just so you know.



He is not slashing their pay, he is asking them to pay contribute more to future benefits. Even with their increased contributions, they will still pay less than any other group of state workers, or federal government workers, do. What, exactly, is your beef again? Do you really expect me to support unadulterated greed at the expense of the middle class in Wisconsin?



You really are stupid, aren't you? Teachers are free to work part time, and often take a teaching job so they can continue studying, at least the best ones do. Last time I looked, nurses were not state employees. As for snowplows, I understand they routinely wreck cars, because it is impossible to see them in snow drifts. Why should anyone pay top dollar to prevent the unpreventable?

It seems to me that what you want is to pay top dollar because you seem to think that no one will do these jobs unless you do. It does not work that way, and the best and the brightest will get better money elsewhere no matter how much you try to pay them. Personally, I would rather have people doing it that were there because that is what they want to be doing, not because they like the money.

What is really going on here is class warfare. This is an attack on the heart of what this nation was founded on, and the moral fabric of a civil society that resides in the citizens who are givers, not takers. NO ONE decides to become a schoolteacher, a nurse or an EMT for personal gain or to get rich monetarily.

Republicans have decided the only way to place the final nail in the coffin of the New Deal and what made America the envy of the world, a robust middle class, is to demonize the givers and hail the takers. That way they can do what conservatives have always done. Create an aristocracy. Since Reagan, Republicans have worked hard to recreate the plutocracy and aristocracy of the Gilded Age.

The LEAST patriotic takers in America today are the mega corporations like the Koch brothers who are one of the biggest polluters on the planet and Walker's puppeteers. They have sold out America and her people for personal gain. They have been able to internalize their profits and externalize their workforce and their costs, through years of buying government puppets like Walker.

Governor Walker has shown his hand, this is not about fiscal responsibility. The givers he is targeting are willing to give. They will comply with all his monetary demands. But that is not extracting enough for Walker and his corporate masters...he must extract every shred of self determination and dignity.

You are right that it is class warfare, you just have the sides wrong.

So I say to you and all the authoritarian followers and worshipers of the despot Walkers of the world...it will not stop with schoolteachers, nurses, EMT's, snowplow drivers or unions...

When the Nazis came for the schoolteachers,
I remained silent;
I was not a schoolteacher.

Actually, if the Nazi's ever do show up again, and go after idiots like you, I will be tempted to cheer them on. I hope that I will not, but I will honestly be tempted to do so, the world would be just a little more bearable without your constant whining.

WOW, maybe I should be incinerated huh windbag? How tolerant and democratic.

As to your accusations that Obama sent in troublemakers, you are only missing one minute detail...TROUBLE...there have been no arrests or 'trouble', but don't let facts deter your right wing dogma.

Walker IS cutting the teacher's pay windbag.

Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to "contribute more" to their pension and health insurance plans.

Accepting Gov. Walker' s assertions as fact, and failing to check, created the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not.

Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin' s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

How can that be? Because the "contributions" consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash. The same is true with the health care plan. If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services.

Thus, state workers are not being asked to simply "contribute more" to Wisconsin' s retirement system (or as the argument goes, "pay their fair share" of retirement costs as do employees in Wisconsin' s private sector who still have pensions and health insurance). They are being asked to accept a cut in their salaries so that the state of Wisconsin can use the money to fill the hole left by tax cuts and reduced audits of corporations in Wisconsin.

More at Tax.com

BTW windbag...WHAT would replace the public unions? I am willing to bet it will be rampant nepotism and jobs for political cronies. You folks on the right profess government can do nothing right, but SUDDENLY they can hire and fire with impunity and without corruption or political favors. WHY is that?

So you want the schoolteacher who educates your children, the nurse who tends to you and your family in the hospital, the EMT's who rush to the scene of your car wreck and the snow plow driver who maneuvers by your parked car at 2 AM so you can get to work at 8AM to be jobs with a high turnover and relegated to rookies and people at entry level pay scale.

You folks on the right are textbook examples of the 'cynic' Oscar Wilde so aptly describes: "A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing."

And the right's ideas and proposals on the local, state and federal level invites the fate of Robert Frost's hired man: the fate of having "nothing to look backward to with pride, and nothing to look forward to with hope."

 

[BenNatuf]

I see you continue to chop up my posts instead of writing whole responses. It causes a disconnected conversation. But I have come to expect that from the right because the truth is always their menace that needs to be obscured. Also, wasn't it you who chastises for name calling? Better take your own advice windbag.

And I see that you continue to emulate Obama and blather on incoherently rather than address the points I am making. But I have come to expect that from the left because they have always believed that if they drown poeple in bullshit no one will notice that they are not actually saying anything. By the way, I never chastise anyone for name calling. In fact, when people call me on calling them names I usually point out that telling them that they are spouting talking points is not calling them names. I am quite capable of calling people names, and will do so, I just rarely do. If I called you one you deserved it, in my opinion, so stop whining.



If I am spouting everything Governor Walker says it must be because he is using the same facts I am to make his point. I have not read anything he is saying, nor have I listened to his speeches. Why should I? I am watching the very same battle being fought in California, and watching Democrats point out the facts.

Whatever happened in that phone conversation, Obama actually sent in troublemakers from across the country. The fact that I have not condemned him for using a tried and true political technique shows that I, at least, have honesty going for me. The fact that you condemn Walker for thinking about doing what Obama did, but say nothing about Obama doing, shows me you are a hack.



No, two wrongs do not make a right. However, one right, and another, more stance, do make a right. By the way, if you think only people who supported Obama have a right to be disappointed, I expect you to stop whining about everything Bush did, because I know you did not vote for him.



No it it not. Personal responsibility comes from one's actions. He admitted to thinking about sending in troublemakers, which would have been an acceptable, if sleazy, tactic. He did not do so. What, exactly, do you think I should hold him accountable for? Not doing something I personally consider sleazy? Would not that require me, if I was going to be intellectually honest, to hold Obama responsible for being sleazy, and not excuse it because he is not actually qualified to be in the position he is?



Interesting. But why are you blaming Walker for something I got from a newspaper story? Does calling Walker a liar for something I never said he said make you a liar?

Just a point that you might want to consider. Just because the rates are below the national average, that does not mean they are actually competitive in the state. The fact that an official worded his statement to mention national average, when the article I read mentions that the prices are high for Wisconsin, makes me suspicious. It would make you suspicious too if you were honest. I really love that the trust manages to compete with itself. How, exactly, do they do that?



No, I get to point out that they made a choice when they went to work for the government, and that, if they choose to make a career out of government work, they get better job security, and better benefits. Whining about the fact that they get paid less on top of that is nothing but greed.

That is how personal responsibility actually works, just so you know.



He is not slashing their pay, he is asking them to pay contribute more to future benefits. Even with their increased contributions, they will still pay less than any other group of state workers, or federal government workers, do. What, exactly, is your beef again? Do you really expect me to support unadulterated greed at the expense of the middle class in Wisconsin?



You really are stupid, aren't you? Teachers are free to work part time, and often take a teaching job so they can continue studying, at least the best ones do. Last time I looked, nurses were not state employees. As for snowplows, I understand they routinely wreck cars, because it is impossible to see them in snow drifts. Why should anyone pay top dollar to prevent the unpreventable?

It seems to me that what you want is to pay top dollar because you seem to think that no one will do these jobs unless you do. It does not work that way, and the best and the brightest will get better money elsewhere no matter how much you try to pay them. Personally, I would rather have people doing it that were there because that is what they want to be doing, not because they like the money.



You are right that it is class warfare, you just have the sides wrong.

So I say to you and all the authoritarian followers and worshipers of the despot Walkers of the world...it will not stop with schoolteachers, nurses, EMT's, snowplow drivers or unions...

When the Nazis came for the schoolteachers,
I remained silent;
I was not a schoolteacher.

Actually, if the Nazi's ever do show up again, and go after idiots like you, I will be tempted to cheer them on. I hope that I will not, but I will honestly be tempted to do so, the world would be just a little more bearable without your constant whining.

WOW, maybe I should be incinerated huh windbag? How tolerant and democratic.

As to your accusations that Obama sent in troublemakers, you are only missing one minute detail...TROUBLE...there have been no arrests or 'trouble', but don't let facts deter your right wing dogma.

Walker IS cutting the teacher's pay windbag.

Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to "contribute more" to their pension and health insurance plans.

Accepting Gov. Walker' s assertions as fact, and failing to check, created the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not.

Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin' s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

How can that be? Because the "contributions" consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash. The same is true with the health care plan. If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services.

Thus, state workers are not being asked to simply "contribute more" to Wisconsin' s retirement system (or as the argument goes, "pay their fair share" of retirement costs as do employees in Wisconsin' s private sector who still have pensions and health insurance). They are being asked to accept a cut in their salaries so that the state of Wisconsin can use the money to fill the hole left by tax cuts and reduced audits of corporations in Wisconsin.

More at Tax.com

BTW windbag...WHAT would replace the public unions? I am willing to bet it will be rampant nepotism and jobs for political cronies. You folks on the right profess government can do nothing right, but SUDDENLY they can hire and fire with impunity and without corruption or political favors. WHY is that?

So you want the schoolteacher who educates your children, the nurse who tends to you and your family in the hospital, the EMT's who rush to the scene of your car wreck and the snow plow driver who maneuvers by your parked car at 2 AM so you can get to work at 8AM to be jobs with a high turnover and relegated to rookies and people at entry level pay scale.

You folks on the right are textbook examples of the 'cynic' Oscar Wilde so aptly describes: "A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing."

And the right's ideas and proposals on the local, state and federal level invites the fate of Robert Frost's hired man: the fate of having "nothing to look backward to with pride, and nothing to look forward to with hope."

Unions hire people to work for the government? Please, tell us how this works.

 

[JakeStarkey]

wrong again jokey

You are as credulous of stupidity as gstarz or any other birther or even bigrebnc. You are not as evil hearted as either of them, but you are very, very easily led by folks who do not care about you at all. I imagine it has generally been that way in your life.

You really should stop looking up words in a thesaurus to make yourself sound smarter; it's not working for you. Particularly, when your usage is ungrammatical. "Credulous to stupidity", dumbass.
BTW Jokey, people who want you to "understand history" have an agenda they want you to support. One does not "understand" history, one knows it. and

democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism

^^^one of these things is not like the others, one of these things is not the same^^^ can you guess which one?
Public schools?

When cretins like you criticize folks like me, I feel good. You are the one with an agenda, and I am the one who is tipping it over. If our party is going to run on BHO is a Kenyan and a Muslim, we will lose to the Dems by 15% next year in the presidential race.

George Will, just like Buckley fifty years ago, has called out the far right slime in the party as unworthy to associate with. He is 100% correct.

Keep posting your thinking, please.

 

[BenNatuf]

You are as credulous of stupidity as gstarz or any other birther or even bigrebnc. You are not as evil hearted as either of them, but you are very, very easily led by folks who do not care about you at all. I imagine it has generally been that way in your life.

You really should stop looking up words in a thesaurus to make yourself sound smarter; it's not working for you. Particularly, when your usage is ungrammatical. "Credulous to stupidity", dumbass.
BTW Jokey, people who want you to "understand history" have an agenda they want you to support. One does not "understand" history, one knows it. and

democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism

^^^one of these things is not like the others, one of these things is not the same^^^ can you guess which one?
Public schools?

When cretins like you criticize folks like me, I feel good. You are the one with an agenda, and I am the one who is tipping it over. If our party is going to run on BHO is a Kenyan and a Muslim, we will lose to the Dems by 15% next year in the presidential race.

George Will, just like Buckley fifty years ago, has called out the far right slime in the party as unworthy to associate with. He is 100% correct.

Keep posting your thinking, please.

So laughably funny. I've been a republican for more than 30 years and the one thing I know is, you ain't one. Did you start this meme as a "plant" from the DU and now just can't drop it? Ever hear me claim BHO is a Muslim or Kenyan dumb ass?

 

[Bfgrn]

You are as credulous of stupidity as gstarz or any other birther or even bigrebnc. You are not as evil hearted as either of them, but you are very, very easily led by folks who do not care about you at all. I imagine it has generally been that way in your life.

You really should stop looking up words in a thesaurus to make yourself sound smarter; it's not working for you. Particularly, when your usage is ungrammatical. "Credulous to stupidity", dumbass.
BTW Jokey, people who want you to "understand history" have an agenda they want you to support. One does not "understand" history, one knows it. and

democracy, republicanism, constitutionalism, social democracy, socialism

^^^one of these things is not like the others, one of these things is not the same^^^ can you guess which one?
Public schools?

When cretins like you criticize folks like me, I feel good. You are the one with an agenda, and I am the one who is tipping it over. If our party is going to run on BHO is a Kenyan and a Muslim, we will lose to the Dems by 15% next year in the presidential race.

George Will, just like Buckley fifty years ago, has called out the far right slime in the party as unworthy to associate with. He is 100% correct.

Keep posting your thinking, please.

From William F. Buckley's son Christopher, who endorsed Obama:

'Dear Pup once said to me sigh-fully after a right-winger who fancied himself a William F. Buckley protégé had said something transcendentally and provocatively cretinous, “You know, I’ve spent my entire life time separating the Right from the kooks.” Well, the dear man did his best.'

 

[Bfgrn]

The word for the day...VALUE

WEA Trust delivers 93 cents on every dollar a member pays in the form of benefits. The private insurance cartels are being forced to spend 80 cents in the form of benefits by the new Affordable Care Act. It was necessary because Wall Street investors, who control the health insurance industry were severely punishing insurance companies that paid out too much for benefits. It is the root cause of the REAL death panels, insurance cartels denying coverage for severe illnesses.

National survey scores WEA Trust number one in Wisconsin.

Survey also ranks Wisconsin's school health plan third in the nation

http://www.weatrust.com/wea/weamain.nsf/dr_dlview/CAHPSrelease.pdf/$file/CAHPSrelease.pdf?OpenElement

WEA Trust: Not Your Typical Insurance Company

WEA Trust is the number one health insurance provider in the state of Wisconsin and the number two provider in the US, according to the recent 2009 Consumer Assessment of Healthcare Providers and Systems (CAHPS) survey, an independent national survey which includes hundreds of health plans across the country. The Trust has the advantage of serving a captive audience: it was created by the largest teacher’s union in the state, Wisconsin Educational Association Council (WEAC), to serve all public school districts with a WEAC affiliate, which total approximately 400 districts. From its inception nearly 40 years ago, the company has been striving to be a different kind of insurance company.

“Most people don’t trust their health insurance provider,” said CEO Fred Evert. “We aim to establish long-term relationships with our members to help them be as healthy, productive, and as financially secure as possible.”

He explained that this mission is achieved in part through the Trust’s emphasis on excellent customer service. The organization is exceedingly efficient: Evert said the company has historically delivered 93 cents on every dollar a member pays in the form of benefits. Furthermore, the company still has every call answered personally by a staff member during business hours and strives to have members transferred only once. The company also staffs extra hands before and after school hours when most teachers have time to call their insurance company.

Over the last few years, the Trust has made several investments in its infrastructure to augment its customer service, including adding 60,000 square feet of space to its campus and updating its state-of-the-art phone system. Evert added that he and his team emphasize the benefits of partnerships, such as those with Ingenix software or with the state’s Department of Public Instruction (DPI), in delivering innovative products and exceptional service—hallmarks of the Trust brand.

For example, the Trust underwrites the cost to place DPI’s anti-bullying curriculum in every middle school and high school in Wisconsin. Evert wrote an editorial that ran in all the major state newspapers to support this anti-bullying campaign, Safe and Respectful Schools, saying an unsafe school is not a healthy school. In addition to working to create safer learning environments for Wisconsin children, this partnership distinguishes the Trust as a different type of insurance company.

Through its partnership with Ingenix, the Trust uses a number of software programs to coordinate care for its members. Perhaps the most significant of these is CarePlanner Web, which allows the Trust to use claims information to identify individuals with serious medical risks. Evert said the company works with providers and members to improve quality of care and manage costs.

Evert was proud to report that because of the Trust’s innovative services and excellent service, it enjoys a member persistence rate of more than 95%. “We offer a variety of programs and services to help our members get the care they need at the right place, the right time, and at the right price,” he said.

Ensuring wellness
The Trust has a four-part wellness plan that uses technology and a personal touch to help members stay healthy. The first piece is an online health risk assessment. The company has implemented a number of incentives and educational campaigns about the benefits of such a test, and in 2007, a record 46,000 members took the assessment.

Another piece is the Ingenix ImpactPro software, which takes information from assessments and claims data to identify at-risk individuals. This allows the Trust to communicate with members and make sure they are using the resources that are available to them.

The third piece is a case management system, which includes a number of programs for members with different chronic diseases, like diabetes, cancer, or heart disease. These programs help members get the right care at the right time.

The fourth piece is a software system called Impact Intelligence, which allows the Trust to analyze claims data and work with providers to improve the quality of care. Evert said the company compares providers, partners with those who provide the highest quality care for the lowest cost, and then steers members toward them.

“The rising cost of healthcare necessitates that we choose to get care in the most efficacious and least costly settings, and this technology helps us guide members toward that,” said Evert.

Pending board approval later this year, the Trust plans to offer a new program with its wellness offerings: Trust Rewards. This program is designed to give members an incentive to engage in healthy practices and get regular screenings. The company already sends every member a birthday card on his or her 50th birthday to remind them to get a colonoscopy; Evert said screening rates improved by 22% from that simple measure alone.

The Trust also sponsors programs that include community outreach and education initiatives, like the Movin’ and Munchin’ program, which is in conjunction with the DPI. Through Movin’ and Munchin’, the company sponsors two Wisconsin Olympians to speak at school districts across the state, encouraging adults and kids to adopt healthy behaviors. With the help of the Trust, the program has increased participation nearly 400%, including 170 schools in 2008, up from 34 in 2007.

More at American Executive Magazine

I'd like that insurance too, but like the sate of WI I just can't afford it. Apparently the word for the day is largesse.

Charity huh? Everyone should have health insurance like that, because health care should be a right, not a privilege. But thank you for verifying what I have often thought of you right wing cretins...as children, you were the kids who were 'present counters'. When the families got together for Christmas, you were the kid who threw himself on the floor and had a tantrum when one of your cousins got one more present than you.

BTW, you are dead wrong on your charity claim.

Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to "contribute more" to their pension and health insurance plans.

Accepting Gov. Walker' s assertions as fact, and failing to check, created the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not.

Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin' s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

How can that be? Because the "contributions" consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash. The same is true with the health care plan. If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services.

Thus, state workers are not being asked to simply "contribute more" to Wisconsin' s retirement system (or as the argument goes, "pay their fair share" of retirement costs as do employees in Wisconsin' s private sector who still have pensions and health insurance). They are being asked to accept a cut in their salaries so that the state of Wisconsin can use the money to fill the hole left by tax cuts and reduced audits of corporations in Wisconsin.

More at tax.com