Wind Turbine's CO2 Emissions increasing and largest new source of CO2

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry, but a fuel whose use is going to cause mass stavation, water shortages and force the relocation of hundreds of millions of people and the abandonment of hundreds of trillions of dollars worth of real estate and infrastructure can no longer be used.

I could care less what energy technology replaces fossil fuel; only that it get replaced.

Which is exactly why we should be investing in nuclear as a priority

The 4th gen IFRs are the way to go for large power plants along with smaller MSR reactors for a more decentralized power production

 

[Crick]

Fine by me. But do not push a false dichotomy. It is quite simple to use all available technologies. Different locations will have different suitabilities for environmental sources (wind, solar, tide, geo, etc). None is a magic bullet and nothing is forcing us to make artificial choices.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Fine by me. But do not push a false dichotomy. It is quite simple to use all available technologies. Different locations will have different suitabilities for environmental sources (wind, solar, tide, geo, etc). None is a magic bullet and nothing is forcing us to make artificial choices.

I never said not to use it
I said put it in perspective
Wind and solar are at best supplemental power sources
Great for small application but totally inadequate for our power needs which will more than double by 2050 and triple by 2100

 

[Crick]

Their portion of the total grid has been increasing. What do you believe will prevent them from increasing further?

 

[anotherlife]

Wind Turbines CO2 pollution, it is a theme of mine, and when I find new information that confirms this fact I like to share it. CO2, Wind Turbine manufacture (as well as Solar Panel manufacture) is now the largest new source of CO2 in the atmosphere. It is a figure that is never discussed and completely absent from all the Green Renewable energy websites.

This article looks like it is only addressing the rebar and concrete, neglecting the production of fiberglass and the other exotic materials

How Much CO2 Gets Emitted to Build a Wind Turbine?

Its carbon footprint is massive – try 241.85 tons of CO2.

Here’s the breakdown of the CO2 numbers.

To create a 1,000 Kg of pig iron, you start with 1,800 Kg of iron ore, 900 Kg of coking coal 450 Kg of limestone. The blast furnace consumes 4,500 Kg of air. The temperature at the core of the blast furnace reaches nearly 1,600 degrees C (about 3,000 degrees F).

The pig iron is then transferred to the basic oxygen furnace to make steel.

1,350 Kg of CO2 is emitted per 1,000 Kg pig iron produced.

A further 1,460 Kg CO2 is emitted per 1,000 Kg of Steel produced so all up 2,810 Kg CO2 is emitted.
45 tons of rebar (steel) are required so that equals 126.45 tons of CO2 are emitted.
To create a 1,000 Kg of Portland cement, calcium carbonate (60%), silicon (20%), aluminium (10%), iron (10%) and very small amounts of other ingredients are heated in a large kiln to over 1,500 degrees C to convert the raw materials into clinker. The clinker is then interground with other ingredients to produce the final cement product. When cement is mixed with water, sand and gravel forms the rock-like mass know as concrete.

An average of 927 Kg of CO2 is emitted per 1,000 Kg of Portland cement. On average, concrete has 10% cement, with the balance being gravel (41%), sand (25%), water (18%) and air (6%). One cubic metre of concrete weighs approx. 2,400 Kg so approx. 240 Kg of CO2 is emitted for every cubic metre.

481m3 of concrete are required so that equals 115.4 tons of CO2 are emitted.

View attachment 68267

By what possible mechanism do you generate CO2 from something that is only powered by the wind, and has no internal source of energy? Or are you postulating that the wind blowing against your window generates CO2 too? This is fantastic. Revenge of the anti global warming group?

 

[Crick]

He is talking about the CO2 released in the manufacturing process.

 

[elektra]

Wind Turbines CO2 pollution, it is a theme of mine, and when I find new information that confirms this fact I like to share it. CO2, Wind Turbine manufacture (as well as Solar Panel manufacture) is now the largest new source of CO2 in the atmosphere. It is a figure that is never discussed and completely absent from all the Green Renewable energy websites.

This article looks like it is only addressing the rebar and concrete, neglecting the production of fiberglass and the other exotic materials

How Much CO2 Gets Emitted to Build a Wind Turbine?

Its carbon footprint is massive – try 241.85 tons of CO2.

Here’s the breakdown of the CO2 numbers.

To create a 1,000 Kg of pig iron, you start with 1,800 Kg of iron ore, 900 Kg of coking coal 450 Kg of limestone. The blast furnace consumes 4,500 Kg of air. The temperature at the core of the blast furnace reaches nearly 1,600 degrees C (about 3,000 degrees F).

The pig iron is then transferred to the basic oxygen furnace to make steel.

1,350 Kg of CO2 is emitted per 1,000 Kg pig iron produced.

A further 1,460 Kg CO2 is emitted per 1,000 Kg of Steel produced so all up 2,810 Kg CO2 is emitted.
45 tons of rebar (steel) are required so that equals 126.45 tons of CO2 are emitted.
To create a 1,000 Kg of Portland cement, calcium carbonate (60%), silicon (20%), aluminium (10%), iron (10%) and very small amounts of other ingredients are heated in a large kiln to over 1,500 degrees C to convert the raw materials into clinker. The clinker is then interground with other ingredients to produce the final cement product. When cement is mixed with water, sand and gravel forms the rock-like mass know as concrete.

An average of 927 Kg of CO2 is emitted per 1,000 Kg of Portland cement. On average, concrete has 10% cement, with the balance being gravel (41%), sand (25%), water (18%) and air (6%). One cubic metre of concrete weighs approx. 2,400 Kg so approx. 240 Kg of CO2 is emitted for every cubic metre.

481m3 of concrete are required so that equals 115.4 tons of CO2 are emitted.

View attachment 68267

By what possible mechanism do you generate CO2 from something that is only powered by the wind, and has no internal source of energy? Or are you postulating that the wind blowing against your window generates CO2 too? This is fantastic. Revenge of the anti global warming group?

You cant read very well, can you?

Look again, the endless manufacture of wind turbines is a new, heavy industry.

Further these 1000 ton monsters need a constant source of power to keep the radio running, the red caution lights, the pitch and yaw controls, they even need to be turned when there is no wind. Add then there is the oil lubricating system that is kept pressurized. Some say the electricity that powers wind turbines is as luttle as 13% upwards of 52%.

But yea, if you just look at them and dont think about the manufacturing of them you might not consider the a 1400 ton Wind Turbine is not a polluter.

Did you see the thread about the massive oil leaks these things suffer.

And lets not forget these 1400 ton mosters drink hundreds of gallons of oil a year.

 

[Crick]

While saving millions of gallons from being burned.

 

[elektra]

While saving millions of gallons from being burned.

????? We do not burn oil for electricity, we do not burn gasoline or diesel for electricity. Wind Turbines do not replace hydrocarbons, Wind Turbines use hydrocarbons, at that they increase the use of Hydrocarbons.

Wind Turbines need 100's of gallons of lubricants and hydraulic fluid every year. Every day we are installing dozens of Wind Turbines, this process never stops, forever we must build and install Wind Turbines. It never ends, because they are a huge waste of money that produce almost nothing in electricity.

After 30 years of installing Wind Turbines in California, we now import more electricity from coal fired power plants in Wyoming.

 

[Crick]

Do you not understand the difference between hundreds of gallons (which is not being burned) and MILLIONS of gallons, which is?

Give it the fuck up.

 

[elektra]

Do you not understand the difference between hundreds of gallons (which is not being burned) and MILLIONS of gallons, which is?

Give it the fuck up.

We burn more hydrocarbons today then we did yesterday, or last year, so your idea that we are burning less of something is crazy talk.

Further, we do not burn Oil to produce electricity. So you do not save a thing by building and manufacturing Wind Turbines everyday, forever. It is like you think using 20 cars that run on the sun to go to the supermarket saves the planet, using hundreds of thousands of Wind Turbines to do the work of one conventional power plant ignores the elephant in the room, hundred of thousands of Wind Turbines.

 

[Crick]

Your logic is stunning.

Jesus, what a fucking idiot.

 

[Old Rocks]

Do you not understand the difference between hundreds of gallons (which is not being burned) and MILLIONS of gallons, which is?

Give it the fuck up.

We burn more hydrocarbons today then we did yesterday, or last year, so your idea that we are burning less of something is crazy talk.

Further, we do not burn Oil to produce electricity. So you do not save a thing by building and manufacturing Wind Turbines everyday, forever. It is like you think using 20 cars that run on the sun to go to the supermarket saves the planet, using hundreds of thousands of Wind Turbines to do the work of one conventional power plant ignores the elephant in the room, hundred of thousands of Wind Turbines.

Short-Term Energy Outlook - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Coal Supply
EIA estimates that U.S. coal production for February 2016 was 54 million short tons (MMst), a 4 MMst (7%) decrease from the previous month and 18 MMst less than in February 2015. Forecast coal production is expected to decrease by 111 MMst (12%) in 2016, which would be the largest annual percentage decline since 1958. In 2016, forecast Appalachian and Western region production declines by 9% and 17%, respectively, and Interior region production falls by 4%. Total coal production is expected to stabilize in 2017, increasing by 16 MMst (2%).

Interior region production, which accounted for 13% of coal production 10 years ago, is projected to account for 21% of production in 2016 and 2017. This increase in share reflects the region's growing competitive advantages compared with other U.S. coal-producing regions despite its higher sulfur content. These advantages include Interior coal's higher heat content, closer proximity to major markets than Western region coal, the prevalence of sulfur dioxide scrubbers at coal-fired electric generating units to comply with the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) Mercury and Air Toxics Standards (MATS), and lower mining costs than Appalachia-produced coal.

Electric power sector coal stockpiles were 197 MMst in December, a 4% increase from November. This atypical increase in winter coal stockpiles can be attributed to the December decrease in daily coal consumption because of record warm temperatures and lower coal use for electricity generation. December coal inventories averaged 158 MMst during the previous 10 years (2005-14).

Coal production declining, and the use of coal for generation of electricity declining. All good.

 

[elektra]

Coal production declining, and the use of coal for generation of electricity declining. All good.

Sure, if you are rich and can afford higher costs.

Electricity prices are on the rise and don't look to stop surging

In fact, many of these cost changes may be permanent, according to the Los Angeles Times. Varying factors include gas pipeline constraints, reductions in nuclear and coal power and an increase in renewable energy to the grid.

 

[Crick]

There's no such thing as a free lunch. Perhaps we should have started working on this problem back in the Kyoto Protocol days. We would have saved a few trillion.

 

[elektra]

There's no such thing as a free lunch. Perhaps we should have started working on this problem back in the Kyoto Protocol days. We would have saved a few trillion.

There is no such thing as a free lunch? Renewable Energy is a free lunch, it is 100% subsidized and created by government, from free land to tax credits that get sold to other corporations at a profit.

Renewable Energy is all about getting a free lunch.

 

[Crick]

The land is not free and the subsidies are not 100%. Your oil industry, however, received $13 billion last year. And it got that while making billions in profit. Why?

 

[elektra]

The land is not free and the subsidies are not 100%. Your oil industry, however, received $13 billion last year. And it got that while making billions in profit. Why?

You can not build Wind Turbines without oil, it is the Wind Turbines increased consumption of Oil that is a real problem.

 

[Crick]

Really? How much oil do you think a 1.8 MW wind turbine consumes being made and in one year of operation?

I have to ask you a question. What do you do - just generally speaking - for a living? I was a submarine sonar tech in the navy and have a degree in Ocean Engineering. I worked in the North Sea oil fields for less than a year before moving to a job in a much warmer climate testing naval sensor systems. I've done that ever since. I have some familiarity with equipment in a marine environment. On what personal expertise do you rest these claims of oil consumption in the production and operation of wind turbines? If it simply comes from external sources, that is fine, as long as you identify them and they are generally reliable sources.

 

[elektra]

Really? How much oil do you think a 1.8 MW wind turbine consumes being made and in one year of operation?

I have to ask you a question. What do you do - just generally speaking - for a living? I was a submarine sonar tech in the navy and have a degree in Ocean Engineering. I worked in the North Sea oil fields for less than a year before moving to a job in a much warmer climate testing naval sensor systems. I've done that ever since. I have some familiarity with equipment in a marine environment. On what personal expertise do you rest these claims of oil consumption in the production and operation of wind turbines? If it simply comes from external sources, that is fine, as long as you identify them and they are generally reliable sources.

I have to qualify myself to you Crick? Well if our qualifications as far as a career goes, I win.

I am an Electrical Power Research Institute analyst working for Curtiss-Wright. I guess one would say I am directly involved in provided electricity to the nation. I keep nuclear power plants running safe.

On a side note, Squids are a lower form of Marine life.

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Oil consumption in the operation of a Wind Turbine you question? It is called lubrication and hydraulics!

Oil consumption in the manufacture of Wind Turbines, boy that is a hard one, I would have to take a guess and say we get chemicals from oil that are needed for fiberglass used in the blades, propene is a start. I thinks if you actually looked into the exact manufacturing process you might be very surprised and how Oil, Natural Gas, and Coal are indispensable in the manufacture of Wind Turbines.