Will US conscription be the answer to WAR ON TERROR?

[Psychoblues]

I doubt it. It didn't work in Korea. It didn't work in Viet Nam either. The voluntary forces in Grenada, Panama and Persian Gulf I seemed to work better. Is the "Draft" a credible solution to the continuing shortfalls and recrruiting problems that now exist in the US led "WAR ON TERROR?"

Psychoblues

 

[Gunny]

I doubt it. It didn't work in Korea. It didn't work in Viet Nam either. The voluntary forces in Grenada, Panama and Persian Gulf I seemed to work better. Is the "Draft" a credible solution to the continuing shortfalls and recrruiting problems that now exist in the US led "WAR ON TERROR?"

Psychoblues

The draft worked just fine in every war the US has engaged in from its inception to its demise. A handful of pussies hiding in their closets or trying to hide out in other countries does not constitute failure.

It probably would not work now though since you left-wingnuts have convinced your herd of mindless sheep their personal comfort outweighs the needs of this Nation.

While they refuse to fight in a war for this Nation, they'd think nothing of using violence against the representatives of this Nation's authorities.

 

[Bullypulpit]

The draft worked just fine in every war the US has engaged in from its inception to its demise. A handful of pussies hiding in their closets or trying to hide out in other countries does not constitute failure.

It probably would not work now though since you left-wingnuts have convinced your herd of mindless sheep their personal comfort outweighs the needs of this Nation.

While they refuse to fight in a war for this Nation, they'd think nothing of using violence against the representatives of this Nation's authorities.

Personally, I never would've trusted a draftee to cover my back. He wouldn't really know or care about what he was fighting for.

I and my family have served honorably in the military for some four generations with some still serving... None drafted...All volunteered.

 

[trobinett]

Get serious, those that support this country, WILL.

Those that don't, WON'T.

The line forms on the left...................

 

[Avatar4321]

Personally, I never would've trusted a draftee to cover my back. He wouldn't really know or care about what he was fighting for.

I and my family have served honorably in the military for some four generations with some still serving... None drafted...All volunteered.

Im not sure I agree with that. He knows what he is fighting for: Survival. And thats best done with all the friends you make in the service.

If it came down to a draft id probably volunteer first.

 

[Gunny]

Personally, I never would've trusted a draftee to cover my back. He wouldn't really know or care about what he was fighting for.

I and my family have served honorably in the military for some four generations with some still serving... None drafted...All volunteered.

Given a choice, I would prefer an all-volunteer force. Obviously it is going to be a more cohesive unit, and I agree that trust is a factor in that.

I think whether or not a draft was a success would be determined by the reasons behind the war. For instance, during WWII, the overwhelming majority served without question.

The more voices proclaiming a war to be unjust, the more dissent, and the more likely opposition to the draft will manifest itself, such as it did in NYC and Philadelphia during the US Civil War.

 

[Annie]

Given a choice, I would prefer an all-volunteer force. Obviously it is going to be a more cohesive unit, and I agree that trust is a factor in that.

I think whether or not a draft was a success would be determined by the reasons behind the war. For instance, during WWII, the overwhelming majority served without question.

The more voices proclaiming a war to be unjust, the more dissent, and the more likely opposition to the draft will manifest itself, such as it did in NYC and Philadelphia during the US Civil War.

I agree. If Iran manages to actually widen the war to a degree that conscription becomes the only option, I have no doubt that they will serve honorably.

Contrary to Psychos post, (I know, it had to happen sometime ) the draftees did just fine in Vietnam and Korea, it was the politicians that let them down, not them.

Conscription worked in the War of 1812; Civil War, both sides; In WWI and WWII; Korea; Vietnam. I think that the quality of the volunteer military cannot be matched by forced conscripts, but when necessary, quantity would compensate for the high quality. Sad but true.

 

[Gunny]

I agree. If Iran manages to actually widen the war to a degree that conscription becomes the only option, I have no doubt that they will serve honorably.

Contrary to Psychos post, (I know, it had to happen sometime ) the draftees did just fine in Vietnam and Korea, it was the politicians that let them down, not them.

Conscription worked in the War of 1812; Civil War, both sides; In WWI and WWII; Korea; Vietnam. I think that the quality of the volunteer military cannot be matched by forced conscripts, but when necessary, quantity would compensate for the high quality. Sad but true.

Prior to Vietnam, with honorable mention given to the usual 10%, whether one did or did not have a higher duty to serve the Nation was not much of a question in the minds of the many. Most understood that freedom has a price tag.

I'm not sure that is the case nowadays. The extremist lefties have put the notion in the minds of many that freedom IS free, and that it is perfecly okay to used violence against one's own Nation in support of that idea. They scoff at the notion that one should actually try and give back to the society rather than just take.

AND, IMO, THOSE are the people who should be in the very FIRST wave!

 

[Annie]

Prior to Vietnam, with honorable mention given to the usual 10%, whether one did or did not have a higher duty to serve the Nation was not much of a question in the minds of the many. Most understood that freedom has a price tag.

I'm not sure that is the case nowadays. The extremist lefties have put the notion in the minds of many that freedom IS free, and that it is perfecly okay to used violence against one's own Nation in support of that idea. They scoff at the notion that one should actually try and give back to the society rather than just take.

AND, IMO, THOSE are the people who should be in the very FIRST wave!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GunnyL again.

I hope you are wrong, but fear you are right.

 

[Gunny]

I hope you are wrong, but fear you are right.

I think the extreme left has proven itself time and again since the late 60s to be very capable of such. IMO, there is something WAY wrong in the heads of people who in the name of an unwillingness to commit violence against our enemies are more than willing to commit violence to prove that point. It's just about as hypocritical as it gets.

Not to mention dumber'n a box of rocks. I always like to use the incident at Kent State as an example. Those are are soldiers armed with rifles you are throwing rocks and bottles at. H-E-L-L-O !!!!

Gee, wonder why someone got shot.

Prior to the late 60s, our society did not much tolerate such behavior, and usually policed itself.

 

[Annie]

I think the extreme left has proven itself time and again since the late 60s to be very capable of such. IMO, there is something WAY wrong in the heads of people who in the name of an unwillingness to commit violence against our enemies are more than willing to commit violence to prove that point. It's just about as hypocritical as it gets.

Not to mention dumber'n a box of rocks. I always like to use the incident at Kent State as an example. Those are are soldiers armed with rifles you are throwing rocks and bottles at. H-E-L-L-O !!!!

Gee, wonder why someone got shot.

Prior to the late 60s, our society did not much tolerate such behavior, and usually policed itself.

This could be, I come at it from the perspective of the kids I know, my own two sons, their friends, and the kids I've taught-some now in high school and college. Several have gone to US Military Academies and a couple to schools like VMI. Of course, some of my sons' friends are now serving, after graduation from West Point and the Air Force Academy.

My daughter has been dating a guy, currently in Iraq. He's in the Air Force Reserve, went over in April and due back at the end of August. I don't know how that all works, but he goes over in the summer, university the rest of the time. I believe upon graduation he still has a committment?

All of them have registered for draft, some have thought of enlisting, but not that many have. When they speak of a 'draft' which doesn't come up all that often, the conversations always get to, "If we have to go, we'll go. Might not like it, but we'd go."

None of them think women should be drafted, yet all 'expect' their wives will be competetive and work after having kids, cause they want to 'have a life.' (umm, that's the boys, they figure life=money, which would be too little if the wife wasn't working). So their 'opposition to female draft' I don't think is 'chavaunistic' in basis. Of course, none of them are planning weddings yet, much less kids.

 

[Psychoblues]

Once again you expose yourself as the idiot that you actually are, gunny.

I, quite voluntarilly, and being one of the "extreme left" as you propose, engaged in combat operations in Grenada, Panama and the Desert Storm operation. I got old quite young otherwise I would still be volunteering. I also "voluntarilly" participated in the Viet Nam thing, but you don't know anything about that, do you?

Dumber than a box of rocks? You were the perfect soldier.


Psychoblues

I think the extreme left has proven itself time and again since the late 60s to be very capable of such. IMO, there is something WAY wrong in the heads of people who in the name of an unwillingness to commit violence against our enemies are more than willing to commit violence to prove that point. It's just about as hypocritical as it gets.

Not to mention dumber'n a box of rocks. I always like to use the incident at Kent State as an example. Those are are soldiers armed with rifles you are throwing rocks and bottles at. H-E-L-L-O !!!!

Gee, wonder why someone got shot.

Prior to the late 60s, our society did not much tolerate such behavior, and usually policed itself.

 

[Otter_Creek]

Both our kids had 2 years pre paid college, but both have decided to go into the service after high school, even after we talked to them about the benefit of going in as an officer.
Our son has been in the Marines over a year and is very happy with his choice.
Our daughter goes in after she graduates HS this coming year. She had to go twice to MEPS before she could contract, and why??? There were too many recuits to process during the two days she was there.

The "Volunteer Problem" is a liberal myth, there's plenty of fine young Americans still willing to serve thier country and fight for freedom worldwide.

 

[Psychoblues]

God bless you and your children.


Psychoblues

Both our kids had 2 years pre paid college, but both have decided to go into the service after high school, even after we talked to them about the benefit of going in as an officer.
Our son has been in the Marines over a year and is very happy with his choice.
Our daughter goes in after she graduates HS this coming year. She had to go twice to MEPS before she could contract, and why??? There were too many recuits to process during the two days she was there.

The "Volunteer Problem" is a liberal myth, there's plenty of fine young Americans still willing to serve thier country and fight for freedom worldwide.

 

[Redhots]

Rule #1 of Military-industrial complex, no drafts.

A draft for the current situation in Iraq would effectivly end the whole thing right then and there.

Its all fine and well when its just the poor or volunteers dying in a war, but when conscripted middle class kids start coming home in body bags more and more people start to demand a damn good reason for the cost.

This administration doesn't have one, just like others didn't have one for Vietnam 30 some years ago.

Infact just about every president after Eisenhower has lied this country into some bullshit war or conflict that was tolorated for the most part since they didn't make the mistake of enacting a draft.

 

[CSM]

Once again you expose yourself as the idiot that you actually are, gunny.

I, quite voluntarilly, and being one of the "extreme left" as you propose, engaged in combat operations in Grenada, Panama and the Desert Storm operation. Fighting for the other side doesn't count, neither do the imaginary battles in your mind. I got old quite young otherwise I would still be volunteering. I suspect the only thing you should be volunteering for is electro-shock therapy. I also "voluntarilly" participated in the Viet Nam thing, but you don't know anything about that, do you? I don't know if Gunny knows anything about the "Viet Nam thing" (I have a sneaking suspicion he does) but I sure as hell do....which leads to my eteernal question for you....SO WHAT? You say you served in VietNam (and almost every conflict since the Civil War).....SO WHAT?
Dumber than a box of rocks? You were the perfect soldier. And you obviously were not....
Psychoblues

I doubt serioulsy you are any kind of vet at all.

 

[CSM]

Rule #1 of Military-industrial complex, no drafts.

Where is the list of rules? Got a link? I would like to read them.
A draft for the current situation in Iraq would effectivly end the whole thing right then and there.
The draft did not end ANY conflict in which it was used.

Its all fine and well when its just the poor or volunteers dying in a war, but when conscripted middle class kids start coming home in body bags more and more people start to demand a damn good reason for the cost.

I don't know about the volunteers, but there are not as many "poor" in todays military as some want us to believe. In fact, if you look at the recruiting statistics, most of those recruited are from the middle class or higher. I tend to agree that conscription does foster more scrutiny.

This administration doesn't have one, just like others didn't have one for Vietnam 30 some years ago.

They have one...you just dont like it. Since you dont like it, you dont even bother to try to understand it.

Infact just about every president after Eisenhower has lied this country into some bullshit war or conflict that was tolorated for the most part since they didn't make the mistake of enacting a draft. Again, I am not sure the draft had anything to do with it per say.

The draft is not the sole factor in determining the popularity/tolerance/acceptance of a conflict. The media has a FAR greater impact as does the underlying causes of the conflict.

 

[CSM]

Personally, I never would've trusted a draftee to cover my back. He wouldn't really know or care about what he was fighting for.

I and my family have served honorably in the military for some four generations with some still serving... None drafted...All volunteered.

I have fought with draftees by my side and, yes, had draftees covering my back at times....they did just fine. However, I think the current all volunteer force is far more professional and does a better job overall than a draftee force.

 

[Avatar4321]

Rule #1 of Military-industrial complex, no drafts.

A draft for the current situation in Iraq would effectivly end the whole thing right then and there.

Its all fine and well when its just the poor or volunteers dying in a war, but when conscripted middle class kids start coming home in body bags more and more people start to demand a damn good reason for the cost.

This administration doesn't have one, just like others didn't have one for Vietnam 30 some years ago.

Infact just about every president after Eisenhower has lied this country into some bullshit war or conflict that was tolorated for the most part since they didn't make the mistake of enacting a draft.

Yeah stopping terrorism, genocide, and torture, as well preventing them from obtaining weapons of mass destruction is not a good reason.

Rather we should just wait for them to kill us.

 

[Gunny]

Once again you expose yourself as the idiot that you actually are, gunny.

I, quite voluntarilly, and being one of the "extreme left" as you propose, engaged in combat operations in Grenada, Panama and the Desert Storm operation. I got old quite young otherwise I would still be volunteering. I also "voluntarilly" participated in the Viet Nam thing, but you don't know anything about that, do you?

Dumber than a box of rocks? You were the perfect soldier.


Psychoblues

I'm sitting here looking at the response to the post you quoted and I can't help notice the obvious irrelevancy, culminated by a personal attack, in your statement.

First and foremost, I was NEVER a soldier. I AM a US Marine, and you're damned-straight I was a damned-good one on active duty. And I'll STILL run YOUR dick in the dirt any day.

As a matter of fact, I was as good a Marine as YOU are a fucktard.

Second, would you PLEASE make up your f-ing mind? Once you served on active duty -- then you served in "all the branches," -- then you didn't serve in any specific military branch, just worked with all three; which, brings us back to square one and you claiming to have combat experience.

You'll just have to excuse the Hell out of me for thinking you are nothing more than a liar and a fraud, attempting to pass yoursefl off as a vet because in your very simple mind you believe that justifies your rants.

What I know about Vietnam is the US military did not lose that war. The loony left, of which you are one, forced our Government to abandon an ally by coming pretty close to causing another civil war here at home. There was no instant gratification for the "easy road" lefties, so the lies and propaganda and violent protests against violence began. Y'all managed to snatch defeat from victory simply because you were too pussy to finish what you started.

This thread is a perfect example. Has any government official put for ANY legislation at the National level requesting reinstatement, or even investigating reinstatement of mandatory conscription?

No. The only people even bringing it up are extremist left-wingnuts, throwing shit against the wall to see if it'll stick.

IF or WHEN our government decides to revisit the pro's -n- con's of the draft, I will THEN be concerned. Until then, you're just another loony lefty alarmist trying to start shit without a clue.