Wikileak'd video shows eager-to-kill troops firing on Reuters reporters and children

[CurveLight]

Did you see the post where CL, with his advanced knowledge of helicopter armament, stated they pilots should have fired "warning shots" with an area-kill weapon (Apache main gun)?

If you are going to Monday morning quarterback the event, at least call legit plays.

Keep proving your ignorance......or do something totally different and learn about the eyepiece sight system for the 30mm.

Http://www.warfare.ru/?linkid=2032&catid=260

From your link:

Armament: M230 33mm gun

Retard.

If your going to post a link to try and prove your assertion, don't post a link with such a glaring factual error.

Lol...not sure what's funnier....that you would ignore the type of sight system or that you try to behind a typo by that website. Here's a different link *****.

Http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/ah64_apache.html

 

[CrimsonWhite]

So were ground crew and you have been in these types of situations? You want to fire warning shots with a 30MM cannon? And you call us stupid?

Clearly we don't know what the **** we are talking about.

I don't know about you, but I always used my 240Bs and MK-19s to fire warning shots

That's what I always used too.

 

[geauxtohell]

Hi there ....

interesting, what I see is a highly sophisticated debate about tactics, armor, doctrine etc. but nothing what really should interest us:
WTF are the Yanks doing there ? This is a gunship and by definition they are designed and equipped for a different purpose.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Apache was not constructed to mow down insurgents, but APCs and stuff like that.
So, you have an army in a suburban surrounding, trained and equipped for a battle on a battlefield against a trained army. Add to this frustration, anger, fear etc. and the outcome is foreseeable and can be watched on this video. Man, you are using very big sticks in a suburban area.
Are there only insurgents living in an area like this ? Where are the normal Iraquis ?
What would you think if a gunship would open fire in your neighbourhood ?

Do you think by stunts like that they will forever be thankful to be gotten rid of SAddam ?

Aain:
What it shows or what it not shows is not the point.
If you bring heavy weapons into the area, you have a result like that.

The Brits in Northern Ireland have been clever by not bringing heavy weapons into the "Troubles".
By that they saved civilian lifes and this is what counterinsurgency should be about.
If the civilians fear more to get killed by terrorists than by US troops, than you might have a chance to dry this out.
But videos like that and the following debate I see here leave me head-scratching if the Americans are out of their mind.

To put it frankly:
I have not understood what for you have started this war, for what reason you have lead it the way you did and what the final outcome will be.

But that´s perhaps only me...

kind regards
ze germanguy

The Apache is not limited in it's role. It can engage ground personal. The Army investigation found that using the chain gun was an appropriate proportional use of force.

No one is debating that it's tragic when innocent people are killed in war. It's also inevitable. That doesn't make this a criminal act or even a dereliction of duty. Hind site is not a reasonable standard to judge the actions on the ground.

Many of us, myself included, opposed and continue to oppose Iraq. That doesn't mean we have to demonize the soldiers who are in a tough situation and are doing the best that they can.

Ironically, no one would be bitching about this if these pilots had waited for someone to load an RPG and light up the ground element before they fired.

Of course, there would be a few families whose kids came home in metal boxes, but at least our collective sense of guilt wouldn't be troubled.

 

[geauxtohell]

So were ground crew and you have been in these types of situations? You want to fire warning shots with a 30MM cannon? And you call us stupid?

Clearly we don't know what the **** we are talking about.

I don't know about you, but I always used my 240Bs and MK-19s to fire warning shots

That's what I always used too.

"Let's just lob a few grenades over there to make sure they are bad guys".

 

[CurveLight]

LOL.


Pwned!!

​

Good grief you are fuxxing stoopid. I already pointed out what I said in post 116 about being on the ground. Or do you think you can only pop off warning rounds from the air? Do you think it's possible to pop off warning shots from the ground? Do you think that has ever happened? Since I already stated my experience was with similar situations on the ground I didn't think I needed to repeat it but obviously I'm dealing with bitches who don't know how to be honest.

So were ground crew and you have been in these types of situations? You want to fire warning shots with a 30MM cannon? And you call us stupid?

Yes you are stoopid and arrogant. You assume being part of the ground crew meant we simply sat in the rear. We had forward contact teams for emergency response to a downed chopper. Basically, you're an immature ***** that is saturated in hypocrisy.

 

[geauxtohell]

Lol...not sure what's funnier....that you would ignore the type of sight system or that you try to behind a typo by that website. Here's a different link *****.

Http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/ah64_apache.html

The magic sight system that you are all hung up over doesn't change the fact that it's an area kill weapon and your statement was completely ******* stupid.

 

[geauxtohell]

Yes you are stoopid and arrogant. You assume being part of the ground crew meant we simply sat in the rear. We had forward contact teams for emergency response to a downed chopper. Basically, you're an immature ***** that is saturated in hypocrisy.

How many downed choppers were there in the Gulf War?

How many of those were in urban areas against insurgent forces?

No one is buying your bullshit.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Good grief you are fuxxing stoopid. I already pointed out what I said in post 116 about being on the ground. Or do you think you can only pop off warning rounds from the air? Do you think it's possible to pop off warning shots from the ground? Do you think that has ever happened? Since I already stated my experience was with similar situations on the ground I didn't think I needed to repeat it but obviously I'm dealing with bitches who don't know how to be honest.

So were ground crew and you have been in these types of situations? You want to fire warning shots with a 30MM cannon? And you call us stupid?

Yes you are stoopid and arrogant. You assume being part of the ground crew meant we simply sat in the rear. We had forward contact teams for emergency response to a downed chopper. Basically, you're an immature ***** that is saturated in hypocrisy.

How many downed choppers did you deploy to?

 

[geauxtohell]

How many downed choppers did you deploy to?

Time to play "grasping for straws".

 

[RadiomanATL]

Keep proving your ignorance......or do something totally different and learn about the eyepiece sight system for the 30mm.

Http://www.warfare.ru/?linkid=2032&catid=260

From your link:

Armament: M230 33mm gun

Retard.

If your going to post a link to try and prove your assertion, don't post a link with such a glaring factual error.

Lol...not sure what's funnier....that you would ignore the type of sight system or that you try to behind a typo by that website. Here's a different link *****.

Http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/ah64_apache.html

Hey retard, nothing in your links even hints that the m230 can be used in a way in which you describe.

Keep backpedaling

 

[RadiomanATL]

So were ground crew and you have been in these types of situations? You want to fire warning shots with a 30MM cannon? And you call us stupid?

Yes you are stoopid and arrogant. You assume being part of the ground crew meant we simply sat in the rear. We had forward contact teams for emergency response to a downed chopper. Basically, you're an immature ***** that is saturated in hypocrisy.

How many downed choppers did you deploy to?

Only one:

 

[geauxtohell]

The people that want to Monday morning quarterback this event have to come up with "creative scenarios", because short of that they have to admit that they can only pragmatically advocate for two scenarios:

1.) That pilots have some sort of magical sense about them that allows them to automatically delineate who is good and bad in a combat zone (obviously not pragmatic).

2.) The pilots should have waited until the guys on the ground got shot before engaging them.

Realistically the only outcome is #2. In which case, I am glad that none of you were ever in a position of responsibility when I was on the ground.

 

[CurveLight]

Keep proving your ignorance......or do something totally different and learn about the eyepiece sight system for the 30mm.

Http://www.warfare.ru/?linkid=2032&catid=260

It has nothing to do with the sighting system. I've already explained this to you. You can keep trying to back-peddle if you want, you're statement is further evidence that, despite your time in uniform, you don't really have a clear idea of what happened here and why.

Of course, it he helicopter pilots did what you wanted them to do and fired warning shots and a child was inadvertently hurt because you can't predict with 100% accuracy where the shell is going to land and what the fragments are going to do, you'd be bitching about that too.

At over 10 rounds per second, it's impossible for the Apache to be accurate and fire a round over someone's head like Curvie wants them to do.

I never said fire over their heads and wouldn't suggest that with a chopper gun. You love putting words in others' mouths eh?

 

[CurveLight]

From your link:
Retard.

If your going to post a link to try and prove your assertion, don't post a link with such a glaring factual error.

Lol...not sure what's funnier....that you would ignore the type of sight system or that you try to behind a typo by that website. Here's a different link *****.

Http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/ah64_apache.html

Hey retard, nothing in your links even hints that the m230 can be used in a way in which you describe.

Keep backpedaling

My bad. Forgot I'm dealing with kids who need their hands held.

"As the pilots waited for clearance, an overweight male emerged from a building, making hand signals in the direction of the British troops.

Widow 79 gave the clearance to attack. The Apaches prepared to fire warning shots. From the underside of Ugly Five Zero, the 30mm cannon barked, and its spent shell casings rained down below. There was a couple of seconds ’ delay, and then the rounds tore into the hard-beaten surface of the dirt track in front of the compound. The figures inside didn’t seem to so much as flinch.
A second warning burst was fired, this time much closer."
Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1044410/Britains-4-billion-Killing-Machine.html

 

[☭proletarian☭]

No, follow along. How does a Crew Chief get into a situation like the one in the video. Quit deflecting and answer the ******* question.

And yes I saw the full video. You posted it. The infantry reported an RPG.

Thats not the full video either. The full video goes on for over an hour. But the parts that didn't portray our soldiers as bloodthirsty goons were cut.

The video could be six hours long have footage of US soldiers doing charity work before this incident and it wouldn't matter these fuckers.

Charity work six hours earlier would have nothing to do with the events in question. So no, it doesn't matter anymore than what they did the week before. Unless you're saying that six hours before, they encountered these individuals or some other event occured that's actually relevant, you can stop running your mouth.


Again, I don't care about the first time shots were fired. Right or wrong, they appear to have believed the men posed a threat to ground troops.


Now back to the van...

 

[☭proletarian☭]

has anyone said what transpired to make the van seem like a threat?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

That is because he provided a link proving that 30 minutes was missing from the 39 minute video that you posted.

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, is he?

Hmmmmm.....

"The Defense Department can't locate its copy of the video of a July 2007 air strike that killed two Reuters employees in Iraq, a military official told The Associated Press."
Http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/military-cant-find-its-video-showing-newsmens-deaths/19429850


I looked for an update and couldn't find any so is the DOD still claiming they can't find the video?

I don't doubt that they lack an extensive and organized library of all footage ever shot in case something pops up a few years later or something.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Oh yeah, the Apache only fires explosive founds. Either DU or HE.

DU's considered an explosive armament? I thought it fell under armor-piercing?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Keep proving your ignorance......or do something totally different and learn about the eyepiece sight system for the 30mm.

Http://www.warfare.ru/?linkid=2032&catid=260

It has nothing to do with the sighting system. I've already explained this to you. You can keep trying to back-peddle if you want, you're statement is further evidence that, despite your time in uniform, you don't really have a clear idea of what happened here and why.

Of course, it he helicopter pilots did what you wanted them to do and fired warning shots and a child was inadvertently hurt because you can't predict with 100% accuracy where the shell is going to land and what the fragments are going to do, you'd be bitching about that too.

At over 10 rounds per second, it's impossible for the Apache to be accurate and fire a round over someone's head like Curvie wants them to do.

So it's pretty much a Vulcan gun? Couple thousand huge-ass rounds before you hear the gun on the ground?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

At over 10 rounds per second, it's impossible for the Apache to be accurate and fire a round over someone's head like Curvie wants them to do.

Yeah, that's what I mean about "area kill" weapon. I didn't make the term up. It's a doctrine thing. As you saw, when the helicopter fired, it pretty much bracketed the ground. The pilots know approximately where the rounds were going to land, but he didn't know exactly where.

To compound the matter, as you saw, the rounds Apaches fire explode on contact.

I couldn't think of a worse weapon to fire "warning shots" with.

A Davey Crocket?