Why you hate unions?

[Meister]

You shouldn't have mentioned Solyndra....there was big time conflict of interests going on with it regarding our tax dollars funding this debacle. Not to mention it was poorly run and had red flags flying everywhere with the inevitable looming bankruptcy. It was a poor choice, but they needed to payback.

Who funded Solndra? Well, it started under President Bush and was continued under Obama. Conflicts of interest? I'm sure there was.

I'm more concerned about the amounts than the COI's myself.

Still aside from the politics of it, the fact is that most start-ups fail whether it is a coffee shop, a grocery store or an energy company. Energy companies are going to have a larger wake of failure than the others.

I think we can all agree (getting back to the politics)that Solyndra would have failed with or without our investment.

No one died as a result of Solyndra's failure; how many GI's died while taking a shower in Iraq? See the connection between Haliburton (KBR) and the Bush Administration.

You're letting your frisco mentality get the best of any sense you may have wry.
Just an observation.....

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

You shouldn't have mentioned Solyndra....there was big time conflict of interests going on with it regarding our tax dollars funding this debacle. Not to mention it was poorly run and had red flags flying everywhere with the inevitable looming bankruptcy. It was a poor choice, but they needed to payback.

Who funded Solndra? Well, it started under President Bush and was continued under Obama. Conflicts of interest? I'm sure there was.

I'm more concerned about the amounts than the COI's myself.

Still aside from the politics of it, the fact is that most start-ups fail whether it is a coffee shop, a grocery store or an energy company. Energy companies are going to have a larger wake of failure than the others.

I think we can all agree (getting back to the politics)that Solyndra would have failed with or without our investment.

No one died as a result of Solyndra's failure; how many GI's died while taking a shower in Iraq? See the connection between Haliburton (KBR) and the Bush Administration.

and any credibility you had in this thread was just destroyed....glad i read on before addressing your other posts

 

[Mr Natural]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Union were needed once. Now there are laws and regulations to protect workers. Also you have things like OSHA.
If unions were needed to protect workers why is only 8% or so of the private workforce unionized?

If, as you say, only 8% of the workforce is unionized, then why all the hatred from the right?

 

[Bern80]

Why do people hate unions?

There is nothing wrong with the principle of the a union. The principle is a group of people that get together to negotiate better compensation than one can by themselves. You normally have a situation where a single person negotiates a wage with an employer. If the person deems that isn't enough than the employer can look elsewhere for someone who will. If said individual can unite enough people together such that the employer doesn't have any less expensive option, I say more power to 'em. That is of course assuming the business can afford to do business at the demanded wage........

Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to?

For skilled employees yes most of them will. I'm not union. My job pays right about the national avg. for my type of job. I have great health insurance. Standard two weeks paid vacation and sick days. Hoidays off. etc. The reality is unions 'help' only the least skilled of the labor force. For those that have skills that are in demand, being part of a union is inconsequential.

I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Then you are being willfully obtuse. There are all kinds of stories, one just this past week out of New York that I saw, of a businesses inability to fire bad employees because of unions. The teachers union is probably the worst of the bunch. They are the ones that negotiate the concept of tenure. When you hear the word tenure, all it really means is 'can't be fired'. The benefits of not being union to me are obvious. I don't have union dues come out of my pocket and two I alone get to dictate how much I'm worth instead of having to be lumped in with everyone thus dilluting the value of my skills.

 

[kaz]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Union were needed once. Now there are laws and regulations to protect workers. Also you have things like OSHA.
If unions were needed to protect workers why is only 8% or so of the private workforce unionized?

If, as you say, only 8% of the workforce is unionized, then why all the hatred from the right?

Because one employer who's blackmailed by the power of government guns to provide workers with by definition non-market power is one too many.

 

[Lovebears65]

I do not like unions because they use thug tactics to get what they want. All public sector unions should not be allowed. When you are being paid by tax dollars you should not be allowed to strike. If you dont like go find you another job.

 

[StevenC]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Union were needed once. Now there are laws and regulations to protect workers. Also you have things like OSHA.
If unions were needed to protect workers why is only 8% or so of the private workforce unionized?

If, as you say, only 8% of the workforce is unionized, then why all the hatred from the right?

Why did you ignore the point I was making?

 

[Lovebears65]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Union were needed once. Now there are laws and regulations to protect workers. Also you have things like OSHA.
If unions were needed to protect workers why is only 8% or so of the private workforce unionized?

If, as you say, only 8% of the workforce is unionized, then why all the hatred from the right?

For me its about the teachers who are teaching our children. When they have tenor they can not be fired no matter how much they suck.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Or is lassivez fair a foreign word which means only those who own the means of production should be free to exercise their rights...

This...is the lie of the left. Rights are determined by market power. Workers are free to join and bargain. The issue is about artificial power provided to unions by government guns. That artificial power is even worse when government negotiates with government unions and sends the bill to taxpayers who had no say.

I think exercising rights is the right to act freely and fail if you act wrong.

You think exercising rights is the right to have government guns shut down your employer if they don't give you what you want. You're wrong, that's not a right. That's a crime.

You might want to think through your arguments before posting. Rights are never determined by market power, if you believe so post some examples. The right of the people to peaceable assemble is a right, not a product of 'market influences'. The right of the people to protest peaceable are being curtailed by the efforts by some (Walker in WI, Daniels in IN) and has become a 'cause' of the New Right which has control of the Republican Party.

bte, if you're going to quote me, have the integrity to quote me in full. Lies of omission are still lies. I wrote: "Or is lassivez fair a foreign word which means only those who own the means of production should be free to exercise their rights under the principle of Freedom ane Liberty for some?

 

[Mr Natural]

Union were needed once. Now there are laws and regulations to protect workers. Also you have things like OSHA.
If unions were needed to protect workers why is only 8% or so of the private workforce unionized?

If, as you say, only 8% of the workforce is unionized, then why all the hatred from the right?

Because one employer who's blackmailed by the power of government guns to provide workers with by definition non-market power is one too many.

If that one employer is being as you say "blackmailed by the power of government guns" to accept an organized workforce, then he's a shitty employer and deserves to have a union forced down his throat.

 

[Bern80]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Union were needed once. Now there are laws and regulations to protect workers. Also you have things like OSHA.
If unions were needed to protect workers why is only 8% or so of the private workforce unionized?

If, as you say, only 8% of the workforce is unionized, then why all the hatred from the right?

I think it's more, but a lot of the hatred comes from the fact that many union workers work govrnment jobs, like teachers, or are contracted by the government like highway construction. Their pay comes out of everyone's pocket. If it's me, John Q. Taxpayer, essentially paying your salary, I would prefer you at least show me how you deserve more pay as opposed to a union dictating more really for no other reason than to justify their dues.

On top of that the irony of the whole thing is somewhat infuriating. Being honest, it's primarly dems and liberals that support unions. The same group of people that trust in government to solve their problems. One has to see the hypocrisy in a group of people that trusts and obligates government to make things better for people, while at the same time insisting the people must be protected from being treated unfairly as a government employee.

 

[kaz]

If, as you say, only 8% of the workforce is unionized, then why all the hatred from the right?

Because one employer who's blackmailed by the power of government guns to provide workers with by definition non-market power is one too many.

If that one employer is being as you say "blackmailed by the power of government guns" to accept an organized workforce, then he's a shitty employer and deserves to have a union forced down his throat.

So....employers should overpay workers, pay them on seniority not performance and make themselves jump through hurdles to fire even the most incompetent workers or government should force them to...gotcha....

 

[kwc57]

If, as you say, only 8% of the workforce is unionized, then why all the hatred from the right?

Because one employer who's blackmailed by the power of government guns to provide workers with by definition non-market power is one too many.

If that one employer is being as you say "blackmailed by the power of government guns" to accept an organized workforce, then he's a shitty employer and deserves to have a union forced down his throat.

OMG......do you have ANY idea how stoopid that sounds?

 

[Mr Natural]

It doesn't take a whole lot of effort on an employers part to keep unions out of his company.

It starts with a little respect of the workers.

 

[kaz]

It doesn't take a whole lot of effort on an employers part to keep unions out of his company.

It starts with a little respect of the workforce.

Actually it takes a workforce that take responsibility for their own careers. It also takes a government that doesn't saddle employers with their social welfare objectives. A free workforce is a good workers best safety net. Unions are not focused on helping good workers who do these things, they are focused on manipulating bad ones who don't to their own objective. Liberalism doesn't work, which is why it takes government guns to get anyone to do it.

 

[bripat9643]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Strange. I'm not in a union, and I get 3 weeks paid vacation, full medical and dental, 401K, bonus, life insurance and disability.

What is it unions are supposedly do for you?

 

[Mr Natural]

Union were needed once. Now there are laws and regulations to protect workers. Also you have things like OSHA.
If unions were needed to protect workers why is only 8% or so of the private workforce unionized?

If, as you say, only 8% of the workforce is unionized, then why all the hatred from the right?

For me its about the teachers who are teaching our children. When they have tenor they can not be fired no matter how much they suck.

Seems like you had either:

a. Shitty teachers.

or

b. You weren't paying attention in class.

 

[Bern80]

Because one employer who's blackmailed by the power of government guns to provide workers with by definition non-market power is one too many.

If that one employer is being as you say "blackmailed by the power of government guns" to accept an organized workforce, then he's a shitty employer and deserves to have a union forced down his throat.

OMG......do you have ANY idea how stoopid that sounds?

It comes from the ridiculous presumption that the employee is the only person who should have a say in their compensation and that whatever figure they come up with is the correct one.

 

[oreo]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

I don't hate private sector unions-(they have competition to keep them in check)-but I do not want Government public unions that hold the taxpayers of this nation hostage.

 

[Bern80]

If, as you say, only 8% of the workforce is unionized, then why all the hatred from the right?

For me its about the teachers who are teaching our children. When they have tenor they can not be fired no matter how much they suck.

Seems like you had either:

a. Shitty teachers.

or

b. You weren't paying attention in class.

Seems like you are just being disagreeable to be disagreeable. There are all kinds of stories out there of truly bad teachers; teachers that have been written up for being lewd or sexually harassing students. They simply can't be fired because they're tenured. So the schools have to waste money paying these crappy teaches to basically do nothing. That is a waste of public funding. That you can't see the correlation between the decline of our education system and where unions are forcing the money takes someone who is truly blind.